[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

It is up to the writers to maintain continuity not the Actors anyway. 

Of course it is. Not being an actor myself, apart from playing Archangel Gabriel in a school play in 1961, I have always wondered why actors don't correct mistakes in scripts. After all, they're the ones saying the words while having to sound as if they mean them even when they're wrong. Now I know.

Edited May 19, 2017 by joyceraye

[mirs1]

42 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Of course it is. Not being an actor myself, apart from playing Archangel Gabriel in a school play in 1961, I have always wondered why actors don't correct mistakes in scripts. After all, they're the ones saying the words while having to sound as if they mean them even when they're wrong. Now I know.

I think that the actors might be more involved "detecting" problems with their characters rather than with continuity errors in the plot. Some days ago in an interview, for example, Jim Parsons said once in an early seasons episode Penny was supposed to put a hand on Sheldon's shoulder while exiting a door  and he suggested that Sheldon at that point would have gone bat-crap crazy about it so it was better not to do that. Probably all actors had a "no, that is wrong" moment, not about plots points or continuity errors, but about small acting choices.

Edited May 19, 2017 by mirs1

[spidergirl]

53 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I think that the actors might be more involved "detecting" problems with their characters rather than with continuity errors in the plot. Some days ago in an interview, for example, Jim Parsons said once in an early season episode Penny was supposed to put a hand on Sheldon's shoulder while exiting a door  and he suggested that Sheldon at that point would have gone bat-crap crazy about it so it was better not to do that. Probably all actors had a "no, that is wrong" moment, not about plots points or continuity errors, but about small acting choices.

It is great when the actors are listen. They are better than anyone to know how they should process some feelings from the script as they have been for years performing that specific character. Continuity would be great but most of times it doesnt result in any major damage, mostly result in some silly jokes. A behavior  from the character that might turn very ooc  is something really annoying imo. For moments the viewer stop to believe in the character as they were real and that is a very important point from viewer for the sucess of the scene/ storyplot imo.

Edited May 19, 2017 by spidergirl

[Capt. Hilts]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

There is so, so much more to be explored with the nerd now that he has the girl.  The thing is people have to be willing to go that route. To think about and write storylines that would tell that sort of story.  We have seen the girl experience growth and knowledge about treating others in a more respectful way.  We could see the nerd learn to not look down on people of lesser intelligence (he has somewhat, but can go futher).  We could look at the couple grow together and mature and live their lives as a happily married couple instead of bickering; instead of witnessing writing that goes for the quickest, easiest laugh.

This television show is more than well-established. It has reached the point where it is now (wait for it---) legendary. Now is the time to flex some storytelling muscles. To show us something that we have not seen. Is there a chance of being cancelled in the next two years? Hardly. People (TPTB) need to become brave.  People (TPTB) need to expand their horizons.  The Big Bang Theory is a 2,000 pound gorilla.  Perhaps it is time they act the part and take on all comers.  Make Raj bi-sexual and bring us along on his journey.  Show us Halley being a toddler running around and touching Sheldon's things (wouldn't that be a hoot).  Show us why Penny calls Leonard the love of her life. Show us that he didn't wear her down, he made her comfortable admitting who and what she loved.   It is time for TPTB to grow a pair.  People whine about OITNB winning awards?  The star of Transparent has won the last two Emmy Awards for best actor in a comedy?  Pull up your pants and be big boys and girls.  Take them on!

I like this.  A lot.

I think one problem is that [WARNING: my usual rant] not enough was done to portray Penny as a great catch and not just a cute - but failed - actor and a waitress.  She should have been portrayed as dating at least one impressive guy.  Not just because it would have depicted her as more desirable, but also to position her better in contradistinction to Leonard, who had affairs/relationships with lawyers, physicians, scholars, etc.  He had enough sex to destroy the meme that he's a geek who can't get a date.  Penny should have, at least, dated one of the Anaheim Angels for a few episodes, or someone interesting.  

As I've said many times, I LOVE how the writers depict Penny as being intelligent, just not scholarly.  Use it!

As I've also said, I think getting her working at a local news 'on location' team would be a really good fit for her.  Not necessarily in front of the camera, but occasionally that would be an option.  It is not completely improbable for someone like her to have such work.  And it would give her jokes about working weird hours covering weird stories.

As you said - Be BOLD!

[hokie3457]

7 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I like this.  A lot.

I think one problem is that [WARNING: my usual rant] not enough was done to portray Penny as a great catch and not just a cute - but failed - actor and a waitress.  She should have been portrayed as dating at least one impressive guy.  Not just because it would have depicted her as more desirable, but also to position her better in contradistinction to Leonard, who had affairs/relationships with lawyers, physicians, scholars, etc.  He had enough sex to destroy the meme that he's a geek who can't get a date.  Penny should have, at least, dated one of the Anaheim Angels for a few episodes, or someone interesting.  

As I've said many times, I LOVE how the writers depict Penny as being intelligent, just not scholarly.  Use it!

As I've also said, I think getting her working at a local news 'on location' team would be a really good fit for her.  Not necessarily in front of the camera, but occasionally that would be an option.  It is not completely improbable for someone like her to have such work.  And it would give her jokes about working weird hours covering weird stories.

As you said - Be BOLD!

Agree with your rant!  The rest of the television world is taking chances.  Shaking things up while (let's face it) TBBT is staying "old school".  What do they have to lose?  I think by taking giant steps out of the old school would result in energizing the actors; maybe even the writers.  "Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin'; Plannin' and dreamin' " as the old song goes.... 

[veejay]

18 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I like this.  A lot.

I think one problem is that [WARNING: my usual rant] not enough was done to portray Penny as a great catch and not just a cute - but failed - actor and a waitress.  She should have been portrayed as dating at least one impressive guy.  Not just because it would have depicted her as more desirable, but also to position her better in contradistinction to Leonard, who had affairs/relationships with lawyers, physicians, scholars, etc.  He had enough sex to destroy the meme that he's a geek who can't get a date.  Penny should have, at least, dated one of the Anaheim Angels for a few episodes, or someone interesting.  

As I've said many times, I LOVE how the writers depict Penny as being intelligent, just not scholarly.  Use it!

As I've also said, I think getting her working at a local news 'on location' team would be a really good fit for her.  Not necessarily in front of the camera, but occasionally that would be an option.  It is not completely improbable for someone like her to have such work.  And it would give her jokes about working weird hours covering weird stories.

As you said - Be BOLD!

I like to give you a spot on too!

[hokie3457]

Ahhh!  The gif where Penny is about to romance his pants off!!!!

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

2 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

There is so, so much more to be explored with the nerd now that he has the girl.  The thing is people have to be willing to go that route. To think about and write storylines that would tell that sort of story.  We have seen the girl experience growth and knowledge about treating others in a more respectful way.  We could see the nerd learn to not look down on people of lesser intelligence (he has somewhat, but can go futher).  We could look at the couple grow together and mature and live their lives as a happily married couple instead of bickering; instead of witnessing writing that goes for the quickest, easiest laugh.

This television show is more than well-established. It has reached the point where it is now (wait for it---) legendary. Now is the time to flex some storytelling muscles. To show us something that we have not seen. Is there a chance of being cancelled in the next two years? Hardly. People (TPTB) need to become brave.  People (TPTB) need to expand their horizons.  The Big Bang Theory is a 2,000 pound gorilla.  Perhaps it is time they act the part and take on all comers.  Make Raj bi-sexual and bring us along on his journey.  Show us Halley being a toddler running around and touching Sheldon's things (wouldn't that be a hoot).  Show us why Penny calls Leonard the love of her life. Show us that he didn't wear her down, he made her comfortable admitting who and what she loved.   It is time for TPTB to grow a pair.  People whine about OITNB winning awards?  The star of Transparent has won the last two Emmy Awards for best actor in a comedy?  Pull up your pants and be big boys and girls.  Take them on!

This is a great post! I especially like "We could look at the couple grow together and mature and live their lives as a happily married couple..." AND this could still be funny. 

45 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Ahhh!  The gif where Penny is about to romance his pants off!!!!

She's good at that.

[BigBang15]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

 

I think one problem is that [WARNING: my usual rant] not enough was done to portray Penny as a great catch and not just a cute - but failed - actor and a waitress.  She should have been portrayed as dating at least one impressive guy.  Not just because it would have depicted her as more desirable, but also to position her better in contradistinction to Leonard, who had affairs/relationships with lawyers, physicians, scholars, etc. 

But that makes you tie Penny's (self-)worth to a man. Penny is Penny because she's funny, pretty, street-wise and (mostly) can handle the geek-world even though she doesn't belong to it (or like it much).

[Mario D.]

2 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

There is so, so much more to be explored with the nerd now that he has the girl.  The thing is people have to be willing to go that route. To think about and write storylines that would tell that sort of story.  We have seen the girl experience growth and knowledge about treating others in a more respectful way.  We could see the nerd learn to not look down on people of lesser intelligence (he has somewhat, but can go futher).  We could look at the couple grow together and mature and live their lives as a happily married couple instead of bickering; instead of witnessing writing that goes for the quickest, easiest laugh.

This television show is more than well-established. It has reached the point where it is now (wait for it---) legendary. Now is the time to flex some storytelling muscles. To show us something that we have not seen. Is there a chance of being cancelled in the next two years? Hardly. People (TPTB) need to become brave.  People (TPTB) need to expand their horizons.  The Big Bang Theory is a 2,000 pound gorilla.  Perhaps it is time they act the part and take on all comers.  Make Raj bi-sexual and bring us along on his journey.  Show us Halley being a toddler running around and touching Sheldon's things (wouldn't that be a hoot).  Show us why Penny calls Leonard the love of her life. Show us that he didn't wear her down, he made her comfortable admitting who and what she loved.   It is time for TPTB to grow a pair.  People whine about OITNB winning awards?  The star of Transparent has won the last two Emmy Awards for best actor in a comedy?  Pull up your pants and be big boys and girls.  Take them on!

Agree wholeheartedly that this show needs some new direction in their storylines if it is going to last another two years.  A am certain that Shamy will be the core storyline for the first couple of episodes next season. But after that Lenny should be the center of some storylines to just maybe win back some viewers. Also, I am of the opinion that these actors after playing their roles for 10 years might have some impact on the way a scene should be done. Maybe not necessarily the dialogue but gestures and asides. They probably know their characters as well as anyone and how their image of that character should be portrayed.  JMO as we all give on this forum.

[Capt. Hilts]

10 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

But that makes you tie Penny's (self-)worth to a man. Penny is Penny because she's funny, pretty, street-wise and (mostly) can handle the geek-world even though she doesn't belong to it (or like it much).

Good point.  But everyone in this show is seen/perceived in respect to the others.  In her case, that's Leonard.  Her being with him now would have more value if he weren't seen as an alternative to not-so-great guys.   Thank the deity of your choice that she was on the road to financial independence when they got married so she couldn't be depicted as just sponging off him, as she was so often in the past.

I still like your point and will keep my antennae up for that.

[JohnPhD]

12 hours ago, joyceraye said:

When they were having dinner if they could have let Ramona answer,'Sorry, you were speaking so I thought you were drunk' it would have established the continuity after Raj said,'I think you made that very clear' and got some reaction. She could sound catty to get our backs up or pretend-sweet to ingratiate herself with the group to make us even more suspicious.

Yes, and it would have been the best line in the episode. Now that you've suggested it, Joyceraye, it's clear the writers should have thought of it. They're not trying hard enough.

[Capt. Hilts]

5 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Agree wholeheartedly that this show needs some new direction in their storylines if it is going to last another two years.  A am certain that Shamy will be the core storyline for the first couple of episodes next season. But after that Lenny should be the center of some storylines to just maybe win back some viewers. Also, I am of the opinion that these actors after playing their roles for 10 years might have some impact on the way a scene should be done. Maybe not necessarily the dialogue but gestures and asides. They probably know their characters as well as anyone and how their image of that character should be portrayed.  JMO as we all give on this forum.

Yeah.  I've already seen the four compared to the Ricardos and the Mertzes.  And that is, truly, a compliment.

I just wish the show would stop trying to cram three plots into 19 minutes.  So we don't see all characters every week - that's okay.  We know who they are.

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

As I've also said, I think getting her working at a local news 'on location' team would be a really good fit for her.  Not necessarily in front of the camera, but occasionally that would be an option.  It is not completely improbable for someone like her to have such work.  And it would give her jokes about working weird hours covering weird stories.

As you said - Be BOLD!

That might be too similar to HIMYM's Robin. I do agree however that they can find her a job that will be interesting, funny and will make her happy.

[Capt. Hilts]

15 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Yes, and it would have been the best line in the episode. Now that you've suggested it, Joyceraye, it's clear the writers should have thought of it. They're not trying hard enough.

It's still not as good a line as "We'll all walk you to your car..."

10 minutes ago, bfm said:

That might be too similar to HIMYM's Robin. I do agree however that they can find her a job that will be interesting, funny and will make her happy.

Ain't never seen it, but I will take your word for it.

[bfm]

29 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Good point.  But everyone in this show is seen/perceived in respect to the others.  In her case, that's Leonard.  Her being with him now would have more value if he weren't seen as an alternative to not-so-great guys.   Thank the deity of your choice that she was on the road to financial independence when they got married so she couldn't be depicted as just sponging off him, as she was so often in the past.

I still like your point and will keep my antennae up for that.

I think they believe that by being hot Penny is automatically considered to be of a "top league" and having the possibility date almost anyone she wants. On the othet hand, I believe, they think by being nerdy and not hot Leonard is automatically considered to be of a "low league" and has much less options. Hence they felt the need to show that he is able to attract "good catches". Of course, I'm not saying these perceptions are true, just that they might be the motivations behind the dating narratives for Penny and Leonard. I do believe that some of the audience, especially casuals, hold such views. Some Youtube/Facebook comments show that. However, I think acting like the whole viewership is like that is somewhat disrespecting the audience. There were times when Penny and Leonard were treated like full characters and shown having multiple characteristics that make them who they are and make them connect as a couple. It is not that way anymore. They now stick to the "he wore her down" jokes that emphasize the unfortunate above mentioned views (bringing the disrespect for the audience to new highs).

11 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

It's still not as good a line as "We'll all walk you to your car..."

Ain't never seen it, but I will take your word for it.

Robin was a news reporter (and later anchor) and was shown covering weird (funny) stories. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by bfm

[hokie3457]

4 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think they believe that by being hot Penny is automatically considered to be of a "top league" and having the possibility date almost anyone she wants. On the othet hand, I believe, they think by being nerdy and not hot Leonard is automatically considered to be of a "low league" and has much less options. Hence they felt the need to show that he is able to attract "good catches". Of course, I'm not saying these perceptions are true, just that they might be the motivations behind the dating narratives for Penny and Leonard. I do believe that some of the audience, especially casuals, hold such views. Some Youtube/Facebook comments show that. However, I think acting like the whole viewership is like that is somewhat disrespecting the audience. There were times when Penny and Leonard were treated like full characters and shown having multiple characteristics that make them who they are and make them connect as a couple. It is not that way anymore. They now stick to the "he wore her down" jokes that emphasize the unfortunate above mentioned views (bringing the disrespect for the audience to new highs).

Do you think part of the seemingly "low league" Leonard having more dates than "top league" Penny could have been a devise to show her pining for him even though she would (again this word) seemingly be more available to/for date/dating?

[bfm]

6 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Do you think part of the seemingly "low league" Leonard having more dates than "top league" Penny could have been a devise to show her pining for him even though she would (again this word) seemingly be more available to/for date/dating?

If I understand your question correctly, that is what I mean. The writers may have written this to make it credible that Penny is interested in him because to them it needed justification. You can tell by the "he wore her down" jokes that they think someone like Penny marrying someone like Leonard requires a lof of justification. (Another reason to Leonard's dating, IMO, was to make Penny see what she is missing. You know the saying, you only learn to appreciate what you had when you lose it).

[joyceraye]

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

It is great when the actors are listen. They are better than anyone to know how they should process some feelings from the script as they have been for years performing that specific character. Continuity would be great but most of times it doesnt result in any major damage, mostly result in some silly jokes. A behavior  from the character that might turn very ooc  is something really annoying imo. For moments the viewer stop to believe in the character as they were real and that is a very important point from viewer for the sucess of the scene/ storyplot imo.

You're right ! You've hit the nail on the head. I used to be a great fan of the BBC's Inspector Lynley Mysteries. I started a yahoo group for followers of the series. Detective Inspector Lynley was a well-educated person and so was his sergeant. They both talked properly although they were supposed to come from opposite ends of the social spectrum. Lynley was an earl. He'd been to Eton ( which has the highest entrance requirements for 12 to 13 year-olds in the country ; Sheldon would not be out of place ) and Oxford.  Somewhere  around the fourth series, things started changing. There was one writer in particular who had our two brilliant police officers speaking out of character with slang expressions and Americanisms that made the clues hard to follow. That might just have been acceptable from a point of view that their speech was becoming more modern as they got older, but it was beyond belief when towards the end of the series the vocabulary and grammar of the police detectives was worse than that of the criminals who were supposed to be rough. I don't mean merely ending sentences with a preposition or splitting infinitives  but such inaccurate speech they wouldn't have passed the police entrance exams, mistaken vocabulary that a police officer wouldn't use and pronunciations and terminology none of us would. I couldn't understand why Nathaniel Parker in particular didn't speak out and remind them who his character was supposed to be, for instance pointing out that a real police inspector would know the words of the caution when making an arrest, or even just say the correct words. I found it very disappointing. 

[Capt. Hilts]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Ahhh!  The gif where Penny is about to romance his pants off!!!!

Looks like a romance ninja, to me.

6 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

You're right ! You've hit the nail on the head. I used to be a great fan of the BBC's Inspector Lynley Mysteries. I started a yahoo group for followers of the series. Detective Inspector Lynley was a well-educated person and so was his sergeant. They both talked properly although they were supposed to come from opposite ends of the social spectrum. Lynley was an earl. He'd been to Eton ( which has the highest entrance requirements for 12 to 13 year-olds in the country ; Sheldon would not be out of place ) and Oxford.  Somewhere  around the fourth series, things started changing. There was one writer in particular who had our two brilliant police officers speaking out of character with slang expressions and Americanisms that made the clues hard to follow. That might just have been acceptable from a point of view that their speech was becoming more modern as they got older, but it was beyond belief when towards the end of the series the vocabulary and grammar of the police detectives was worse than that of the criminals who were supposed to be rough. I don't mean merely ending sentences with a preposition or splitting infinitives  but such inaccurate speech they wouldn't have passed the police entrance exams, mistaken vocabulary that a police officer wouldn't use and pronunciations and terminology none of us would. I couldn't understand why Nathaniel Parker in particular didn't speak out and remind them who his character was supposed to be, for instance pointing out that a real police inspector would know the words of the caution when making an arrest, or even just say the correct words. I found it very disappointing. 

Don't get me started on military [naval] films where they don't even know when to have their hats on or off.

[Mario D.]

56 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think they believe that by being hot Penny is automatically considered to be of a "top league" and having the possibility date almost anyone she wants. On the othet hand, I believe, they think by being nerdy and not hot Leonard is automatically considered to be of a "low league" and has much less options. Hence they felt the need to show that he is able to attract "good catches". Of course, I'm not saying these perceptions are true, just that they might be the motivations behind the dating narratives for Penny and Leonard. I do believe that some of the audience, especially casuals, hold such views. Some Youtube/Facebook comments show that. However, I think acting like the whole viewership is like that is somewhat disrespecting the audience. There were times when Penny and Leonard were treated like full characters and shown having multiple characteristics that make them who they are and make them connect as a couple. It is not that way anymore. They now stick to the "he wore her down" jokes that emphasize the unfortunate above mentioned views (bringing the disrespect for the audience to new highs).

Robin was a news reporter (and later anchor) and was shown covering weird (funny) stories. 

After reading your comments, I can't help to think back to season 9, episode 2 when the girls are talking over how Leonard was "unfaithful". Penny thought she was being naive about the situation and Bernadette pointed out that she made Leonard be more confident with women and maybe that confidence made him more desirable, but that she would rather have a guy be with her because he wants to be and not because he has no other choice. So in retrospect they probably helped each other and that is what makes them compatible.

[joyceraye]

2 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

 

Don't get me started on military [naval] films where they don't even know when to have their hats on or off.

I won't.  My answer has disappeared into thin air. No rudery I promise, just insufficient BBT references or allusions I suppose.

Edited May 19, 2017 by joyceraye

[JohnPhD]

1024 highlighted something that I think could be done better. In most sitcoms you have to have characters being nosey/ interfering about each others' lives to an extent that wouldn't be acceptable IRL, but sometimes as in this ep it goes too far. The other characters could surely have considered that if Sheldon is mature enough to decide that what he feels for Amy is what normal adults mean by "love", and to live with her, then he's also capable of deciding for himself whether he might prefer a fling (and perhaps more) with a woman with a modicum of sex appeal. It's not relevant what would be right, or what would be "cheating" - I'm just saying that Sheldon should have been left to handle the situation by himself (which as it turned out he did), and the rest missed a good opportunity to mind their own damn business.  Surely they can allow Sheldon  free will?

Incidentally, 1024 changed the past. In 208 The Cooper-Nowitzki theorem, Ramona's interest in Sheldon didn't appear to be sexual (and I assume that was what was intended); but now it appears she must have been all along.

[djsurrey]

8 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

It is up to the writers to maintain continuity not the Actors anyway. 

...and they could hire a consultant to help with that if they thought it was important enough. I wonder how much attention to period details the prequel series will make.

[djsurrey]

6 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

This television show is more than well-established. It has reached the point where it is now (wait for it---) legendary.

Is it really? Keep in mind tv is not what it used to be. Ed Sullivan was legendary. Just about everyone watched it!

6 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Now is the time to flex some storytelling muscles. To show us something that we have not seen. Is there a chance of being cancelled in the next two years? Hardly. People (TPTB) need to become brave.  People (TPTB) need to expand their horizons.  The Big Bang Theory is a 2,000 pound gorilla.  Perhaps it is time they act the part and take on all comers. 

I dont't think that will happen. I think TBBT will be used to help launch Young Sheldon and the big creative energy will go to the new show..