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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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Ok I'm gong to type up a quick repost.. I's tired af and I didn't take notes so it will be brief. I will add dialog but it wont be accurate to the actual taping as there were lots of re-writes. T

Hi all. Just a quick report. Got to pack our bags for a flight to San Francisco in the morning Episode was called "The Separation Agitation". If anything it was centered on Bert and StuHowardette mor

OK, here's the full taping report, courtesy of a super kind and likeable person. A million thanks to her. The unaltered wording reads as follows:  

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1 minute ago, Lagernisse said:

He looks way to happy for me, but to be honest I have no idea how a drug dealer looks like.:icon_biggrin:

Could have been like a choirboy when younger but just fell in with a bad crowd. He doesn't look a stereotypical drug dealing sent to prison kind of guy but not all look like that lol

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12 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

 

Oh yeah, they didn't want to mess with the DNA of the show.  

You know, good thing they kept Howard sleezy toward women...what's that?  He got married almost five years ago and his wife is expecting a child.  Evidently a sleezy Howard wasn't part of the DNA.

Howard's DNA wasn't sleazy. He was abandoned and had a weird relationship with his mother. When he found Bernadette, she fixed him. She loved him "unconditionally" (for the most part) and provided what he was needing. It's called character growth.

 

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

Well, at least they kept the fact the Raj has to drink to speak with women.  No?  I guess that wasn't part of the DNA either.  

We really don't know why Raj couldn't talk to women. It was psychological. When he was hurt by Lucy, he needed to vent. The only person around was Penny, a girl. One problem overrid the other.

 

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

Well, the part where they wrote where Sheldon wants nothing to do with women or coitus is still in there, right?  Say what, he's got a girlfriend and thought about proposing to her?   Damn, another part of the show from the beginning that doesn't seem to be part of the DNA.

Again, Sheldon hadn't met someone who could make him change SOME of his opinions on women and coitus. Amy did. They shared some of them and grew together (Amy a little faster). Sheldon was a little boy emotionally. It's called character growth.

 

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

What about Penny the actress and hot girl across the hall?   Oh, she gave up on acting, quit The Cheesecake Factory, and got a job as a pharmaceutical rep, and married Leonard.  More DNA down the drain.

Penny had a childhood dream to become an actress and be rich, famous and happy. It didn't happen. Life happened. So she had to get a real job. It's called character growth.

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2 hours ago, Jonny said:

Could have been like a choirboy when younger but just fell in with a bad crowd. He doesn't look a stereotypical drug dealing sent to prison kind of guy but not all look like that lol

I honestly thought that was the comedy of it all...? We've heard about this drug dealer brother of her's for years, so to finally "meet him" and be confronted with this straight-laced, happy looking guy? Classic.

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I honestly thought that was the comedy of it all...? We've heard about this drug dealer brother of her's for years, so to finally "meet him" and be confronted with this straight-laced, happy looking guy? Classic.


He looks more of a nerd than a drug dealer. I guess TPTB didn't want to stereotype.

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1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 Except, for some reason, they haven't had the balls to include Leonard and Penny in that character growth by letting them move out.  Do TPTB have so little confidence in their writers, they don't think them capable of handling Leonard and Penny if they move out?  

As a guess the problem is that TBBT was created as the amalgamation of two concepts:

1. A bunch of super smart academics loosely based on Bill Pradies own experiences.

2. A young women who moves to California and her struggles. Chuck Lorre contribution as a concept.

The series has been more successful than they dreamed it would be an Lenny with normal living arrangements leaves the original concepts in the rear view mirror. Not only that but Ckuck's contribution appears to have been  the part that was greatly altered by the rejection of the original pilot. He has already done Dharma & Greg; perhaps Lenny on their own would feel too much like a redo of that. Or perhaps he is afraid of that comparison.

Or perhaps they just wanted to make sure they really had milked out as much as they possibly could of the original LA before they let things shift. I think this is were the truth sits. No one knows how well the show will work once it is changed so they have worked at squeezing every drop out they could first.

 

30 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

I honestly thought that was the comedy of it all...? We've heard about this drug dealer brother of her's for years, so to finally "meet him" and be confronted with this straight-laced, happy looking guy? Classic.

Perhaps more like a con man than a stereotypical drug dealer.

Edited by djsurrey

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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

If they decide it isn't working they move Sheldon back to 4A, Amy back to her apartment, and you return to having all three of them back in 4A.   

And if the move it back AND KEEP IT BACK then they will be pissing off A LOT of fans, not just the shippers and they don't want to piss off that many fans.

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25 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

 

The series has been more successful than they dreamed it would be an Lenny with normal living arrangements leaves the original concepts in the rear view mirror.

What about they original concepts for Sheldon?  Howard?  Raj?  Aren't those concepts gone also?  

 

 

25 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Not only that but Ckuck's contribution appears to have been  the part that was greatly altered by the rejection of the original pilot. He has already done Dharma & Greg; perhaps Lenny on their own would feel too much like a redo of that. Or perhaps he is afraid of that comparison.

Hmmmmmmm mother with kids who has had substance abuse problems.  Sound like another of Chuck's shows, doesn't it?   Well, it should, as it's the premise of Grace Under Fire.   I bet you thought I meant Mom.  So it does't appear that Chuck is worried that it might feel too much like a redo or he's afraid of the comparison.   

 

Quote

Or perhaps they just wanted to make sure they really had milked out as much as they possibly could of the original LA before they let things shift. I think this is were the truth sits. No one knows how well the show will work once it is changed so they have worked at squeezing every drop out they could first.

How well did the show work without a Sleezy Howard?   It certainly took a dive when the gave Sheldon a girlfriend, didn't it?  

They had no problems with changing Sheldon, changing Raj, or with changing Howard.  Or introducing two new characters.  That changed all the original concepts also.  

  I've simply had a problem with this since mid season eight, before they got married.  In season 9, Lenny living, by themselves in 4B, would not have changed any of the plots.  Minor rewrites of a few scenes would have fixed any inconsistencies with a plot.  I've come to believe it's more a lack of confidence in the writers or a failure of vision by TPTB more than anything else. 

12 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

And if the move it back AND KEEP IT BACK then they will be pissing off A LOT of fans, not just the shippers and they don't want to piss off that many fans.

They pissed off a lot of fans at several different points during the run.  One more isn't going to bother them, especially if they are aware the show is ending anyway.  Not to mention they are going to piss a lot of fans off, if they have Lenny move out, because Sheldon decides it's time. What would be especially funny would be for Sheldon to decide it's time they move out, and they tell him to go to hell. 

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1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

And if the move it back AND KEEP IT BACK then they will be pissing off A LOT of fans, not just the shippers and they don't want to piss off that many fans.

I don't know if it would piss off a lot of fans or not because I don't know what the vast majority of casual viewers think of the Living situation (it seems to bother us a lot more than casual viewers I would suspect). But I know I would be pissed off for sure.

I was totally against the idea of reversing it after finally hearing it happened but April made a very good case and convinced me that a period of reflection after the experiment so back to status quo for an episode or two could work and provide some interesting dialogue and scenes. But imo they would have to make it pretty clear very early on that Sheldon misses Amy, Amy misses Sheldon and Lenny miss some of the freedom.

Edited by Jonny
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9 minutes ago, Tensor said:

How well did the show work without a Sleezy Howard?   It certainly took a dive when the gave Sheldon a girlfriend, didn't it?  

They had no problems with changing Sheldon, changing Raj, or with changing Howard.  Or introducing two new characters.  That changed all the original concepts also.

Howard and Raj are peripheral and did not even exist in the original pilot.  Just part of Sheldon and Leonard's entourage. 

I think Leonard has changed the least because he is the point around which everything revolves. So much so that in recent years he has started to look like a pole that Sheldon and Penny swirl around.

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They are married, still living with Sheldon in 4A.  Moving Sheldon over to 4B shouldn't have come as some surprise.  It's actually a very sneaky move on the part of the writers and TPTB.  If they decide it isn't working they move Sheldon back to 4A, Amy back to her apartment, and you return to having all three of them back in 4A.   If Lenny had moved over there, it's tougher to justify them moving Lenny back into 4A, to return to the status quo,  even if Amy moved out of Leonard's room.  


Totally agree. I think the experiment is another excuse by TPTB to delay the LA and keep the main 3 together. Think about it if they move Lenny to 4B that is it they cannot reverse that change because it wouldn't make sense as Lenny are married and should be living together. So to shut the audience up for a while, moving Shamy to 4b disguised as an experiment is a way of not splitting up the big 3 permanently. Experiment over, success or not Sheldon moves back to 4A Amy goes back to her apartment, show moves on until the next time people whining and they have to revisit the LA again which will give them enough time to think up another excuse to keep status quo.

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They are married, still living with Sheldon in 4A.  Moving Sheldon over to 4B shouldn't have come as some surprise.  It's actually a very sneaky move on the part of the writers and TPTB.  If they decide it isn't working they move Sheldon back to 4A, Amy back to her apartment, and you return to having all three of them back in 4A.   If Lenny had moved over there, it's tougher to justify them moving Lenny back into 4A, to return to the status quo,  even if Amy moved out of Leonard's room.  


Totally agree. I think the experiment is another excuse by TPTB to delay the LA and keep the main 3 together. Thinking about it if they move Lenny to 4B that is it they cannot reverse that change because it wouldn't make sense as Lenny are married and should be living together. So to shut the audience up for a while, moving Shamy to 4b disguised as an experiment is a way of not splitting up the big 3 permanently. Experiment over, success or not Sheldon moves back to 4A Amy goes back to her apartment, show moves on until the next time people whining and they have to revisit the LA again which will give them enough time to think up another excuse to keep status quo.

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58 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

What about they original concepts for Sheldon?  Howard?  Raj?  Aren't those concepts gone also?  

Honestly, I think the original concepts for Sheldon are not gone yet, based on how they portrayed Sheldon in Opening Night (little evidence of desire) and all the episodes after that. I also think that the emphasis on how SPL are a family and that nothing can part them mainly comes from the writers believing this is a part of the original concepts of Sheldon. Because like you said having Lenny move to 4B would have no little impact on the plots and it will make Lenny fans happy. So why didn't they do that? Because if Lenny moves out, they will have to deal with Sheldon living with Amy. And I'm afraid Shamy living together would be changing the "original concept" of Sheldon.

These sudden attitude changes of the writers on several subjects including Sheldon's desire (before and after Opening Night), LA change (not wanting to change the show's dynamic last season vs Molaro's "as long as these people hang together, the show's still the same). Lenny's attitude towards living with Sheldon etc, makes me believe @wowbagger's "theory", or fanfic, should I say. A part of the writers' team didn't agree to changing Sheldon in the first place. But they had to go with it because they wanted more seasons. So they make sure from time to time that Sheldon's still the same, even though this might create inconsistencies in the plots. Shamy progressing ridiculously slow and Lenny living with Sheldon a year after their wedding are just results of conflicting opinions in the writers' room.

I wouldn't be surprised if they take a few steps back again this time. I seriously doubt the experiment will lead to a permanent LA change. IMO if the change is permanent, this is probably the last season of the show. As for pissing off the audience, I suppose general audience wouldn't care who lives where or with whom?

 

3 hours ago, Tensor said:

They are married, still living with Sheldon in 4A.  Moving Sheldon over to 4B shouldn't have come as some surprise.  It's actually a very sneaky move on the part of the writers and TPTB.  If they decide it isn't working they move Sheldon back to 4A, Amy back to her apartment, and you return to having all three of them back in 4A.   If Lenny had moved over there, it's tougher to justify them moving Lenny back into 4A, to return to the status quo,  even if Amy moved out of Leonard's room.  

This makes so much sense. At first I was surprised Sheldon would agree to leave his apartment and move to 4B. The "neutral zone" theory sounds far-fetched to me. Now your theory explains everything.

Edited by camelliayao
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2 hours ago, shamyyellow said:

I honestly thought that was the comedy of it all...? We've heard about this drug dealer brother of her's for years, so to finally "meet him" and be confronted with this straight-laced, happy looking guy? Classic.

IMHO, it's just bad casting

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3 hours ago, Tensor said:

They are married, still living with Sheldon in 4A.  Moving Sheldon over to 4B shouldn't have come as some surprise.  It's actually a very sneaky move on the part of the writers and TPTB.  If they decide it isn't working they move Sheldon back to 4A, Amy back to her apartment, and you return to having all three of them back in 4A.   If Lenny had moved over there, it's tougher to justify them moving Lenny back into 4A, to return to the status quo,  even if Amy moved out of Leonard's room.

I  wouldn't be surprised one bit if the writers and/or TPTB decided to move Shamy back to 4A, for some strange reason. 

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I  wouldn't be surprised one bit if the writers and/or TPTB decided to move Shamy back to 4A, for some strange reason. 


That is not going to happen. It's all about the big 3. The clue is in the premier of S10. The main 3 hug and Bernadette comment. No matter what ppls want to believe, it's not a throwaway line.

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37 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Moving them over to 4B, is, IMHO, a good thing.

If they were in 4A, they might be sleeping in separate rooms, but, in 4B, unless one of them lives out E.M. Snickering's The Tall Man From Cornwall, then they have to share a bed.

It should be interesting to see how the man who can't tolerate others in his room could contemplate this.

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6 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

He looks way to happy for me, but to be honest I have no idea how a drug dealer looks like.:icon_biggrin:

For a character that we know has been involved in the meth scene for years, that actor as Penny's brother is the most ridiculous casting ever, and makes light of a huge meth epidemic that's killing off hundreds of thousands in the US. There are currently towns here where drug related deaths are outnumbering deaths by old age and natural causes. And the look of many meth chemists and users is quite distinct, with the notorious "meth mouth", meth scabs, emaciated bodies, and dead eyes the usual giveaways to a meth user.

I know that Penny's brother was more of a chemist, so perhaps he was not using so much, but there was a time he had run away from rehab. He's been in jail. And the danger and sheer toxicity of the chemicals used in meth leave their mark too. Having Mr. Golden Haired, innocent looking boy with all his big white horse teeth show up as a longtime, hardcore member of the meth drug scene is just ridiculous, to the point it's offensive towards a very real issue that's crippling America's heartland. Meth has because the #1 problem facing middle America, and is certainly becoming a major problem here in Seattle, where I live, as well. Casting that actor in the role is just a joke, and one in poor taste considering what meth is and what meth does. 

Edited by Lionne
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