[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Nogravitasatall]

6 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

This bothers me so much tbh (I know a number of people who believe it).I have many guy friends and one of my two very best friends is also a guy.What if one gets in a relationship?He will always be my best friend.

This is a fair way to view it, but I feel Judith may have overstated the situation. I suggest it's more about content rather than gendered assumptions. I'd like to say that the show is more like say Coca-Cola, except here New Coke actually won the market, and some are still pining for Classic. 

And marriage changes everything. That's the point of it. And I don't see a lot of the L/P marriage to counterbalance what we see of the Sheldon/Penny content. So the flavour is off.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[nibbler747]

7 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

This is a fair way to view it, but I feel Judith may have overstated the situation. I suggest it's more about content rather than gendered assumptions. I'd like to say that the show is more like say Coca-Cola, except here New Coke actually won the market, and some are still pining for Classic. 

And marriage changes everything. That's the point of it. And I don't see a lot of the L/P marriage to counterbalance what we see of the Sheldon/Penny content. So the flavour is off.

Just trying to understand, but how does marriage change everything?  (in terms of friendships)  If they were friends before the marriage, then why can't they be friends after?

[joyceraye]

On 9/21/2016 at 4:49 AM, Lady in Red said:

Just back from the taping tonight.  "The Hot Tub Contamination".  Quick Synopsis.  Bernadette and Howard plan a trip to Palm Springs, but cancel since Bernie gets sick.  Howard had told Raj and Stuart about the trip, but B/H decide to vacation at home without telling their friends.  So, Stuart and Raj come and share an evening in their hot tub thinking that they are not at home.  In the meantime, Sheldon and Amy are bickering as they continue their experiment living together.  Several scenes with Sheldon seeking advice from Penny, and Amy seeking advice from Leonard.  Sweet ending that will make Shamy fans very happy.  

I took notes so I will work on a more complete taping report now.  The filming went very quickly tonight, with very few muffed lines.

Thanks very much, Lady.

Just now, joyceraye said:

Just back from the taping tonight.  "The Hot Tub Contamination".  Quick Synopsis.  Bernadette and Howard plan a trip to Palm Springs, but cancel since Bernie gets sick.  Howard had told Raj and Stuart about the trip, but B/H decide to vacation at home without telling their friends.  So, Stuart and Raj come and share an evening in their hot tub thinking that they are not at home.  In the meantime, Sheldon and Amy are bickering as they continue their experiment living together.  Several scenes with Sheldon seeking advice from Penny, and Amy seeking advice from Leonard.  Sweet ending that will make Shamy fans very happy.  

I took notes so I will work on a more complete taping report now.  The filming went very quickly tonight, with very few muffed lines.

 

Just now, joyceraye said:

Thanks very much, Lady.

Sorry. Lady in Red's post was 4.49 am Wednesday (8.49 pm Tuesday) and I've just noticed I hadn't clicked 'submit' because I was also whingeing about what was wrong with the chat function. Better late than never,as they say.

[joyceraye]

51 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

Just trying to understand, but how does marriage change everything?  (in terms of friendships)  If they were friends before the marriage, then why can't they be friends after?

In my experience it depends on a few things. An important one is whether you knew both parties before they got married, and for how long. Another is the basis of the friendship and how it has been conducted. Something that can change with a friend of either sex is that after the marriage the friend starts to lead a different way of life that eventually you'll play less of a part in.

[Tensor]

Not so much a marriage, but also serious relationships.  Things you once shared with your friend, is now shared with your SO.  I have a female friend, but our relationship change when we got seriously involved with others.  Of course, in the show they are in much closer quarters. 

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, nibbler747 said:

Just trying to understand, but how does marriage change everything?  (in terms of friendships)  If they were friends before the marriage, then why can't they be friends after?

I'm trying to understand too so does it means it okay to live with your wife and best friend? It seems Lenny should be more important now to each other not to Sheldon. We are not seeing their married life like we do Howdette's. We are seeing just as many Shenny and Shelnard storylines than ever. I don't think any one really suggesting they can't be friends but it can't be exactly like it was before they got married.

 

[ShamyBabboos]

Just now, Chrismo said:

I'm trying to understand too so does it means it okay to live with your wife and best friend? It seems Lenny should be more important now to each other not to Sheldon. We are not seeing their married life like we do Howdette's. We are seeing just as many Shenny and Shelnard storylines than ever. I don't think any one really suggesting they can't be friends but it can't be exactly like it was before they got married.

 

I can see where you're coming from and can agree that I would love to see Lenny's married life like Howardette's but, with both characters being two out of the "main trio", I highly doubt it'll happen. With Howardette it can because Howard more a secondary character. More like Bernadette than Leonard as far as storylines go. Which is why his marriage came first with Bernie than Leonard's (the writers knew that Howard's marriage wouldn't have any affect on the main trio.)

It sucks and while I'm not a Lenny shipper, I too would like more of a glimpse into their marriage without Sheldon. Maybe even a storyline or two would be nice. Not saying that each couple needs 3-4 separate story lines each episode, but a few throughout the season would be nice. We're still pretty early in the season, so we may see that in time.

[Nogravitasatall]

4 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

Just trying to understand, but how does marriage change everything?  (in terms of friendships)  If they were friends before the marriage, then why can't they be friends after?

Penny and Sheldon can be  good friends of course, but if you are lucky your spouse is your best friend. There is a hierarchy, I believe. And Penny and Leonard say often they are best friends. Marriage is a declaration of a singular commitment that mostly trumps other relationships.

However, the show just isn't configured to explore any depth in the L/P marriage.  We don't see much L/P joking around for instance - it's all about them and Sheldon. I've been in a relationship and have had a live-in house guest simultaneously. In my opinion, being married AND living in a shared space is much less rewarding than being married and having your own space . Penny and Leonard sacrificed quite a bit to humour Sheldon. 

My stupid hope was that once L/P married I would see more of their story. I was foolish of course. My expectations were prejudiced by my experience.

Penny is friends with Sheldon and that is what they want the show to be about. It's not about Leonard and Penny being married. They can do the former, but I don't get any joy out of watching it.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[Carlos]

10 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

 

Sorry quote function doesn't appear to be working.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 6:29 PM, FileXxX said:

I never understood that kind of logic that is often used on this board. The whole thing is written. Nothing ever happens unintendedly in this show.

OK, let's re-phrase this so you don't have a problem with it: "The writers have the other characters put up with Sheldon's insults because they don't mind writing other characters inconsistently for the sake of making Sheldon sound what they perceive as funny"  Is that OK with you?

[3ku11]

IT has been ten years, and Sheldon still gets away with degrading Leonard, partic his work, and does not get comeuppance. Every character on this show has, not Sheldon. He even critizsed Leonard's father, for being a mediocre acadamic, because of course it is Leonard's father. Beyond being a long running gag, why does Sheldon keep getting away with this? Because the writers allow him too. All the characters have been embarassed, or got their comeuppance at some stage. When Leonard was doing the dirty on Priya, oh I banged my ex, Leonard got comeuppance. When Penny was upset over Leonard and Priya, comeuppance for the guys you dated in Leonard's face. I could use other examples for other characters.

ONly examples for Sheldon I can think of, is Bernadette calling out Sheldon for him degrading Howard. If Bernadette can, why can't Penny? Simple writers won't allow her to. And now him standing up, I just have to say this I am not dieing, I don't need to use Number One haha. What I am about to say, is not urgent in anyway. But I just HAVE tell you this, its not that I have to tell you this, you prob already guess I appreciate you. But his highess Sheldon Cooper needs to validate their marrage. Oh Leonard how do you feel getting such validation from the god himself? Sheldon Cooper? Well tbh a bit inconvinient, I rather he wait 5 mins, so I could snog my wife .

ETA: The fact the poll for 10x01 has majority Excellent, does that mean it was an Excellent episode? 

Edited September 23, 2016 by 3ku11

[Lina78]

I would prefer Sheldon say all these things about his father and urges to Leonard and not Penny. He is his best friend and a man.

[Jonny]

24 minutes ago, Lina78 said:

I would prefer Sheldon say all these things about his father and urges to Leonard and not Penny. He is his best friend and a man.

Penny is way more 'life smart' than Leonard so I can understand why he opens up to Penny and seeks her advice or guidance on certain things. A plus point to me is in these last two TR episodes is that Amy and Leonard seem to be interacting more and that could be a good thing. Overall I am glad that Lenny are trying to help their friends, it's what friends do but also benefits them in the longer term if they can help make their friends living situation experiment a success.

Leonard is Sheldon's best friend but Penny must be pretty high up in Sheldon's list of friends imo.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Jonny

[wowbagger]

4 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

............................

However, the show just isn't configured to explore any depth in the L/P marriage.

...........................

Penny is friends with Sheldon and that is what they want the show to be about. It's not about Leonard and Penny being married. They can do the former, but I don't get any joy out of watching it.

I would argue that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of depth or specificity to any of the relationships, romantic or otherwise, in the show. By which I mean that I don't get a particular sense of what keeps them together except for inertia. Let's take the Big Three for the time being.

1) Shelnard: Let me say right now that- my snickering about romantic!Shelnard aside- I have never gotten a sustained sense that Leonard even likes Sheldon that much (and, you know, why should he?), so much as that he is drawn to hyperanalytical, hypercritical intellectuals (Thank you, Mommy!). And I guess Leonard likes being needed? Which is interesting and all that, but also suggests that what Shelnard have is co-dependence, not a friendship (which Penny brought up once, and which was promptly whisked under the carpet. Oh, the festival of missed opportunities that was Season Nine). And in that case - sorry, but then if you like both characters individually, what you're rooting for is amicable separation, not continued co-dependence. Whether with or without Penny, Leonard and Sheldon need to disengage from each other.

2) Shenny: Now, on the other hand, I do (or at least did) get a sense that Sheldon and Penny like each other. What helps here is that we saw the friendship begin before our eyes (similarly with Shelowitz to some extent), whereas Shelnard have the tougher sell of trying to get us to believe that Sheldon and Leonard were and are friends and the spadework of the friendship had been done off-screen. Whereas with Sheldon and Penny, I can identify the antagonism, mutual bafflement and grudging respect that the two formed. I can say 'Penny pulls Sheldon out of his comfort zone, and Sheldon offers her a perspective uncluttered by sentiment, admiration or desire in any way.' It is, or was, enormous fun. The stuff we're seeing now is a distinctly watered-down 'Penny is now another one of Sheldon's caretakers - possibly his preferred one'. Not only nowhere near as fun, but the particular value of the Shenny friendship has been lost somewhere.

3) Lenny: Eish. I'm sorry, Lenny friends, but the writers' comfort zone with romances has been identified. It is 'adolescent angst'. The writers were fine with Lenny having a will-they-won't-they, shooting longing glances at each other from across the hall, miscommunicating, misunderstanding, rolling in the hay to patch up quarrels etc. When it comes to an adult relationship, they are mostly stumped. Almost (thank God, not entirely) the only way they can write Lenny recently is to pout and whine about their insecurities or secrets they're keeping from each other. Even adult worries (like financial problems) are written so fantastically unrealistically that you can't take them seriously. Oh, you have debt? You have loans? You know what might help with that? NOT PAYING RENT FOR TWO FLATS. And yes, the living arrangements don't help with that. But the living arrangements are a symbol of the writers' own petrified refusal to pull their fingers out and actually write for Lenny as an adult couple. They have Sheldon inserting himself into Lenny's marriage because they are terrified of what will happen when they don't have the crutch of the six-foot-tall child/pet/diabolus ex machina. 

Well, we'll see how the living arrangements play out, and whether we get some more sense of Lenny's settling into their new lives. Apart from dance parties in their underwear and changing the locks. 

[Tonstar17]

I would argue that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of depth or specificity to any of the relationships, romantic or otherwise, in the show. By which I mean that I don't get a particular sense of what keeps them together except for inertia. Let's take the Big Three for the time being.
1) Shelnard: Let me say right now that- my snickering about romantic!Shelnard aside- I have never gotten a sustained sense that Leonard even likes Sheldon that much (and, you know, why should he?), so much as that he is drawn to hyperanalytical, hypercritical intellectuals (Thank you, Mommy!). And I guess Leonard likes being needed? Which is interesting and all that, but also suggests that what Shelnard have is co-dependence, not a friendship (which Penny brought up once, and which was promptly whisked under the carpet. Oh, the festival of missed opportunities that was Season Nine). And in that case - sorry, but then if you like both characters individually, what you're rooting for is amicable separation, not continued co-dependence. Whether with or without Penny, Leonard and Sheldon need to disengage from each other.
2) Shenny: Now, on the other hand, I do (or at least did) get a sense that Sheldon and Penny like each other. What helps here is that we saw the friendship begin before our eyes (similarly with Shelowitz to some extent), whereas Shelnard have the tougher sell of trying to get us to believe that Sheldon and Leonard were and are friends and the spadework of the friendship had been done off-screen. Whereas with Sheldon and Penny, I can identify the antagonism, mutual bafflement and grudging respect that the two formed. I can say 'Penny pulls Sheldon out of his comfort zone, and Sheldon offers her a perspective uncluttered by sentiment, admiration or desire in any way.' It is, or was, enormous fun. The stuff we're seeing now is a distinctly watered-down 'Penny is now another one of Sheldon's caretakers - possibly his preferred one'. Not only nowhere near as fun, but the particular value of the Shenny friendship has been lost somewhere.
3) Lenny: Eish. I'm sorry, Lenny friends, but the writers' comfort zone with romances has been identified. It is 'adolescent angst'. The writers were fine with Lenny having a will-they-won't-they, shooting longing glances at each other from across the hall, miscommunicating, misunderstanding, rolling in the hay to patch up quarrels etc. When it comes to an adult relationship, they are mostly stumped. Almost (thank God, not entirely) the only way they can write Lenny recently is to pout and whine about their insecurities or secrets they're keeping from each other. Even adult worries (like financial problems) are written so fantastically unrealistically that you can't take them seriously. Oh, you have debt? You have loans? You know what might help with that? NOT PAYING RENT FOR TWO FLATS. And yes, the living arrangements don't help with that. But the living arrangements are a symbol of the writers' own petrified refusal to pull their fingers out and actually write for Lenny as an adult couple. They have Sheldon inserting himself into Lenny's marriage because they are terrified of what will happen when they don't have the crutch of the six-foot-tall child/pet/diabolus ex machina. 
Well, we'll see how the living arrangements play out, and whether we get some more sense of Lenny's settling into their new lives. Apart from dance parties in their underwear and changing the locks. 

You missed out Shamy. Oh well. Must have the perfect relationship.

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[3ku11]

I love the Shenny friendship, yes I said that. Lenny are my OTP, And I have always got a kick out of SP. Because they are so non threatning to me. I don't see anything ever getting in the way of Lenny. Let alone Sheldon LOL. They have known each other over a decade. IT used to be an uncanny, dynamic. Now I beleive partly due to Leonard. IT has grown to a great friendship. Penny is allowed male Friends, even if it is Sheldon. I think Sheldon appreciates Penny's life smarts, she is his confidant. They are very similar to Leonard and Sheldon, love/hate. But Love endures more then hate. Comic Chemistry has evolved into mutual respect. I used to get all hot in the collar about them, now? I am like heh. This is a credit to the writers, who over the past 5 seasons have showed how strong Lenny are. So I See why some say Sheldon should of gone to Leonard, i guess seeing his father cheated too. But I think he see's Penny has a sounding board, neither care what each otehr think of each other. Where as they care deeply what Leonard and Amy think. 

As for how they write Lenny. I love how they are writing them. just pouting, their insecurites, their loans, depts. That is why I Ship them! They are so realistically written. They are not a fairytale, and sometimes it is a drag watching them. Relationships are not perfect, and Lenny are indictaive of this. But I see it as banter, more then anything. I Don't think their is anything wrong with how they are writing Lenny. I Think it has been great tbh. Their seems a a suggestion Lenny only got married because of Sheldon. I Don't buy that for a second. Lenny is Sheldons crutch, not the other way around. You coculd argue Sheldon is using Lenny as an excuse, not to mvoe forwrd with Amy. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Tensor
Removed comments about other posters

[wowbagger]

42 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

You missed out Shamy. Oh well. Must have the perfect relationship.

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Yes. Absolutely. That is exactly the construction to place on my recent posts on the subject of the Shamy.

And also on this:

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

I would argue that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of depth or specificity to any of the relationships, romantic or otherwise, in the show.

And also on this:

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

Let's take the Big Three for the time being.

 

 

[Tonstar17]

It mean absolutely nothing to me. You specifically pointed out your issues with Lenny and shenny, why not the same courtesy for Shamy.

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[April]

25 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Yes. Absolutely. That is exactly the construction to place on my recent posts on the subject of the Shamy.

Gotta say it's so funny to me that you of all people are being accused of not being critical enough about Shamy. LOL

[Mislav]

23 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

It mean absolutely nothing to me. You specifically pointed out your issues with Lenny and shenny, why not the same courtesy for Shamy.

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He's been doing that for over a year now. (Not a criticism, a fact.) One post where that isn't explicitly adressed and it's unfair somehow?

[wowbagger]

22 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

It mean absolutely nothing to me. You specifically pointed out your issues with Lenny and shenny, why not the same courtesy for Shamy.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
 

(blinks) .....because the conversation to which I was responding was about Sheldon's friendship with Penny and how it affected Lenny? I mean, I can talk about my issues with the Shamy if you like. Again. Some more. 

[Cue legions of posters who have worn out their scroll buttons sending you PMs saying 'WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL, DUDE?!?']

[Judith]

Nevermind that wowbagger said that she'll talk about the big three for the time being. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Tensor
removed comments directed at another poster.

[April]

2 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

(blinks) .....because the conversation to which I was responding was about Sheldon's friendship with Penny and how it affected Lenny? I mean, I can talk about my issues with the Shamy if you like. Again. Some more. 

[Cue legions of posters who have worn out their scroll buttons sending you PMs saying 'WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL, DUDE?!?']

We'd be here all day like...

[wowbagger]

5 minutes ago, April said:

We'd be here all day like...

I know, right? It's not like I need the invitation in the first place. BUT SINCE YOU INSIST....

[April]

9 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

I know, right? It's not like I need the invitation in the first place. BUT SINCE YOU INSIST....

LOL

[Tonstar17]

4 hours ago, wowbagger said:

(blinks) .....because the conversation to which I was responding was about Sheldon's friendship with Penny and how it affected Lenny? I mean, I can talk about my issues with the Shamy if you like. Again. Some more. 
[Cue legions of posters who have worn out their scroll buttons sending you PMs saying 'WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL, DUDE?!?']

 

I don't read long posts. It bores me

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