[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Capt. Hilts]

21 minutes ago, April said:

I've said this before but I think the way they did it 1) the proposal was enough of a surprise* and 2) the episode had enough tension with Ramona going after Sheldon** that people might wonder how that proposal will work out. Sure, the general assumption is that Amy will say yes but I've also seen some people thinking she'll say no and the most popular variation across both camps is that there'll be a talk of some sorts where Amy has questions and Sheldon has to explain the situation.

*Surprise in that they could have easily made the kiss the cliffhanger but then the episode just kept going with that montage of Sheldon noping out of there and travelling straight to Amy.

**Not that Sheldon was actually tempted as even Molaro confirms, but Ramona clearly didn't take "no" for an answer so the tension comes from the gang's worry about how far she'll go.

I think they also set it up in the previous episode with the conversation over flavorless oatmeal and kinda-spontaneous coitus. 

[Jonny]

5 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I think they also set it up in the previous episode with the conversation over flavorless oatmeal and kinda-spontaneous coitus. 

Unless we actually see Amy for some episodes in Season 11 at Princeton then you can say the Amy going away was part of the setup as well.

[April]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I think they also set it up in the previous episode with the conversation over flavorless oatmeal and kinda-spontaneous coitus. 

Yes, totally agree. The episode was all around their commitment to and support for each other so that it's believable that the proposal doesn't come out of nowhere. Especially Sheldon's "what would I do without you?" kinda talk was all about that. And again, Molaro confirmed as much in recent interviews.

One could probably speculate that had they not come up with the Ramona thing it would have been another trigger that would have prompted Sheldon to propose.

[Nogravitasatall]

5 hours ago, Tensor said:

 Thread unlocked.  Let's not go back to that particular discussion.   

I slept through everything. No idea what happened. (Looks around groggily)

Edited May 15, 2017 by Nogravitasatall

[Carlos]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:44 AM, serena_1995 said:

Penny was also completely drunk and judgement impaired. Imo Leonard should have refused her and not gone further with her.

He thought they were getting back together, and didn't think he was doing anything wrong. In that respect Leonard has shown restraint. Do you remember the kiss in the episode where Leonard was dressed as Frodo? He stopped Penny because he didn't want to take advantage of her. I don't think he thought that was the case in Lunar Excitation.

Aaaaaand if you really want to talk about people taking advantage of inebriated people, let's talk about Raj and 4.24, shall we? He knew Penny still loved Leonard and nevertheless he kept on giving her alcohol. In fact she was so drunk she didn't remember a thing the morning after.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Carlos
Spelling

[Nogravitasatall]

HR Woman: I called you in today because your assistant Alex Jensen has lodged a complaint against you.

Sheldon: So I’ve been told. But I can’t understand what she has to complain about. I mean, she has a front-row seat as I make scientific history. There’s string cheese in my mini-fridge, and that’s for anyone. Yeah, and just yesterday I led her away from a life of sexual promiscuity by making her look at pictures of disease-ridden genitalia.

HR Woman: Cancel my next appointment. This is gonna take a while. Dr. Cooper, you said things to your employee that you just cannot say in the workplace.

Sheldon: Like what?

HR Woman: Well, according to Ms. Jensen, you said that she was a slave to her biological urges and called her an egg salad sandwich. I don’t even know what that means, but I’m gonna go ahead and tell you you can’t say it.

Sheldon: Oh! I see the confusion here. No, no, Alex thought I was singling her out. No. I meant that all women are slaves to their biological urges, you know? Even you. You’re a slave.

HR Woman: I’m a what?

Sheldon: Well, y-you, I-I’m just saying, you know, at a certain point in a woman’s menstrual cycle…

HR Woman: Whuh-ah! Woah! You can’t talk about that, either, Dr. Cooper. Your language is entirely inappropriate, and I’m gonna advise that you shut your mouth right now.

Sheldon: I don’t see why I’m the one being persecuted here. Dr. Hofstadter, he was bragging about his sexual desirability to anyone who would listen. You know, and Howard Wolowitz, he spent two years using university resources building a six-breasted sex robot. Oh, and at the office Christmas party, I heard Rajesh Koothrappali refer to you several times as Brown Sugar.

HR Woman (writing): Hofstadter… Wolowitz… and the last one was Rajesh Koothrappali?

Sheldon: Yes. No, yeah, but in his defense, that wasn’t racist. He’s also brown.

[3ku11]

I don't know how anyone can disagree Sheldon is more of a jerk then Leonard. When he has been an ass to pretty much everyone the entire series. It is pretty obvious, but anyway. It is actually a fact. If you look at the cannon of the show. I was simply stating Sheldon is a jerk, because I presumed everyone knew that was common knowledge in this show. But apparently not. And yeah sure you can shift focus away from Sheldon. And go on about Leonard and the other characters flaws and traits. Still doesen't make Sheldon any less of a jerk. When through out the course of the series. Their is pretty solid evidence to suggest his consistent need to dismiss people, just look at how he degraded Howard through out the series. His constant need to diminish anything Leonard does. His constant need for his ego to brushed, because it is so over inflated. That Sheldon is the biggest jerk of all in this show. But moving on. 

As for the 3.23 again. Leonard diddn't take advantage. He thought they were getting back together. As established early next morning. Penny was in the wrong imo. Well they both were. It is like Leonard with Dr Plimpton. He is a nerd, and they portrayed him like one in those instances. But this is old news. I could also bring up Middle Earth Paradigm when Leonard turned down a drunk Penny. But whatever, long hiatus this is going to be LOL.

[Jonny]

They have all been jerks, this discussion really is pointless. I can't see what at all it will achieve? You won't find a consensus.

[djsurrey]

8 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

18 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Leonard has a central role still. So does Penny. Just not so much as a couple.

 

Then there is no point in having them married. 

I don't understand the question.  (I'm avoiding saying Leonard wore her down ).

It seems like a natural progression in a series that has been on the air for 10 years. Also, Penny makes fist fulls of money. If she is not connected to Leonard what is she doing slumming in a building that has had a broken elevator for more than 10 years. Not like she is a struggling actor/waitress anymore.

Edited May 16, 2017 by djsurrey

[3ku11]

35 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I don't understand the question.  (I'm avoiding saying Leonard wore her down ).

It seems like a natural progression in a series that has been on the air for 10 years. Also, Penny makes fist fulls of money. If she is not connected to Leonard what is she doing slumming in a building that has had a broken elevator for more than 10 years. Not like she is a struggling actor/waitress anymore.

Maybe she loves her strawberry Pop Tart . Besides I think their is more evidence since Season 7, that Penny wore Leonard down. She did propose after all. A few times actually. i agree Penny stayed their for ten years because of Leonard. Other wise why would she stay in that apt. As a struggling actress/waitress going no where? And if she is not connected to Leonard anymore. Seeing she has a load of money now, why stay their with him in that building? So yeah It is the same as how does a struggling actress afford the same apt as Two Succesfull Physicists? It has to be sold to the audience. Penny would of moved out a long time ago, if it wasen't for Leonard. Leonard kept Penny in the series. 

i was wondering with a hiatus. Well this forum, well the mods be doing an episode tournament again? They were always fun. And good time killer before the premeire taping. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by 3ku11

[Tensor]

34 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

i was wondering with a hiatus. Well this forum, well the mods be doing an episode tournament again? They were always fun. And good time killer before the premeire taping. 

Yes, there will be an episode Tournament.   Also, I'll be doing the top 10 moments for Shamy and Lenny again, with number 1 being posted the night of the first taping. 

[Capt. Hilts]

5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I slept through everything. No idea what happened. (Looks around groggily)

Someone mentioned Hitler and it all went downhill from there.

[jenafan]

Listen, I will defend Sheldon more than anyone on this forum if I need be.  However, I am of the consensus that he has been more of a jerk to everyone on the show more than all the characters combined.  One of the reasons I am such a Shamy shipper is because I'm amazed Amy has stuck it out and fallen in love with him inspite of his self-centeredness and insensitivity.  I enjoy seeing Sheldon become a better person because of his love for Amy and the sparring that goes on between them all the while.

That being said, everyone is a jerk to everyone, but Sheldon should take the award for showing the least amount of consideration and tact of them all.   One of the reasons I enjoy the show is because of the friendships that exist and love among all the members of the gang against all odds, without keeping track of all the times they have intentionally or unintentionally hurt reach other.  That Sheldon can be as callous as he is and still have friends that will go out of their way to protect him makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.   Yes, it is irritating and frustrating to see him do and say the things he does, but everyone's reaction to him is partially what draws me to the show and makes me laugh, get angry, and/or cry.  Without Sheldon, or any of the characters, I think I'd get bored with the show.

Edited May 16, 2017 by jenafan

[Nogravitasatall]

2 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Someone mentioned Hitler and it all went downhill from there.

It's interesting how this space is such a microcosm. Thank you all.

I hadn't heard that suggestion about Leonard before*. It's a provocative position that I hadn't considered prior. A little vexed, but interesting. I must stop my wife from bringing home the Chardonnay. I now doubt my own motives and perhaps the last 28 years of Saturday nights. Or something. I will not, however, ask the children to return their noise cancelling headphones. 

I'm not really that big on the keeping track but I do think the elbows got a lot sharper (the show escalated) from at least Itchy Sweater. I don't think Leonard is Satan and I do think Sheldon is a huge ( and  apparently aesthetically pleasing) prick. You just have to hear what he says, see what he does and be convinced he believes it.  Then you make your choice on how to respond.

Still, as @Jenafan says, the whole show survives because these idiots all forgive each other. At least that's one decent lesson to take from it.

*(not the Hitler thing, the other thing^)

Edit: ^ my youngest daughter thinks Leonard should have made her a cup of tea and talked her out of it, if he were to be the better person. Bad show! How'd it ever get so popular?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Nogravitasatall

[JohnPhD]

18 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

HR Woman: I called you in today because your assistant Alex Jensen has lodged a complaint against you.

Sheldon: So I’ve been told. But I can’t understand what she has to complain about. I mean, she has a front-row seat as I make scientific history. There’s string cheese in my mini-fridge, and that’s for anyone. Yeah, and just yesterday I led her away from a life of sexual promiscuity by making her look at pictures of disease-ridden genitalia.

HR Woman: Cancel my next appointment. This is gonna take a while. Dr. Cooper, you said things to your employee that you just cannot say in the workplace.

Sheldon: Like what?

HR Woman: Well, according to Ms. Jensen, you said that she was a slave to her biological urges and called her an egg salad sandwich. I don’t even know what that means, but I’m gonna go ahead and tell you you can’t say it.

Sheldon: Oh! I see the confusion here. No, no, Alex thought I was singling her out. No. I meant that all women are slaves to their biological urges, you know? Even you. You’re a slave.

HR Woman: I’m a what?

Sheldon: Well, y-you, I-I’m just saying, you know, at a certain point in a woman’s menstrual cycle…

HR Woman: Whuh-ah! Woah! You can’t talk about that, either, Dr. Cooper. Your language is entirely inappropriate, and I’m gonna advise that you shut your mouth right now.

Sheldon: I don’t see why I’m the one being persecuted here. Dr. Hofstadter, he was bragging about his sexual desirability to anyone who would listen. You know, and Howard Wolowitz, he spent two years using university resources building a six-breasted sex robot. Oh, and at the office Christmas party, I heard Rajesh Koothrappali refer to you several times as Brown Sugar.

HR Woman (writing): Hofstadter… Wolowitz… and the last one was Rajesh Koothrappali?

Sheldon: Yes. No, yeah, but in his defense, that wasn’t racist. He’s also brown.

The "HR Woman" was called Mrs Davis, and was quite a significant character, altho' she only appeared in 4 episodes. Pity we don't see her any more. I think she'd be more fun than Bert, for example.

[SRAM]

11 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

The "HR Woman" was called Mrs Davis, and was quite a significant character, altho' she only appeared in 4 episodes. Pity we don't see her any more. I think she'd be more fun than Bert, for example.

Raj's next girlfriend???

[veejay]

13 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Raj's next girlfriend???

Would Janine ever agree with him about adorable cheating penguins?

[SRAM]

11 minutes ago, veejay said:

Would Janine ever agree with him about adorable cheating penguins?

I just want to hear her call him brown sugar.

[JohnPhD]

On 12/05/2017 at 11:44 PM, Die Zimtzicke said:

It's just a feeling based on what they've said but I honestly think the writers feel that this is an ensemble show and that Penny and Leonard have had their turn at being the major characters. There was no Amy or Bernie for years. The focus for the most part, not all, but the most part was on Lenny. Then they started giving Howardette a turn and began Shamy, which went slow as molasses while they had the Howardette wedding and Baby. Lenny already had two weddings. I think the writers want something new to play with and it's Shamy, based on the fact that Sheldon has always been a major character anyway. I know that theory will not make some people happy, but to the writers, the whole fandom is not made up of Lenny fans and they seem to like to change focus every now and then.

You may be right about what the writers feel, but if so I think that they don't know what they're doing. It may be in a sense an ensemble, but that doesn't mean that either characters or actors or relationships between characters are interchangeable. The couples all had different properties and functions. Penny and Leonard were the romantic couple, Penny was the romantic heroine, KC was the unchallenged leading lady. Bernadette and Howard were the domestic couple. Their story was first about sleazy Howard redeemed by the Love of a Good Woman, then about their homemaking and parenthood. That's why it would be pointless to also have P&L get a house of their own - that's been covered. Amy and Sheldon were a parody of a couple, Sheldon with no sex drive and Amy with no sex appeal or charm. More of a running gag - Amy always trying to enveigle Sheldon into being more "couply", Sheldon always escaping Amy's clutches.

But at some point in the last few seasons the show's creators took the inexplicable - and IMO artistically disastrous - decision to sideline Lenny and promote Shamy to romantic couple. Further, Shamy are getting more screen time than Lenny ever did - in 1023 it seemed there was hardly a minute where the screen was free of Amy. And it doesn't work. MB was hired to play the obnoxious, plain, awkward woman who became more or less Sheldon's stalker. Now she's put in the role of romantic heroine, and she just can't do it. Lenny was always a joy to watch, including when they weren't actually a couple, because of the innumerable subtle and authentic ways in which KC showed Penny's feelings for Leonard (and JG did a great job too, of course; and in those golden days the writers gave them great lines). Now when Amy is supposed to show her "love" for Sheldon it's either mawkish and embarrassing or rather sickening or just horrible; and always boring. It really should have been obvious to the writers that the idea that this zero-chemistry couple could take the place of Lenny in the structure of the show was absurd.

[Mario D.]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:30 AM, 5Mississippis said:

Sheldon also let Aquaman record away, capturing any intimate activities between Leonard and Penny, without informing them they were being recorded for god knows how long.

When they became aware, Leonard, standing behind the kitchen island (naturally), looked distressed and sighed heavily, just looked down at the table. Just a frustrated sigh?! Sheldon got away easy for that one. If that were me, Sheldon would have gotten punched right in the face. 

Also, in "The itchy Brain Simulation" where Sheldon had Leonard wear that sweater until he returned the rented tape was in Amy's words "diabolical"!

[JohnPhD]

10 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Also, in "The itchy Brain Simulation" where Sheldon had Leonard wear that sweater until he returned the rented tape was in Amy's words "diabolical"!

I thought it was more a case of "more fool Leonard".

[sarah7]

1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

 

But at some point in the last few seasons the show's creators took the inexplicable - and IMO artistically disastrous - decision to sideline Lenny and promote Shamy to romantic couple. Further, Shamy are getting more screen time than Lenny ever did - in 1023 it seemed there was hardly a minute where the screen was free of Amy. And it doesn't work. MB was hired to play the obnoxious, plain, awkward woman who became more or less Sheldon's stalker.

Sorry, but the Sheldon's stalker's role had always been Ramona's.

Amy was created and developed to be Sheldon's soulmate, as outrageous or disgusting that could result to some sensibilities.

And regarding Shamy taking the place of the main couple, well, since Sheldon had overpowered the whole show, it's only logical that his own personal/love story is also the one getting more attention and screentime.

I'm not saying that's right or fair, but that's how things are right now.

[Chrismo]

12 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

Sorry, but the Sheldon's stalker's role had always been Ramona's.

 

Ramona's been on the show twice in 10 years. JMO but always would seem to have to happen more than twice.

[Die Zimtzicke]

1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

You may be right about what the writers feel, but if so I think that they don't know what they're doing. It may be in a sense an ensemble, but that doesn't mean that either characters or actors or relationships between characters are interchangeable. The couples all had different properties and functions. Penny and Leonard were the romantic couple, Penny was the romantic heroine, KC was the unchallenged leading lady. Bernadette and Howard were the domestic couple. Their story was first about sleazy Howard redeemed by the Love of a Good Woman, then about their homemaking and parenthood. That's why it would be pointless to also have P&L get a house of their own - that's been covered. Amy and Sheldon were a parody of a couple, Sheldon with no sex drive and Amy with no sex appeal or charm. More of a running gag - Amy always trying to enveigle Sheldon into being more "couply", Sheldon always escaping Amy's clutches.

Do you mean in general, or just season ten? I'm a huge fan of the show and I never saw Lenny as THE only possibility for a romantic couple. In the beginning all the guys were hot for her, not just Leonard, and I figured they'd all get romances at some point. She was not a heroine in the beginning, either. She was often dumb, or skanky or showing how mean she had been when she was younger. Then Lenny did get more romantic, and she learned to appreciate the nerdy guys, to the point of having two weddings, but they certainly have not been romantic much this year, unless you count the fantasy sequences. Howard and Bernie have changed a lot since they started but I agree there's no point in Lenny buying a house. As for Sheldon escaping Amy's clutches, while she's made it clear once she fell in love with him that she'd like more than she was getting, she never forced him into anything regarding sex, and twice when he was willing to have sex, the make a baby scene and the scene when they get back from Bernie's false alarm, they did not have sex. She never stalked him as I see it. They were friends, albeit through text messaging at first and then they fell in love.

Shamy are the new angle the writers want to go in, apparently, and I still think it's because they think they've done what they think they needed to do with Lenny. Whether I'm right or not, or whether they are right or not remains to be seen. There's a lot they could do with them individually, though, and I wish they would, mostly regarding Penny's job. And I do think they are going to finally do something with Raj next season. They'd better, as I see it. I used to like him but this season he was more of a failure than Stuart, who also needs a storyline where he finally succeeds at something. Maybe something to do with his art.

Meanwhile, on a new note, I'd love to see the show bring on this kid who just got his physics degree at 14 and is now supposedly the youngest person to ever do so to meet Sheldon. I think that would be amusing.
http://wgntv.com/2017/05/16/14-year-old-graduates-from-college-with-sights-set-on-graduate-school/

Edited May 16, 2017 by Die Zimtzicke

[Swedish Chef]

33 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Shamy are the new angle the writers want to go in, apparently, and I still think it's because they think they've done what they think they needed to do with Lenny. Whether I'm right or not, or whether they are right or not remains to be seen. There's a lot they could do with them individually,

There are a lot of things the writers can do with Lenny as a couple if they just cared, but at the moment it is much more fun to write Shamy and Howardette plots. 

I think it is really a waste of money to have two actors standing behind the kitchen island or in the doorway for 48 episodes doin' nothing.