[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[wowbagger]

58 minutes ago, boys3allc said:

The orginal post I had hidden... This response is just gold.

Sheldon: Hey Leonard my dad was a cheater too. In fact his string of infidelities along with my discovering him in flagrante delicto is what has set me on a course of a lifetime of sexual oppression. You know because I fear becoming him. Because he was a cheater like you.

Leonard: Thanks Buddy????  

Well, yes. Thank you very much! At any rate, more elegant (to my mind) than the show's solution of:

Leonard (dreams of Sheldon hiking his tongue down Penny's throat, and wakes up terrified and-going by his expression- a leetle aroused? #Shelnard #Manlove)*

(Light bulb flashes over head)

AHA! This is how Penny must have felt when I told her about Boat Osculation with Chipped Tooth Chippy! Because this was the only way that I could work up any sort of understanding of the consequences of my behaviour!**

You (and @April as well)....truly believe that Sheldon's experiences of his father's infidelity have zero place in a plotline involving his best friend cheating on his surrogate sister? Because I think they do, and I think they far better serve that plot than to lob them at Sheldon's teething troubles with cohabitation....which, frankly, have quite enough raw material already without Daddy Issues Melodrama to add to them.

But...eh. I'm not sold (in fact, I am profoundly un-sold) on the Tragic Origins of the Triple Knock. I'm happy to say that it shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the show...up to and including that misbegotten Boat Kiss thing.

*I'm KIDDING, Lenny friends!

**God, did I hate that plot.

Edited September 24, 2016 by wowbagger

[April]

3 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

You (and @April as well)....truly believe that Sheldon's experiences of his father's infidelity have zero place in a plotline involving his best friend cheating on his surrogate sister? Because I think they do, and I think they far better serve that plot than to lob them at Sheldon's teething troubles with cohabitation....which, frankly, have quite enough raw material already without Daddy Issues Melodrama to add to them.

But HOW is that supposed to help Leonard? He already knows Sheldon's dad was a cheater. That is not brand new information. The new bit from 10x05 was revealing how that screwed with Sheldon's mind as a kid. But that specific part has nothing that could possibly help Leonard here.

Or do you want Sheldon yell at him like: "My dad already screwed me up! And now you, too!? I'll never have sex and it's all your fault, Leonard!!"

Like, honestly. I'm waiting for you to come up with some scenario in which the new information we get in 10x05 relating to Sheldon's issues with his own sexuality will help Leonard here. Humour me.

[wowbagger]

25 minutes ago, April said:

But HOW is that supposed to help Leonard? He already knows Sheldon's dad was a cheater. That is not brand new information. The new bit from 10x05 was revealing how that screwed with Sheldon's mind as a kid. But that specific part has nothing that could possibly help Leonard here.

Or do you want Sheldon yell at him like: "My dad already screwed me up! And now you, too!? I'll never have sex and it's all your fault, Leonard!!"

Like, honestly. I'm waiting for you to come up with some scenario in which the new information we get in 10x05 relating to Sheldon's issues with his own sexuality will help Leonard here. Humour me.

I don't particularly mean the information about Sheldon's sexual neuroses. As I think I've already said, I don't think that revelation is particularly valuable in any context*. And I also don't think that the issue with which Leonard needed 'help' ever was empathy. The issue with which Leonard needed help was, I think, more about the insecurity or whatever it is that drives his eagerness to play up to romantic interest from any woman, even though he is in a happy long-term relationship with the woman of his dreams. That issue wasn't ever really addressed - and since the show continues to make jokes about Leonard 'wearing Penny down', or his claim to fame being his nabbing the hot wife, I suspect it'll be some time in the addressing. I hope it does get addressed. #Bring back Malcolm's mum the therapist

But. The only narrative purpose that I can see with Leonard's dream about the Shenny kiss is to shock him into a realisation of what Penny must have felt. Which, again, I doubt was really his problem, but whatever. So, let's work in that context. If we are trying to get Leonard to arrive at a sense of the consequences of his actions...well, then, yes, I sincerely quite like your idea, don't you? In fact, let's frame it in terms of healthy relationships rather than just sex. Something like: 'My parents screwed me up. My dad slept around. I thought you and Penny had something real, but apparently you could kiss another woman and lie by omission for two years! I don't know what healthy committed relationships look like, Leonard, and Amy's left me too!' And then Sheldon could work in the thing about the Triple Knock to add heft to the realisation that these things have long-term and quite salient consequences. Which...yeah, I absolutely think is more powerful for someone like Leonard than 'If I am so upset at the sight of Sheldon kissing Penny, she must have been upset at the thought of my kissing someone else! Ur durrrr!'

 

* Maybe for Sheldon and Amy not having had sex since Opening Night? I appreciate the effort, I do. But even then....I didn't see anything in Jim Parsons' performance to indicate that he was deliberately avoiding sex with Amy. Everything I saw pointed to obliviousness, rather than seething repressed lust. And the way the punchlines were set up and constructed, it felt like the show going back to Season Six/Seven patterns of 'Fnyarr, fnyarr, look at Amy's disappointed face!'

Edited September 24, 2016 by wowbagger

[boys3allc]

13 minutes ago, April said:

But HOW is that supposed to help Leonard? He already knows Sheldon's dad was a cheater. That is not brand new information. The new bit from 10x05 was revealing how that screwed with Sheldon's mind as a kid. But that specific part has nothing that could possibly help Leonard here.

Or do you want Sheldon yell at him like: "My dad already screwed me up! And now you, too!? I'll never have sex and it's all your fault, Leonard!!"

Like, honestly. I'm waiting for you to come up with some scenario in which the new information we get in 10x05 relating to Sheldon's issues with his own sexuality will help Leonard here. Humour me.

Again only saw this is Aprils quote... I am going to assume the you was me...

but yes I believe it has 0 % to do with Leonards infidelity with his "surrogate sister" 

Mainly because Sheldon is by nature selfish. Nothing in Leonards infidelity plotline affected Sheldon directly. So why would he  bring it up when he really doesn't care? The revelation would help neither him nor Leonard.

Now in a plot sewing the seeds to what Sheldon's "deal" really is. A revelation about his fathers past indiscretions and the impact they had on his still developing young mind.... Now that is perfectly in place.

 

[2L344]

9 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

And the way the punchlines were set up and constructed, it felt like the show going back to Season Six/Seven patterns of 'Fnyarr, fnyarr, look at Amy's disappointed face!'

Had to literally lol at this whether I agree or not! and Ill admit, there were moments in S9 when this thought totally crossed my mind, complete with a "waa, waa, waa, waaaaaaa" soundtrack or a deflated balloon squeal tacked on....

[Tonstar17]

Leonard aroused? I saw a man who just had a nightmare, I haven't the foggiest idea why tptb would think the shenny kiss would show how wrong it was to kiss Mandy. He already knew that or why would he keep it a secret and it must have been killing him inside for 2 years.  Leonard knows better so should be held responsible for his actions.  I agree he should be talking to Leonard about his fears and not penny. Sheldon needs to start talking to Amy more. I felt so sorry for Amy in 10x01 how the three is a company thing is constantly rubbed in her face. She must feel so alone sometimes because I would.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Tensor
Removed comments about other posters

[wowbagger]

24 minutes ago, boys3allc said:

Again only saw this is Aprils quote... I am going to assume the you was me...

but yes I believe it has 0 % to do with Leonards infidelity with his "surrogate sister" 

Mainly because Sheldon is by nature selfish. Nothing in Leonards infidelity plotline affected Sheldon directly. So why would he  bring it up when he really doesn't care? The revelation would help neither him nor Leonard.

Now in a plot sewing the seeds to what Sheldon's "deal" really is. A revelation about his fathers past indiscretions and the impact they had on his still developing young mind.... Now that is perfectly in place.

 

Okay, I'm sorry, but I love this way of holding a conversation. If I am correct, you won't be able to see my response unless someone not on your 'ignore' list (I guess?) hits 'reply'? So I could in principle say whatever?

That. Is. Spectacular.

Flugelbinder.

Gesundheit.

Paperbagology.

Antidisestablishmentarianism.

Fraunhofer.

Verfremdungseffekt.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves/Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

 

Okay, got that out of my system. Now where were we? Oh yes, Boat Kiss and Sheldon. We don't need Sheldon to go to Leonard and say 'LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY FEELINGS ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP'. What we could have had, for example, was Leonard engaging Sheldon in conversation, and for Sheldon- with heart-rending matter-of-factness, even- tell Leonard about the origins of the triple knock. Leonard has a sense of the long-term impacts and consequences of this sort of behaviour, and Sheldon hasn't had to strain a muscle thinking about anyone other than himself. Ta-da!

As to Sheldon's 'deal': (shrugs). I was never particularly interested in Sheldon's 'deal'. I recognise I may be in the minority on this one (particularly among former 'shippers), but I never thought Sheldon's 'deal' was that pathological, or even that interesting. The 'deal' may have helped to shape his unusual perspective on things like social convention, sex and love. But it is the perspective I find interesting, not the 'deal' itself. 

[Lady in Red]

47 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Maybe for Sheldon and Amy not having had sex since Opening Night? I appreciate the effort, I do. But even then....I didn't see anything in Jim Parsons' performance to indicate that he was deliberately avoiding sex with Amy. Everything I saw pointed to obliviousness, rather than seething repressed lust. 

Agree with this point.  I think we have to go with the very slow awakening of Sheldon's libido after Opening Night.  

Although, I'm sure Jim could have done seething repressed lust, if only he had known.  

[jenafan]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

But...eh. I'm not sold (in fact, I am profoundly un-sold) on the Tragic Origins of the Triple Knock. I'm happy to say that it shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the show...up to and including that misbegotten Boat Kiss thing.

I must say I agree here.   Some things are just better left unexplained.    The only way I could wrap around this was to remember Sheldon telling Penny something to the fact that once you start, you can't stop it or something of that nature.   So, at some point in time, the excuse for the reason he originally started the knocking thing faded away, and it just became something that stuck with him.

Ugh!   This brings back the whole Anakin Skywalker midi-chlorian conception thing.   Can't we just enjoy something because it is rather than having to have it explained to us and ruin it?

It just seems TPTB feel they can't have Sheldon mature without some explanation for why he is a pain in the *ss.   While, I like the unmasking as much as Penny, some of Sheldon's reasonings are too far-fetched to understand why they haven't been aired out before now.   There have been so many opportunities and now quite a few inconsistencies.

Now, I have to believe the whole germaphobe thing was over-exaggerated by Sheldon to excuse himself from physical contact and closeness to protect him from his fears of actually becoming a flesh-and-blood human and male.   If I hear some background story to try to explain that away, I think I will shake the television off the wall, and I have a pretty large one!

Tell me please... What does worrying about being a cheater like your father have to do with dumping the bathroom schedule and sharing a toothbrush holder with the woman you are kissing?    It's about giving up control.    A big step for Sheldon, but does Amy really get what it means in the grand scheme of things?   I hope so, because I'm still trying to wrap my head around how Sheldon correlates infidelity and increased awareness of sexual need with who gets dibs in their private privy.  

Edited September 24, 2016 by jenafan

[Nogravitasatall]

Gosh - this thread can be more entertaining than what gets aired. 

Yes, when they had a slap at Leonard's halo they missed and punched him in the nuts instead. 

Well done Show. Endless opportunity for moral majority rebuttals. Wowsers.

(When looking at information I thought the rule was "the trend is your friend". Disregard the non-repeatable outlier as noise or an artefact.)

Edited September 24, 2016 by Nogravitasatall
Wowsers - exclamation made by Inspector Gadget and slang for people who have never had a drink and regretted the previous evening

[April]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

I don't particularly mean the information about Sheldon's sexual neuroses. [...]

Then there is really no point in dragging 10x05 into this. If you want Sheldon to be more judgemental and read Leonard the riot act then why didn't you just say so in the first place? If you want him go all Tyra Banks on him then sure, I'd watch that.

1 hour ago, Lady in Red said:

Agree with this point.  I think we have to go with the very slow awakening of Sheldon's libido after Opening Night.  

Although, I'm sure Jim could have done seething repressed lust, if only he had known.  

Yeah, for me the biggest problem with the post-9x11 stuff was that there was a complete absence of any information of what was happening or not happening. The writers were deliberately avoiding that topic in that, save for the "birthday suit" line, Amy didn't really ask Sheldon to hit the sheets again in any episode and neither was Sheldon put in situations that would require one reaction or other from him which would have given us a hint of some sort. They didn't even remind the audience about the once a year agreement like they do now.

...

Which of course left the writers with a nice blank canvas to play with now and sure, 10x05 is a way to fix the issue and offer an explanation. Where I'm honestly a bit baffled though is the idea that this is like some sort of brand new super tragic backstory for Sheldon when it's solely based on stuff we already knew about him anyway. It's not like his dad was presented to us as a respectful husband and wonderful father or something. And it's also not like we never saw Sheldon unaffected by his parents' imploding marriage - he had an emotional breakdown and everything in early S3. Ever since I've thought "a little broken" is putting it mildly.

Edited September 24, 2016 by April

[wowbagger]

2 minutes ago, April said:

Then there is really no point in dragging 10x05 into this. If you want Sheldon to be more judgemental and read Leonard the riot act then why didn't you just say so in the first place? If you want him go all Tyra Banks on him then sure, I'd watch that.

(blinks) there is, insofar as 10X05 relates to the infidelity of Sheldon's father and we are discussing whether a conversation pertaining to said infidelity would have a place in any post-Boat Kiss Sheldon/Leonard conversations. But even my great appetite for post-mortem equine flagellation is giving out here. So 'keep your way, i'God's name/ I have done'. Oh dear, that sounds more aggressive than I meant, but I did mention that I was rewatching Much Ado, didn't I? LLAP!

[April]

28 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

(blinks) there is, insofar as 10X05 relates to the infidelity of Sheldon's father and we are discussing whether a conversation pertaining to said infidelity would have a place in any post-Boat Kiss Sheldon/Leonard conversations. But even my great appetite for post-mortem equine flagellation is giving out here. So 'keep your way, i'God's name/ I have done'. Oh dear, that sounds more aggressive than I meant, but I did mention that I was rewatching Much Ado, didn't I? LLAP!

Oh I'm sure we'll find another one of those dead horses soon enough!

[camelliayao]

1 hour ago, April said:

Then there is really no point in dragging 10x05 into this. If you want Sheldon to be more judgemental and read Leonard the riot act then why didn't you just say so in the first place? If you want him go all Tyra Banks on him then sure, I'd watch that.

Yeah, for me the biggest problem with the post-9x11 stuff was that there was a complete absence of any information of what was happening or not happening. The writers were deliberately avoiding that topic in that, save for the "birthday suit" line, Amy didn't really ask Sheldon to hit the sheets again in any episode and neither was Sheldon put in situations that would require one reaction or other from him which would have given us a hint of some sort. They didn't even remind the audience about the once a year agreement like they do now.

My interpretation of 1005 is Sheldon's sexual awakening happens after he and Amy move in together in 4B. So in 9x11, he does it more as giving a gift to Amy. He doesn't need sex physically back then, but he needs the sense of security/assurance that Amy won't leave again/or whatever. That's why he acts he has no desire ever since, because he really doesn't have much back then. It's like CL said in his interview, Sheldon did it, enjoyed it, but didn't find the need to do it again until next year.

If the cohabitation experiment never happens, maybe Sheldon will keep his current status forever. But apparently living so close to Amy and maybe feeling her existence in his personal space everyday does something to Sheldon. Now he is sexually awaken. 

Honestly, all above is just me trying to explain the situation so I can make peace with myself. The way the writers dealt with coitus since 9x11 really was a disaster IMO. I still don't get why their attitude towards LA, Sheldon's sexuality suddenly changed in this season. They seemed pretty stubborn at keeping everything status quo in S9.

It's like before Sheldon has no desire, now he has desire for every hot girl. So it's either none or too much... Jeez. I know we interprete the hubba hubba line as Sheldon overreacting but currently I'm still cauciously optimistic. I really hope 1005 turns out how we hope it would turn out and their second time is not a gift, again.

More importantly, I really really really hope this whole cohabitation-coitus plot is the writers actually trying to move Shamy forward, not a device to draw attention and then they'll abadon it pretending nothing happened like what they did to coitus last season.

Edited September 24, 2016 by camelliayao

[Guest]

I don't even know what the hell you all are talking about.

[vonmar]

16 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

My interpretation of 1005 is Sheldon's sexual awakening happens after he and Amy move in together in 4B. So in 9x11, he does it more as giving a gift to Amy. He doesn't need sex physically back then, but he needs the sense of security/assurance that Amy won't leave again/or whatever. That's why he acts he has no desire ever since, because he really didn't have much back then. It's like CL said in his interview, Sheldon did it, enjoyed it, but didn't find the need to do it again until next year.

If the cohabitation experiment never happens, maybe Sheldon will keep his current status forever. But apparently living so close to Amy and maybe feeling her existence in his personal space everyday does something to Sheldon. Now he is sexually awaken. 

Honestly, all above is just me trying to explain the situation so I can make peace with myself. The way the writers dealt with coitus since 9x11 really was a disaster IMO. I still don't get why their attitude towards LA, Sheldon's sexuality suddenly changed in this season. They seemed pretty stubborn at keeping everything status quo in S9.

It's like before Sheldon has no desire, now he has desire for every hot girl. So it's either none or too much... Jeez. I know we interprete the hubba hubba line as Sheldon overreacting but currently I'm still cauciously optimistic. I really hope 1005 turns out how we hope it would turn out and their second time is not a gift, again.

More importantly, I really really really hope this whole cohabitation-coitus plot is the writers actually trying to move Shamy forward, not a device to draw attention and then they'll abadon it pretending nothing happened like what they did to coitus last season.

I am really starting to think that this has a lot to do with the uncertainty of future seasons.  The writers are really flying blind here...they may be writing scripts in a way as to nudge story lines forward on the oft chance that they might have to wrap the show up (by April 2017) in a way that doesn't anger the fans and fandoms.

If we see a contract renewal and a 1 or 2 season pick up, the writing tone may abruptly change.  (Just a stab in the dark on my part)

[Tonstar17]

My interpretation of 1005 is Sheldon's sexual awakening happens after he and Amy move in together in 4B. So in 9x11, he does it more as giving a gift to Amy. He doesn't need sex physically back then, but he needs the sense of security/assurance that Amy won't leave again/or whatever. That's why he acts he has no desire ever since, because he really didn't have much back then. It's like CL said in his interview, Sheldon did it, enjoyed it, but didn't find the need to do it again until next year.
If the cohabitation experiment never happens, maybe Sheldon will keep his current status forever. But apparently living so close to Amy and maybe feeling her existence in his personal space everyday does something to Sheldon. Now he is sexually awaken. 
Honestly, all above is just me trying to explain the situation so I can make peace with myself. The way the writers dealt with coitus since 9x11 really was a disaster IMO. I still don't get why their attitude towards LA, Sheldon's sexuality suddenly changed in this season. They seemed pretty stubborn at keeping everything status quo in S9.
It's like before Sheldon has no desire, now he has desire for every hot girl. So it's either none or too much... Jeez. I know we interprete the hubba hubba line as Sheldon overreacting but currently I'm still cauciously optimistic. I really hope 1005 turns out how we hope it would turn out and their second time is not a gift, again.
More importantly, I really really really hope this whole cohabitation-coitus plot is the writers actually trying to move Shamy forward, not a device to draw attention and then they'll abadon it pretending nothing happened like what they did to coitus last season.

Hey don't worry Sheldon is tptb money bag. Shamy have always been slow but when Sheldon start doing it again he will be a sex God and the best at it. When they get engaged it will be the best ever storyline, so will be when they get married. It will be planned properly and probably an arc building up to it spanning 6 episodes and all the characters going out their way to make it so because everyone's life is put on hold for Sheldon. Don't know what you are worried about. It's going to be a happy ending and you would love it.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

[Nogravitasatall]

Why does it matter if they anger the fans when they wrap? It's before they wrap that they need to care. After is not a problem for them.

[legacy99]

And there won't be any interruptions during their wedding

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Tonstar17]

And there won't be any interruptions during their wedding

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Ofcouse not. The only person allowed to interrupt Sheldon wedding is Sheldon. All the other characters will be in the background lavishing him with love and crying tears of joy.

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[camelliayao]

17 minutes ago, vonmar said:

I am really starting to think that this has a lot to do with the uncertainty of future seasons.  The writers are really flying blind here...they may be writing scripts in a way as to nudge story lines forward on the oft chance that they might have to wrap the show up (by April 2017) in a way that doesn't anger the fans and fandoms.

If we see a contract renewal and a 1 or 2 season pick up, the writing tone may abruptly change.  (Just a stab in the dark on my part)

That makes a lot of sense. Now I kind of want S10 to be the last lol. Just kidding. 

Although, with the kind of progress they're making now (cohabitation, Sheldon's sexual awakening), it doesn't feel like they can move backwards if they do get picked up more seasons?

[vonmar]

3 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

That makes a lot of sense. Now I kind of want S10 to be the last lol. Just kidding. 

Although, with the kind of progress they're making now (cohabitation, Sheldon's sexual awakening), it doesn't feel like they can move backwards if they do get picked up more seasons?

No, but they can stall any forward movement...drag it out a bit longer.

[Tensor]

15 hours ago, camelliayao said:

But, I also believe in order to not let things get out of control, they've been very subtle about the closeness of S&P. And by subtle I mean I never see anything, at least not anything from Sheldon's side, suggesting that he's more comfortable sharing things with Penny than Amy just because he trusts Penny more. So until such moments occur, I'm gonna hold on to my theory.

Well, as I don't think they've been subtle about it at all, well have to agree to disagree.  It's quite obvious to me, that  Sheldon has been shown to be able to tell everyone and their brother about various things in his life, especially Penny, before telling the woman he supposedly loves.  

[spidergirl]

7 minutes ago, vonmar said:

No, but they can stall any forward movement...drag it out a bit longer.

Yeah but it would be bad. If the show is renewed for 2 more seasons, they would keep lenny living with Sheldon and Amy in her apartment again for drag it out enough to more what, 50 episodes before a shamy proposal? Jeez, really hope not! The characters need to keep with their lives foward, not running in circles.

Edited September 24, 2016 by spidergirl

[vonmar]

Just now, spidergirl said:

Yeah but it would be bad. If the show is renewed for 2 more seasons, they would keep lenny living with Sheldon and Amy in her apartment again for drag it out enough to more 50 episodes? Jeez, really hope not! The characters need to keep with their lives foward, not running ib circles.

Stall may have been the wrong word.  It seems that they are currently accelerating S/A relationship. If they got any sort of pick up,  they might pull back slightly in order to "milk" the story line.