[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Anita]

2 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

What to you thing Amy's thoughts are going to be

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If he tells her about the kiss that in the moment her boyfriend realized Ramona's true intentions he crossed the country to get to her.if he does't tell her is a different matter, wich is my main problem with the boat kiss by the way

[Cloud Strife]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I find than unnecessarily harsh, but I know tensions are running high.

People were telling me Sheldon swimming in a public pool doesn't make sense because he's germophobic, but how can he handle kissing Amy? A human mouth contains more bacteria than a human anus. Of course he's germophobic, that's what he said, but we don't know where he draws the line.

[spidergirl]

12 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

What to you thing Amy's thoughts are going to be

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Depends on what Sheldon will explain to Amy. As he is always  honest with her ,  she will understand it was not his fault as Ramona kissed him.

[hokie3457]

16 minutes ago, bfm said:

Well, time for more elaboration.

First of all, @kazzie thank you sooo much! You are amazing! Not one but two TRs(/recaps, since you didn't see 23 being taped)! This is so kind of you!

I skimmed through the TRs/recaps (especially 23) because I don't want to spoil everything for myself. I only read Lenny parts thoroughly. 

On 23: I barely read the recap but it sounds nice, though I don't like Lenny being bit players there, especially Penny. I really liked the Leonard-Shledon scene!!! Leonard helping Sheldon and telling him he should be a supportive boyfriend! That's my Leonard there! ♡ IMO, this is a MUCH better use for him then having him fighting with Penny, smuggly refusing her suggestion to work out and slobbing in his underwear playing video games and burping next to her which are all out of the blue and OOC for him. 

The finale sounds like a good, funny episode! I believe I will like it. The whole grouo involved, trying to help the Shamy relationship as a team. I would like to know why Sheldon hadn't proposed until now, though. TPTB sometimes do things without any investigation of the reasons behind them (It's so much worse with Lenny, more on that later on my post). Maybe we will hear more about it in 11×01. Also, why make the proposal into a cliffhanger? Isn't it obvious that she will say yes? They could just finish it with her saying yes...It will be nice to see it in 11×01 but I don't think it will make people wondering...So why pretend it is a cliffhanger when it's not? I might be wrong about her answer but I think there is no reason for her to refuse.

Now: while I don't have a problem with the episode by itself, I do have a problem with it being a finale, given the bit parts Lenny occupy it and the lack of couple scenes or even moments between them; and with the whole treatment of Lenny, since season 8 began and especially in the second half of this season. Lenny are unofficially supporting characters now. The writers barely give them anything and apparently don't waste more than a 30 minutes on coming up with plots/scenes/moments for them. What made it worse in the second half of season 10, to me, was that they had them fighting all the time and now the season ended without resolving it and showing the reasons behind it. It was completely unjustified. Fighting for fighting. I get that marriage doesn't mean "happily ever after" but they didn't give any reason for the escalations of their arguments. Lenny have been a couple for many years and best friend for even more. Why do they suddenly fight all the time? Why can't they communicate like they did before? There may be various reasons. I have suggested some over the last 3.5 months. The writers can easily come up with one (or more) but they chose to just leave it this way. Unresolved, unjustified. I think 10×22 is them trying to pay the minimum mandatory fee to us Lennies and to other viewers who enjoy the couple. It is certainly not enough for me. However, I will watch it and hopefully enjoy it. I won't let the writers ruin it even more for me by making me mad to the point that I miss the little I may enjoy. 

Finally, some comments in the season: I really enjoyed it's first part. There were things I didn't like, even hated (e.g., Leonard bragging about getting the trophy hot chick, what the hell?!), but I generally enjoyed it and even thought they are picking up, continuing the slight recovery from season 8. Then the second half came and I enjoyed it much less. I had episodes that I hated almost entirely, some of the Lenny plots were so bad that they made me unable to enjoy other parts of these episodes (mostly "The Romance Recalibration and "The Collaboration Fluctuation", which are among the top worst TBBT episodes for me). The saving grace for me this year was Howardette, but it didn't make up for the bad stuff, it wasn't even close. Shamy, IMO, had a great season. I am happy for Shammies and I enjoyed some of their moments and was able to understand some of the things that bother people about them (I shared this with Shammies on their thread). I am just not so engaged with them (pun not intended) and I don't like the show being so tremendously unbalanced. Raj...I got nothing. I like Kunal and he cracks me up sometimes with his unique line reading. But this whole arc they had for him lead him nowhere. Maybe he will have some development next year but I wouldn't put money on it (although Raj might be interested in that money). We thought it will lead him somewhere this season and so far we got nothing. Like Penny's career.

Excellent @bfm.  The post of the day.  Thank you so, so much.

[Radar]

1 hour ago, spidergirl said:

Oh I am a cheater then! So a man can not hang out with a woman as a friend? I would have never thought to read something like this in these days of century 21!

Me, too! Wow, I have to tell my husband, hope he won't be mad at me!

Hey, wait! He cheated on me, too, then! He even spend a whole weekend with another woman paddling in Augsburg! This is even worse than a swimming pool, isn't it? 

[Stephen Hawking]

41 minutes ago, Cloud Strife said:

People were telling me Sheldon swimming in a public pool doesn't make sense because he's germophobic

More to the point, Sheldon can't swim, due to his higher than normal bone density.

If he runs too deep a bath, he drowns.

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

Ramona has a spell on Sheldon? LOL

I think so. Sheldonicus obediensus perhaps. Or she puts magic controlling powder in the food she brings him. Whatever.

[bfm]

2 hours ago, wowbagger said:

He went. To a swimming pool. With another person. I know this comment is going to get modded, but I'm morbidly curious: do you see swimming pools as a hotbed of animal lust? Is it the chlorine? You can tell me if it's the chlorine.

As to Sheldon noticing that Ramona is a woman because of her bosoms: Sheldon notices and makes inappropriate remarks about basically everyone. He talks about Amy's nose-hair and calls her a foxy tea-kettle. I think the show is clear that the Cooper Libido is not a tits and arse libido.

Listen, most of us - Shamies included - loathe the Boat Kiss. We think it's shitty writing. We hate the resolution (or lack thereof). We are sympathetic - sometimes through repeated incantations of 'Remember the nice Lennies'. But I'm sorry, in canon all we have to go on is 'there was kissing'. In other words, Leonard has not denied some measure of participation. As opposed to sitting like a block and promptly heading for the great open spaces of New Jersey. And - as sympathetic as I am to the anger of Lennies - my sympathy does not make the two levels of participation equivalent. They're simply not.

 

Agree with the first two paragraphs, not the third. "There was kissing" is Leonard's way of percieving and presenting it. He might think of it as more serious than it actually was. He was also drunk, his memory of it may be somewhat bulrry. Also, "there was kissing" could also mean kissing on her part. In "The Cooper-Nowitzki Theorem" Sheldon says that it seems like he got into some kind of relationship. Imagine we didn't see the whole Ramona thing there on screen. We might have come to think that he accepted a relationship in some manner, however reluctantly. What he said was his perception and presentation. You (impersonal you ) may argue that Leonard and Sheldon are not the same but that's not the point. Every person has subjective perceptions that may differ from the more common perception due to their own characteristics (e.g., poor self-image, relatively lacking romantic experience) and their way of presenting things that may lead to wrong interpretations by others. So I believe it is unfair accusing Leonard of cheating until we see that the incident was indeed very different than Sheldon's and included reciprocation.

Edited April 26, 2017 by bfm

[shamyyellow]

2 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

More to the point, Sheldon can't swim, due to his higher than normal bone density.

If he runs too deep a bath, he drowns.

I don't really get the swimming thing, but they could've been in the shallow end. She did say she was proud of him for putting his face in the water. Once again, I don't understand the choice, but it doesn't necessarily betray past episodes. It could just be undocumented progress, like Amy teaching him how to drive.

[joyceraye]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

Me, too! Wow, I have to tell my husband, hope he won't be mad at me!

Hey, wait! He cheated on me, too, then! He even spend a whole weekend with another woman paddling in Augsburg! This is even worse than a swimming pool, isn't it? 

Depends on the type of canoe. If they were C1s or K1s fine, but if they were C or K2s then I'm afraid ........

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Depends on the type of canoe. If they were C1s or K1s fine, but if they were C or K2s then I'm afraid ........

K1! Thank you! You just saved our marriage!  

[jenafan]

40 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Depends on what Sheldon will explain to Amy. As he is always  honest with her ,  she will understand it was not his fault as Ramona kissed him.

I don't know if Sheldon ever told Amy what he witnessed.  Given a kiss Amy accepted from another man was what caused Sheldon to turn away from a proposal, I find it ironic that a kiss he rejected from another woman led to a proposal.

Whatever the events that led up to Sheldon's actions, Amy is not going to risk doing or saying anything that may cause him to get cold feet again.   That ring has long been overdue for an appearance, and she is sure asbheck ready to wear it proudly and rub it in Ramona's face if ever given the opportunity.

What I love about all of this, is that it has been made clear that both Sheldon and Amy have other potential suitors.  They are with each other because they want to be, not because no other woman is willing to ride on Sheldon's train or tolerate him or no other man likes Amy's brains and vintage style.  

[Stephen Hawking]

11 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

It could just be undocumented progress, like Amy teaching him how to drive.

I don't see how she could teach him to have lower bone density.

[Gbb]

15 minutes ago, jenafan said:

What I love about all of this, is that it has been made clear that both Sheldon and Amy have other potential suitors.  They are with each other because they want to be, not because no other woman is willing to ride on Sheldon's train or tolerate him or no other man likes Amy's brains and vintage style.  

Thanks for this.

[Cloud Strife]

45 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

More to the point, Sheldon can't swim, due to his higher than normal bone density.

If he runs too deep a bath, he drowns.

People with higher bone density can swim. 

[Chrismo]

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

Oh I am a cheater then! So a man can not hang out with a woman as a friend? I would have never thought to read something like this in these days of century 21!

So if I'm understanding correctly back in season 6 when Alex asked Leonard out to dinner to discuss the Kip Thorn lecture that would have been okay for Leonard to accept? 

[bfm]

I'm a little curious about the vacant apartment on the third floor (3A I guess). Apparentely the tenent(s) moved out. I would care for it if it only appeared in the scene when they mistakenly enter and get scared but it appeared twice (or at least the 3rd floor hallway appeared twice with the characters not only passing by). Do you guys think they will do something with it? Maybe have Raj move in after his financial situation gets better? Maybe Shamy move to have a larger apartment? Maybe new interesting neighbors? 

@kazzie, do you have any more information about 3A? Did they mention new neighbors coming soon?

[shamyyellow]

35 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I don't see how she could teach him to have lower bone density.

That was Sheldon excusing the fact that he can't swim with some cocky, "look how special I am" reasoning. Even if he had a higher than average bone density, he still wouldn't drown in a bathtub or a swimming pool. At least not for that reason.

[Enrico Fermi]

5 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I will be around ,and sure there are a few things to discuss ,but by not having any plots for Lenny at all in the finale there is sadly nothing to discuss concerning Lenny. I must also say that I find it totally unrealistic that Amy would say no to Sheldon ,so there is not much to discuss there either.

There's always rounds 373 through 402 of debating whether or not Raj raped Penny in the season 4 finale.

[Anita]

34 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

So if I'm understanding correctly back in season 6 when Alex asked Leonard out to dinner to discuss the Kip Thorn lecture that would have been okay for Leonard to accept? 

I don't remember if at that moment Leonard acknowleged Alex feelings. If not, it had been ok,. Altought maybe a dinner date is considered a more intimate setting for a romantic date, so a mcdonalds dinner OK, a French restaurant with candles and music, maybe not. It's lenny's first dinner alone, she didn't know she was in a romantic date, so to me that was not their first date

[Carm6773]

3 hours ago, Anita said:

What?? If you go to the cinema, to a park, to lunch with a friend,  a male friend in my case being your intention just enjoy a friend company is cheating?. I am a cheater 

I've gone to a concert with a male friend simply because his wife (who happens to be my best friend) and my husband don't like that genre, but we do.  Before she met her husband, my best friend bought some dancing lessons; my husband (who loves to dance) was her partner during the lessons because she broke up with the guy she was dating when she bought the lessons.  We're all cheating?!

[Chrismo]

28 minutes ago, Anita said:

I don't remember if at that moment Leonard acknowleged Alex feelings. If not, it had been ok,. Altought maybe a dinner date is considered a more intimate setting for a romantic date, so a mcdonalds dinner OK, a French restaurant with candles and music, maybe not. It's lenny's first dinner alone, she didn't know she was in a romantic date, so to me that was not their first date

But as pointed out earlier Sheldon freaked over It.He pulled out all the STD books.  Leonard at the time  did not know Alex's feelings for him. Its similar to me in regards the guys didn't know what was going on. Though you would have thought Sheldon learned from Alex's affection for Leonard. To me though there was a couple differences. Alex invited Penny along for the original lecture. Another difference was Alex and Leonard have a common interest in physics. I see swimming as not a common interest of Ramona and Sheldon.

16 minutes ago, Carm6773 said:

I've gone to a concert with a male friend simply because his wife (who happens to be my best friend) and my husband don't like that genre, but we do.  Before she met her husband, my best friend bought some dancing lessons; my husband (who loves to dance) was her partner during the lessons because she broke up with the guy she was dating when she bought the lessons.  We're all cheating?!

The thing is Ramona is not Sheldon's friend.

[SRAM]

4 hours ago, kazzie said:

Just a few notes on the finale..

- Swimming, The way Sheldon got over the initial fear of being in a pool was just imagining it as a huge bathtub. He then freaked out at other people being in his bathtub

- Sheldon being Sheldon was oblivious to her advances. He mentions to Penny that he didn't even notice Ramona was a female until he saw her in her bathing suit which was highlighting her bosoms. (Now y'all take that as you want, But I see that as Sheldon not defining people as a gender)

- Amy is to be at Princeton for 3-4 months

- Sheldon DID NOT Kiss Ramona back. As I said, He was not inviting of it. He was sitting at his desk talking about how he couldn't be involved with Ramona when she was standing over him and she planted one on him. It was unexpected, uninvited, Sheldon didn't reciprocate, He didn't close his eyes and I'm pretty sure when he pulled. It lasted around 2-3 seconds. This is NOT cheating and the playback gave no intention of cheating what so ever. IF both parties participate, Its cheating. And trust me.. Personal here but I've been cheated on and I know. 

- At this point, All we know that Amy knows about Ramona being around, But she doesn't know that she kissed him. 

 

I'm happy to agree with you if you join me in saying Leonard didn't cheat on Penny.  Leonard lead off his confession by reminding Penny that he told her about the parties and DRINKING, then he told Penny he found himself kissing Mandy and when he realized what was happening he STOPPED it.  Mandy was so drunk she didn't even remember it when he talked to her in the cafeteria, neither of them were willing participants, it was all too much booze and bad judgement, not cheating.  Also, Leonard didn't tell Penny because he thought she would leave him, that makes perfect sense to me, Leonard has always been terrified of loosing Penny and she does have a temper and overreacts.

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

The opinion among some seems to be that if Sheldon cheated, then Leonard's boat kiss didn't happen. Because that's how that works. The Cooper Wang erases history.

I love your Sheldon devotion, but explain how someone with Sheldon's perfect memory, who made sure Leonard's girlfriend knew about Alex hitting on him because she asked him to go to an innocent lecture or dinner, now doesn't see that same situation with Ramona.  Yes there is a difference, Leonard didn't go on the innocent date with Alex, but Sheldon did go on the date with Ramona, the date alone is cheating.

but I'm a fair person and actually like Shamy, so just admit Leonard didn't cheat on Penny, and I'll say Sheldon didn't cheat on Amy.

[SRAM]

3 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Well to be honest it people who don't like Sheldon who are suggesting that.  I am not the biggest fan of Sheldon but no he did not cheat. For n tinhg, he did not response in return.  But even then it be debatable

I still say Leonard didn't cheat either.  

I agree, Leonard didn't cheat and Sheldon didn't cheat, because cheating involves intent and neither of them had intent.  But that said there are a lot of Leonard haters that want to label Leonard as cheating on Penny, so if they want to do that then I have the same right to label Sheldon because his cheating happened the same way. 

[kazzie]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

I'm a little curious about the vacant apartment on the third floor (3A I guess). Apparentely the tenent(s) moved out. I would care for it if it only appeared in the scene when they mistakenly enter and get scared but it appeared twice (or at least the 3rd floor hallway appeared twice with the characters not only passing by). Do you guys think they will do something with it? Maybe have Raj move in after his financial situation gets better? Maybe Shamy move to have a larger apartment? Maybe new interesting neighbors? 

@kazzie, do you have any more information about 3A? Did they mention new neighbors coming soon?

Nothing mentioned at all.. It was just empty. We don't know why or how long.

17 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I'm happy to agree with you if you join me in saying Leonard didn't cheat on Penny.  Leonard lead off his confession by reminding Penny that he told her about the parties and DRINKING, then he told Penny he found himself kissing Mandy and when he realized what was happening he STOPPED it.  Mandy was so drunk she didn't even remember it when he talked to her in the cafeteria, neither of them were willing participants, it was all too much booze and bad judgement, not cheating.  Also, Leonard didn't tell Penny because he thought she would leave him, that makes perfect sense to me, Leonard has always been terrified of loosing Penny and she does have a temper and overreacts.

I love your Sheldon devotion, but explain how someone with Sheldon's perfect memory, who made sure Leonard's girlfriend knew about Alex hitting on him because she asked him to go to an innocent lecture or dinner, now doesn't see that same situation with Ramona.  Yes there is a difference, Leonard didn't go on the innocent date with Alex, but Sheldon did go on the date with Ramona, the date alone is cheating.

but I'm a fair person and actually like Shamy, so just admit Leonard didn't cheat on Penny, and I'll say Sheldon didn't cheat on Amy.

I think thats a fair comment. We have only heard of what happened with Leonard and nothing on screen.. He says he stopped it which to me seems he did the right thing in the end. He could of maybe been honest about it sooner however.. But i will agree that wasn't cheating.