[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Jonny]

4 minutes ago, bfm said:

Totally agree until the last line, because I think Shamy get attention because Sheldon is the writres' golden boy.

Lenny has turned into former Howardette, "The Romance Recalibration" is a great exmaple of that, Leonard was not Leonard there but Howard. Then they had Raj interfering with their relationship just like he did when he lived with Howardette for a few days. These writers just can't write a fun married couple.

I have enjoyed Howardette from start to present (with a massive leap in my admiration for them this season). I really don't think they have ever had problems writing for them. They have always been the couple of firsts, more advanced along the story path than any couple. I think it just works all the time with them, a perfect meshing of characters.

[shamyyellow]

1 minute ago, Jonny said:

I have enjoyed Howardette from start to present (with a massive leap in my admiration for them this season). I really don't think they have ever had problems writing for them. They have always been the couple of firsts, more advanced along the story path than any couple. I think it just works all the time with them, a perfect meshing of characters.

Right? I don't understand how anybody thinks the writers are incapable of writing a fun married couple when Howardette have been married since S6 and are responsible for some of the sweetest moments on the show. I understand that this thought process stems from how poorly Lenny has developed, but the inability they have to write fun marriages is very specific to them. 

[April]

8 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

Right, I agree in theory. The problem I see with introducing bisexuality into Raj's storyline is the amount of time they will realistically spend on it and how many seasons are left to do it right. It took a season and a half for Sheldon to ask Amy to be his girlfriend, 4 seasons for him to kiss her, 5 seasons for him to say 'I love you', 6 seasons for them to have sex, and 7 season for them to live together/propose. They took the time and crafted this amazing evolution/love story... but they won't do that for Raj. They have been poking at Raj's "gay" side since the very beginning but have always emphasized that he's straight and very metro.

There is just no way they can gracefully and believably convince this audience that Raj is bisexual after all this time, so it's better that they continue to "fix him" for the woman of his dreams. I always thought it would be wonderful if he fell for someone far more average and poor than his original standards would've imagined for himself. Something as simple as that would be a great storyline for Raj and suitable for the time they have left. I still have no idea why Isabella was a one episode girlfriend.

Yeah, that's a fair point and I'm not denying that they'd need to handle this with a lot of care - which would be my first worry. But then again looking at all his past relationships with women that would also be my worry when they introduce a new female love interest. ugh

[No Regrets]

4 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

Right? I don't understand how anybody thinks the writers are incapable of writing a fun married couple when Howardette have been married since S6 and are responsible for some of the sweetest moments on the show. I understand that this thought process stems from how poorly Lenny has developed, but the inability they have to write fun marriages is very specific to them. 

I agree. And that makes the whole thing even more infuriating.

[bfm]

5 hours ago, No Regrets said:

Allow me to translate this for you: "How dare you even suggest-- I mean it's S h e l d o n. My pwetty, pwetty Sheldon. He has never done anything wrong in his life, ever. In fact, did you know that even his farts are known to cure cancer? Well, they do. Now Leonard on the other hand, now he's a bad dude. Seriously, he's bad news. Not like Sheldon. Sheldon is beauty. Sheldon is wonder. If I could find a way to have Sheldon literally wipe his own ass with Leonard, believe you me, I would."

You're welcome.

100 likes for that! So true! Molaro's pathetic response shows that all or speculations about TPTB's opinion of Lenny and Sheldon were correct, not even a bit exaggerated!!! They hate Leonard, think Penny is just this trophy blonde who learned a little better about judging by looks and think Sheldon is the greatest man on earth. Just UGH. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by bfm

[Jonny]

10 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

Right? I don't understand how anybody thinks the writers are incapable of writing a fun married couple when Howardette have been married since S6 and are responsible for some of the sweetest moments on the show. I understand that this thought process stems from how poorly Lenny has developed, but the inability they have to write fun marriages is very specific to them. 

Off the top of my head I can't really think of a big storyline involving them that I have thought 'I really don't like this'. I can say that about some Shamy storylines, Lenny ones, Raj and individual storylines. Howardette? I think their storylines have been very consistent in a good way throughout.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jonny

[bfm]

5 hours ago, Tensor said:

Actually, we don't know the full Leonard story.  For all we know, Leonard reacted as surprised as Sheldon.  

Yes, even if Molaro says he was participating more than Sheldon, for all we know it could have been a fraction a second when he was drunk and confused, not sure about what was happening and recieving a kiss so he returned that for a few milliseconds in sort of a reflex and than stopped it shaking his head in surprise when he realized what was happenning. Bottom line is there is no point arguing about this because we don't know what happened and we'll probably never know, unless Molaro wants to use it to elevate Sheldon, then we'll have Leonard probably going to Mandy kissing her passionately. 

[3ku11]

41 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

Right? I don't understand how anybody thinks the writers are incapable of writing a fun married couple when Howardette have been married since S6 and are responsible for some of the sweetest moments on the show. I understand that this thought process stems from how poorly Lenny has developed, but the inability they have to write fun marriages is very specific to them. 

Sweetest moments of the show? Other then the crib scene. I can't think of any. Besides that is not a function of bad writing. The show has prooven ovverall they suck at writing married couples. No one said anything about Howardette being written as a fun married couple. Seeing they are the only married couple to compare too. Its too vague to take a gauge. Problem for me post 6.24. Is how unorganic alot of the developments, or lack of developmetns are in this show. The biggest change for me personally. Has been the deconstruction of Pennys character. She used to be light hearted, Free Spiritied, Messy e.t.c. She is now bored, domesticed, and just a housewife. I do agree with the Romance Reacalibration being akin to more Howardette then Lenny. But the tptb have been phoning it in with Lenny for four seasons now. This is not just a gripe. It is a fundemental issue with the show. And no Lenny is shifting blame by saying Sheldon cheated. Seeing the past two years on this forum.

Posters have been divided on the Leonard boat kiss thing. I see this being a similar thing. I personally think Sheldon cheated. He participated in a kiss, even if it was not initiated. We hear Leonard did not initiate the kiss. But particpated. Difference being. Leonard was drunk, it was offscreen, and he has more experienced. The point is at the end of day is INTENTION. Neither Leonard or Sheldon INTENDED to cheat. But based on what Moloro said, TPTB clearly intended to make Leonard be the bad guy HE was pushed down a stream without a paddle. Sheldon was not. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by 3ku11

[shamyyellow]

1 minute ago, 3ku11 said:

Sweetest moments of the show? Other then the crib scene. I can't think of any.

Are you serious?

One of my favorite scenes is in The Stag Convergence after Bernie learns how awful Howard used to be. The speech he gives Penny at the door about the man he used to be vs. the man she made him was wonderful. The Closet Reconfiguration was about the letter Howard's father wrote him and Howardette were very moving and fantastic in that. The song Howard writes for Bernie in The Romance Resonance was another favorite. All of the scenes involving Howard's mom dying in The Comic Book Store Regeneration, The Intimacy Acceleration, and The Leftover Thermalization were fantastic. And of course, all of the sweet scenes regarding Bernie's pregnancy/Halley's birth were incredibly moving. You mentioned the major stand-out of this season, but there were many others that make them my second favorite couple on the show. 

23 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

But the tptb have been phoning it in with Lenny for four seasons now. This is not just a gripe. It is a fundemental issue with the show.

And that is the major issue here. It isn't that the writers can't write a married couple or that they're lazy when it comes to certain developments in every character. The issue is that they no longer put very much effort into writing Lenny. Shamy? Amazing. Howardette? Doing great! Lenny? Nope. Not good. It's a Lenny issue.

[bfm]

I never disliked Howardette but up until this season I didn't really like them. I enjoyed them at times but they weren't that appealing to me. This is my personal opinion, but I think the small amount of fans who define themselves as Howardette shippers, especially prior to this season, supports the notion that they weren't written in a very captivating way. Lenny are worse now than Howardette were but there are similarities and a what appears to me a general problem in writing childless married couples in a fun and captivating way. Not that I expect this with Shamy, the writers love Sheldon so much that they will put all efforts to make it great for them.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by bfm
Merged

[snapepans]

I'm just wondering what was the point about these two scenes:

1. Leonard said:"You think you should call Amy?" Penny answered:"You got fingers and a mouth, you call her."

2. Penny said:"This is making me crazy, somebody's got to go over there." Leonard answered:" You got feet and legs, you do it."

Were those scenes Funny?   Hell no.  Just plain mean.

Were those scenes for pushing the plot forward? hmmm, nah,  don't think so.

So why the hell the writers made Lenny say those words to each other? In an episode they didn't even have their own plots, they were just some bystanders no less?

I'm speechless, sigh.

[veejay]

1 hour ago, shamyyellow said:

Right? I don't understand how anybody thinks the writers are incapable of writing a fun married couple when Howardette have been married since S6 and are responsible for some of the sweetest moments on the show. I understand that this thought process stems from how poorly Lenny has developed, but the inability they have to write fun marriages is very specific to them. 

Exactly that's the point!

[3ku11]

10 minutes ago, snapepans said:

I'm just wondering what was the point about these two scenes:

1. Leonard said:"You think you should call Amy?" Penny answered:"You got fingers and a mouth, you call her."

2. Penny said:"This is making me crazy, somebody's got to go over there." Leonard answered:" You got feet and legs, you do it."

Were those scenes Funny?   Hell no.  Just plain mean.

Were those scenes for pushing the plot forward? hmmm, nah,  don't think so.

So why the hell the writers made Lenny say those words to each other? In an episode they didn't even have their own plots, they were just some bystanders no less?

I'm speechless, sigh.

I don't know I am done trying to justify TPTB actions in regards to Lenny. They reguarly throw them under a bus. I mean 10,22 they SELECTIVELY. The operate word being selectively. Choose to make Lenny communicate. And then even though like you said it does not advance the plot. They decide to make Leonard and Penny be mean to each other. It won't cause issues in the long term. Because The writers are so inconsistent these days. It won't matter at the end of day. Which makes it even more pointless. Hell look at any episode involving Lenny since 7.23. Pointless comes to mind. An excercise in fertality. This show has become a cash cow to sell their merch and their stock. With their poster boy front and centre. Why not milk him? Happy Days did. Friends did, wait..

[bfm]

100 likes for that! So true! Molaro's pathetic response shows that all or speculations about TPTB's opinion of Lenny and Sheldon were correct, not even a bit exaggerated!!! They hate Leonard, think Penny is just this trophy blonde who learned a little better about judging by looks and think Sheldon is the greatest man on earth. Just UGH. 

Also, since it is that way I believe that Molaro will have Sheldon telling Amy about the kiss right away or a short time after. Maybe even get some more digs at Leonard because why not, it will make Sheldon appear better.

[brilliantfool]

Kiss/Cheating related - 

Idk, I always said I didn't see Leonard's boat kiss as cheating, and I def don't see Sheldon & Ramona kiss as cheating. Leonard said he didn't enjoy it, Sheldon acted like he didn't enjoy it. That's enough for me.

[bfm]

23 minutes ago, snapepans said:

I'm just wondering what was the point about these two scenes:

1. Leonard said:"You think you should call Amy?" Penny answered:"You got fingers and a mouth, you call her."

2. Penny said:"This is making me crazy, somebody's got to go over there." Leonard answered:" You got feet and legs, you do it."

Were those scenes Funny?   Hell no.  Just plain mean.

Were those scenes for pushing the plot forward? hmmm, nah,  don't think so.

So why the hell the writers made Lenny say those words to each other? In an episode they didn't even have their own plots, they were just some bystanders no less?

I'm speechless, sigh.

I agree it came across bad. I think they thought it would be funny, but it wasn't. I think J&K also didn't really know how to play it because it wasn't part of their usual dynamics. Trying to look at it in a positive way, at least it contradicts the "groveling" thing - Leonard didn't call Amy because Penny ordered him to do so and didn't run to 4B when Penny wanted to (BTW, I mentioned in the episode thread that Penny not wanting to go and stop the madness was OOC for her). It would have been way better if Penny said she doesn't want to call because Amy yelled at her earlier and if she decided to go across the hall by herself when Sheldon and Ramona came out. 

[No Regrets]

12 minutes ago, bfm said:

Also, since it is that way I believe that Molaro will have Sheldon telling Amy about the kiss right away or a short time after. Maybe even get some more digs at Leonard because why not, it will make Sheldon appear better.

Oh I fully expect a Leonard dig to come out of this. 

[3ku11]

13 minutes ago, brilliantfool said:

Kiss/Cheating related - 

Idk, I always said I didn't see Leonard's boat kiss as cheating, and I def don't see Sheldon & Ramona kiss as cheating. Leonard said he didn't enjoy it, Sheldon acted like he didn't enjoy it. That's enough for me.

Yeah that is me too. IF Leonard diddnt cheat. Sheldon diddnt cheat either. Just Moloro seems to think Leonard did. I am pretty black an white though. I mean if I was in a relationship. And I was kissed, and participated. I Would consider that cheating. That said though. I think if I mentally replaced that woman with another woman, I consider that cheating. Call me crazy. But I am a one woman man lol. And that woman deserves respect. I am sure Sheldon and Leonard do. But they are not perfect, far from it. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by 3ku11

[Jonny]

45 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Yeah that is me too. IF Leonard diddnt cheat. Sheldon diddnt cheat either. Just Moloro seems to think Leonard did. I am pretty black an white though. I mean if I was in a relationship. And I was kissed, and participated. I Would consider that cheating. That said though. I think if I mentally replaced that woman with another woman, I consider that cheating. Call me crazy. But I am a one woman man lol. And that woman deserves respect. I am sure Sheldon and Leonard do. But they are not perfect, far from it. 

My issue with Leonard wasn't the kiss itself, like I said back then it was the fact he waited years to tell her and used the old marriage convention card of no secrets before they get married. And I think he only told her in large part because he thought she would have a secret herself to balance it out, she didn't.

The Sheldon kiss went on longer than I thought it would have done, but his reaction to me clearly is:

1. He didn't enjoy it, his eyes literally popped out of his head.

2. I think he lingered for a moment because of the shock of it. He told her he wasn't interested was listing reasons mid flow and then she put a smacker on him. Look if I was in that same situation I would be in shock as well, I don't know if I would instantly pull away either.

3. He ran off.

Now Sheldon might not tell her that Ramona kissed him, if that's the case then it's a big mistake and will no doubt be brought up again by the writers. I think he will tell her, and honestly if he explains like we saw I think he has nothing to worried about. Maybe feeling a bit foolish that he let her get that close to him despite his friends telling him Ramona's intentions.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jonny

[Chrismo]

Of all the millions  of people who watch TBBT each week, how many people really care what Steve Molaro thinks?

[3ku11]

10 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Of all the millions  of people who watch TBBT each week, how many people really care what Steve Molaro thinks?

He is the head writer of the show lol. I think what he says makes an impact on the show. IT doesent really matter how many people know who he is .

[Chrismo]

Just now, 3ku11 said:

He is the head writer of the show lol. I think what he says makes an impact on the show. IT doesent really matter how many people know who he is .

His impact has nothing on how viewers perceive the episode. 

[Die Zimtzicke]

8 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

So Leonard cheated, but Sheldon diddn't? Is that the narrative were sticking to? Okay. Personally Leonard and Sheldon kissed another woman, thats cheating folks.

Personally, I have never thought Leonard cheated and I certainly don't think Sheldon did. This is not high school. This is people in their thirties. A kiss is not cheating and going to lunch with someone is not cheating, etc. For me it has to be more than that. But I'm 62 and seen some weird stuff happen in real life. Maybe I am more tolerant. But I still say neither of them cheated.

[Jonny]

Can I just say it was good to see the gang working as a team again, haven't seen it on that scale for a while. It wasn't a game or a trip but they were uniting together for a common cause, trying to save their friends and their relationship and I really enjoyed seeing that!

Oh and the girls in particular, amazing as ever! Loved the Amy/Penny/Bernie Skype scenes. I thought Kaley, Mayim and Melissa had such a fantastic episode. Amy had such great lines over Skype and reactions, Penny trying to get them all organised and have a talk with Sheldon in 4B (amazing scene btw) and Bernie, the pint-sized fire rocket using her body to try and block any advances and gave such a 'if looks could kill she would be a mass murderer' death stare to Ramona lol.

Oh and that stairs scene I think might be one of the very best scenes of this season and one of the best group scenes in YEARS! The awkward silence and the way Bernie and Penny kept moving up to try and block Ramona from getting to close to him. I thought it was frelling genius!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jonny

[Die Zimtzicke]

22 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Of all the millions  of people who watch TBBT each week, how many people really care what Steve Molaro thinks?

Most of them probably don't know who he is. Not everyone gets that involved with TV comedies.