Jump to content
The Big Bang Theory Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, mjc45 said:

@wowbagger, WOW that was great. where are my gif makers? i need applauds

for the post, thanks

mjc45, sorry I’m a bit late but perhaps you’ll also like this? :shy:

n_014.gif

Edited by veejay
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tensor said:

According to reports at the time, the first five will each be earning 1 million an episode this year.  While Simon and Kunnal didn't start at that amount this contract, they did move up to the 1 million figure for this year.  That could be one of the negotiation sticking points, for something past the eleventh season.  Melissa and Mayim are scheduled (again based on reports) around $200k this year.    That may seem like it's unfair, but they are between what the big three made at the end of their seventh year, and what Simon and Kunnal made at the end of their seventh year.   

The big bounces for the first five occurred at the beginning of this contract, their first contract after their original 7 year contract ended.   Any contracts after this will be Melissa and Mayim's first contract after their seven years, I'm quite sure they want a rather sizable bump  But, and here's the big question, how far is CBS willing to bump their  salaries and if they get a big bump, how does that affect any raises the other five would like to get?  And what if one of a group gets a bigger bounce, how does that affect the rest of them?

 Do they do what Kaley and Johnny did with the current contract and just go in with 'Most favored Nation" status(for those who don't know, they sat back and waited for Jim to finish his negotiations.  As CBS agreed, Kaley and Johnny were going to get, pay wise, the same as Jim.

It seems to me they need the core three plus Mayim to keep the series going and most the fans happy. Beyond them they could refresh the series with new lower pay scale characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

It seems to me they need the core three plus Mayim to keep the series going and most the fans happy. Beyond them they could refresh the series with new lower pay scale characters.

I agree.

As much as I love Howard, I can't stomach too much of Bernie's bitchyness and Raj as turned into....damn, I can't think of what the word we trade marked for Raj is now that he's a giant douch....

Anyway, IF it came down to cutting some characters out, I think they would be able to get away with cutting Raj lose and possibly even Howard & Bernie.  I think it's kinda odd and telling that a lot of the episodes for the last couple of seasons have felt like "separate shows."  On one half you got some form of Lenny & Shamy plots and on the other, Howardette and Raj.

And yeah, to replace them and have the remaining four play off of others, they could get one or two other characters that they don't have to pay so much for.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 5:08 AM, Soopysue said:

@April- I love you !!!! I have been waiting on your answer as I knew I would be worded so much better them mine ever would be !!!

I wasn't even sure where to begin ! But mainly " normal couple " - Shamy ? Since when would any of us like to see them as a normal couple ?!!! I thought we loved them quirks and all ?! 

I'm sitting tight with this info, and can't wait to see what we get next, my head is buzzing with all kinds of ways this LA " experiment " could be brought up, some more exciting than others - but you know what, no matter how it's dealt with and comes about , I'm going to sit back wait and enjoy the ride ! Because in the end these writers brought us the Shamy I love and IMO write Shamy changes in the most brilliant way ( yes I wasn't a fan of season 9, ep 1-10 , but mainly cause I didn't like to see them both hurting - I'm a wee romantic ! , but now it's sorted I get it ) .So " I'm ready " season 10 !!!! 

I respect your posts and opinion, but it is amazing how we can both have opinions that differ so much. I loved S9 Ep 1-10 because I thought the writers were going to give us a cogent story, and there was going to be real growth and then the writers gave us the crap story they did. I remember that back then I used to appear on the Shamy thread and tried to appease Shamy shippers and reassure them that everything would be OK in the end. When the writers decided to get Shamy back together with no real change, I simply stopped caring, not for Shamy, but for the writing of them. Everybody knows I'm a Lenny, but I've cared about Shamy, but their story, or for that matter the Lenny + Sheldon story makes no sense to me as of right now. If to that we add the fact that the split of a couple was seen 95% from 1 character's point of view and %5 from the other's, you can understand why my confidence in the writers'  abilities has diminished exponentially through the years.

Yes, these writers brought us Shamy (and Lenny), but IMO their stories, as presently being told are pure, unadulterated crap.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, wowbagger said:

In my fanfic version of the writers' room, Lorre is basically some sort of Bro BBC!Sherlock fan, and Molaro has to feverishly come up with ways to sneak the forward momentum that he wants past him. And the compromise they hit on is: Long long periods of inactivity, interspersed by violent spasms of something that sort of looks like a big development....and then the slumbering dragon wakes and throws his toys out of the pram and will only be appeased by equally violent regression.

Scene: CBS writers' cafetaria. MOLARO, a sensitive boy, is sitting huddled over a notebook in which he is writing furiously. LORRE, a musclebound jock with a backwards baseball cap on his head, walks in. Spotting his prey, a smirk dawns on his face. He steals up to Molaro and snatches the book from his hand. Over his protests, he flicks through it.

L: Are these....pictures of HOUSES for Leonard and Penny? Is that a literal white picket fence?

M: Give it back, Chuck!

L: Wait wait wait, this is too good. Are these...WEDDING GOWNS for AMY?

M: Come on, Chuck. He loves her, he said so. She is the fabric softener to his heart!

L: You got me drunk and made me agree to that. But what the hell, dude? It's, like, a PRETTY gown.

M: Come on, Chuck! She's had a hard life! She deserves a pretty wedding! All women want a traditional wedding, no matter what they say! And come on, dude, she cleans up nicely!

L (laughing hysterically) she's a frumpy werewolf whom nobody could find pretty except for pasty weirdoes like Dave and Bert!

M: Sheldon thought she was pretty! He said so in the prom episode!

L: Ugh, I don't know what VAGINA wrote that episode. Thank God THAT'S at an end.

M: He loves her!

L: He could NEVER love her! Sheldon is a towering Olympian beyond love and hate. A Colossus among men born only to float above them powered by awesomeness. He is beyond the base grunting and lusting of the common ruck of humanity. And if he WERE to be brought low, it would only be to a lesbian dominatrix cat burglar blackmailer who installs an orgasm ringtone on his phone.

M: ....You've been watching that 'Sherlock' box set again.

L: Of course I have. It's Tuesday. No, you put this nonsense aside. Sheldon is destined for greater things than candlelit dinners with Miss Marple.

M (desperately) well....well...at least can Leonard and Penny move out?

L: Your OTHER little pet. No! Penny is an ineffable goddess, to float in a cloud of disdain, hotness and alcohol fumes over the repulsive goblin who tricked her into his bed.

M (struck by inspiration) what if it's an experiment?

L (arrested): An experiment?

M (thinking fast): Yes! And...and...and....we can have Amy say things like clinical trial!

L: Sheldon. Smart sounding things are Sheldon. Unless! That hairy heifer Amy is using the words to entice him!

M: ....okay, sure. And...and...and....Sheldon likes it better than he thought, and Leonard and Penny move out, and...

L: Excuse me?

M: Er....er....er....it's open ended! So...so....so...it can be walked back!

L (relaxing): That's better.

M (hopefully): Can Amy move in while Leonard and Penny move away?

L: Sure!

M: Oh wow! Well then-

L: It's a great idea! We'll have Sheldon show her his room, and she'll get all excited, and then he'll remind her that girls are not allowed and he'll take her bags to Leonard's room! (Laughs heartily) oh I can't wait to see Mayim's face. Oh the faces she makes. You can tell she's dying of laughter.

M (sighs): Do we really need to...

L (relenting): Look, I'll tell you what. We'll have Sheldon tell her about his fear of pills. It's something he's never told anybody!

M: .....because it makes no sense at all?

L: Look, take it or leave it.

M (sighing again): I'll take it.

end scene.

I wonder if L has an artistic vision and he is trying to adhere to that, rather than what is otherwise a Disneyfication of the original concept. 

Thats me trying on a defence of L. Can that fly?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things:

1. I think the show would suffer comedy wise without Howard he plays so well with and off of the big three I think he would definitely be missed. Honestly I think comedy and story wise Raj and Bernie and yes even amy could go if necessary and the show stay both funny and true to its roots. I know the amy comment will be controversial but she is a foil for Sheldon 90℅ of the time and she was virtually MIA during the break up with no ratings drop.

2. Change artistic vision to ego and Disneyfication to upbeat, light and most importantly sellable and I think you have it. Lorre has a long history of hits and given that the network passed on the pilot as to dark and forced a pretty significant change before they bought it (the only time this has happened to him I think) I think it bruised his ego, and he has tried to move the show back to his original concept more than once. The most obvious example being season 4 Penny

 

Edited by JE7
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I wonder if L has an artistic vision and he is trying to adhere to that, rather than what is otherwise a Disneyfication of the original concept. 

Thats me trying on a defence of L. Can that fly?

 

Funny 'cause I think his artistic vision wasn't left much the minute he agreed to change the show from a nerd show to some sort of a family show. And his artistic vision was certainly gone when he agreed to let Shamy breakup take a large part of season 9 to the point the show started to turn into a soap opera or when he started to use such cliche as "oh but he already got a ring!" in the plots.

See I respect that the writers want to maintain the show's "dynamic". I would love if show never changes. Before I turned into a shipper in season 8, I've watched the show for six years. And I love its first three seasons. What I don't respect is when they didn't have enough stories, or, enough talent tbh to continue with its original dynamic, they added some characters and romantic stories so they can keep making money. But at the same time they refused to give decent story lines to these characters and proper developments to these couples. It seems to me some of the writers regret creating Shamy from time to time. So Shamy always take one step forward and three steps back. As a result, the show suffers from inconsistencies. Same with Lenny's marriage. I think some of the writers regret agreeing to getting Lenny married so "early".

I respect a show that's consistent, that makes sense. A show that respects the audience and its characters. And I've watched shows that could do these things but still have artistic visions. The thing is, you either tell a good story or a bad story, artistic visions are simply irrelevant.

All above is just IMO of course.

Edited by camelliayao
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I wonder if L has an artistic vision and he is trying to adhere to that, rather than what is otherwise a Disneyfication of the original concept. 

That's me trying on a defence of L. Can that fly?

Lorre's artistic vision is making money, IMO

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I wonder if L has an artistic vision and he is trying to adhere to that, rather than what is otherwise a Disneyfication of the original concept. 

Thats me trying on a defence of L. Can that fly?

 

Oh, I don't disagree. I don't think I'd watch a show where Molaro's artistic vision (insofar as I can glean it from what's onscreen) held sway. I appreciate that Molaro dies want his characters to move forward, but his ideas of growth and development strike me as fairly....petit-bourgeois (marriage for everyone! Even Raj I guess! Eventually! For some reason!) and sexist in their own way. As in, I am pretty sure Molaro's stamp is on having Amy perennially tut and cluck at Sheldon and have naff-all quirky interests or eccentricity of her own. I don't think he's any less guilty of the 'boys=science, girls=socialising' divide that we have seen than Lorre. And the eleven episodes from the s8 finale onwards struck me as choc-a-bloc of some really pretty egregiously overwrought chest-beating emotionalism and OMGWTFBBQDRAMA! for its own sake, with a breakup told solely from Sheldon's point of view, and the boat kiss being whisked under the carpet in the space of basically one episode where Penny is instructed to take Leonard back because he chose her. That whole idea that women are basically around to make men Better Through Love is a pretty Molaro thing. And I was not a fan. The Mary Suing onto Leonard and Amy, where they are painstakingly stripped of any distinguishing characteristics but long-sufferingness, and we are still expected to root for them to get what they want, for....reasons-I think of as a pretty Molaro thing.

So yeah, I don't think I'd be that keen on Molaro's artistic vision and I don't blame Lorre for not wanting it either. And it is entirely possible that Lorre wanted something darker originally (as @JE7 points out) and he is trying to hew closer to it now. The trouble is that when you get the two together, you get the nightmarish cocktail of baseline cruelty and mean-spiritedness, interspersed with huge, grandstanding declarations of True Love and Brotherhood...which are basically instantly undone by some random bit of hilarious nastiness either in the same episode or shortly after. And the grandstanding is so desperately outsize (because I guess Molaro has lured Lorre into the basement and has to get as many Big Moments out of his system as he can before the guy gets out?) that you can't believe it, and it is invalidated moments later anyway, so what you're left with is nastiness and emotional dishonesty.

I liked the show better, I think, when Prady was more involved. Of all of the writers, I think he was the one who saw them as characters for whom he had understanding and affection, rather than Molaro's projection and Lorre's slavering over Sheldon and Penny, and his sadism to the rest. Of all the writers, I think he was the one who most allowed the characters joy in specific interests, and in-depth discussions on arcane things, as opposed to Molaro's sole identification of nerdiness=bullied in school WAAAA, and Lorre's HA HA HA nerdiness=bullied in school HA HA HA. I'm not saying that a solely Prady show would be perfect (stagnation seemed to be his hallmark, no?), but I think it was useful to have the leaven of someone who gets that, you know, it is possible to ENJOY your life and relationships (romantic and otherwise). They're not just trophies you win and/or bad bargains you're stuck with.

Edited by wowbagger
ETA: credit to koops for the 'lured Lorre into a basement' line.
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

and in-depth discussions on arcane things

Can you name an example?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Wow that season 1 - 5 with Bill Prady as headwriter have a different flavor than season 6- 9 with Molaro. I know that some people only like seasons 1 - 3, before the girls came along, but I feel like seasons 1 - 5 actually all flow together and are quite consistent for me. It's the show I liked, and I actually think that the whole show reached it's peak and was it's best for season 5. What we have now does seem a jerky mess between Molaro's sentimentality and Chuck's much darker edge. I feel like there hasn't been any ability to gain plot traction or meaning from the show's milestones due to the fact there's some tug-o-war doing on with the show's direction. You can an episode which seems to go in a certain direction and that direction just completely vanishes by the next episode, and maybe or maybe not suddenly pops back up as relevant 10 episodes later, or something very sweet and big happens and the next episode we're doing to undo it all, especially through Sheldon being a psycho hose beast hell child over something. At this point in time, I consider what happens in each episode and where the story seems to be going to depend on who "wins" this week - Molaro or Lorre.

As for Lorre, for one thing I think he's got an extremely dark sense of humor. Also, I think that Lorre's true talent is in recognizing and fostering talent, no matter what it takes. He has a long line of shows which are carried by very talented people, some of whom have significant substance abuse problems or mental illness, and I think that part of his problem is when he puts together very talented ensembles of people but doesn't necessarily get out of their way, but interjects over them rather roughshod. The Big Bang Theory was really one of his first shows that critics felt "did not suck," but I wonder how much of that had to do with Bill Prady knowing how to handle him, or at least being willing to handle him for 5 seasons before he basically cut a runner and stepped down. I think that the current TBBT audience is really running on huge fumes of nostalgia for this old-school sitcom format and the first five to seven seasons of this show (Season Seven was a big turning point, a lot of people seemed to quit or vanish after that one, and I think we'll see another drop after Season Nine), and continues to bring in people based on the syndicated episodes of earlier seasons too.

As for Season 10, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing a lot of difference from the earlier formula when Lenny renew their vows lovingly one episode, and in the next two Leonard's talking about only his French toast keeping Penny in the marriage, or Penny explaining that she settled for Leonard because he just wore her down. Like wow said, it would seem that Molaro and crew manage to lock Lorre in the basement and get some sweet things accomplished - albeit some seriously cliche sh*t at times - but then Lorre escapes out the bathroom window and is back to demand that every single cast member needs to comment on how hot Penny is, and Amy needs to get her expectations sky high over her relationship with Sheldon only to get cut off at the knees. Because how high onto Cloud 9 Amy can get, only to be brought back to earth with a painful thump is just so darn funny! 

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lionne said:

At this point in time, I consider what happens in each episode and where the story seems to be going to depend on who "wins" this week - Molaro or Lorre.

Hahahahahha, so true! Hope Bill join the contest more this season.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As said in an earlier post I also think that different people in charge (Lorre, Prady, Molaro) have different ambitions as to where they want(ed) to see the show go. However, I am a bit more careful with the attribution of the who is responsible for what beyond the knowledge that Lorre has a bit of a dark humour streak in him and Lorre/Prady repeatedly crediting Molaro with pushing the boundaries of what the show can do in terms of moving the characters forward. The thing is that the scripts are still a collaborative effort so I'm very averse to crediting all the bad things to Lorre, the good things to Prady and the soapy things to Molaro. When rewatching the show I never really got the feeling that there's a huge change between any of the seasons in terms of quality as such. The show always had its good, bad and even ugly sides no matter where you draw the line of your own personal "golden era". The one big change for me is really just the introduction of the girls and the fact that long term storylines slowly became a thing, and both aspects seem to be inseparably intertwined. In the end we all have our personal preferences and while I think there's some sleazy humour in the early seasons that I absolutely loathe others see it as funny and refreshing. People like what they like.

Anyway, as @Tensor has already elaborated on, there's a lot that goes into the production of a show and artistic ambitions are not exactly one of them. It can be a happy accident but in the end the objective is to tell stories that are entertaining enough so that many people will watch it. TBBT was never some art student's project intending to making some socio-political commentary of the contemporary life of nerds or whatever. It's a sitcom. And a very popular one at that. So they certainly meet their objective to entertain a lot of people and have been on a relatively stable level for the last years. And again, as Tensor explained more than once already, subjective ideas of whatever constitutes as "good" or "bad" writing don't reflect any fluctuations in viewing numbers. Current shifts of viewing methods have a much bigger influence and can be observed all across the board. So I'm personally refraining from making assumptions about millions of people sharing my particular views on the show's writing quality.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, April said:

Can you name an example?

Off the top of my head? The Hofstadter Isotope (Stuart and Sheldon grooving on Marvel continuity, Sheldon blissed out on Drake equations I think?), the Lizard Spock Expansion, and just so much of seasons four and five, I think?

With frequent collaborator Dave Goetsch (who was on quite a lot of Season Eight too, wasn't he, and only surfaced later in the bachelor party episode and Big Bear, I think, in S9? Not that that is an 'arcane subjects' point, but it struck me).

Anyway, you are right that we should be careful to attribute specific things to specific authors, but there seem to be three specific points of view and ideas of characterisation at play here, and I'll set out my reasons for attribution below:

a ) the darkness, misogyny and cruelty which seems to be a staple of some other Lorre shows (famously Two and a Half Men). Interestingly, 'Mom' seems to be more heartfelt and different, from all accounts.

b ) the sentimentality (frequently rather mawkish) which seems to be a Molaro thing, simply because it seemed to become more of a feature of the show the more he got involved.

c ) the small-canvas, relatively minutely-observed interactions which I thought largely disappeared after season eight, coinciding with the lower involvement of Prady.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Off the top of my head? The Hofstadter Isotope (Stuart and Sheldon grooving on Marvel continuity, Sheldon blissed out on Drake equations I think?), the Lizard Spock Expansion, and just so much of seasons four and five, I think?

With frequent collaborator Dave Goetsch (who was on quite a lot of Season Eight too, wasn't he, and only surfaced later in the bachelor party episode and Big Bear, I think, in S9? Not that that is an 'arcane subjects' point, but it struck me).

Yeah, those kind of things don't strike me as particularly "arcane" so when you use that phrase I'm always left wondering what the heck you're thinking of, as in: what is the measuring stick here? Which is... "the usual mainstream geeky chatter"??

For example, Stuart and Sheldon debate about which Robin should succeed Batman after his recent comic book death at the time (which is btw DC not Marvel, but I'm starting to see why you think this is "arcane knowledge"...) and that was a pretty popular topic on many geeky sites back then. It's very accessible knowledge and the moment they mention something more obscure they add a somewhat clunky explanation so that the general audience doesn't feel left out. And thus the whole debate with Stuart and Sheldon begins with them explaining to each other that Dick Grayson is the first Robin and later becomes Nightwing, and that there was a second Robin named Jason Todd - which is kinda ridiculous seeing that this is a dialogue between a comic book shop owner and, well, Sheldon.

Point being, the way they handle the geeky stuff has pretty much stays the same over the years. It's mostly whatever is currently a big talking point in the geeky sphere presented in a way that makes it accessible for the general non-geeky audience as well.

Quote

Anyway, you are right that we should be careful to attribute specific things to specific authors, but there seem to be three specific points of view and ideas of characterisation at play here, and I'll set out my reasons for attribution below:

a ) the darkness, misogyny and cruelty which seems to be a staple of some other Lorre shows (famously Two and a Half Men). Interestingly, 'Mom' seems to be more heartfelt and different, from all accounts.

b ) the sentimentality (frequently rather mawkish) which seems to be a Molaro thing, simply because it seemed to become more of a feature of the show the more he got involved.

c ) the small-canvas, relatively minutely-observed interactions which I thought largely disappeared after season eight, coinciding with the lower involvement of Prady.

a) I do think Lorre mellowed out a lot over the years - or at least it seems so from recent interviews - which would both explain "Mom" but also the "darkness" in TBBT being gradually reduced over the years. We may disagree on with what severity and frequency it still pops up in the writing but overall it's toned down as compared to earlier seasons.

b ) Haha yeah. Many of the long terms developments that Lorry/Prady credit Molaro with revolve around love and personal growth so I can see how that makes him look like the hippie-dippy idealist of the trio.

c) I'm honestly having a hard time seeing S9 as proof of anything cause so far it's an outlier in terms of story structure and focus. And Prady has been getting only a handful of writing credits ever since S6. There wasn't a sudden huge drop from S8 to S9 from what I can tell.

Edited by April
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's a very serious thing when we guess which writer is responsible for what. After all these are only our speculations. Nobody is actually "blaming" any of the writers. And the way @wowbagger writes is obviously just for fun. Nobody in their right mind will believe those conversations actually happened, right?

Also these sort of things happen on tumblr too. For example, I often see comments about how Molaro treats Shamy from Shamy fans on tumblr, even though we don't know for sure whether those ideas all come from Molaro or not. But it seems to me people on tumblr are OK with them. (Molaro may be the one who gets interviewed but he may only be voicing the other writers' opinions)

3 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Hahahahahha, so true! Hope Bill join the contest more this season.

 

3 hours ago, Lionne said:

I have to agree with Wow that season 1 - 5 with Bill Prady as headwriter have a different flavor than season 6- 9 with Molaro. I know that some people only like seasons 1 - 3, before the girls came along, but I feel like seasons 1 - 5 actually all flow together and are quite consistent for me. It's the show I liked, and I actually think that the whole show reached it's peak and was it's best for season 5. What we have now does seem a jerky mess between Molaro's sentimentality and Chuck's much darker edge. I feel like there hasn't been any ability to gain plot traction or meaning from the show's milestones due to the fact there's some tug-o-war doing on with the show's direction. You can an episode which seems to go in a certain direction and that direction just completely vanishes by the next episode, and maybe or maybe not suddenly pops back up as relevant 10 episodes later, or something very sweet and big happens and the next episode we're doing to undo it all, especially through Sheldon being a psycho hose beast hell child over something. At this point in time, I consider what happens in each episode and where the story seems to be going to depend on who "wins" this week - Molaro or Lorre.

As for Lorre, for one thing I think he's got an extremely dark sense of humor. Also, I think that Lorre's true talent is in recognizing and fostering talent, no matter what it takes. He has a long line of shows which are carried by very talented people, some of whom have significant substance abuse problems or mental illness, and I think that part of his problem is when he puts together very talented ensembles of people but doesn't necessarily get out of their way, but interjects over them rather roughshod. The Big Bang Theory was really one of his first shows that critics felt "did not suck," but I wonder how much of that had to do with Bill Prady knowing how to handle him, or at least being willing to handle him for 5 seasons before he basically cut a runner and stepped down. I think that the current TBBT audience is really running on huge fumes of nostalgia for this old-school sitcom format and the first five to seven seasons of this show (Season Seven was a big turning point, a lot of people seemed to quit or vanish after that one, and I think we'll see another drop after Season Nine), and continues to bring in people based on the syndicated episodes of earlier seasons too.

As for Season 10, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing a lot of difference from the earlier formula when Lenny renew their vows lovingly one episode, and in the next two Leonard's talking about only his French toast keeping Penny in the marriage, or Penny explaining that she settled for Leonard because he just wore her down. Like wow said, it would seem that Molaro and crew manage to lock Lorre in the basement and get some sweet things accomplished - albeit some seriously cliche sh*t at times - but then Lorre escapes out the bathroom window and is back to demand that every single cast member needs to comment on how hot Penny is, and Amy needs to get her expectations sky high over her relationship with Sheldon only to get cut off at the knees. Because how high onto Cloud 9 Amy can get, only to be brought back to earth with a painful thump is just so darn funny! 

 

I once made an excel chart to see which ones of the writers wrote my favorite Shamy episodes (I know I should get a life lol). It turns out Bill, Jim Renolds and Lorre are the top three. Although maybe Lorre is among the top three because he wrote so many of the episodes of the first few seasons. Anyway, from a shipper point of view, I'd like to see more episodes written by Bill and Jim Renolds in the future xoxo.

Edited by camelliayao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal suspicions about Lorre come down to two pretty specific instances: 

1) Season 7 - He's absent from Locomotive, where Sheldon kisses Amy and has this huge maturing moment, but immediately after he's right back on Table, where Sheldon revels in his infantile selfishness with his "the baby always wins" line. 

2) Season 8 - Chuck vanishes from the scripts for a long hiatus in season 8, when I felt Shamy felt a lot more like their old selves. Which built up to their first sleep over in Fort. Molaro gave an interview saying they had grown closer "and would continue to do so." Immediately after Fort, Chuck was back on season 8's last 3 scripts, including the sudden Shamy break up. It's hard for me to rationalize why Molaro would say Shamy were going to grow closer if he knew a break up was in the works, and right after Fort is when Chuck returns after sitting out 10-11 episodes in a row. (I think? He was all over seasons 6 & 7 but was missing on scripts for a big chunk of 8.) 

There might be nothing to this as we can't be sure what happens in the writing room, but Chuck has a way of popping up when things have progressed to a certain point to throw a spanner in the works. 

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might be wrong, because that was a long time ago, but I remember an interview (maybe at some Comic con?) where the writers acknowledged that the writing process was a pretty collective stuff and that the credits in the episodes not necessarily reflected who did what. 

Edited by mirs1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mirs1 said:

I might be wrong, because that was a long time ago, but I remember an interview (maybe at some Comic con?) where the writers acknowledged that the writing process was a pretty collective stuff and that the credits in the episodes not necessarily reflected who did what. 

Well of course they'll say that. :icon_biggrin:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Well of course they'll say that. :icon_biggrin:

Well, the thing sounded very odd to me, that's probably why I remember it...As a person who writes (scientific) papers for a living, I'm pretty concerned with intellectual ownership and listening somebody acknowledge that they pretty much random wrote the credits in their works, everybody agreeing on that, no less, amazed me a lot! Not that that doesn't happen with scientific papers, but generally who does those things tries to hide it, LOL!

Edited by mirs1
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Lionne said:

My personal suspicions about Lorre come down to two pretty specific instances: 

1) Season 7 - He's absent from Locomotive, where Sheldon kisses Amy and has this huge maturing moment, but immediately after he's right back on Table, where Sheldon revels in his infantile selfishness with his "the baby always wins" line. 

2) Season 8 - Chuck vanishes from the scripts for a long hiatus in season 8, when I felt Shamy felt a lot more like their old selves. Which built up to their first sleep over in Fort. Molaro gave an interview saying they had grown closer "and would continue to do so." Immediately after Fort, Chuck was back on season 8's last 3 scripts, including the sudden Shamy break up. It's hard for me to rationalize why Molaro would say Shamy were going to grow closer if he knew a break up was in the works, and right after Fort is when Chuck returns after sitting out 10-11 episodes in a row. (I think? He was all over seasons 6 & 7 but was missing on scripts for a big chunk of 8.) 

There might be nothing to this as we can't be sure what happens in the writing room, but Chuck has a way of popping up when things have progressed to a certain point to throw a spanner in the works. 

Yeah, I can see how that taints your impression when he pops up in episodes you especially dislike. Two things though:

1) Chuck wasn't immediately back after Fort - there was another episode where he wasn't involved in. I think it's also pretty save to say that the sudden drop in Shamy focus was because of Mayim's real life tragedy. The writers respected her need to spend more time with her family and thus we got her in only one or two scenes per episode. Whether or not that affected the trajectory of Shamy with regards to the breakup we can only speculate.

2) Molaro says a lot of things in his interviews but his job here is primarily to sell the show and keep people interested. I would need to see the exact timing/context to see how much sense it makes then for him to say certain things. But in general I take what he says with a bucket load of salt (even though, admittedly, I enjoy speculating based on his vague story teases).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Well, the thing sounded very odd to me, that's probably why I remember it...As a person who writes (scientific) papers for a living, I'm pretty concerned with intellectual ownership and listening somebody acknowledge that they pretty much random wrote the credits in their works, everybody agreeing on that, no less, amazed me a lot! Not that that doesn't happen with scientific papers, but generally who does those things tries to hide it, LOL!

Maybe the academic world is different from the TV industry? I don't know. But I believe the idea of each episode may mainly comes from one or two of the writers. The other writers only contribute their options on details. Also I believe where the main storyline goes is a result of collaboration, or, a negotiation/compromise to be more precise. Like I'm almost sure some of he writers would want to solve the LA problem sooner than the others. That's why we made a guess on which of the writers wants LA change in the first place.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Well, the thing sounded very odd to me, that's probably why I remember it...As a person who writes (scientific) papers for a living, I'm pretty concerned with intellectual ownership and listening somebody acknowledge that they pretty much random wrote the credits in their works, everybody agreeing on that, no less, amazed me a lot! Not that that doesn't happen with scientific papers, but generally who does those things tries to hide it, LOL!

13 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Maybe the academic world is different from the TV industry? I don't know. But I believe the idea of each episode may mainly comes from one or two of the writers. The other writers only contribute their options on details. Also I believe where the main storyline goes is a result of collaboration, or, a negotiation/compromise to be more precise. Like I'm almost sure some of he writers would want to solve the LA problem sooner than the others. That's why we made a guess on which of the writers wants LA change in the first place.

Yep, from what I gather that's basically how the "writers' room" model works in the US (as opposed to, say, the one writer series you can often find in the UK). You have the showrunner and maybe other producers high up the food chain - in this case Lorre/Prady/Molaro - set the general direction they want the show to go and then the whole writers room will work on the stories together - some are more involved in one story than others and as we often find out in interviews the ideas can come from anywhere and anyone. After they have an outline someone is given the task to write the first draft and then they'll tinker on it some more together. Some writers rooms are more collaborative than others but from what I can tell the TBBT team seems to be more on the collaborative side of things.

Speaking of early drafts:

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, April said:

Yeah, those kind of things don't strike me as particularly "arcane" so when you use that phrase I'm always left wondering what the heck you're thinking of, as in: what is the measuring stick here? Which is... "the usual mainstream geeky chatter"??

For example, Stuart and Sheldon debate about which Robin should succeed Batman after his recent comic book death at the time (which is btw DC not Marvel, but I'm starting to see why you think this is "arcane knowledge"...) and that was a pretty popular topic on many geeky sites back then. It's very accessible knowledge and the moment they mention something more obscure they add a somewhat clunky explanation so that the general audience doesn't feel left out. And thus the whole debate with Stuart and Sheldon begins with them explaining to each other that Dick Grayson is the first Robin and later becomes Nightwing, and that there was a second Robin named Jason Todd - which is kinda ridiculous seeing that this is a dialogue between a comic book shop owner and, well, Sheldon.

Point being, the way they handle the geeky stuff has pretty much stays the same over the years. It's mostly whatever is currently a big talking point in the geeky sphere presented in a way that makes it accessible for the general non-geeky audience as well.

I love the smell of pedantry in the morning (sounds bitchy, but I'm being sincere). Ha, I don't know why I thought that that conversation was about the Secret Invasion storyline. I might have been catching up on it at the same time as this episode (which aired some months after the Secret Invasion crossover concluded, apparently). Funny thing, the brain. Looking over the episode description, it's lousy with DC/Vertigo references. That, of all episodes, was not the one to attribute a Marvel reference to! If my argument were hinging on correct attribution there, I'd be looking no-how about now, eh?

Anyway, to the main point as to whether the treatment of nerdery has remained the same: hmmmmm. First off, let me stipulate that my reading of 'arcane' is now, and will always be, influenced by the sorts of pop culture with which I have any familiarity. But my recollection is that there was a time that references, and conversations, were permitted to get detailed enough that lay audiences wouldn't get them. Let's stick with 'the Hofstadter Isotope' for a moment. There's references to specific episodes of ST, and early computer games. I am perfectly willing to believe that if I knew these forms of entertainment better, I might sniff at the superficiality of the knowledge displayed, but at least on the surface there is a sense that this is an episode written by people with an at least passing enjoyment and knowledge of the pop culture they're referring to. The AV Club agrees, apparently: http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/the-big-bang-theory-the-hofstadter-isotope-26600

For what it's worth, I don't think this approach excluded viewers, because I didn't need to watch the shows, or read the comics, or play the games, to get that these characters inhabited a lived-in universe of shared interests.

Compare this to, say, the Viewing Party episode. This is an episode about people who are apparently steeped in the Game of Thrones universe (and yet too good for cosplay), and Sheldon's read the Song of Ice and Fire books. But the entire 'Got parallels' idea seems to hinge on 'GoT=incest and intrigue'. In other words, the idea that anyone would have whose only knowledge of the series comes from a working internet connection and review headlines. Not reviews. Review headlines. I stipulate that I've read the books and watched a lot of the show, so my smell-test for GoT references may be different, but to me there is a qualitative difference between allowing the characters to make specific references that go at least one layer below the surface, and having the character effectively just shout 'Game of Thrones!' 'Star Wars!' at each other. It's the difference between the conversation we're having right now, for example, and if we were just yelling 'Bazinga!' at each other. And I get that you don't want to get that much into the guts of whatever entertainment and risk alienating your audience. But my impression is that, between Seasons two and five, the show trusted its audience a little more, and trusted that they'd get the rough idea without having everything broken down (although quite a lot was, as you say, very clunkily fed to its audience). Nowadays, I think that the references are much lazier, and much broader. The nerdery is, in my view, only a part of that.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.