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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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On 7 September 2016 at 9:04 AM, wowbagger said:

To me, what is interesting about the interview (thanks for linking, April!) is that Molaro seems to be almost.....disgruntled?...about the lack of planning of arcs. He named Lorre as part of the reason that the writers don't plan. Which suggests at least subconsciously that he is disavowing responsibility. Curious.

As to the rest, I agree with all who say that this is classic TBBT 'change is the enemy'. Molaro won't rule out a change in living arrangements, but he also won't rule out walking them back. Sounds about par for the course. Bless. But I am mellower towards Molaro now that I have decided that Chuck Lorre is this dead-eyed Caligula type lounging on cushions, approached by a trembling writers' team with their scripts. 'Lenny move out? Penny get career satisfaction? Boy, I say boy, have you forgotten who has your children captive in a windowless chamber?' 'No, Mr Lorre, sir!' 'Excellent.' 'But Mr Lorre, sir, it's season 2000.' 'And?' 'Well, Mr Lorre, sir, isn't it time Bernadette gave birth, sir?' 'Hmmmmm. Very well, then. End the episode on a water-breaking cliffhanger. We can decide next episode whether she's in labour or not.' 'But Mr Lorre, sir -' 'Children. Windowless room.' 'Yes, Mr Lorre sir.'

Also, good for the interviewer for calling the show on its racist humour. Who else winced at the classic Challenged Privilege Defensiveness from Molaro? 'Kunal Nayyar, our employee, doesn't object to the exactly borderline humour that we subject him to, therefore it MUST be okay.'

Maybe more Tiberius than Caligula... running things from his villa on Capri. But, in the spirit of things TBBT, Palpatine could be the alternate. 

As you were. 

Cheers

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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6 hours ago, amethyst said:

I just hope that if this "flirting with cohabitation"is Amy spending one or two nights a week at Sheldon's apartment she'll be sleeping with him in his bed as his lover and not in Leonard's room like his roommate because that's something I don't want to see!!

Oh, you know that Amy is going to take up residence in Leonard's old room, and that Sheldon will bitch and drag his feet about it because "he hates change." Nevermind that our OCD genius is living peacefully with one of the world's biggest slobs, and doesn't want her to leave, and there's been no problems with that. When Amy wants to move in, or suggests moving in, we'll be reminded that Sheldon spooks easily, that it'll have to go slowly, it'll just be an experiment, and Amy will have to push and nag and nudge and manipulate him into it like taming a wild, childish, tempermental animal rather than dealing with a full grown man who is now pushing 40. And in the end, she'll just be sleeping over in Leonard's old room, while Sheldon adjusts to that terrible and crazy reality because change is SO HARD ON HIM  - despite being ready to ask her to marry him over a year ago - and it'll be like pulling teeth, and just as pleasant to watch.

If you think it'll be different, you have not been paying attention.

Edited by Lionne
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34 minutes ago, Lionne said:

 despite being ready to ask her to marry him over a year ago - and it'll be like pulling teeth, and just as pleasant to watch.

This is what puzzled me when I read something like "for Sheldon to accept the idea of living together, they made it an experiment." in the interview Because in 824 Sheldon wanted to propose, so I think we can safely assume he was ready and happy to move in with Amy then (he does know married couple live together right?). Why isn't he ready now? 

(OK found the interview, quote: "Phrased in the show [terms], presenting something to Sheldon that he may not want to do as science and data collection is a good way to try and get him on board." )

Why would living with Amy still be considered as something Sheldon "may not want to do"? 

I do get it that thinking about something doesn't mean actually doing something, that Shamy need time to adapt living together. However, Molaro made it sound that Sheldon wouldn't even accept the idea of living together if it weren't disguised as an "experiment". 

Shamy making living together an experiment seems like something that should've happened after the fort episode. But it didn't happen at that time. Instead we got a shocking engagement ring. IMO the writers skipped some necessary developments. In order to catch up with the writers' speed of progressing, I made my own version of how Sheldon came to realize that he wouldn't mind marrying or living with Amy. But now it seems like the writers wants to tell the story that they skipped after all, just at the wrong(?) time. I'm just...confused...I feel like I watched 824 and the first half of season 9 in a parallel universe. 

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52 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

 I'm just...confused.

You're confused because you're still buying into the premise that the show makes sense. Or a part of you is still trying to buy into it, although I've noted from your posts for some time that you're edging closer and closer to tossing your Shamy shipper card and just giving in to reality. This is perfectly understandable - the human brain as a habit of trying to put things in order. It's like the way we see human faces where no face really exists; it's just the way the brain wants to see things and seeks data out. We can make three smudges for eyes and mouth, and somehow the brain will arrange it into a face, even an expression of some emotion on it. We're doing the same thing with the show, especially because taken episode by episode, or scene by scene, or little piece by piece, there are still some good, charming, funny moments left, or things that seem right to the characters. Or maybe seemed right to the characters two years ago even if it's only happening now.

However, you take a big step back away from this and try to look at the big picture, it's just a hot, hot mess. The show has been all over the place, but the final test was looking at how the show operated after passing two of it's biggest milestones - Leonard and Penny getting married and Sheldon and Amy having coitus. Look really carefully, in particular, at Wil Wheaton's part in The Opening Night, where he looks right at the boys in the happy afterglow of Star Wars, and coolly and impassively tells them that it's just a movie, that it doesn't mean anything, and that it changes nothing. It is as meta from the writers to the fans as it can possibly be, and it's message is mocking and cruel. Sheldon may have jostled Amy's genitals finally, but nothing about the show or their relationship would be changing. Nothing about them making love had any real meaning.

It is meaningless. This show is meaningless and it's openly acknowledging it. You look for some sense and logic and where things are going in this show, and of course you are confused. Because it's not there, and that's not normal. But it's the truth, and the show has actually full out told us so. it's just too bitter and awful of a pill to swallow. I never in my wildest dreams thought that the show would do this, especially to it's long time fans, but it has. It's a shaggy dog story now that Bill Prady is gone. It sucked us in with the development of 7 amazing, loveable characters for seasons 1 - 5, and then Bill left. Even looking at season 6, you stand back and try to look at the big picture and you realize how it was all over the place back then. But they have taken the original 7 characters and their story and milked it for all it's worth, and then just kept going. And going. And going. And like a good shaggy dog story, they will just keep on going, with enough here and there to pick up your interest - like engagement rings and finale cliffhangers - and then fall back into drivel and filler and wheel spinning.

Shamy had sex, and immediately fell back into Amy making comments about his birthday suit that fly over his head, so her attempts to be flirty with her boyfriend simply land her back on earth with a huge thud. Then she waxes poetic about the day he was born being the best day of her entire life, of all history - because she is pathetic. Path. Et. Ic. Nothing about them has changed at all, and while I hate saying this, ATOB deserves an apology or at least a drive-by visit to scream, "I toldya so." Because it's been months since Amy and Sheldon did the deed, and at the time he displayed not one whiff of an idea he was doing it out of his own passion or desire, but only as a gift to her. And months later and nothing about him has changed at all; he had pity sex with her, sex to keep her satisfied and in a relationship with him on mostly his terms, and not really with any iota of sexual desire, passion, or otherwise. Which the show continually subtly suggests would be ridiculous for him to feel, considering that Amy is nerdy, frumpy, and apparently the hairiest woman known to mankind. Amy is an unattractive doormat, unlike perky, spunky, hot Penny, and she does not receive the longing, the sexual desire, the passion, or the heat from her boyfriend and one-time lover that Penny does.

So they had sex, Sheldon tells us in that horrible Meemaw episode that they are stronger than ever and that the breakup was necessary because it made their relationship better, but that's just the writers using Sheldon as a mouthpiece telling the audience what to think. Like we're sheep. What they are actually showing us is that Sheldon displays no sexual desire for his girlfriend, and that despite the whole break up their relationship dynamic has gone back to exactly the way it was before Amy broke up with him in the first place. Sheldon is more immature and childish than ever, he is still bonded with Leonard and Penny - even declared their extra weird husband now! - and he'll be dragged out of that dysfunctional threesome with them by a pushy Amy who will finally frame a perfectly normal request like "let's live together" into "let's make it an experiment" as a way she has to micro-manage and push all sorts of buttons in order to get Sheldon to do anything. And it won't even be to move in with Sheldon and be in bed with him, sleeping together and having sex like a normal couple. She'll be living in Leonard's room, desperately dropping hints for sex on occasion, while she spends her time cleaning, cooking, and caring for him and he laps it all up like a king. Who understands he has to give up his genitals from time to time to keep living this good life of being taken care of and worshipped...and maybe at some point he'll also realize he has to put a ring on it too.

How romantic that will be.

Edited by Lionne
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4 hours ago, Lionne said:

You're confused because you're still buying into the premise that the show makes sense. Or a part of you is still trying to buy into it, although I've noted from your posts for some time that you're edging closer and closer to tossing your Shamy shipper card and just giving in to reality. This is perfectly understandable - the human brain as a habit of trying to put things in order. It's like the way we see human faces where no face really exists; it's just the way the brain wants to see things and seeks data out. We can make three smudges for eyes and mouth, and somehow the brain will arrange it into a face, even an expression of some emotion on it. We're doing the same thing with the show, especially because taken episode by episode, or scene by scene, or little piece by piece, there are still some good, charming, funny moments left, or things that seem right to the characters. Or maybe seemed right to the characters two years ago even if it's only happening now.

However, you take a big step back away from this and try to look at the big picture, it's just a hot, hot mess. The show has been all over the place, but the final test was looking at how the show operated after passing two of it's biggest milestones - Leonard and Penny getting married and Sheldon and Amy having coitus. Look really carefully, in particular, at Wil Wheaton's part in The Opening Night, where he looks right at the boys in the happy afterglow of Star Wars, and coolly and impassively tells them that it's just a movie, that it doesn't mean anything, and that it changes nothing. It is as meta from the writers to the fans as it can possibly be, and it's message is mocking and cruel. Sheldon may have jostled Amy's genitals finally, but nothing about the show or their relationship would be changing. Nothing about them making love had any real meaning.

It is meaningless. This show is meaningless and it's openly acknowledging it. You look for some sense and logic and where things are going in this show, and of course you are confused. Because it's not there, and that's not normal. But it's the truth, and the show has actually full out told us so. it's just too bitter and awful of a pill to swallow. I never in my wildest dreams thought that the show would do this, especially to it's long time fans, but it has. It's a shaggy dog story now that Bill Prady is gone. It sucked us in with the development of 7 amazing, loveable characters for seasons 1 - 5, and then Bill left. Even looking at season 6, you stand back and try to look at the big picture and you realize how it was all over the place back then. But they have taken the original 7 characters and their story and milked it for all it's worth, and then just kept going. And going. And going. And like a good shaggy dog story, they will just keep on going, with enough here and there to pick up your interest - like engagement rings and finale cliffhangers - and then fall back into drivel and filler and wheel spinning.

Shamy had sex, and immediately fell back into Amy making comments about his birthday suit that fly over his head, so her attempts to be flirty with her boyfriend simply land her back on earth with a huge thud. Then she waxes poetic about the day he was born being the best day of her entire life, of all history - because she is pathetic. Path. Et. Ic. Nothing about them has changed at all, and while I hate saying this, ATOB deserves an apology or at least a drive-by visit to scream, "I toldya so." Because it's been months since Amy and Sheldon did the deed, and at the time he displayed not one whiff of an idea he was doing it out of his own passion or desire, but only as a gift to her. And months later and nothing about him has changed at all; he had pity sex with her, sex to keep her satisfied and in a relationship with him on mostly his terms, and not really with any iota of sexual desire, passion, or otherwise. Which the show continually subtly suggests would be ridiculous for him to feel, considering that Amy is nerdy, frumpy, and apparently the hairiest woman known to mankind. Amy is an unattractive doormat, unlike perky, spunky, hot Penny, and she does not receive the longing, the sexual desire, the passion, or the heat from her boyfriend and one-time lover that Penny does.

So they had sex, Sheldon tells us in that horrible Meemaw episode that they are stronger than ever and that the breakup was necessary because it made their relationship better, but that's just the writers using Sheldon as a mouthpiece telling the audience what to think. Like we're sheep. What they are actually showing us is that Sheldon displays no sexual desire for his girlfriend, and that despite the whole break up their relationship dynamic has gone back to exactly the way it was before Amy broke up with him in the first place. Sheldon is more immature and childish than ever, he is still bonded with Leonard and Penny - even declared their extra weird husband now! - and he'll be dragged out of that dysfunctional threesome with them by a pushy Amy who will finally frame a perfectly normal request like "let's live together" into "let's make it an experiment" as a way she has to micro-manage and push all sorts of buttons in order to get Sheldon to do anything. And it won't even be to move in with Sheldon and be in bed with him, sleeping together and having sex like a normal couple. She'll be living in Leonard's room, desperately dropping hints for sex on occasion, while she spends her time cleaning, cooking, and caring for him and he laps it all up like a king. Who understands he has to give up his genitals from time to time to keep living this good life of being taken care of and worshipped...and maybe at some point he'll also realize he has to put a ring on it too.

How romantic that will be.

I agree with you, for the most part. However, I think our posts will be moved to shipping lanes very soon since they're not Shamy supportive.

I don't think Sheldon "has" to have desire or anything. He can be gay if the writers want. All I ask for is for Amy to KNOW and to show us she's OK with whatever Sheldon's sexuality is. Because now she looks like an idiot complimenting Sheldon's sexual ability and expressing how much she desires Sheldon every chance she gets while Sheldon's just, indifferent.

I refuse to believe it's the writers' intention to insult or laugh at Amy or to suggest that Sheldon doesn't care for Amy at all. After all Shamy can bring them money. I think the current situation is a result of three facts. First, Shamy is their canon and cash maker, they need to give fans some Shamy sweetness from time to time. Second, the writers believe what makes Shamy funny and unique is Sheldon being insulting and oblivious while Amy being a doormat. Third, there're writers who don't want Sheldon to change, who prefer Sheldon to stay his season one to season three personality and the show to continue with its season one to season three dynamic, who want him to be, forgive me for using this word again, asexual.

Combing these three facts together, we get what Shamy is today. There're about four or five episodes every season in which we can tell that Shamy are in love, where they care for each other and enjoy spending time with each other. The rest of the season Shamy act like they are just acquaintances. There're even episodes where I feel that they would prefer to be single.

Maybe the writers' intention is not bad at all. But because of their inconsistencies or like you said, because the show makes little sense nowadays, they're making it really difficult for me to believe that today's Shamy is the one that I used to love.

So do I believe Sheldon hates Amy or Amy hates Sheldon? Of course not. But do I get confused sometimes because the way they treat each other really doesn't look like people who are in love would do? Yes, more and more lately. Is Sheldon asexual? If we look at their train kiss or kisses in 910, I would say definitely not. But since the opening night episode (including the episode itself) I'm sorry I just don't see any desire from Sheldon.

It's like I'm getting two versions of Shamy from the writers, which one should I believe?

And I so agree with you that if the writers want to tell us something, they should show us more instead of just telling us. For example, I've been told about a thousand times by different people that Sheldon does have desire for Amy, but have I ever got an example from episodes after opening night which could show me that? No. So I'm astonished that people would ask me "why wouldn't you believe that Sheldon has desire for Amy?, like why would you believe???

Anyway, I keep watching the show solely because I'm waiting for how exactly the writers are going to deal with coitus in season 10. It could either be a genius way which will make me love Shamy again, or a horrible mess that kills my last faith in Shamy. And I hope it's not the latter.

Edited by camelliayao
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4 hours ago, Vittoria Jacoel said:

Will be the taping report next week?

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Here's the taping and broadcast schedule thread. The next taping is September 13th. Make sure to look at the last post of the thread since that is the most updated one:

And the thread with all the taping reports.

I just realised I might have misunderstood your question, sorry about that. Hopefully someone else can answer.

Edited by Judith
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1 hour ago, April said:

 

That is just factually wrong. And it's not even up for interpretation. Wil says this to the guys before the movie to calm them down, that even if it's not a good movie life goes on. This parallels Shamy's uncertainty of whether or not coitus will be any good but that it'll be okay and they can find out together.

I disagree. I've always thought Wil's line is the writers telling us whether you like the change of the show/Sheldon having coitus or not, your life will not be any different. Because SW is fictive, so is TBBT, SW paralleling TBBT just makes more sense to me. Actually I've seen an official translation team of a large website who owns right of online steaming of TBBT in my country uses Wil's line at the end of the episode to comfort people who don't want Sheldon to lose his virginity or to change.

I'm not saying this interpretation is the right one, just yours is not the only interpretation, and there're people, and quite a few people who interpret the line the same way as Lionne.

Edited by camelliayao
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20 minutes ago, Soopysue said:

@April- I love you !!!! I have been waiting on your answer as I knew I would be worded so much better them mine ever would be !!!

I wasn't even sure where to begin ! But mainly " normal couple " - Shamy ? Since when would any of us like to see them as a normal couple ?!!! I thought we loved them quirks and all ?! 

I'm sitting tight with this info, and can't wait to see what we get next, my head is buzzing with all kinds of ways this LA " experiment " could be brought up, some more exciting than others - but you know what, no matter how it's dealt with and comes about , I'm going to sit back wait and enjoy the ride ! Because in the end these writers brought us the Shamy I love and IMO write Shamy changes in the most brilliant way ( yes I wasn't a fan of season 9, ep 1-10 , but mainly cause I didn't like to see them both hurting - I'm a wee romantic ! , but now it's sorted I get it ) .So " I'm ready " season 10 !!!! 

I dare say, and I am a newbie around here yet, that I have been waiting for @April s answer, as I was sure that would be alike as mine would be about the subject and she worded it so much better  as my vocabulary and gramar would make a compex post hard to read. Thanks :)

I trust in writers about shamy, even sometimes I think that they could be a litle faster but at the end it usually makes sense, so I am ready for season 10 and all shamy things that will bright for us! :)

1 hour ago, Carlilla said:

If Amy starts to live in Leonard's room can be interesting. Because I'm sure that Sheldon can't resist and he'll wake up in the middle of the night to sleep with her... or something more... ;)

Surely Sheldon couldn't resist Amy, as they would be sleeping separated by a thin Wall, hehe!

I can see Sheldon talk and talk with Amy through the bed Wall as he usually do with Leonard and Penny and asking if she is good in the bedroom, if the maitress is good enough for her back. Amy would complain about it ,as her water's one is better and Sheldon would say proudly that his is the best of market. By end, Sheldon would sugest Amy to come to his bed to try it ... :wub:

Oh back to Reading mode :D

Edited by spidergirl1975
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1 hour ago, April said:

But Wil's line at the end of the episode was a different one, that's my point. He did not say that after the movie - he said it before. That is a fact. If you (general you) want to turn this into a huge rant about how the show is telling you how meaningless everything is or whatever, at least get your facts straight..

My point is regardless of where Wil's line is (but sure facts are facts) there're two different interpretations. You original post left me the feeling that Lionne only got that conclusion because She remembered wrong. I was saying a lot of people got that conclusion as well, and they all remembered right. But if you were just pointing out the wrong fact, my apologies for misuderstandig you.

Edited by camelliayao

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12 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

My point is regardless of where Wil's line is (but sure facts are facts) there're two different interpretations. You original post left me the feeling that Lionne only got that conclusion because She remembered wrong. I was saying a lot of people got that conclusion as well, and they all remembered right. But if you were just pointing out the wrong fact, my apologies for misuderstandig you.

No problem. The "not up to interpretation" comment was about the factual error. I do agree that Wil's comment saying "Guys, it’s just a movie!" is very meta but I also think it's necessary to see it in its correct context.

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16 hours ago, wowbagger said:

don't entertain the nonsense! Don't entertain the straw man....which is essentially what this statement is. Nobody is claiming that Sheldon hates Amy. Nobody is saying that the show wants us to think so either. In fact, I am sure the show wants us to think that we are watching a loving and united couple. Here's the deal though: If we do not believe that we have sufficient on-screen evidence that we are indeed watching a loving and united couple who enjoy each other, then we can say so WITHOUT saying that we believe they hate each other. There is a whole range of unpleasant options for a shipper that do not involve hate. That are, in fact, worse than hate , which is at least a strong emotion and separated from love by not very much. Let's see, what could those be?

a ) Benign indifference

b ) Affection born of habit and sustained by inertia

c ) Quiet desperation

d ) Expediency

and so on.

You telling me that your point is that the Shamy situation is even "worse than hate" (my, looks like my "strawman" needed some more straw, eh?) isn't exactly helping to make your case here. 

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April first off, I love you! You say things in a coherent way that I envy. 

Second, where is this all coming from? Last time I checked we were happily excited about season 10, I was too busy yesterday with college to check back in, but I wake up to this? 

Guys...the season hasn't even happened yet, the storylines proposed haven't even happened yet. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions on how they'll play out, or their relationship really is. Are we forgetting our rule of taking everything he says with a grain of salt? 

Maybe Sheldon proposes it as an experiment in order to make such a drastic change to his life seem more reasonable and logical to him. Maybe Sheldon gets jealous of Amy's mice experiment because they already were apart because he was busy with the guidance system and now Amy's too busy to see him. (I can easily imagine him saying "Amy why waste your time with little mouse brains, when you have a far more superior brain right in front of you?") JMO on how it might go down. 

But no! Clearly any of this means that Amy will be left jealous and desperate—despite the fact that (aside from some silly flirting and hinting) we really haven't seen the more pushy Amy of past seasons. The things that make us fall in love with them, that have kept me sane, hungry for a strong good Shamy plot, are not what's been spoon fed to us as some people might suggest, but the little hidden things. A glance at each other, a subtle physical contact, the eye coitus (love that phrase BTW) You could make the argument that that's more the actors, but their playing Sheldon and Amy. All those little GIFs and screen shots remind me that they're in a good place. In addition to stuff that has been shown in the show. And all that will be said (that genital line, and Sheldon's pride about it, are pure Shamy to me)

 

Or maybe I'm off my rocker. Who knows? 

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2 hours ago, Soopysue said:

Just back to add - are there really people getting upset/worried over a storyline we know nothing about yet ?

It could go soooo many different ways, be instigated/suggested  by any of the four or someone out with the four , for all different kinds of reasons !!! I can't type all the scenarios I can come up with it'd take too long......I can't wait to find out the next chapter ! 

Anyway back to work for me !!! 

Big hugs Shamy shippers :) 

I think it's fair to speculate and I'm a little bit cautious because I am so invested in these two characters and want as much happiness as possible for them. I am sure it will work out great for them and have a positive outcome but it's only natural to have a bit of caution, that and I am probably falling into the overanalyzing trap that we all are guilty of sometimes. 

This is a potentially huge deal and Amy will jump at the prospect of living with Sheldon as she has been angling for that for years, so if it finally happens I don't want to see a situation at all where he commits but then backtracks because the experiment didn't work out in his eyes. I think the chances of this happening are slim to none but nothing would surprise me on this show.

Fingers crossed whatever they do works out for everyone and it becomes such a positive experience instead of a negative one.

Edited by Jonny83
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Please keep this thread for supportive, Shamy discussion. More general talk about the show belongs in either the Season 10 discussion thread or, if it relates to more than one ship, the Shipping Lanes thread.

Technical issues are preventing the previous discussion from being moved out of this thread right now, but it shouldn't be continued here.

The posts have made it over to this thread.

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13 minutes ago, April said:

Maybe someone can conjure up some CSI enhancement magic on this one:

LOL

Impossible. :( 

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3 hours ago, Tripper said:

The posts have made it over to this thread.

I was wondering what happened. It reminded me of the other day when someone in my house was watching Gilmore Girls on netflix while I was setting something up on her computer. Too much dialog for me. 

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Hmm, I read what was posted about possibilities with LAs.  I took it to mean than they create a safety net to fall back on if they want/need to.

My take may be just a tad different though.  Perhaps it has little to do with the audience, ratings, critics, etc. and more about what feels comfortable to TPTB.  If they like it and it feels natural, organic...well, yeah they keep it.  Yay, us.  If it feels odd, icky, and contrived, well, "hey, it was just an experiment and well, nope not ready."  Too bad so sad to those who desire otherwise. 

I think a show on it's 10th season and all signs seem to point to the 11th.  IMO, I think they worry less about critical acclaim and more about what feels good right, good to the writers, creators.

And as a total aside, as a former Shamy shipper, I just stay quiet about it all.  But yeah, what I see is more of the same. 

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