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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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8 hours ago, April said:

I guess the key here is Sheldon "correcting for observation bias" by assuming he only saw a small part of her actual suitors. Depending on how much he corrects the numbers up (which is simply guesswork on his part) the actual maths would probably work.

No it does not you cannot use a bell curve for dating data, bell curves are used for data which fits a normal distribution of data which depends on randomness. Dating is not random, it's discrete data based on a multitude of factors over time, but it is controlled.

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3 minutes ago, Zhalen565 said:

No it does not you cannot use a bell curve for dating data, bell curves are used for data which fits a normal distribution of data which depends on randomness. Dating is not random, it's discrete data based on a multitude of factors over time, but it is controlled.

I'm not saying Sheldon is using the best or correct method here. I'm just talking about what is said in the dialogue.

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7 minutes ago, Zhalen565 said:

No it does not you cannot use a bell curve for dating data, bell curves are used for data which fits a normal distribution of data which depends on randomness. Dating is not random, it's discrete data based on a multitude of factors over time, but it is controlled.

I have to agree with you on this one. Many curves can not be used for all kind of data and this one is unlikely due the randmness factor.

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3 minutes ago, April said:

I'm not saying Sheldon is using the best or correct method here. I'm just talking about what is said in the dialogue.

But that is what I'm saying(and this is also in the dialog). Correcting observational bias does you no good, if the equation your using is the wrong one.  Penny's dating history is not a bell curve, hence Sheldon can't use it to compute the number of men she dated.   Correcting observational bias would be adjusting the number he used, 17.  He doesn't do that, he simply plugs 17 into the equation.  If, he thought he hadn't seen or met all of them, he could make a correction upward to, say 30.  But, that upward adjustment doesn't fix the fact that he's using the wrong equation. 

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1 hour ago, No Regrets said:

I couldn't care less about how many sexual partners Penny has had. The only thing that has ever bothered me about it was that they made Penny the other woman, that they made her sleep with men who were involved with someone. It made her look like a hypocrite when she went on and on about what a bitch Alex was for hitting on Leonard.

I remember in 902, Penny said:" I mean I knew those guys weren't above cheating, because that's usually how we met." 

I don't know why the writers added this particular line, perhaps to soften the blow of Leonard's boat kiss? Or to get even? I don't know, but I think it was a very cheap shot to Penny.

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1 minute ago, snapepans said:

I remember in 902, Penny said:" I mean I knew those guys weren't above cheating, because that's usually how we met." 

I don't know why the writers added this particular line, perhaps to soften the blow of Leonard's boat kiss? Or to get even? I don't know, but I think it was a very cheap shot to Penny.

Didn't Penny admit to that once before?

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18 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Didn't Penny admit to that once before?

Sorry I can't remember other times, I just remembered 902, and I wasn't happy about this line back then.

Could you tell me which episode contains the same plot? I want to check it out. Thank you!

 

Edit: OK, I remembered there was a scientist who was married and Penny dated him back then......Never mind.

Edited by snapepans
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6 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Didn't Penny admit to that once before?

Penny said that her 'go to' move to get back at another girl was to have sex with their boyfriends. Perhaps that was just meant as humorous sarcasm. But, I don't think so.

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6 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Didn't Penny admit to that once before?

Yes, she was in bed with a guy when she told him that she was also sleeping with his brother. That was before s9 for sure.

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2 minutes ago, HeWolf said:

Penny said that her 'go to' move to get back at another girl was to have sex with their boyfriends. Perhaps that was just meant as humorous sarcasm. But, I don't think so.

 

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

Yes, she was in bed with a guy when she told him that she was also sleeping with his brother. That was before s9 for sure.

Yes, that's it. Thank you. Anyway, I'll never understand why they made Penny say these lines. There's just nothing funny about them.

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1 minute ago, No Regrets said:

 

Yes, that's it. Thank you. Anyway, I'll never understand why they made Penny say these lines. There's just nothing funny about them.

I find the brothers line kinda funny. As for Penny cheating, she was young and made some mistakes. I don't think it's the kind of thing that should mar her character permanently neither will I crucify her for it (not saying that you are).

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12 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But that is what I'm saying(and this is also in the dialog). Correcting observational bias does you no good, if the equation your using is the wrong one.  Penny's dating history is not a bell curve, hence Sheldon can't use it to compute the number of men she dated.   Correcting observational bias would be adjusting the number he used, 17.  He doesn't do that, he simply plugs 17 into the equation.  If, he thought he hadn't seen or met all of them, he could make a correction upward to, say 30.  But, that upward adjustment doesn't fix the fact that he's using the wrong equation. 

I'm not saying he's using the right equation and I'm not disagreeing with you on that.

I'm simply pointing out that from what I get from the dialogue Sheldon is not just plucking in the number 17 as you say but "correcting for observational bias" by multiplying that 17 with probably 8 or something, hence ending up with a super high number. I think the idea behind the dialogue was that outside of the years Penny was in a relationship she was dating more and more guys the older she got, hence Sheldon assuming she reached her dating peak at her then present age of 24 or so. All I'm saying is, if Dr. Salzberg drew a bell curve based on the numbers it probably would check out that way.

AGAIN: I'm not saying that this is accurate for Penny's dating history.

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38 minutes ago, April said:

I'm not saying he's using the right equation and I'm not disagreeing with you on that.

Well, that was my whole complaint, that the math would work.  It doesn't in this particular case.  

Quote

I'm simply pointing out that from what I get from the dialogue Sheldon is not just plucking in the number 17 as you say but "correcting for observational bias" by multiplying that 17 with probably 8 or something, hence ending up with a super high number.

But, if he's doing that, he's not using a bell curve, his underlying assumption.  

 

Quote

 I think the idea behind the dialogue was that outside of the years Penny was in a relationship she was dating more and more guys the older she got, hence Sheldon assuming she reached her dating peak at her then present age of 24 or so.

But, she didn't reach her peak there.  She was dating only Leonard and Zack for that last year, so her total number of men she dated, was two.  I suppose, she could have dated a different guy each night, over the summer to get to the number needed, but we've never seen her date that much, much less that many different men.   

 

Quote

All I'm saying is, if Dr. Salzberg drew a bell curve based on the numbers it probably would check out that way.

AGAIN: I'm not saying that this is accurate for Penny's dating history.

You can't just draw a bell curve.  Each bell curve depends on the mean, the standard deviation, whether you have a tail, and several other things.  In this case, there would be four years of one person, and another year of two.  And with the four years of one, in the middle of the graph, there is no way for Dr Salzberg to draw a bell curve.   The idea behind the dialog was that Sheldon flat out stated he was using a bell curve.  It's simply not possible, for Sheldon to calculate the number of people she dated and the number she slept.   I suppose he could pull a number out of thin air, but that's not using a bell curve, as he stated he did.      

 

 

 

 

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We might have seen Leonard with more partners on the actual show or a similar amount. But with the way Penny was depicted on the show from dialogue not only from other characters but from her as well my guess would be she has had way more. We only get a glimpse of their lives.

I know some people aren't happy with or have ever liked the character background they did with Penny. But that is what they chose and she clearly isn't like that now.

If anyone wants to see an end to those old gags now that she is married I am fully onboard with calling for that.

Edited by Tensor
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Posts hidden.  Please do not comment about other poster's motives for their opinions.  A couple were hidden due to quoting hidden posts.  

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22 minutes ago, Jonny said:

We might have seen Leonard with more partners on the actual show or a similar amount. But with the way Penny was depicted on the show from dialogue not only from other characters but from her as well my guess would be she has had way more. We only get a glimpse of their lives.

Which is why this can be so contentious.  How you interpret what is said, is different from what I or others interpret it.  But, in this case, were talking about whether a calculation is correct, and it's easy to show it's not correct.  

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 Those who have no interest in any particular discussion, are free to ignore a particular discussion, and allow those who want to discuss it, to discuss it.  

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10 minutes ago, SRAM said:

The thing that is unique in the show is we get to see Penny grow up and so I think it is more important in how the woman that is Penny now acts than the young partygirl she was before.  That woman has been  loyal to Leonard since she told him she loved him and she has never even expressed a desire towards anyone else.  It is a shame the writers had to soil Leonard by bringing Mandy into the picture.  I always saw Leonard and Penny as virgins in their own way because neither of them had experienced real love until they met each other.

I agree with you. I think I have more of a problem with the way she said it, like it was no big deal. Anyway, I still have to remind myself sometimes to not take comedy too seriously. I find that the more invested you are in a character, the harder it is. 

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16 minutes ago, SRAM said:

The thing that is unique in the show is we get to see Penny grow up and so I think it is more important in how the woman that is Penny now acts than the young partygirl she was before.  That woman has been  loyal to Leonard since she told him she loved him and she has never even expressed a desire towards anyone else.  It is a shame the writers had to soil Leonard by bringing Mandy into the picture.  I always saw Leonard and Penny as virgins in their own way because neither of them had experienced real love until they met each other.

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1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 Those who have no interest in any particular discussion, are free to ignore a particular discussion, and allow those who want to discuss it, to discuss it.  

We'd better not start on t-tests, f-tests, chi squared tests, etc. We may cause some heads to explode.

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43 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But, she didn't reach her peak there.  She was dating only Leonard and Zack for that last year, so her total number of men she dated, was two.  I suppose, she could have dated a different guy each night, over the summer to get to the number needed, but we've never seen her date that much, much less that many different men.   

Sorry, 23 then. I forgot for a sec that S3 was the one where she wasn't single. My apologies.

43 minutes ago, Tensor said:

You can't just draw a bell curve.  Each bell curve depends on the mean, the standard deviation, whether you have a tail, and several other things.  In this case, there would be four years of one person, and another year of two.  And with the four years of one, in the middle of the graph, there is no way for Dr Salzberg to draw a bell curve.   The idea behind the dialog was that Sheldon flat out stated he was using a bell curve.  It's simply not possible, for Sheldon to calculate the number of people she dated and the number she slept.   I suppose he could pull a number out of thin air, but that's not using a bell curve, as he stated he did.     

Of course you can assume a bell curve where they would only take Penny's single years into account. So you have Penny at age 14, 15, 16, 17, 22, and 23. Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors. Sheldon has seen 17 but adjusts the number up to 132 (as per your earlier suggestion). The rest is just a matter of having fun with the rule of three and you'd get a rounded 54 for ages 16/17 and a rounded 9 for ages 14/15 which conveniently adds up to 193.

The crux of the whole thing is the initial assumption of Sheldon adjusting the number up to 132 cause yes, that seems just like a number he'd simply pull out of his arse. And yes, there is no way of knowing how much Penny really dated during her teens compared to now though it's not a complete unreasonable assumption that she would have dated less being a young teen still living with her parents as opposed to living alone with all the freedom in the world. But again, that wasn't my point anyway. In other words: the maths itself seems fine to me, the underlying assumptions not so much.

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Watching 6.18 when Raj met lucy at the library and there he was.....

BERT!!!!!

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