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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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35 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Do you think this will lead to permanent LA change? I really hope it will. But I've been given false hopes for so many times.☹️

I think that there's been a greenlight given to explore the issue, and the writers are jumping on it with such fervor I wonder how long they've been waiting to push forward. Amy was deliberately sent off to Detriot to put physical distance between her and Sheldon after their first sexual encounter to see what the overall audience reaction would be. I believe Molaro said that in an interview. And the one episode became two, and then there were comments from Johnny and Jim about wanting their characters to move forward but the writers or Chuck talking them out of such nonsense ideas and desires. The quote about not changing the DNA of the show was put out there. The second half of season 9 seemed like inconclusive wheel spinning, with "hey look, Mee Maw!" and karaoke and other distractions that amounted to very little. And they evolved so far they decided to open and end the season the same way - on Lenny getting married, or redoing getting married. It was some pretty weak rehash, and big milestones happened but nothing really changed too much. 

And my understanding is that ratings slipped a tad at the end there?

At this point, I'm curious what the deal is - are the actors pushing for things for their characters? Are the contract negotiations already on? They seemed so confident season 11 would be a go without a hitch, but it sounds more tense and unsure at this point. If the actors are bored or dislike the direction their characters are going, they'll speak up about it if the negotiations look to be in their favor. Do any of them really need more money at this point? So what would motivate them? Is Chuck noting the ratings and willing to freshen things up? Did Molaro sell him on a living arrangements experiment? Did he flat out say he has nothing to write for these characters if there areno plots taking them forward? 

I have no idea. But the wind is blowing a new direction. We'll have to see how long that lasts, and their track record for holding on with forward momentum in the second half of the season is shaky. So I feel this is a fairly radical shift, and the beginning of a plot line many fans have been talking about for a long, long time, but as Molaro said....they can still get out of this if they don't like it. So I think we just have to wait and see.

Edited by Lionne
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1 hour ago, camelliayao said:

Do you think this will lead to permanent LA change? I really hope it will. But I've been given false hopes for so many times.☹️

I hope so, at first I wanted it to happen right after the experiment (and would still be happy if they ultimately decided that) but I've kind of come around to April's thinking of them perhaps having a period of reflection after the experiment where Sheldon really misses Amy, Amy really misses Sheldon, Lenny miss their time alone especially at nights and you perhaps have an episode of them coming to terms with that.

I think it's kind of natural that maybe Amy might want to go back to her apartment and think about it all hopefully coming to the conclusion she doesn't want to be alone anymore and be with the man she loves. From this episode Sheldon is going all in but we shall see how he copes if they have more episodes focusing on this experiment or not and if they do a time jump. Lenny I have no worries about they would move into 4B now if they wanted to.

Then you have an episode where the changes are made permanent in a friendly this is the right thing for all parties sort of way, no conflict and no treating their friends who they love like shit.

At the end of the day who moves where who knows? I can see a potentially heated debate on the horizon  when it comes to who resides where if they make it permanent. I'll save my thoughts on that until I see if it is indeed permanent and who actually moves.

Edited by Jonny83
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2 hours ago, spidergirl1975 said:

I remember to read tapping reports of ep 8 and 9 of season 9 where some viewers commented about their mood as they watched it or the mood of the audience  as they saw some scenes that got them really down. I believe the tbbt staff noticed that stuff and to me it was what made the shamy reunion to happen after an episode of both dating other people (Sheldon tried at least, lol) and an episode of them trying to be friends. They could have explored more the shamy separation but they felt that some viewers could stop to watch the show and it could ruin the all thing if the ratings decreased much.

They do take the live audience into account - mostly in terms of how well the jokes work (if they don't they get rewritten on the spot) and when they go too far the audience will reign them in, cause as Lorre says in many interviews, they're very protective of the characters.

However, in the case of Shamy coitus they admitted that this was planned for a long time in advance and over the course of a couple months before it all fell into place. So I think this would have always been the end point of the big S9A Shamy-arc and everything earlier is geared towards that point. The whole reconciliation wasn't hastily thrown together because some Shamy shippers were sad about 9x08/09. And this goes with what @wowbagger said, that the audience reaction would have to be pretty extreme before they abandon their plans. Heck, the whole break-up was very upsetting for many viewers ever since 9x01 and yet the writers still carried on with that story arc.

So yeah, if they're set on changing the LAs permanently I can't even imagine the amount of hatemail needed to change their minds on that. Like @Lionne I think 10x04 might be the beginning of a mini-arc here that would neatly lead to some bigger permanent changes during sweeps.

But as usual, we gotta wait and see. I'm optimistic but also very patient at this point. It certainly helps that my gut feeling seems to be well in sync with the writers room somehow. LOL

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1 hour ago, Lionne said:

I think that there's been a greenlight given to explore the issue, and the writers are jumping on it with such fervor I wonder how long they've been waiting to push forward. Amy was deliberately sent off to Detriot to put physical distance between her and Sheldon after their first sexual encounter to see what the overall audience reaction would be. I believe Molaro said that in an interview. And the one episode became two, and then there were comments from Johnny and Jim about wanting their characters to move forward but the writers or Chuck talking them out of such nonsense ideas and desires. The quote about not changing the DNA of the show was put out there. The second half of season 9 seemed like inconclusive wheel spinning, with "hey look, Mee Maw!" and karaoke and other distractions that amounted to very little. And they evolved so far they decided to open and end the season the same way - on Lenny getting married, or redoing getting married. It was some pretty weak rehash, and big milestones happened but nothing really changed too much. 

And my understanding is that ratings slipped a tad at the end there?

At this point, I'm curious what the deal is - are the actors pushing for things for their characters? Are the contract negotiations already on? They seemed so confident season 11 would be a go without a hitch, but it sounds more tense and unsure at this point. If the actors are bored or dislike the direction their characters are going, they'll speak up about it if the negotiations look to be in their favor. Do any of them really need more money at this point? So what would motivate them? Is Chuck noting the ratings and willing to freshen things up? Did Molaro sell him on a living arrangements experiment? Did he flat out say he has nothing to write for these characters if there areno plots taking them forward? 

I have no idea. But the wind is blowing a new direction. We'll have to see how long that lasts, and their track record for holding on with forward momentum in the second half of the season is shaky. So I feel this is a fairly radical shift, and the beginning of a plot line many fans have been talking about for a long, long time, but as Molaro said....they can still get out of this if they don't like it. So I think we just have to wait and see.

I'm very surprised too that they actually shake up the big three and make some changes (even though temparary) because last season the writers were pretty stubborn in not wanting to change the show's "dynamic" in their interviews. It sounds like they made a180-degree turn.

Yesterday I was pretty sure that they won't just drop the 1004 storyline and ignore it becacuse it was an experiment and we were specificlly told that it would last "five weeks". But today I realized even with all those things, there could still be no follow ups...I guess I'm pyranoid lol. It's just, it's very confusing (good confusing of course) to me that the writers would suddenly change their minds. I know a lot of us shippers want more Shamy bed scenes. I do too. But I'll be good even if we won't be showed any, just as long as we'll be told they live together. What worries me is, just like coitus, the experiment will be only a one-time thing and nothing happens after that. Then I think I will get into the whole trouble of constantly wondering "Do Shamy really love each other because if they do, why don't they live togher? They already did the experiment and they like living with each other. So what went wrong???" And I'm still not out of the lasttrouble I got myself into, which is wondering"Does Sheldon really have desire for Amy because if he does, why haven't they have sex again since opening night? He already said he enjoyed it. So what went wrong?"

Edited by camelliayao
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17 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

 They already did the experiment and they like living with each other. So what went wrong???" And I'm still not out of the trouble I got myself into, which is wondering"Does Sheldon really have desire for Amy because if he does, why haven't they have sex again since opening night? He already said he enjoyed it. So what went wrong?"

I know what you mean. What bothers me sometimes is the ambiguous clues about what shamy do or not do and the time they take to give us answers. But I am a bit impatiente concerning  Tv show plots I really enjoy, lol. Especially about shamy, my fault! xD


As much as we get to know that Sheldon and Amy do some of the things a couple who lives together do , I dont need to see them all, although I think there are great potential for to show some domestical scenes that would turn in a good laugh  to viewers/fans. 

However,  a shamy make out scene after 13 episodes of season 9 after coitus and 4 of season 10 would not hurt anyone or damage anyhting.  Hope they surprise us about that soon :)

Edited by spidergirl1975
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45 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

I'm very surprised too that they actually shake up the big three and make some changes (even though temparary) because last season the writers were pretty stubborn in not wanting to change the show's "dynamic" in their interviews. It sounds like they made a180-degree turn.

Yesterday I was pretty sure that they won't just drop the 1004 storyline and ignore it becacuse it was an experiment and we were specificlly told that it would last "five weeks". But today I realized even with all those things, there could still be no follow ups...I guess I'm pyranoid lol. It's just, it's very confusing (good confusing of course) to me that the writers would suddenly change their minds. I know a lot of us shippers want more Shamy bed scenes. I do too. But I'll be good even if we won't be showed any, just as long as we'll be told they live together. What worries me is, just like coitus, the experiment will be only a one-time thing and nothing happens after that. Then I think I will get into the whole trouble of constantly wondering "Do Shamy really love each other because if they do, why don't they live togher? They already did the experiment and they like living with each other. So what went wrong???" And I'm still not out of the trouble I got myself into, which is wondering"Does Sheldon really have desire for Amy because if he does, why haven't they have sex again since opening night? He already said he enjoyed it. So what went wrong?"

I wouldn't worry about it too much, the experiment was/is more than just coitus it's about living together so it's much more all-encompassing than just one activity. They could have just had sleepovers with coitus and then gone back to more or less their usual routine, the fact they are living together is just a huge development and progress for them. I think more nights of passion will happen between them, living together is only going to increase the chances of that, so I wouldn't worry it will happen.

It's good to see you and other fellow Shamy fans so happy at this development. If you had asked most shippers before the season started what was your top 3 wishes for them this season then most would probably say in any order:

1. More intimacy.

2. Living together or sleepovers.

3. Engagement.

The way I see it and I fully believe this is they are intertwined and connected:

Living together--> Produces a stronger bond between them and allows them to develop more intimacy in their relationship = Engagement at some point.

So for me this development is just frelling massive and I couldn't be happier. I have literally been smiling for two days lol

Edited by Jonny83
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I'm wondering if the experiment is put there as a way of beginning to tie the story lines up if indeed season 10 is the end.  

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8 minutes ago, Shamyyes said:

I'm wondering if the experiment is put there as a way of beginning to tie the story lines up if indeed season 10 is the end.  

I don't know, I still think S. 11 is quite likely. It seems the actors are in the middle of negotiations and for me the jokes Kaley made during the Kimmel's Show reflect the fact they might be in a very crucial moment for their contracts. Anyway, if that's the case and the show doesn't get renewed for another season, I prefer the writers start to close the story lines properly and in advance, rather than a rushed final episode where everything happens in few minutes and you don't even realize how and why...the awful way Castle ended comes to mind, for example.

Edited by mirs1
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I just read the TR again, I assume Amy using the camera flash on her phone was to get back at Sheldon for nudging her out of bed and onto the floor? lol nice tidbit from Leonard used to perfection by Amy lol. I guess Sheldon is lucky she didn't bite him, I could have sworn that Penny said Amy has been known to bite in her sleep? Though I could be wrong.

Edited by Jonny83
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4 minutes ago, Jonny83 said:

I just read the TR again, I assume Amy using the camera flash on phone was to get back at Sheldon for nudging her out of bed and onto the floor? lol nice tidbit from Leonard used to perfection by Amy lol. I guess Sheldon is lucky she didn't bite him, I could have sworn that Penny said Amy has been known to bite in her sleep? Though I could be wrong.

I remembered that too! First night was Sheldon who didnt let Amy sleep. Maybe there will be a mention (or a scene, it would be great!) where Amy is who doesnt let Sheldon sleep. And with coitus still out of the table yet, lol!

BTW, great points have been made in last hours, as usual. :)

Edited by spidergirl1975
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1 minute ago, luminous said:

As a Lenny I'm not unhappy with this development either. :wink:

As a shamy, I join to lenny and dance with them  of joy :)

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12 minutes ago, luminous said:

As a Lenny I'm not unhappy with this development either. :wink:

If everyone benefits from this at the end of the day that can only be a good thing. I am no Lenny shipper but I do want them to end up happy as well. I love the show overall just as much as my particular ship.

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If there is a season 11, I wonder if TBBT is going to do another transition to a 2 couple show, where Shamy and Lenny become the main four and Howard, Raj and Bernadette become more of only support characters, the guys now only seen in the cafeteria or in specific guy plots and Bernadette only on girl get togethers, this would also allow the writers to minimize the baby/child, if the parents were not having their own plots.

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9 minutes ago, Jonny83 said:

If everyone benefits from this at the end of the day that can only be a good thing. I am no Lenny shipper but I do want them to end up happy as well. I love the show overall just as much as my particular ship.

Agree. I love the show overall just as much as shamy. TBBT is one of my favourites shows ever! 

 All characters truly deserve to be happy.  Included Stuart. He is not  a main character but I 'd really like that something great happen to him, beyond of showing us his creepiest and funniest side :) 

 

Edited by spidergirl1975
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5 hours ago, Lionne said:

I'm glad Lorre's name is on it, it means he's bought into the decision. Holland, Tara and Dave are my three favorite Shamy writers, so I'm not surprised the characters and their story are written so great when all 3 of them are on the script at the same time.

They've said numerous times that it doesn't matter what names are on the script. They're all working on it and just rotating through the names.

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1 hour ago, FileXxX said:

They've said numerous times that it doesn't matter what names are on the script. They're all working on it and just rotating through the names.

Hmmmm. I appreciate urging caution, but we may not be as hamstrung as that. Obviously these things are subjective, but you can, for example, come up with an index of your own personal take on any given episode, based on things like follow-through on promised plot developments, continuity, your own assessment of how funny it is etc.  If it really were random whose names showed up on the credits, then there would be no correlation* between the appearance of an author on the credits list and your index.** 

I haven't done this exercise, but it shouldn't be difficult, statistically speaking. And one of the great benefits of a long-running sitcom like this is that we have more than 200 episodes to play with. That's getting to be a decent-sized dataset. 

*Note that I say correlation, not causation. I seem to recall, for example, that I tend to quite like episodes where Dave Goetsch's name appears on the writing credits, but does that mean that Dave Goetsch=happy wowbagger? Not necessarily. And who can say? Once I've plugged in all the episodes in which his name appears, it may turn out that there's no correlation either.

** I'm assuming that you can do something like record your opinions of an episode in a way untainted with who wrote it e.g. by recording your impressions before you note who appears on the writing credits.

Edited by wowbagger
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7 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Hmmmm. I appreciate urging caution, but we may not be as hamstrung as that. Obviously these things are subjective, but you can, for example, come up with an index of your own personal take on any given episode, based on things like follow-through on promised plot developments, continuity, your own assessment of how funny it is etc.  If it really were random whose names showed up on the credits, then there would be no correlation* between the appearance of an author on the credits list and your index. 

I haven't done this exercise, but it shouldn't be difficult, statistically speaking. And one of the great benefits of a long-running sitcom like this is that we have more than 200 episodes to play with. That's getting to be a decent-sized dataset. 

*Note that I say correlation, not causation. I seem to recall, for example, that I tend to quite like episodes where Dave Goetsch's name appears on the writing credits, but does that mean that Dave Goetsch=happy wowbagger? Not necessarily. And who can say? Once I've plugged in all the episodes in which his name appears, it may turn out that there's no correlation either.

I don't know why I should come up with my own theory on why there are different names on the script, while the writers have told us already.

And based on my own experience, it doesn't matter in the slightest. Different episodes with identical names on the script never equally satisfied me. On the contrary, it fluctuates a lot.

3 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

...or one could just take their word on how the scripts are written.

Exactly.

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16 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I don't know why I should come up with my own theory on why there are different names on the script, while the writers have told us already.

And based on my own experience, it doesn't matter in the slightest. Different episodes with identical names on the script never equally satisfied me. On the contrary, it fluctuates a lot.

You....realise that your second line belies your first? Essentially, on some level, you are not adopting the 'simple faith is more than Norman blood' philosophy. You have already estimated that there's no link between how you feel about an episode and whose name is on the script - in other words, you've already done essentially what I described in my post. Maybe not painstakingly and with an index and what-have-you, but you've still assessed that in your view, it's random. You believe the writing team only because it confirms your own opinion - you didn't take the opinion from the writers as handed down from on high.

In any case: the writers say authorial credits are random. They may be or they may not be. My only point is that there may be a way to check that for yourself (non-specific 'you'). I am not suggesting, let alone demanding, that this be done.

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15 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

You believe the writing team only because it confirms your own opinion

No, I believe the writing team because they told me so. I'm basing my opinion on the things they said, not the other way around.

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Fantastic post jenafan, with so many good and interesting points. :icon_biggrin:

Edited by Jonny83
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5 hours ago, FileXxX said:

They've said numerous times that it doesn't matter what names are on the script. They're all working on it and just rotating through the names.

I take that as overall they all contribute to the writing process. But since they have several writers, it's very unlikely IMO that every episode is writen by all of the writers and they just pick names randomly to be written on the cover of the scripts. My guess is every week, one or two of the writers come up with the plot ideas and maybe others help modify it. They then discuss and write lines. 

Or, we could believe the writers 100%, which is also a choice. I'm not comparing which choice is better, I'm saying just because the writers said something, it doesn't mean it's the truth or we have to believe it. JMO of course.

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