[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Tensor]

1 minute ago, Judith said:

I had everything Leonard has said about the kiss in mind when I posted my opinion and I feel very confident about it. I have zero desire to talk about this with you so you'll have to make do with my previous post.

I had everything Leonard has said about the kiss in mind when I posted my opinion also, and I feel very confident about it.  No one said you had to talk about it.  But, I will point out that in that last post, you said "WE" know everything from Leonard's words".  When in actuality, you may think one thing from his words, with others think something different.  Doesn't make either you or the others right, simply because there isn't enough information given to definitely say one way or another.  

[batman75]

Hello, 

So I don't want to rain into the happiness that I imagine Shamy fans are feeling.... I honestly thought that they will wait more to get them engaged. Who knows exactly what would happen at the start of next season. 

But I also think that I wish that these kind of interviews would give more peace. I love Sheldon but I also think that Leonard is not this bad character that they like to blame everything too. Particularly this is what bothers me with the situation, we didn't know about this situation (the kiss) till Lenny got married. But this was the decision of the writers. So why act like something that came out of the blue is part of the character that we as an audience know and love so much? 

Now, why is it that these special moments get marked by "cheating"? Some of us might agree is cheating, others might agree that is not. But I feel they could create drama with other actions. 

I really hope for the next two seasons to bring humor without harming the characters and their growth. In all honesty, if we leave Sheldon as a innocent bystander, then either that puts Amy in a babysitting job or that means that Sheldon cannot be in the relationship. This is counterproductive for the growth of his character. So I really hope that the writers react properly to this and accept that the drama they create, needs to be cohesive out of respect for us fans that love these characters and follow this growth. 

Sad to see another season ending. Excited for the next two seasons. Still love the show. But we can always grow for the better right? 

Edited May 12, 2017 by batman75

[djsurrey]

On 11/05/2017 at 0:09 AM, Nogravitasatall said:

Thanks. That's a point, but I wasn't thinking of 8.24 as being predictive.  In 10.24 they again drove a cliffhanger with the idea of another woman as a threat to a relationship. Isn't that generally similar? It struck me they are repeating the same trick. Not a novelty - so more predictable, based on past performance.

And a less plausible threat too, because Sheldon.

Sheldon was treating Ramona like one of the guys. He did not believe Ramona had a romantic interest when Penny suggested it. After the kiss Sheldon immediately got out of town, went to Amy as directly as possible and proposed. 

When the Leonard kiss happened it was not even shown. We as the audience did not know about it until two years after it happened. 

I don't see the circumstance as remotely similar. Not yet anyway. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by djsurrey

[Gbb]

My favorite things from tonight's ep:

• Shamy's nerd-flirting over grammar! 
• Penny's adorable top in the first scene with Bernie. It looked great on her. Her stomach is ridiculously flat. 
• Penny and Bernie having Amy's back. 
• "I've been smacking that ketchup bottle for a long time."
• The hilarious walk down the stairs! (One of the funniest BBT scenes in recent memory to me). 
• Sheldon just radiating calm on his way to propose.
• The proposal

 

[vonmar]

From Mayim's Groknation 

“THE BIG BANG THEORY” SEASON 10 FINALE: BEHIND THE SCENES WITH MAYIM (SPOILERS)

Wow. Just wow. I know. Right?!

Tonight’s season 10 finale of TBBT sure left me with my jaw on the floor when I first read it. (I’m curious how you all felt seeing it…)

I had no idea this was coming. Like, none. After last week’s episode where they sent Amy to Princeton, I was thinking, “What!?” And then as I was reading this episode and Ramona is getting all cozy with Sheldon, I was thinking, “WHAT!?” and I had no clue how the episode was going to end.

Honestly, I didn’t know we were going to go here now. Our writers and producers know FAR better than I what should happen on this show; don’t get me wrong. But we had such a big year already: Penny and Leonard got married again (!) and we welcomed the Howard/Bernadette baby…that’s a lot.

It was emotional seeing Jim down on one knee. First of all, that’s just such a romantic lovely gesture that many of us never experience and it’s just sweet. And second of all, to have Sheldon in such a tender vulnerable position is just a lot. There were more than a few wet eyes during rehearsal and run-through for that final scene.

And as for what it’s like watching Riki Lindhome swoop in on Sheldon. I can’t lie: I felt a twinge of envy! As the actor who plays Amy, I feel like part of me is anchored to Sheldon because he has been my character’s beloved for so many years. Seeing Sheldon getting attention from a woman felt like it must have been empowering for him (if he were able to be conscious of it!), but when she kissed him – every time in rehearsal – I felt a twinge of discomfort! I know that might sound silly and I respect Riki as an actor tremendously, but I can’t help but feel like something that was ‘mine’ was being imposed upon! We’ll see if that continues next season; I have no clue if it will!

And please don’t ask me if I know what Amy’s going to respond in the season opener of season 11…because I don’t know! Your guess is as good as mine! Sure, I have opinions and ideas… as an actor and a writer, I could see this playing out several ways. But that’s not my job right now. My job is to wait through the summer to see what our writers decide….

I’m going to let the end of this season wash over me like we have to sometimes let life wash over us…with patience, gratitude, and appreciation for how very far we have come. As for what comes next, God only knows. And maybe Chuck Lorre. 

 

[No Regrets]

I love Mayim. She clearly feels very protective of Shamy. That's sweet. 

[Nogravitasatall]

1 hour ago, Judith said:

That's a bit difficult to happen since in Sheldon's mind his only option has always been Amy and he's never strayed away from her - he was oblivious to Ramona pursuing him and was shocked by the kiss and didn't participate. Leonard, well, that's another story.

Yes. Leonard's story goes: He told his would-be spouse- she eventually forgave him and then they lived happily ever after - with Sheldon in the next room then across the hall because he took another two years to come to grips with his deep passion for Amy. Or something. 

I'm sad the writers put the characters through a bit of a wringer totally unnecessarily for a cheap cliffhanger - but hey they haven't wrapped yet - don't worry, they might still split up. Huzzah!

And they have two more seasons to drag out the Shamy wedding if they want. Huzzah too! 

(Still tin hatted)

29 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Sheldon was treating Ramona like one of the guys. He did not believe Ramona had a romantic interest when Penny suggested it. After the kiss Sheldon immediately got out of town, went to Amy as directly as possible and proposed. 

When the Leonard kiss happened it was not even shown. We as the audience did not know about it until two tears after it happened. 

I don't see the circumstance as remotely similar. Not yet anyway. 

Can you agree they are cliffhangers? At least that?

[djsurrey]

8 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

 

Can you agree they are cliffhangers? At least that?

Yes!

So was 4.24.
Big difference. This is a pleasant cliffhanger!

Edited May 12, 2017 by djsurrey

[luminous]

 

[Judith]

1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

You're reading Sheldon's mind now? Well ok. 

I've got my aluminium hat on so I can't. 

No, I'm watching the show and reach conclusions according to canon. Sheldon has been loyal to Amy for the entirety of their relationship and as we saw in this episode 1) he was oblivious to Ramona's advances and when Penny put the idea in his mind he straight up asked her about it and 2) he was so shocked by the kiss that he couldn't even stop it.

He didn't enjoy the kiss (unless you think his bulging eyes mean otherwise), he didn't have any options to reflect on because there was no option other than Amy on his mind anyway and he didn't need to go back to the person he loved because he never strayed away from her.

I know, I know - damn boat kiss, but what can you do?

 

[Tensor]

7 minutes ago, Judith said:

No, I'm watching the show and reach conclusions according to canon. Sheldon has been loyal to Amy for the entirety of their relationship and as we saw in this episode 1) he was oblivious to Ramona's advances and when Penny put the idea in his mind he straight up asked her about it and 2) he was so shocked by the kiss that he couldn't even stop it.

I thought he just didn't want to stop it. 

7 minutes ago, Judith said:

He didn't enjoy the kiss (unless you think his bulging eyes mean otherwise), he didn't have any options to reflect on because there was no option other than Amy on his mind anyway and he didn't need to go back to the person he loved because he never strayed away from her.

That is an assumption on your part.  I can't say if he enjoyed the kiss or not.  If he didn't enjoy it, he could have stopped it, he participated long enough.

 

[3ku11]

Both Leonard and Sheldon based on information. Visual and Auditary. Seemed to enjoy the attention. I wish the show went a different way about Sheldon proposing. Having some woman come on to him, and him participate. Leading him to propose. I don't know wish they went another way. Feels like they are cheapning it some how. 

[Chiany]

6 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Both Leonard and Sheldon based on information. Visual and Auditary. Seemed to enjoy the attention. I wish the show went a different way about Sheldon proposing. Having some woman come on to him, and him participate. Leading him to propose. I don't know wish they went another way. Feels like they are cheapning it some how. 

This I agree on, wish the writers had come up with a better story leading up to the proposal. But still it could have been a lot worse (looks at Lenny's wedding for example).

[veejay]

From USA TODAY:

'Big Bang Theory' season finale: Did Sheldon really pop the question?'

Molaro, the top-rated sitcom’s head writer, says he’s not fully locked in on how Amy will respond when Bang returns for an eleventh season in the fall.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/05/11/big-bang-theory-season-10-finale-recap-interview-jim-parsons/101557248/

 

[mirs1]

From the Hollywood Reporter

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/big-bang-theory-season-10-finale-sheldons-proposal-explained-season-11-preview-1001460

And from EW

http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/11/big-bang-theory-finale-proposal-spoilers-season-11/

Edited May 12, 2017 by mirs1

[djsurrey]

25 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I thought he just didn't want to stop it. 

I can see where one would get that interpretation. I believe that was done for suspense. Then Sheldon walks out.

Does he reminisce about the kiss when he gets on the plane? No, he watches Spongebob.

[Nogravitasatall]

1 hour ago, Judith said:

No, I'm watching the show and reach conclusions according to canon. Sheldon has been loyal to Amy for the entirety of their relationship and as we saw in this episode 1) he was oblivious to Ramona's advances and when Penny put the idea in his mind he straight up asked her about it and 2) he was so shocked by the kiss that he couldn't even stop it.

He didn't enjoy the kiss (unless you think his bulging eyes mean otherwise), he didn't have any options to reflect on because there was no option other than Amy on his mind anyway and he didn't need to go back to the person he loved because he never strayed away from her.

I know, I know - damn boat kiss, but what can you do?

 

Can't do much really. Bitch about it online is about all. They write the show the way they want.  Lucky L/P supporters.  What a reward. I can say Sheldon has been fortunate in how his friends have nurtured him at their own expense. Nice of them. Can't say I can share the joy about Sheldon. Nothing in it for me. But that's ok. You enjoy. 

PS: you seem to be more affected by the boat kiss than I feel it warrants. I try to point out it doesn't make Leonard evil or destructive of the entire world around him. He and Penny suffered. Alone. I do try to point out that Sheldon doesn't tiptoe around dropping bouquets of daisies and making anyone's life better than his own.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by Nogravitasatall
Afterthoughts

[djsurrey]

Mayim is on Steven Colbert now talking about TBBT: now in my location.

Edited May 12, 2017 by djsurrey

[snapepans]

3 hours ago, No Regrets said:

The thing is this: our perspective doesn't matter. I haven't watched it (nor am I going to), but even IF the kiss was too long, even IF Sheldon was shown to maybe flirt a little with Ramona, this is not what the writers intend to come across. From their perspective, Sheldon didn't do anything wrong, so don't expect any drama to stem from this. There won't be any. (Yay for the Shamy fans! You know I was rooting for ya'll.)

Yes, you are totally right. 

After reading the TR of 1024, I already got the feeling that "the writers couldn't stress enough that Sheldon was NOT a cheater", "Ramona's actions and the kiss made Sheldon the victim".

I watched this episode, I think the kiss was indeed longer than I've expected, but I don't think Sheldon was being flirty with Ramona. In fact, as an Amy fan, I can't believe I'm saying this, but, except for the dialogue and the kiss in the office scene, I even think that Ramona was NOT THAT INTO Sheldon, let alone trying to steal him knowing he already got a girlfriend. When Ramona talked about Amy with the gang, she wasn't resentful, when she said hello to Amy in the Skype call, she was friendly.

To me, the whole interactions between Sheldon and Ramona were really like two friends (except for the kiss, of course). Hence I really think the situation was far-fetched.

So, in order to "sell this idea", the kiss was "necessary", and the writers happily threw Ramona under the bus, but that was the purpose of Ramona's reappearance in this episode, so I'm not surprised.

---------------------------------------

I really love the three guys (and Stuart)'s interactions, and Bernie and Penny's lines were really funny, too. Amy's "New Jersey way of talking" was so sassy, I love that. The stair scene was brilliant, and like Sheldon said, it was indeed like Mario Cart. I do think when Amy opened the door seeing Sheldon holding the ring, she was indeed shocked. No doubt. I hope in 1101, they will talk about the situation, and then Amy will say yes. 

All in all, I think this episode was really funny, I really didn't expect that.  And you see, that was the real surprise, to me.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Chiany said:

This I agree on, wish the writers had come up with a better story leading up to the proposal. But still it could have been a lot worse (looks at Lenny's wedding for example).

Yes, I completely agree. I too wish they'd come up with a better proporal, to me, they could totally skip the proporal and just get married in the city hall. But, considering the show's "history", and the writers "sense of humor", this proposal could've been A LOT worse, indeed.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by snapepans
add something

[shamyyellow]

11 minutes ago, snapepans said:

I watched this episode, I think the kiss was indeed longer than I've expected, but I don't think Sheldon was being flirty with Ramona. In fact, as an Amy fan, I can't believe I'm saying this, but, except for the dialogue and the kiss in the office scene, I even think that Ramona was NOT THAT INTO Sheldon, let alone trying to steal him knowing he already got a girlfriend. When Ramona talked about Amy with the gang, she wasn't resentful, when she said hello to Amy in the Skype call, she was friendly.

To me, the whole interactions between Sheldon and Ramona were really like two friends (except for the kiss, of course). Hence I really think the situation was far-fetched.

So, in order to "sell this idea", the kiss was "necessary", and the writers happily threw Ramona under the bus, but that was the purpose of Ramona's reappearance in this episode, so I'm not surprised.

I saw what you did, but I got something completely different out of it. 

Yes, Ramona was friendly to Amy and she acted very much like a friend more than anything else. However, since her only motives were that of the writers, I think that had more to do with justifying Sheldon's inability to correctly assess her intentions. She was brought in to have romantic feelings for Sheldon and challenge his relationship with Amy, but had she been too flirtatious or too vindictive, it would no longer be believable when Sheldon was oblivious to it. Since his innocence is the most important player in this game, they had no choice but to water down her intentions. I also think that's why a kiss was necessary since it was the only thing she did that really overstepped her bounds.

I have to say, the writers certainly achieved a good balance. As someone who loves Sheldon and Amy, Ramona's actions were bold enough to make me flinch while also being innocent enough for me to justify. It was important for viewers to worry without becoming completely fed up and outraged. I know there are the sensitive few who will be anyway, but the majority seemed thrilled with how the episode ended and excited for S11.

Job well done, I think!

[snapepans]

6 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

I saw what you did, but I got something completely different out of it. 

Yes, Ramona was friendly to Amy and she acted very much like a friend more than anything else. However, since her only motives were that of the writers, I think that had more to do with justifying Sheldon's inability to correctly assess her intentions. She was brought in to have romantic feelings for Sheldon and challenge his relationship with Amy, but had she been too flirtatious or too vindictive, it would no longer be believable when Sheldon was oblivious to it. Since his innocence is the most important player in this game, they had no choice but to water down her intentions. I also think that's why a kiss was necessary since it was the only thing she did that really overstepped her bounds.

I have to say, the writers certainly achieved a good balance. As someone who loves Sheldon and Amy, Ramona's actions were bold enough to make me flinch while also being innocent enough for me to justify. It was important for viewers to worry without becoming completely fed up and outraged. I know there are the sensitive few who will be anyway, but the majority seemed thrilled with how the episode ended and excited for S11.

Job well done, I think!

Thank you for discussing this with me. 

I love your way of thinking, and the 2 bold parts, I completely agree.

You see, after watching this episode, on one hand, obviously I'm not happy about this long kiss, but, on the other hand, I kinda felt sorry for Ramona as a character, because she was just a tool for the writers to use for the proporal, and the whole situation was really too artificial for my taste.

And, I agree with you, I think the writers found some kind of balance in this episode.

[Jonny]

I had similar feelings that she didn't appear really really into him but one moment changed that for me and had me swearing all sorts of nasty stuff at the screen about her.

That was the Skype scene in 4B with Amy/Ramona/Sheldon, did you see that moment when the camera panned back to Ramona?That mischievous look on her face? Ugh!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jonny

[April]

9 hours ago, shamyyellow said:

Or he could just be a straight, metrosexual man with a lot of issues to work out before he finds a woman that won't be turned off by him. 

I understand the speculation that Raj might be bisexual/might fair better with men, but in real life, you either are or you aren't. You can't just decide to be bisexual or gay because it didn't work out with women. I think it's insanely unrealistic that a guy like Raj would suddenly get along better (physically and emotionally) with a man when he's always wanted a healthy, loving relationship with a woman. Especially when his lust for women has often come first.

Since the problem has never been that his sex life is horrible or that he just wasn't emotionally interested in the women he dated, it makes more sense for the writers to do what they've been doing all season: having him make a list of things about himself that need fixing so he can become a better person for whoever is out there for him. I personally want Raj to work on himself before finding the woman he's been dreaming of because since the very first season, that's what he's been looking for. I've asked myself if any of the problems Raj has had with keeping a women would've kept a man either... and the answer is no. They would've left him too.

That said, if the writers do go for a storyline where Raj dates men, I hope (like other's have already stated) that they give us genuine answers and a story that makes sense of such a serious topic. Some straight men and women lie about being bisexual/gay. Gay men and women sometimes lie about being bisexual. Bisexual men and women sometimes lie about being straight/gay. It happens when you feel like who you are isn't what other people want you to be. If the writer's decide to go that way with Raj, it really would be best to be very careful in crafting that story instead of just throwing it out there for shits and giggles. 

Sorry to drag this up when the discussion has already moved on. Just a few notes:

I don't think Raj has to have a boyfriend cause of course he can just be a straight metrosexual man who has issues. And if they go down the route of what you describe with him sorting himself out to finally be able to have a good relationship with a woman then by all means. No argument from me here.

But what I was saying was in case they do go down the boyfriend route I wouldn't find it particularly unbelievable either if the guy is a good fit and Raj figures out that maybe he's a bit bi after all. As said, sexuality is a spectrum and not everybody knows immediately how they fit into it. It doesn't even have anything to do with lying to yourself or whatever. Sometimes it's just a question of meeting the right person. If done right I wouldn't think of it much different than, say, Sheldon denying any interest in dating and romance all his life until he met Amy - and look where he is now! Sometimes you just figure these things out later in life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bfm]

7 hours ago, Enrico Fermi said:

What Molaro said about Lenny reminds me of how the producers saw Howardette for many years.  He has nothing definitive to say because he doesn't know and they're the utility players at the moment (like the baby question was asked about Howardette for years and always received a vague answer).  Before Lenny got married, Howardette was what they are now: the married couple who make cracks about each other more than they hug or kiss.  With the exception of when Howard's mother died, this was them until TPTB knocked-up Bernie and gave them a plot.  This current attitude about Lenny strikes me as laziness and failure to consider any type of plot for couples outside of marriage and babies.  This is obvious from the glacial pace at which they have addressed Penny's career dissatisfaction.  Shamy gets all the development because they are way down the totem pole in terms of achieving significant relationship milestones.

Totally agree until the last line, because I think Shamy get attention because Sheldon is the writres' golden boy.

Lenny has turned into former Howardette, "The Romance Recalibration" is a great exmaple of that, Leonard was not Leonard there but Howard. Then they had Raj interfering with their relationship just like he did when he lived with Howardette for a few days. These writers just can't write a fun married couple.

[shamyyellow]

6 minutes ago, April said:

Sometimes it's just a question of meeting the right person. If done right I wouldn't think of it much different than, say, Sheldon denying any interest in dating and romance all his life until he met Amy - and look where he is now! Sometimes you just figure these things out later in life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Right, I agree in theory. The problem I see with introducing bisexuality into Raj's storyline is the amount of time they will realistically spend on it and how many seasons are left to do it right. It took a season and a half for Sheldon to ask Amy to be his girlfriend, 4 seasons for him to kiss her, 5 seasons for him to say 'I love you', 6 seasons for them to have sex, and 7 season for them to live together/propose. They took the time and crafted this amazing evolution/love story... but they won't do that for Raj. They have been poking at Raj's "gay" side since the very beginning but have always emphasized that he's straight and very metro.

There is just no way they can gracefully and believably convince this audience that Raj is bisexual after all this time, so it's better that they continue to "fix him" for the woman of his dreams. I always thought it would be wonderful if he fell for someone far more average and poor than his original standards would've imagined for himself. Something as simple as that would be a great storyline for Raj and suitable for the time they have left. I still have no idea why Isabella was a one episode girlfriend.