[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[2L344]

52 minutes ago, Judith said:

Just to be clear, I know that a Shenny coupling isn't what you suggested.

Now, I have a couple of points about these. In 7.21 Amy expressed jealousy over how close Sheldon and Penny are. In the same episode we had the psychic tell Sheldon to give himself to his relationship with Amy, which in part means to stop pushing her away. So there's that.

In 9.21 Amy says she's sometimes annoyed at how close Sheldon and Penny are. After two years "jealous" has become "sometimes annoyed". When Leonard questioned her she explained that Penny always comforts Sheldon (and the medicine line which I find unimportant) and later in the episode she accuses Penny of always defending him.

This "intimacy" looks very one-sided. Amy is annoyed with Penny's behaviour and as for Sheldon, he's never favoured Penny over Amy, so to me Amy has nothing to be annoyed about (though I can understand why she would still feel like that).

As for Sheldon confiding in Penny vs Amy, like you said he has recently started to do that with Amy more. And IMO nothing beats Solder.

I guess I'm misunderstanding you-- you believe the "intimacy" of the Sheldon-Penny friendship to be one-sided? By which side? I think the show has shown the close friendship to be mutually felt by them both. No, I don't think Sheldon favors Penny over Amy at all- one is a close friend and the other his girlfriend (who once was a friend who was a girl but not a girlfriend lol). But I do think, in the past anyway, that he has from time to time felt more comfortable sharing things with Penny than Amy and that is what Amy alluded to in 7.21 and sort of in 9.21. I do believe that issue is changing for the better though (like you point out, the hoarding episode is prime example of that) and that's a great thing. But I stand by my response to Jonny that Penny is high on the friend list with Sheldon and they share a mutual platonic affection for one another.

 

[serena_1995]

32 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

 

Sheldon carried the explosive into the elevator himself.

Sheldon put Raj up when Leonard and Priya were making Raj's place unbearable.

Sheldon sought out Zack for Amy when she was horny.

Sheldon was willing to leave Amy to finish her date with Dave.

Sheldon was perfectly willing to split the royalties from the invention three ways so that Howard could have a share.

Sheldon gave Stuart his blessing to date Amy even though by then he didn't like it.

Sheldon said  a nice thing to Howard when Mrs Wolowiz died.

Sheldon took care of Amy when she was vomiting and passing out drunk two years before they started courting and had a RA.

Sheldon agreed to father a super race of benign overlords to benefit mankind.

Sheldon invented the warrior queen Bernatrix the Tall.

 

Don't forget, Sheldon offered Raj a job when he was in danger of being deported from the country.

Edited September 23, 2016 by serena_1995

[vonmar]

6 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Do you think those ideas are for the first half of the season or the second half? Because I personally find those ideas suitable storylines for coitus lol. So I'm really hopeful. 

However, Molaro talked about Penny's career in the past too. But from his most recent interview, it seems to me they're putting off Penny's career problem. So I'm worried they have changed their minds about flag con or Amy's research too. 

Who knows?  There is a general distrust of Molaro around here, he is notorious for making broad statements and then.....nothing comes of it.

I hope that both happen, but I think we're just going to have to wait and see.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, ATM said:

See we have Leonard - Penny - Sheldon scenes

Penny - Sheldon (only) scenes

where are Leonard - Penny(only) scenes ???

There are plenty of Leonard and Penny scenes. I really don't get the point of your posts/questions? 

[vonmar]

15 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

While you are correct people don't watch sitcoms to see " real word depictions of marriage"  the S/L/P dynamic seemed to work without the three of them living together for the first nine years.. It was a little funny when Sheldon slept on Penny's couch last season but the storyline has worn thin. Escapism IMO has turned into stupidity with the current living arrangements.

I agree because I would be very happy with L/P/S having sitcom lives that are not so tightly tethered together.  The most recent taping reports might indicate that the writers are headed in that direction.  But who knows where they will take us next, I honestly do hope that they do not backtrack.

[Judith]

54 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

I guess I'm misunderstanding you-- you believe the "intimacy" of the Sheldon-Penny friendship to be one-sided? By which side? I think the show has shown the close friendship to be mutually felt by them both. No, I don't think Sheldon favors Penny over Amy at all- one is a close friend and the other his girlfriend (who once was a friend who was a girl but not a girlfriend lol). But I do think, in the past anyway, that he has from time to time felt more comfortable sharing things with Penny than Amy and that is what Amy alluded to in 7.21 and sort of in 9.21. I do believe that issue is changing for the better though (like you point out, the hoarding episode is prime example of that) and that's a great thing. But I stand by my response to Jonny that Penny is high on the friend list with Sheldon and they share a mutual platonic affection for one another.

 

No, I think their friendship is mutual and there are many examples of that. I do think that there is intimacy in their relationship in general, but I don't understand how Penny's behaviour towards Sheldon in 9.21 = intimacy that Amy would be annoyed about (or the fans). Because that's the example you gave (along with 7.21)  when I asked you (well I asked you about the fans but you get what I mean). I get how due to her own issues she'd be annoyed by this behaviour but I don't get how, outside of her own issues, this would be something to annoy people. Because this behaviour is coming from Penny, and Amy is Sheldon's girlfriend and not hers.

ETA: Something tells me we'll be going in circles from now on so maybe we should put this to rest.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Judith

[Tensor]

 

40 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

It was a little funny when Sheldon slept on Penny's couch last season but the storyline has worn thin. Escapism IMO has turned into stupidity with the current living arrangements.

This is so right on for me.  Between the lack of Lenny in season 8 and the growing ridiculousness of the living arrangements last year,  I no longer have a "suspension of belief" when I watch now.   While I still enjoy most of it, I'm no longer obsessed with it.

[vonmar]

From TBBT You Tube Channel Sneak Peeks for 10x2...

Sneak Peek #2

 

[3ku11]

SIGHHHH I am honestly over the SP discussion for good, the topic has been talked to death. It always climaxes, too they have a great friendship, or it is so Assexual, or its so brother and sister. Some extremes Penny is indifferent, they are almost strangers. Not that I subscribe to that, compleltely haha. But my point I am so over the SP discussion. IT is so passe. They had a compelling comic chemistry, that intrigued people. That and Jim is tall hahaha. But the show has deconstructed the entire dynamic so much over the years, its a blimp on the radar now. Spending your life with someone, you choose, too me holds more merit. I don't think Penny and Sheldon get each other, I just think it is pure transference tbh. The problem show is so different these days, where would you get the time to do SP scenes anymore? Does not help they often force it these days. But Onwards and upwards. Promo for 10x02 looks good. Dean Norris!! Legend! And TBH more Sheldon and Bernadette please!!

Can we please put this SP discussion to rest now. Makes me laugh these long winding essays on SP, are they really that in depth and deep? Sheldons affection for Penny, is equal to his Mum or His Meemaw. Penny's affection, is she see's this big weirdo friend. People want to translate that into a romantic thing over the years, fine go ahead. But it is like people spend hours talking about something that doesen't exist haha. That is my point on Fantasy and Real Life. I ship Lenny because they are not a dream. But that is just me.  It is like when people say Oh Sheldon is no threat to the Lenny relationship, really lol Of course he isin't. Even if he wanted too, PEnny woukd kick him below. She choose Leonard. Sheldon is not goo denough for Penny, we all know that. Just honestly enough with this overselling of SP. They are friends, that is all you need to know.  It is funny because I beleive if Leonard diied, so would Penny haha if you catch my drift. He is literally the only reason she stayed post Season 2. Post Barbarian Sublimtion. And if the world ended, Penny would shoot herself, before she even considerd the crazy notion. 

And a point on the writing of Lenny. I love all they write is angst or debs, or loans, or pouting. I Think the show is trying to write them realistically. That is why they are so compelling to me. I am not into fantasys, or dreams, or fairytales. I am into real life sitcom couples. That is Lenny. But when it counts it is obvious Leonard is Penny's soul mate. I have a problem with them over simplyifying things, and still paying two rents to pease Sheldon. As clearly Sheldon is hiding behind Lenny, to keep Amy from moving in. He clearly prioritizes Lenny over Amy. 

ETA: Leonard and Penny have had pretty much 90% of the show them alone in scenes, not sure where that came from. When Leonard proposed for example. I agree too people don't watch sitcoms for in depth depiction of real world marrages. They watch for escapism. Call me easy, but Lenny dancing with the doors locked is enough for me. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by 3ku11

[Nogravitasatall]

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

IMO, people don't watch sitcoms to see "real world depictions of marriage". They watch for escapism from their own real wold marriages/relationships. Escapism occurs when viewers are presented with outlandish, exaggerated versions of the real world.  That's what the S/L/P dynamic offers.

True, but there is usually some relationship between fiction and reality. This fictional situation pushed over into "ludicrous" when the newlyweds put aside their promises, both implicit and explicit, that they made to each other when they married. And usually in fiction such intrusions are rationalised because the parent (see Frazier/Castle) or sibling (see TAHM) are compromised in some way. This nurturing of Sheldon while ignoring his level of compromise challenges my suspension of disbelief. He is supposed to be an object of desire but he is so "messed up" he can't function on his own? They try to make make the case that Sheldon is "a brother" to Leonard and Penny to give credence to their need to nurture him?  At the same time  he is proposed a a suitable life partner for Amy and Amy's one true love?  

This is not an argument I can win. Either you buy what they are selling or not.  But the further they push into ludicrous the more they are relying on "midichlorian" type devices to prop up the premise. Maybe the  LA experiment is a rebound from the limits of ludicrousness. 

[2L344]

30 minutes ago, Judith said:

No, I think their friendship is mutual and there are many examples of that. I do think that there is intimacy in their relationship in general, but I don't understand how Penny's behaviour towards Sheldon in 9.21 = intimacy that Amy would be annoyed about (or the fans). Because that's the example you gave (along with 7.21)  when I asked you (well I asked you about the fans but you get what I mean). I get how due to her own issues she'd be annoyed by this behaviour but I don't get how, outside of her own issues, this would be something to annoy people. Because this behaviour is coming from Penny, and Amy is Sheldon's girlfriend and not hers.

ETA: Something tells me we'll be going in circles from now on so maybe we should put this to rest.

I'll own being the confused one here so I agree lol!

[vonmar]

27 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

True, but there is usually some relationship between fiction and reality. This fictional situation pushed over into "ludicrous" when the newlyweds put aside their promises, both implicit and explicit, that they made to each other when they married. And usually in fiction such intrusions are rationalised because the parent (see Frazier/Castle) or sibling (see TAHM) are compromised in some way. This nurturing of Sheldon while ignoring his level of compromise challenges my suspension of disbelief. He is supposed to be an object of desire but he is so "messed up" he can't function on his own? They try to make make the case that Sheldon is "a brother" to Leonard and Penny to give credence to their need to nurture him?  At the same time  he is proposed a a suitable life partner for Amy and Amy's one true love?  

This is not an argument I can win. Either you buy what they are selling or not.  But the further they push into ludicrous the more they are relying on "midichlorian" type devices to prop up the premise. Maybe the  LA experiment is a rebound from the limits of ludicrousness. 

Quite frankly I don't think that it is about winning or losing.  It's about having a conversation...expressing opinions. We did that, thank you.

Edited September 24, 2016 by vonmar

[hokie3457]

21 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

True, but there is usually some relationship between fiction and reality. This fictional situation pushed over into "ludicrous" when the newlyweds put aside their promises, both implicit and explicit, that they made to each other when they married. And usually in fiction such intrusions are rationalised because the parent (see Frazier/Castle) or sibling (see TAHM) are compromised in some way. This nurturing of Sheldon while ignoring his level of compromise challenges my suspension of disbelief. He is supposed to be an object of desire but he is so "messed up" he can't function on his own? They try to make make the case that Sheldon is "a brother" to Leonard and Penny to give credence to their need to nurture him?  At the same time  he is proposed a a suitable life partner for Amy and Amy's one true love?  

This is not an argument I can win. Either you buy what they are selling or not.  But the further they push into ludicrous the more they are relying on "midichlorian" type devices to prop up the premise. Maybe the  LA experiment is a rebound from the limits of ludicrousness. 

(I love it when you use the  dreaded "midichlorian" in your posts--almost as much as the fact that spellcheck does not have a problem with "midichlorian")

[Nogravitasatall]

23 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Quite frankly I don't think that it is about winning or losing.  It's about having a conversation...expressing opinions. We did that, thank you.

Let's say I can't persuade you, rather than win an argument. It's totally about preference anyway. My problem (I'll own it) is I like a slice of the show's content, not the whole loaf.

[camelliayao]

• 2 hours ago, 2L344 said:

  • I guess I'm misunderstanding you-- you believe the "intimacy" of the Sheldon-Penny friendship to be one-sided? By which side? I think the show has shown the close friendship to be mutually felt by them both. No, I don't think Sheldon favors Penny over Amy at all- one is a close friend and the other his girlfriend (who once was a friend who was a girl but not a girlfriend lol). But I do think, in the past anyway, that he has from time to time felt more comfortable sharing things with Penny than Amy and that is what Amy alluded to in 7.21 and sort of in 9.21. I do believe that issue is changing for the better though (like you point out, the hoarding episode is prime example of that) and that's a great thing. But I stand by my response to Jonny that Penny is high on the friend list with Sheldon and they share a mutual platonic affection for one another.
  •  

 

And the examples will be? His birthday? No. He shares that with Penny because the experiment requires complete honesty. His childhood trauma in 1005? No, he and Amy have a fight and are separated by Lenny. It's not like Sheldon chooses to tell the secret to Penny but not Amy. Their conversation in 917? Aside from the fact the it’s the 200^th episode and it’s so obvious the writers want us to revisit the first three seasons of the show, it’s Penny who volunteers to go into the bathroom. And where’s the part where Sheldon shares exclusive information with Penny? All I can see is a depressing Sheldon from beginning to the end until later Amy’s words cheer him up and a sympathetic Penny trying to make Sheldon happy.

Now let’s look at the examples Amy give in 921. Quote:

Who's always comforting him when he's upset? Who's the only one who can make him take his medicine when he's sick?

Does this suggest anything like Sheldon feels more comfortable telling Penny his secrets? No. Penny having Sheldon take medicine? Hello, mother/sister figure. Penny always comforts Sheldon? See, it’s Penny always comforts Sheldon, not Sheldon always seeks comfort from Penny. It may sound like a tongue twister but that’s just my poor language.

My point is, there’s a big difference between Penny cares about/helps/comforts Sheldon and Sheldon himself feeling he’s closer to Penny than others for whatever reason.

Speaking of the things that Sheldon doesn’t share with Amy, let’s not forget he shares his reason for loving trains with Bernie. He shares his struggle with Dark Matter with Raj. Does this mean Sheldon feels less comfortable sharing those things with Amy? I don’t think so.

Most of the time, Sheldon shares secrets with people other than Amy because the he’s with those people at the time but not Amy. And because S&P are in the big three, there really shouldn’t be any surprise that he shares with Penny more (because they have more scenes together! Let alone Amy hasn't appeared till season 4)

I can think of very very few examples (if any) that Sheldon shares a thing with Penny but not Amy due to him feeling more comfortable sharing them with Penny.

Oh right, his Mars application, and the maybe ring (because he obviously can’t share that information with Amy lol). But wait, aren’t those two episodes examples of how much Sheldon loves Amy?

So I agree with @Judith here, I never sense anything from Sheldon’s side that he sees Penny other than sister/mother/nanny. But if people can still have a platonic affection for their sister/mother/nanny, well fine, Sheldon does have a “platonic affection” for Penny.

I think there’re people who can see the soulmate thing because they actually prefer a romantic Shenny. However, a lot of others see the soulmate thing because they do have a friend for whom they have “platonic affection” or they hope they have one. So they see a reflection of themselves from Sheldon and Penny.

But the difference between us “normal” people and Sheldon is, most of us “normal” people don’t need a mother/sister figure from our friends, Sheldon does. So IMO, the S&P relationship, which these people considers as a reflection of themselves and their friend, really is, as the show has told us repeatedly, mother&son/sister&brother.

And Judith, I think for your question, why fans are annoyed by S/P. My guess is, fans are not annoyed because they're threatened by S/P as like you said, the writers makes it clear there's nothing special or weird. They are annoyed because some of the scences between S&P could've happened between Shamy.

For example, if you accept the storyline in 1005, it's very reasonable that Penny takes Sheldon out so both him and Amy can calm down a little bit. The fans are unhappy because, why did the writers in the first place, choose this storyline? Why didn't they choose a storyliine that Shamy can have more communication time since they really need a deep conversation rather than just a hug and a few warming words.

----------------------------------------------

(The following are just unimportant rambles)

One of the reasons I don't like S/P interactions these days is because after I joined the fandom, I found some people (not referring to anyone on the forum, some people on tumblr) making the S/P relationship a lot more than it isn’t. Even though I don’t believe their theories for one second, the problem is, you see, a lie told a thousand times doesn’t make it the truth, but it does make you want to roll your eyes. After you see lots of posts on tumblr telling you there’s something “special” between Shenny, you start to get annoyed.

An example which I found particularly hilarious is some people claim Sheldon and Penny actually have the first mutual “I love yous” because of The Closure Alternative episode. When I first read this, I actually had to rewatch the episode to see what exactly they said!

(Quote:

Penny: Sheldon, you big weirdo, I want you to know that I love that you’re in my life. Sheldon: I love you, too.)

LOL.

During the second half of season 9, I did get a little (maybe a lot lol) more sensitive about S&P because of the unsatisfying post-coitus Shamy relationship, especially the part where Sheldon acts like he has no desire for Amy at all. The thing is, to me, I really don’t know if I can call what Shamy have “love’ if Sheldon has zero desire for Amy. It makes me wonder if Sheldon’s with Amy only because she’s patient, or because she’s the only one who can “put up” with him. And if that, what’s the difference between Shamy, Shenny or even Shelnard?

After the latest TR, we are finally confirmed that Sheldon is sexually awaken, for Amy and probably for her only. (of course things may change in the future, because this is what the show’s good at, you know, inconsistencies.)

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by camelliayao

[ajond]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 

This is so right on for me.  Between the lack of Lenny in season 8 and the growing ridiculousness of the living arrangements last year,  I no longer have a "suspension of belief" when I watch now.   While I still enjoy most of it, I'm no longer obsessed with it.

Exactly my feeling about the show.

[2L344]

19 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

But if people can still have a platonic affection for their sister/mother/nanny, well fine, Sheldon does have a “platonic affection” for Penny

That pretty much sums it up for me, and what I was originally getting at when I responded to jonny's post on the topic. As for all the filler, you can believe what you want about past history and whether or not Sheldon has confided or shared things with Penny that he hadn't with Amy. Like you, I dont believe any of it translates to a Shenny fantasy--in that we agree.

[jenafan]

9 hours ago, 2L344 said:

I, too, would like to see the writers explore the Amy/Leonard relationship more. Like you point out, there is a lot to explore with that dynamic. 

I would be very interested to see Sheldon's reaction to that.   It was no big deal to him back when Amy was his friend that was a girl but not his girlfriend.  However, given the karate chop imposed on Leonard over a mis-assumption of a compliment he was giving her then, it seems Sheldon's tendency to express jealous possession would get in the way.  We know a double-standard is bound to exist.

While I enjoy the Shenny friendship, I do feel it goes a little bit too far, borderlining the inappropriate at times.  To me, there is something disturbing about a man using another man's wife or vice versa as a sounding board about problems they are having with their significant others.  Isn't this a recipe for.... ?  Well I won't say it, because I know it won't happen.  Lenny and Shamy are solid; dysfunctional as they are.  

Nonetheless, the TPTB know how to create anger in their Lenny and Shamy shipper fans by pairing Shenny together in a love experiment, a nightmare, the bathroom, and now by having Sheldon admit noticing how attractive Penny is by apologizing for never hitting on her.  They think they can soften the blow by having Sheldon remind us that he sees Penny as more of a nanny or sister.  It doesn't work for all of us.  Some of these encounters have left permanent scars in my memory, and I have to fight the tendency to expend energy on needless worry about the writers pulling a hat trick at the end of the show.  

I don't want Amy to go running to Leonard whenever she has a complaint about Sheldon any more than I want Sheldon to keep running to Penny over his issues with Amy or himself regarding his relationship with her.   It is disrespectful to Amy that Penny gets to know all of his feelings, and now desire for her, before Amy does.  It is disrespectful to Leonard that Sheldon can't keep Leonard's confidence, but outs him and creates trouble and embarrassment with Penny.

Meemaw made a good point about how odd it is that Penny knows things about Sheldon that his girlfriend of 5.5 years doesn't.  Yes, it is good that Amy has seen Sheldon with his pants off, but why was it so hard for us to see Sheldon revealing his feelings to his own woman rather than someone else's?  Why do we get to see Sheldon giving Penny a reciprocating hug, while Amy stands in the background holding on to passively jealousy over their relationship?  On the matters of a sexual nature, why is Sheldon seeking Penny and not Leonard for advice?  Oh, silly me!   It's because Penny and Sheldon are both in cahoots on the jokes about Leonard's lack of prowess.

Penny needs to stop being the "helicopter parent" running to Sheldon's defense and/or rescue.  She should back off and give Amy a chance to be his source of comfort and reassurance.  Penny can take some of the attention she has been giving to Sheldon and direct it toward her husband, giving and showing Leonard why she married him so he doesn't have to wonder how he ended up with a girl like her and deserves her.  

At some point, Sheldon and Amy need to become each other's BFF and trust they can communicate with each other about anything; the good, the bad, their fears, their wants, their need, and their mistakes.  Revealing the storage room to Amy was a big step.   I want to see Sheldon's most intimate secrets unraveled during his conversations and encounters with Amy, not Penny.

I get that Lenny are working together to make the cohabitation experiment work. They don't want Sheldon back.  It is to their benefit to help Sheldon and Amy grow in their relationship.  I would like the writers to use this opportunity to bring more Shamy, Lenny, Shelnard and PAmy.   Keep the Shenny and LAmy friendships going, but in their proper place in consideration of their significant others.

Edited September 24, 2016 by jenafan

[camelliayao]

7 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

That pretty much sums it up for me, and what I was originally getting at when I responded to jonny's post on the topic. As for all the filler, you can believe what you want about past history and whether or not Sheldon has confided or shared things with Penny that he hadn't with Amy. Like you, I dont believe any of it translates to a Shenny fantasy--in that we agree.

Actually what I said in my post is Sheldon sure has confided or shared things with Penny that he hadn't with Amy, as we have examples from the show lol. But IMO he didn't share those things because he feels more comfortable sharing them with Penny and I asked since you feel that way, maybe you could show me a few examples.

The bold part, I agree.

[Tensor]

 

23 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

And the examples will be? His birthday? No. He shares that with Penny because the experiment requires complete honesty. His childhood trauma in 1005? No, he and Amy have a fight and are separated by Lenny. It's not like Sheldon chooses to tell the secret to Penny but not Amy. Their conversation in 917? Aside from the fact the it’s the 200^th episode and it’s so obvious the writers want us to revisit the first three seasons of the show, it’s Penny who volunteers to go into the bathroom. And where’s the part where Sheldon shares exclusive information with Penny? All I can see is a depressing Sheldon from beginning to the end until later Amy’s words cheer him up and a sympathetic Penny trying to make Sheldon happy.

So, after three years of knowing Amy and two years of dating her, he doesn't trust her with his BIRTHDAY?   But, just because he and Penny are taking a silly test, he's willing to tell her?  This harks back to his not even trusting her enough to say he was leaving and calling her, instead of Leonard, when he took off.    

So he was willing to propose to her last year, but not willing to tell her of his childhood trauma that leaves him scared of getting married?  

Penny just went into the bathroom, Amy doesn't have the wherewithal to do that herself, when she knows he is upset?  

23 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Now let’s look at the examples Amy give in 921. Quote:

Who's always comforting him when he's upset? Who's the only one who can make him take his medicine when he's sick?

Does this suggest anything like Sheldon feels more comfortable telling Penny his secrets? No. Penny having Sheldon take medicine? Hello, mother/sister figure. Penny always comforts Sheldon? See, it’s Penny always comforts Sheldon, not Sheldon always seeks comfort from Penny. It may sound like a tongue twister but that’s just my poor language.

 

This sounds as if he would rather get comforted by Penny coming to him, then him going to or calling Amy.

23 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

My point is, there’s a big difference between Penny cares about/helps/comforts Sheldon and Sheldon himself feeling he’s closer to Penny than others for whatever reason.

 

Evidently Amy thinks he is closer to Penny than he is to her, and in the end, isn't that the important thing?  Doesn't Sheldon want to let Amy know he feels closer to Amy than to Penny? 

23 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Speaking of the things that Sheldon doesn’t share with Amy, let’s not forget he shares his reason for loving trains with Bernie. He shares his struggle with Dark Matter with Raj. Does this mean Sheldon feels less comfortable sharing those things with Amy? I don’t think so.

Most of the time, Sheldon shares secrets with people other than Amy because the he’s with those people at the time but not Amy. And because S&P are in the big three, there really shouldn’t be any surprise that he shares with Penny more (because they have more scenes together! Let alone Amy hasn't appeared till season 4)

If it's not a surprise that he shares more with Penny, doesn't that bring into question his relationship with Amy?   Isn't the fact he sharing those secrets with others, instead of Amy cast doubt on their relationship?  Either he trusts Amy as his SO, or he doesn't.  If he does trust her, he shouldn't go to others with them, no matter the time.    

The problem is the writers want to have it both ways.  They want to have all these scenes with Sheldon and Penny, showing how comfortable he is with Penny because "See, he shares secrets with her".    Yet, they also want to have him care enough about Amy that he thought about proposing.  The problem with that is it makes it appear he doesn't trust Amy enough to tell her his secrets, which he freely shares with Penny.   

 

23 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

I can think of very very few examples (if any) that Sheldon shares a thing with Penny but not Amy due to him feeling more comfortable sharing them with Penny.

 

Evidently there are enough that Amy's indicating she thinks he's more comfortable sharing things with Penny than her.

Amy:... It’s just, she really has some sort of connection with him.

Amy: Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they’re friends. I just wish he’d be that comfortable around me already

 

There have been many things referred to over the years that haven't been shown, does that means those didn't happen?  There are enough, shown or not,  incidents that Amy has observed, that have indicate Amy is uncomfortable and/or jealous of the relationship Penny has with Sheldon, whether it is or isn't a mother/sister relationship.

 

 

[2L344]

1 hour ago, jenafan said:

I would be very interested to see Sheldon's reaction to that.   It was no big deal to him back when Amy was his friend that was a girl but not his girlfriend.  However, given the karate chop imposed on Leonard over a mis-assumption of a compliment he was giving her then, it seems Sheldon's tendency to express jealous possession would get in the way.  We know a double-standard is bound to exist.

While I enjoy the Shenny friendship, I do feel it goes a little bit too far, borderlining the inappropriate at times.  To me, there is something disturbing about a man using another man's wife or vice versa as a sounding board about problems they are having with their significant others.  Isn't this a recipe for.... ?  Well I won't say it, because I know it won't happen.  Lenny and Shamy are solid; dysfunctional as they are.  

Nonetheless, the TPTB know how to create anger in their Lenny and Shamy shipper fans by pairing Shenny together in a love experiment, a nightmare, the bathroom, and now by having Sheldon admit noticing how attractive Penny is by apologizing for never hitting on her.  They think they can soften the blow by having Sheldon remind us that he sees Penny as more of a nanny or sister.  It doesn't work for all of us.  Some of these encounters have left permanent scars in my memory, and I have to fight the tendency to expend energy on needless worry about the writers pulling a hat trick at the end of the show.  

I don't want Amy to go running to Leonard whenever she has a complaint about Sheldon any more than I want Sheldon to keep running to Penny over his issues with Amy or himself regarding his relationship with her.   It is disrespectful to Amy that Penny gets to know all of his feelings, and now desire for her, before Amy does.  It is disrespectful to Leonard that Sheldon can't keep Leonard's confidence, but outs him and creates trouble and embarrassment with Penny.

Meemaw made a good point about how odd it is that Penny knows things about Sheldon that his girlfriend of 5.5 years doesn't.  Yes, it is good that Amy has seen Sheldon with his pants off, but why was it so hard for us to see Sheldon revealing his feelings to his own woman rather than someone else's?  Why do we get to see Sheldon giving Penny a reciprocating hug, while Amy stands in the background holding on to passively jealousy over their relationship?  On the matters of a sexual nature, why is Sheldon seeking Penny and not Leonard for advice?  Oh, silly me!   It's because Penny and Sheldon are both in cahoots on the jokes about Leonard's lack of prowess.

Penny needs to stop being the "helicopter parent" running to Sheldon's defense and/or rescue.  She should back off and give Amy a chance to be his source of comfort and reassurance.  Penny can take some of the attention she has been giving to Sheldon and direct it toward her husband, giving and showing Leonard why she married him so he doesn't have to wonder how he ended up with a girl like her and deserves her.  

At some point, Sheldon and Amy need to become each other's BFF and trust they can communicate with each other about anything; the good, the bad, their fears, their wants, their need, and their mistakes.  Revealing the storage room to Amy was a big step.   I want to see Sheldon's most intimate secrets unraveled during his conversations and encounters with Amy, not Penny.

I get that Lenny are working together to make the cohabitation experiment work. They don't want Sheldon back.  It is to their benefit to help Sheldon and Amy grow in their relationship.  I would like the writers to use this opportunity to bring more Shamy, Lenny, Shelnard and PAmy.   Keep the Shenny and LAmy friendships going, but in their proper place in consideration of their significant others.

While I like the friendship and Sheldon/Penny moments (and lets face it, before Amy came into the picture it wasnt as big a deal), I agree with what you say here. I would like Sheldon to wean himself off of Penny and start relying on and communicating better with Amy. Like you pointed out, things are looking better for them in that sense with the hoarding episode as an example. 

But I still like to watch the Penny and Sheldon cute moments too, and I understand that not everyone does.

 

[Tensor]

 

 

1 hour ago, jenafan said:

Penny needs to stop being the "helicopter parent" running to Sheldon's defense and/or rescue.  She should back off and give Amy a chance to be his source of comfort and reassurance.  Penny can take some of the attention she has been giving to Sheldon and direct it toward her husband, giving and showing Leonard why she married him so he doesn't have to wonder how he ended up with a girl like her and deserves her.  

At some point, Sheldon and Amy need to become each other's BFF and trust they can communicate with each other about anything; the good, the bad, their fears, their wants, their need, and their mistakes.  Revealing the storage room to Amy was a big step.   I want to see Sheldon's most intimate secrets unraveled during his conversations and encounters with Amy, not Penny.

 

This, just so much this.

Quote

I get that Lenny are working together to make the cohabitation experiment work. They don't want Sheldon back.  It is to their benefit to help Sheldon and Amy grow in their relationship.  

This is not directed at you Jen, just your comment here is a handy launching point for my rant. 

But, if they don't want Sheldon back, just tell him to get the hell out, or they just get the hell out.  It's not their job to help Amy and Sheldon grow in their relationship.   The can listen to them and advise them but just don't frigging live with him.   Of course that isn't going to happen.  I didn't see anything about Lenny living together in the latest TR, which doesn't surprise me.   It's all about whether Sheldon can handle it.  Why can't there be discussion on how Lenny plans on getting past feeling sorry for Sheldon and stay living with him? 

 

23 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

But I still like to watch the Penny and Sheldon cute moments too, and I understand that not everyone does.

I like the cute moments also.  But, they don't have to keep beating us over the head with major plots about their relationship, at the cost of neglecting growth in both Shamy and Lenny.

 

 

[2L344]

13 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I like the cute moments also.  But, they don't have to keep beating us over the head with major plots about their relationship, at the cost of neglecting growth in both Shamy and Lenny.

Absolutely. The writers IMO squander opportunities to expand interesting plotlines with not only the couples but the other characters as well, and often times in favor of filler and forgettable scenes. As a Shamy shipper I wouldnt mind at all to see less of Penny/Sheldon and more of Shamy

 

[Nogravitasatall]

8 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

Absolutely. The writers IMO squander opportunities to expand interesting plotlines with not only the couples but the other characters as well, and often times in favor of filler and forgettable scenes. As a Shamy shipper I wouldnt mind at all to see less of Penny/Sheldon and more of Shamy

 

Until the actor gets equal billing - nup.

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

I like the cute moments also.  But, they don't have to keep beating us over the head with major plots about their relationship, at the cost of neglecting growth in both Shamy and Lenny.

And ironically, after saying this tonight, and then catching up on adding to the taping report thread, I found another report that contained this about last weeks taping:

Quote

Penny is driving Sheldon around to try to tell him he’s being an ass about this whole thing, but they end up complaining about their significant others.

So, lets have Sheldon and Penny complain about their girlfriend and spouse respectively, instead of working through what is bugging them.  But, I understand, we have to get Sheldon to inch forward, not move Leonard and Penny forward.