[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[3ku11]

I get why some say why Sheldon has to tell Penny about it. It is all about Sheldon, you should know that by now haha. How does Sheldon talking to Leonard, help Leonard. As a rule the writers, need to ask the Question, How do we fit Sheldon in this scene? Sheldon has a problem, where is Penny in this scene? How does this improove Sheldons growth? I mean I know Penny cares about Sheldon, and they are friends. And I don't really care she is the one he told. But it is not neccessary. Once again over simplying things. They did at the Wedding, and they are doing it again. Sheldon Sheldon Sheldon. Call it the Sheldon Cooper Show, because that is what the show is now. 

Lorre: Sheldon has a fear of becoming his father,  as he cheated on his Mother. Lets reveal that is why he knocks three times. He reveals Amy has created a sexual awkaining. Let's put Penny in the scene with him. Shes knows alot about sex. Have Sheldon say sorry I diddn't hit on you Penny. Inadvertantly and indirectly acknowleding Penny is attractive. 

Moloro: Sighh, That sounds like alot of work. I am tired, I am too old for this. How about Sheldon talk to Leonard about this? He's a man, his father also cheated. And then he goes to Amy, and shares his fear.  Penny then talks to Amy about her issues too. Penny then goes to Leonard, they have a conversation as well, they become closer in their intimacy. The couples then collectively get stronger as a whole

Lorre: No, that makes sense. That is a no no

.....

Edited September 24, 2016 by 3ku11

[camelliayao]

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

So, after three years of knowing Amy and two years of dating her, he doesn't trust her with his BIRTHDAY?   But, just because he and Penny are taking a silly test, he's willing to tell her? 

 

First, I believe Penny says "Well, that's always been a secret. Not even Amy knows". So we don't know if it's because Sheldon doesn't "trust" Amy with his birthday or because of other reasons.

Second, "silly test"? To us, yes, it may be silly. But to Sheldon? A man who only believes in science and rules? I'd say an “scientific experiment" is enough reason for Sheldon to do anything. Sheldon sharing a secret because of science is very IC to me.

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 This harks back to his not even trusting her enough to say he was leaving and calling her, instead of Leonard, when he took off.   

No, it does not. Because if I recall correctly, Sheldon didn't call or tell Leonard when he took off, Leonard tracked his phone.

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

So he was willing to propose to her last year, but not willing to tell her of his childhood trauma that leaves him scared of getting married?  

 

Again, no. Because there's not a single line in the TR suggesting Sheldon is unwilling to tell Amy his childhood trauma. The fact that he tells Penny doesn't mean he doesn't want to tell Amy.

And even if he doesn't, is it so hard to understand? His childhood trauma is the reason why he thinks he'll cheat on Amy! So what is he supposed to say to Amy? "Amy, let me tell you a story from my childhood. Oh by the way, the story is also why I believe I'll cheat on you in the future."

Like ?????????

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

Penny just went into the bathroom, Amy doesn't have the wherewithal to do that herself, when she knows he is upset?  
 

I'm not sure what this sentense means. But my original point with this example is that, it's Penny who volunteers into the bathroom. It's not like Sheldon says "I'm upset and since I'm more comfortable with Penny, Amy please don't come in."

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

If it's not a surprise that he shares more with Penny, doesn't that bring into question his relationship with Amy?   Isn't the fact he sharing those secrets with others, instead of Amy cast doubt on their relationship?  Either he trusts Amy as his SO, or he doesn't.  If he does trust her, he shouldn't go to others with them, no matter the time.    

 

 

The bold line, no, I don't think so. Because a lot of the "secret revealing" (actually most of those things that he tells others are not even secrets) comes casually in conversations. Like he tells Bernie about his secrets when they play with trains. He tells Raj about his career problem when they're doing something career related. He tells Penny his birthday when doing the experiment.

So by your theory, in order to show Amy that he trusts her, Sheldon has to keep track of what "secrets" he tells others every day, and then check to see whether Amy knows about those. I don't think anyone who's in their right mind lives a life like that.

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

This sounds as if he would rather get comforted by Penny coming to him, then him going to or calling Amy.

 

I disagree. Because the line is " Who's always comforting him when he's upset? " I don't see how you get the implication. Maybe because I don't speak English, but to me it just means Penny is kind enough to comfort Sheldon when he's upset. Nothing from Sheldon's side and his preference of which people he likes to comfort him more.

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

Evidently there are enough that Amy's indicating she thinks he's more comfortable sharing things with Penny than her.

Amy:... It’s just, she really has some sort of connection with him.

Amy: Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they’re friends. I just wish he’d be that comfortable around me already

There have been many things referred to over the years that haven't been shown, does that means those didn't happen?  There are enough, shown or not,  incidents that Amy has observed, that have indicate Amy is uncomfortable and/or jealous of the relationship Penny has with Sheldon, whether it is or isn't a mother/sister relationship.

There's a difference between something that actually happens and something that the characters "believe". For example, during the time of Leonard dating Priya, I'm sure Penny would "believe" that Leonard loves Priya more because she "believes" Priya is better than her in so many ways. But is that the truth? I don't think so. Look who Leonard chose in the end. Sheldon also "believes" that he'll cheat on Amy in the future at the beginning of 1005, but I don't think he ever will.

I'm not surprised at all that Amy would be jealous of S/P's closeness. Beause first S&P really are close. Second, I think Amy's worries is IC since she's always very insecure. For example, even in S10 when someone tells her that she's cool, her first reaction is "well that's because I'm dating Sheldon". For a girl as insecure and inconfident as Amy, it's only natural that she "believes" Sheldon has more connections with Penny since well, Sheldon and Penny are neighbours and they've known each other longer.

 

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

The problem is the writers want to have it both ways.  They want to have all these scenes with Sheldon and Penny, showing how comfortable he is with Penny because "See, he shares secrets with her".    Yet, they also want to have him care enough about Amy that he thought about proposing.  The problem with that is it makes it appear he doesn't trust Amy enough to tell her his secrets, which he freely shares with Penny.  

Now this, I agree.

In fact, my original post was never meant to say that the writers handle the couples well. On the contrary, a lot of the time I roll my eyes at how the writers write Shamy and Lenny. And I always believe that the writers give us those S/P moments because they want to pleast Shenny shippers. That's why there has to be several S/P moments every season wheter they're necessary or not.

But, I also believe in order to not let things get out of control, they've been very subtle about the closeness of S&P. And by subtle I mean I never see anything, at least not anything from Sheldon's side, suggesting that he's more comfortable sharing things with Penny than Amy just because he trusts Penny more. So until such moments occur, I'm gonna hold on to my theory.

Edited September 24, 2016 by camelliayao

[Vittoria Jacoel]

Guys,I find this article:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/09/23/big-bang-theory-signals-season-10-wont-its-last/90843926/
Here Jim Parson is optimistic about other seasons after season 10!He want to continue![emoji18]we must cross fingers![emoji16]


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[3ku11]

I don't think the fact, he diddn't tell Leonard to prooves either way he does not trust Amy. Sheldon diddn't tell me either hahaha. It is just over symplifying from the writers per usual. What else are susposed to think? Logically Sheldon does not trust Amy enough, and technically Amy is not hot enough. I guess difference with Leonard and Penny, is for years they had sexual chemistry and physical intimacy. Penny clearly finds Leonard attractive. Their is just not enough evidence to suggest Sheldon finds Amy attractive enough. I am sorry if that is someone fans don't wanna here, but I beleive it is true. It is troubling to me, to hear Sheldon go on about attractive women. I am sure he was telling Bernadette, he would acknolwedge her attractiveness too. But he does not seem to beleive, or at least acknowledge, he finds Amy attractive, enough anyway. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by 3ku11

[Judith]

9 hours ago, camelliayao said:

• And the examples will be? His birthday? No. He shares that with Penny because the experiment requires complete honesty. His childhood trauma in 1005? No, he and Amy have a fight and are separated by Lenny. It's not like Sheldon chooses to tell the secret to Penny but not Amy. Their conversation in 917? Aside from the fact the it’s the 200^th episode and it’s so obvious the writers want us to revisit the first three seasons of the show, it’s Penny who volunteers to go into the bathroom. And where’s the part where Sheldon shares exclusive information with Penny? All I can see is a depressing Sheldon from beginning to the end until later Amy’s words cheer him up and a sympathetic Penny trying to make Sheldon happy.

Now let’s look at the examples Amy give in 921. Quote:

Who's always comforting him when he's upset? Who's the only one who can make him take his medicine when he's sick?

Does this suggest anything like Sheldon feels more comfortable telling Penny his secrets? No. Penny having Sheldon take medicine? Hello, mother/sister figure. Penny always comforts Sheldon? See, it’s Penny always comforts Sheldon, not Sheldon always seeks comfort from Penny. It may sound like a tongue twister but that’s just my poor language.

My point is, there’s a big difference between Penny cares about/helps/comforts Sheldon and Sheldon himself feeling he’s closer to Penny than others for whatever reason.

Speaking of the things that Sheldon doesn’t share with Amy, let’s not forget he shares his reason for loving trains with Bernie. He shares his struggle with Dark Matter with Raj. Does this mean Sheldon feels less comfortable sharing those things with Amy? I don’t think so.

Most of the time, Sheldon shares secrets with people other than Amy because the he’s with those people at the time but not Amy. And because S&P are in the big three, there really shouldn’t be any surprise that he shares with Penny more (because they have more scenes together! Let alone Amy hasn't appeared till season 4)

I can think of very very few examples (if any) that Sheldon shares a thing with Penny but not Amy due to him feeling more comfortable sharing them with Penny.

Oh right, his Mars application, and the maybe ring (because he obviously can’t share that information with Amy lol). But wait, aren’t those two episodes examples of how much Sheldon loves Amy?

So I agree with @Judith here, I never sense anything from Sheldon’s side that he sees Penny other than sister/mother/nanny. But if people can still have a platonic affection for their sister/mother/nanny, well fine, Sheldon does have a “platonic affection” for Penny.

I think there’re people who can see the soulmate thing because they actually prefer a romantic Shenny. However, a lot of others see the soulmate thing because they do have a friend for whom they have “platonic affection” or they hope they have one. So they see a reflection of themselves from Sheldon and Penny.

But the difference between us “normal” people and Sheldon is, most of us “normal” people don’t need a mother/sister figure from our friends, Sheldon does. So IMO, the S&P relationship, which these people considers as a reflection of themselves and their friend, really is, as the show has told us repeatedly, mother&son/sister&brother.

And Judith, I think for your question, why fans are annoyed by S/P. My guess is, fans are not annoyed because they're threatened by S/P as like you said, the writers makes it clear there's nothing special or weird. They are annoyed because some of the scences between S&P could've happened between Shamy.

I agree with you. What are all these times that Sheldon has "confided" in Penny and not Amy ? I've seen this stated many times but never with examples. And more importantly, was it made clear that it was something that only Penny was meant to know? I'd say no. And like you say, every time he tells Penny something there's a reason for it that doesn't include "I'm entrusting you with this and I don't want anyone to know, not even Amy". It's either due to practicality, circumstances or something that also Leonard knows, but somehow he's always left out of the equation when talked about here.

My point is, I keep saying that Sheldon has never favoured Penny over Amy because there's a difference between Penny always going to comfort/defend Sheldon/Sheldon telling Penny things because they're friends and Sheldon being better comforted by Penny or choosing Penny to comfort him/always defending Penny/confiding in her with something that he explicitly instructed her to not share with anyone else, ever. That's what he did with Amy in Solder.

In 7.21 we have the psychic actually saying out loud that Sheldon needs to stop pushing Amy away right after Amy expresses jealousy about how comfortable Sheldon is with Penny. And that line is triggered by him being convinced by Penny to go to the psychic. No mention of any secret sharing.

In 9.21, when she explains the problems she has with S/P it's either sth motherly related or Penny doing things for Sheldon. I don't see that as any kind of "intimacy" that is missing from S/A. Amy might be annoyed because she's in a relationship with Sheldon and feels insecure but in reality she has nothing to be annoyed about. Because these are things that Penny does for Sheldon, not Sheldon for Penny. And again, no mention of secret sharing or anything like that.

I also agree with you about the experiment/bathroom/childhood trauma. Sheldon has also shared things with others but for some reason it's viewed as some kind of special confiding only when he does it with Penny. 

@Tensor (this doesn't want to work for some reason. Camellia has made many of my points here. I'll just add that Amy being "sometimes annoyed by how close Sheldon and Penny are" doesn't equal Penny is closer to Sheldon than Amy is.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Judith
Replaced a word and a phrase (sorry but English isn't my first language and my brain is starting to hurt here)

[3ku11]

Yes Judith we have not seen eye to eye in the past haha. But I agree, Amy worried about their closesness does not equate to them actually being close. Considering the fact too, Leonard does not seem threatened by it at all. He even seems understanding, despite him possibly having a subconcious fear. IT just seems to stem from Amy's own insecurities of her relationship with Sheldon, and she is perpetuating them onto Penny. JMO. 

[Zhalen565]

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

This is so right on for me.  Between the lack of Lenny in season 8 and the growing ridiculousness of the living arrangements last year,  I no longer have a "suspension of belief" when I watch now.   While I still enjoy most of it, I'm no longer obsessed with it.

So accurate a post, I used to download and watch morning after before leaving for a job, even if it was 4.00am start. Now it can be up to a week before I watch.

[Nogravitasatall]

Setting aside how close Sheldon is with Penny (because I don't care why he does what he does - he's just "unique" and I acknowledge that) what the frak motivates Leonard and Penny to be so close with Sheldon? They  got married to each other - which normally indicates a pretty intense inclination to concentrate one's focus on one's spouse. Does Sheldon's hissy fit really provide enough motivation to push a marriage into the background? Leonard loves Penny. He fought a giant for her, dammit,  and struggled for six years to get her to admit what she always knew - that she really loves him. Yet Sheldon has an anxiety attack and they cave in and become complete doormats.

I don't know why they did that. It's incomprehensible to me. For example Penny forgave the Mandy incident, which was powerful enough to stuff up their wedding night - which is a pretty significant one-off and unrepeatable event. They went to a lot of effort to stay together. Then Sheldon whimpers and they fold. 

And  to top it off Sheldon let them coddle him. What's wrong with this guy?  It's pretty lame of him to step into a marriage  - and lame of them to acquiesce. 

Much lameness, all round. Looking forward to some backbone being displayed in s10. Locked doors and dancing are a start.

(Of course I know why it went the way it did it - they needed to protect the premise and keep the mill grinding away, and why not? Baby always needs a new dress)

[Lady in Red]

15 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Setting aside how close Sheldon is with Penny (because I don't care why he does what he does - he's just "unique" and I acknowledge that) what the frak motivates Leonard and Penny to be so close with Sheldon? They  got married to each other - which normally indicates a pretty intense inclination to concentrate one's focus on one's spouse. Does Sheldon's hissy fit really provide enough motivation to push a marriage into the background? Leonard loves Penny. He fought a giant for her, dammit,  and struggled for six years to get her to admit what she always knew - that she really loves him. Yet Sheldon has an anxiety attack and they cave in and become complete doormats.

I don't know why they did that. It's incomprehensible to me. 

Leonard and Penny are kind people who recognize that Sheldon is vulnerable.  He is a brilliant man whose work is important, but he is barely able to function in the world.  Leonard has said before that Sheldon is broken and needs him.

This is not so terribly different than caring for a brother who is disabled, or an elderly relative.  It's done all the time, all over the world.

[Nogravitasatall]

24 minutes ago, Lady in Red said:

Leonard and Penny are kind people who recognize that Sheldon is vulnerable.  He is a brilliant man whose work is important, but he is barely able to function in the world.  Leonard has said before that Sheldon is broken and needs him.

This is not so terribly different than caring for a brother who is disabled, or an elderly relative.  It's done all the time, all over the world.

Then good luck Amy. Unless the magical powers of her love reconfigures his synapses. How she expects a normal life  - as she has expressly wished for- I don't know. 

So which is it? A functional and marriageable partner or a brilliant  but fundamentally broken man. It has to resolve sometime. Either he is competent or not.  Certainly he is never humble.

If the latter then Amy may have  to recalibrate her expectations.

And if it can be more widely recognised that Penny is so generous then people might stop remarking negatively about her actually making the sacrifice of her own life for Sheldon's benefit.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[Jonny]

4 hours ago, Lady in Red said:

Leonard and Penny are kind people who recognize that Sheldon is vulnerable.  He is a brilliant man whose work is important I, but he is barely able to function in the world.  Leonard has said before that Sheldon is broken and needs him.

This is not so terribly different than caring for a brother who is disabled, or an elderly relative.  It's done all the time, all over the world.

To quote Leonard from The Proton Displacement:

Quote

 

Professor Proton: Can I ask you a question?

Leonard: Yeah, sure.

Professor Proton: Why do you put up with Sheldon?

Leonard: Oh, um, you know. Because we’re friends.

Professor Proton: Why?

Leonard: Wow. You ask really hard questions. Look, I know he can be aggravating, but you have to remember he’s not doing it on purpose. It’s just how he is. Oh, but he’s also loyal, and trustworthy and we have fun together.

Professor Proton: You know, you’re describing a dog.

Leonard: He did bite me once. But in his defense I came up behind him while he was eating.

Professor Proton: They hate that.

Leonard: You, know what. Sheldon is the smartest person I’ve ever met. He’s a little broke and he needs me. I guess I need him too.

 

Powerful words that are canon, so I take their relationship to be seen as something positive and it's why I don't really question it. Despite all the snark, banter and anger at the end of the day when it matters most they all come through for each other. They are an unusual group of friends with their own quirks and eccentricities but it just works and that's a huge part of the appeal when watching them.

I think we sometimes forget that we only get the briefest glimpses of their lives every week, there is a lot of stuff they do together as a group or as a pair of friends that we just don't see. The Troll Manifestation for me gave us a glimpse of why they are friends and why they have been working together or collaborating for years or seeking advice from each other. And by the sounds of it we get another glimpse of that in the next episode or two with the guidance project.

Forgive me for not mentioning the specific posters name but whoever said it was escapism is spot on. Some of it doesn't make sense to us at times or comes across as believable in a real world situation but it allows people to escape real life by watching something and being entertained knowing that other people have problems as well and they find ways to work through it. This show got me through the passing of my mother last year and I will be eternally grateful that it gave me a place to escape to.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Jonny

[Lady in Red]

22 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Then good luck Amy. Unless the magical powers of her love reconfigures his synapses. How she expects a normal life  - as she has expressly wished for- I don't know. 

So which is it? A functional and marriageable partner or a brilliant  but fundamentally broken man. It has to resolve sometime. Either he is competent or not.  Certainly he is never humble.

 

These questions are at the heart of the discussions Amy and Leonard are having in the episode I saw taped earlier this week.  Certainly Amy recognizes how high maintenance he is, she loves him, but exactly how will it work out?  

Fun for us all to watch during this season.

[Nogravitasatall]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

To quote Leonard from The Proton Displacement:

Powerful words that are canon, so I take their relationship to be seen as something positive and it's why I don't really question it. Despite all the snark, banter and anger at the end of the day when it matters most they all come through for each other. They are are an unusual group of friends with their own quirks and eccentricities but it just works and that's a huge part of the appeal when watching them.

I think we sometimes forget that we only get the briefest glimpses of their lives every week, there is a lot of stuff they do together as a group or as a pair of friends that we just don't see. The Troll Manifestation for me gave us a glimpse of why they are friends and why they have been working together or collaborating for years or seeking advice from each other. And by the sounds of it we get another glimpse of that in the next episode or two with the guidance project.

Forgive me for not mentioning the specific posters name but whoever said it was escapism is spot on, some of it doesn't make sense to us at times or comes across as believable in a real world situation but it allows people to escape real life by watching something and being entertained knowing that other people have problems as well and they find ways to work through it. This show got me through the death of my mother last year and I will be eternally grateful that it gave me a place to escape to.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 I'm glad the show helped you.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Nogravitasatall
Spaces and a name

[Judith]

4 minutes ago, Lady in Red said:

These questions are at the heart of the discussions Amy and Leonard are having in the episode I saw taped earlier this week.  Certainly Amy recognizes how high maintenance he is, she loves him, but exactly how will it work out?  

Fun for us all to watch during this season.

I'm very interested in the details of the S/P and A/L discussions. Also about what exactly was said in the fight in the beginning. I would love for Amy to make a long list of all the obnoxious rules Sheldon wants to enforce and tell him how ridiculous they are.

[Lady in Red]

3 minutes ago, Judith said:

I'm very interested in the details of the S/P and A/L discussions. Also about what exactly was said in the fight in the beginning. I would love for Amy to make a long list of all the obnoxious rules Sheldon wants to enforce and tell him how ridiculous they are.

I won't pretend to remember all the details, but more fun for all when the show airs next month.  I expect it is more likely that the rules fall slowly, one by one, with laughs for us along the way.

[serena_1995]

It has been 9 years since the first episode of TBBT aired !

Today, 9 years ago, 'The Pilot' premiered on Sep, 24, 2007. Penny meets Leonard and Sheldon for the first time and as S recalls in intimacy acceleration - it was a monday afternoon and they all went out for indian food. Lol ! So I guess, it is time to wish TBBT a Happy 9th  Birthday.

Edited September 24, 2016 by serena_1995

[wowbagger]

Yeah... I've always wondered about the 'he's a little broken' line from Leonard. I used to think that that was projection from Leonard - whom I have always thought as being the really 'broken' one, if the show would properly examine it. Leonard has two neglectful parents, and has let slip some truly and consistently dark stuff (cf. the bedwetting), about his past. And Leonard is the one whose romantic storylines have arguably gone into the darkest territory. Yes, I'm talking about the boat kiss here. Sorry, Lenny friends, but I really, truly hated the way that storyline was handled. I never wanted the show to have Leonard kiss another woman. But if it did bring up something like that, I wanted it to deal with the issue properly, instead of hustling it under the carpet. Oh, and by the way, it is a bit striking to me that Sheldon's reveal about his father's infidelity should arrive in the context of the cohabitation storyline as opposed to, say, the aftermath of the finding that his best friend kissed another woman, and risked putting his own marriage on the rocks. For example, instead of the Shenny kiss, you could have had Sheldon tell Leonard this little tidbit. You're telling me the Shenny kiss was the only or best way to get Leonard (Leonard of all people) to understand that his behaviour might hurt Penny? But, sure, sure, cohabitation is a waaayyy bigger deal than an actual marriage. Eh, show? And yes, I know the simplest explanation - the writers hadn't actually thought of this awesome narrative twist at the time of Season Nine. But just because your characters have debilitating amnesia, show, doesn't mean we do. But maybe it'll be different in performance? Maybe when Sheldon tells her his story, Penny's face will show a flicker of recognition and empathy because (forgetting the boat kiss) her previous boyfriends cheated on her, even if she isn't written to say anything. We can but hope.

Anyway, I guess it's canon now-what with Sheldon's steadily mounting trauma- that Sheldon is 'broken'*. But I confess I felt a pang when the show started leaning heavily on Sheldon's trauma as an explanation of his behaviour.  I preferred the character when he was a basically functional adult (roughly seasons 1-5, ish?) with an unusual perspective on sex and romance, who happened to have some baggage- fighting parents, a mother who loved but didn't quite get him etc. - compared to the increasingly childlike savant reeling from a mountain of psychosexual trauma. I assume next that his misophobia will be rooted in, I don't know, his father's beating him if he got dirty as a child or something. I agree with @A.D.A. that the laughter kind of dries in your throat if you wonder what horrible shit gave rise to the foibles that you so happily laughed at before - and will be expected to laugh at again. And also, the character is more interesting to me (and waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy easier to 'ship with anyone else) if he is an eccentric adult matched with another eccentric adult, compared to a seriously damaged little boy with an adult's vocabulary. And sitting uneasily aside all this, is also this slightly....er.....romance-novel-tinged** idea of Sheldon as some sort of Tortured Hero with Daddy Issues, who will be Made Whole with the Love of Saint Amy. It's not as bare-faced as that***, but when the show gets all 'I AM PUSHING HER AWAY BEFORE I CAN HURT HER LIKE MY DADDY DID WITH MY MOMMY!' I can feel my bucket edging away from me, saying '....No, please. You haven't even eaten. Go dry heave over the toilet.'

* though I don't know what 'fixed' or 'whole' is, in this context.

** And hey - I love me some Georgette Heyer and Jane Austen and I am currently swooning over the Globe's Much Ado About Nothing, so no problems with romance here. 

*** Yet.

Edited September 24, 2016 by wowbagger

[Nogravitasatall]

It's ok. Sincerely. It's not a tightly wound or tightly written show. Everyone will be fine in the end. And any blood will be fake.

And doesn't raising issues about Sheldon being broken  awaken the spectre of laughing at the infirm. He has to be competent, or it's a pretty dodgy way to get a laugh.

ciao

Edited September 24, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[hokie3457]

 

Posted 38 minutes ago (edited) · Report post

It has been 9 years since the first episode of TBBT aired !

Today, 9 years ago, 'The Pilot' premiered on Sep, 24, 2007. Penny meets Leonard and Sheldon for the first time and as S recalls in intimacy acceleration - it was a monday afternoon and they all went out for indian food. Lol ! So I guess, it is time to wish TBBT a Happy 9th  Birthday.

Edited 19 minutes ago by serena_1995

You like this  Unlike this

•  
• Quote

---

 

 

....and again the quote thingy is malfunctioning....Thanks for the memory serena_1995! I just mentioned this fact to my wife and got the usual Penny-like eye roll!!!

[serena_1995]

2 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

....and again the quote thingy is malfunctioning....Thanks for the memory serena_1995! I just mentioned this fact to my wife and got the usual Penny-like eye roll!!!

Ha ! My boyfriend is always reminding me of random factoids like -"This day in TV history the show FRIENDS premiered in 1994 !" lol....So i guess i have started doing the same. Who knows, season 10 might be the last season of TBBT. Next september, who knows, if there will be a TBBT ep to look forward to...

Edited September 24, 2016 by serena_1995

[jenafan]

I'm feeling extremely dizzy right now because both sides of the S/P/L argument, and whether Penny or Amy is more important to Sheldon have gotten me thinking extremely hard.   Things have been pointed out that I've completely missed, and others I think are really stretching it.   Nonetheless, the last few pages of this thread have proved to be very entertaining for me, and I've enjoyed all the reading.

I've given more likes in this conversation than I have in a long time.  I have enjoyed everyone's points on the matter and evidence supporting their arguments.   As mentioned by another poster, the point is not for anyone to win.   All are right, because it is their perspective of the situation that they are defending.

For my part, I have no doubt that Amy is far more important to Sheldon than Penny is.    The most intimate part of Sheldon, is bound in secret by a NDA between he and Amy.   He's willing to apologize and make LA adjustments for her, after very little time deliberating on it.    In fact, the more I think about it, I believe Sheldon is more guarded around Amy because of how he feels about her.   He cares about what she thinks of him.   When Sheldon reveals things to Penny, it is in conversation.   When Sheldon reveals things to Amy, he doesn't just talk about it.  He shows her.   Big difference here.

After some more thought, this is my theory on the S/P thing:

Sheldon overestimates his ability to understand what he is thinking, feeling, or even his motivations.   Using the most recent example, he thinks that by calling out the experience he had with his Dad, he will convince Penny to also believe the "truth" he has avoided,  that desiring sex plus arguments with your SO leads to cheating.   That is he is even worried about the thought of cheating on Amy says a lot about his feelings for Amy.  

Penny feels that giving advice to Sheldon regarding the feelings, whether externally based or just within his own inability to understand his own emotions, she will help him break out of the situation and come to a more realistic conclusion.   This is what makes a great friend, and that Penny is.   However, let's also not forget that Penny is intrigued by the mystery of Sheldon.   Any opportunity that she can get to crack his head open so she can learn more about him, she will take.    I believe her when she says that Sheldon has become one of her favorite people, constantly keeping her on her toes trying to figure him out.  I think she gets some sense of satisfaction with every step he takes forward out of his shell.

As I've mentioned before, I enjoy the Shenny friendship very much.  I think it has been beneficial for both of them.   I just don't care for them using it as an opportunity to out the flaws of and make jokes about their SOs.   I think when friends get married or have a significant relationship with another, that relationship and respect for that arrangement should supercede the friendships outside of it, and that includes allowing a married couple to have their own space and making sure the majority of your attention goes to your mate. 

I agree with @camelliayao in that I understand why Sheldon would be reluctant to share such information with Amy.   However, he did.  He told her in an argument that as a male, he wants to date other women.   So true to Sheldon, instead of having a civil conversation with his girlfriend regarding his fears that concern her, he resorts to insults.    Thoughts of expiring eggs come to mind here.   Hey, Sheldon, did you not learn a lesson the last time you did this?   Just tell the woman how you feel already!    He can't.  Instead, he has to have his live-in psychiatrist, Penny, help him to sort out the matter.  

So, do I think this Shenny relationship should be nipped in the bud?  No.   At times, they are cute.   I enjoy Sheldon outing himself to Penny, seeing how Penny tells him like it is, and then Sheldon going back to Amy trying to make amends.    However, sometimes the writers miss the boat and send out the wrong message.

For my part, If TPTB are going to show Sheldon hugging Penny so affectionately at his birthday party with Amy in sight, would it have been so hard to see him show some affection toward Amy outside of a thank you for blowing his head up with a great compliment?   To me it's not okay to make fun of Leonard because of the baseball hat he chose to purchase, but then compliment Sheldon for the ridiculous net on his head.   Come on Penny?   How is that supposed to make Leonard feel?   He gets enough of the jokes and ridicule from his best friend.   Does he need it from his wife, too?    These are just a couple of examples of situations that irked me.

As the show is now in it's 10th and possibly final year, I want to see less of Sheldon turning to Penny and more Shamy conversations.  I miss the times when Sheldon reached out to Leonard for advice and Amy turned to Penny.    I want t see more of that and less of Shenny.  I want to see more quality time with Leonard and Penny supporting each other instead of someone else.

I agree @Tensor that Lenny should just throw Sheldon out and never look back.   It should not be up to them to help Shamy work out their problems so they have a means of escape from Sheldon.   Nonetheless, they know that if it doesn't work out, Sheldon the haunt will forever be at their bedroom door.  He is their friend, and it is their choice on whether to put up with him or not, whether we understand it or not.  On the Shamy front, I also think Lenny want to see the relationship succeed because they ship them as I do. 

I agree on the escapism thing.    I am also a realist and understand that TPTB are not going to please everyone.   What we see on TV is their imagination and creativity based on their ideas and perhaps some input from the audience.   In the end, we really are at their mercy, and it is up to us as the viewer to decide if we are going to find a way to enjoy, murmur, rant, watch indifferently, or simply throw in the towel over what they've given us.   

Whatever viewer attitude we take, I'm certainly enjoying the lively discussions regarding all sides.

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by jenafan

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, Lady in Red said:

These questions are at the heart of the discussions Amy and Leonard are having in the episode I saw taped earlier this week.  Certainly Amy recognizes how high maintenance he is, she loves him, but exactly how will it work out?  

Fun for us all to watch during this season.

They need to get someone like a retired nanny in the guise of a housekeeper and then Shamy as a cohabiting or married couple will function fine.

[April]

5 hours ago, wowbagger said:

 Oh, and by the way, it is a bit striking to me that Sheldon's reveal about his father's infidelity should arrive in the context of the cohabitation storyline as opposed to, say, the aftermath of the finding that his best friend kissed another woman, and risked putting his own marriage on the rocks. For example, instead of the Shenny kiss, you could have had Sheldon tell Leonard this little tidbit.

Okay, I'll bite: How the hell is that supposed to help Leonard??

Sheldon: "Leonard, I think I can help you: Look, as I already told you 5 years ago my dad cheated on my mother. Guess what, one day I caught him in the act and it kinda screwed up my sense of what healthy sexuality should be like. (My Bible thumping mom didn't help with that either now that I think about it.) By the way, that's why I took up the habit of knocking three times."

Leonard, probably: "??????????????????"

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by April

[Swedish Chef]

4 minutes ago, April said:

Okay, I'll bite: How the hell is that supposed to help Leonard??

Sheldon: "Leonard, I think I can help you: Look, as I already told you 5 years ago my dad cheated on my mother. Guess what, one day I caught him in the act and it kinda screwed up my sense of what healthy sexuality should be like. (My Bible thumping mom didn't help with either now that I think about it.) By the way, that's why I took up the habit of knocking three times."

Leonard, probably: "??????????????????"

 

This is probably the best and funniest I have read in a long time. Great work @April. 

[boys3allc]

10 minutes ago, April said:

Okay, I'll bite: How the hell is that supposed to help Leonard??

Sheldon: "Leonard, I think I can help you: Look, as I already told you 5 years ago my dad cheated on my mother. Guess what, one day I caught him in the act and it kinda screwed up my sense of what healthy sexuality should be like. (My Bible thumping mom didn't help with that either now that I think about it.) By the way, that's why I took up the habit of knocking three times."

Leonard, probably: "??????????????????"

 

The orginal post I had hidden... This response is just gold.

Sheldon: Hey Leonard my dad was a cheater too. In fact his string of infidelities along with my discovering him in flagrante delicto is what has set me on a course of a lifetime of sexual oppression. You know because I fear becoming him. Because he was a cheater like you.

Leonard: Thanks Buddy????