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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

Sheldon has directly acknowledged that Penny is attractive long before 10.05. He said "No one can be that attractive and be skilled at a video game" when they played halo. But  he never had any attraction for Penny (and vice versa). Sheldon also compared Raj's date, Lalita, to a beautiful Indian princess in The Grasshopper Experiment. So, imo, Sheldon knows what attractive women look like, but that doesn't always mean he, himself,  is attracted to them. 

Agreed.  In addition, he called Penny's nether regions fancy.   He seems to understand their appeal, but has no desire to indulge.

Sheldon knows what is attractive and beautiful.   Like you said, he's just never been attracted to anyone in that way.    Even with Amy, his attraction for her was her mind.    I think Sheldon's awakening is because being in such close proximity to Amy all the time, getting out of the shower, seeing her naked, catching glimpses of her nuances, sleeping next to her, etc. has awakened him.   It's not that he never had it within him, he just suppressed it.   In the current situation, the exposure to Amy is overriding his ability to suppress his urges.   His mind is losing the battle against the needs of his body. 

As he's never had this happen to him before, he over analyzes the situation and creates worry and panic within himself that doesn't need to exist.   Amy is a beautiful woman underneath all those layers of wool and polyester, and it has caught his attention.  Perhaps Sheldon is making comparisons by taking more notice of the physical qualities of other women now, not because he's attracted to them, but because he sees for himself just how lucky he is.   He's got the brains and the beauty at his side, and he doesn't know how to handle it.  He's seeing Amy as a woman now, not just the brilliant scientist.   Not only that, he knows that Amy is panting for him.   He sees it in her stares, hears in her comments, etc.     He is overwhelmed, and more importantly, he's worried that by giving in, he will ruin it all based on his understanding of the equation that bickering + sexual desire =  infidelity.   He's yet to learn that sexual desire + unfulfilled need for satisfaction = sexual tension = needless bickering.    Also that bickering + sex = making up.    Amy needs to learn these things too, but I think she has a bit better understanding than Sheldon does.

It's a classic case of sabotage and control, with Sheldon thinking he's doing the other person a favor, when really it's a selfish act to preserve his own fear of disappointment.   I think he wants but doesn't think he deserves Amy.   He loves her.  So, he'd rather ruin or end the relationship then take a chance that Amy might see who he thinks he really is, get hurt, and then want to end it.     He's doing the thinking for her and predicting his actions according to the example of his father.  

I'm glad Penny helped him come to his senses.   I just wish he could have opened up to Amy about it instead.

Edited by jenafan
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I guess what I expected to happen with Shamy moving in together, was something extremely gradual.  First a story line were Amy moves in, but at first her moving into Leonard's room, while Lenny moves over to 4B.  Then some episodes with parts in them of Amy and Sheldon getting use to living together, Amy and Penny talking together a lot as Amy learns more about Sheldon, and of course Penny and Leonard visiting them all the time.  Then at one point, maybe a romantic night of watching Star Trek, they go to bed together, which results in the discussion of them, from now on, sharing the same bed.  Sheldon sort of freaks about the big move, so Penny and Leonard move back into his room, which sort of forces the issue, but them being there makes things less changed for him which calms him.  Then we have several episodes of the four of them living in one apartment and all the problems/humor that causes, things like the girls getting mad at the guys and camping out in 4B until they apologize, etc..  Finally they all realize that that are driving each other nuts and need to move apart, so Lenny move to 4A for good.  It's then that Sheldon tells Amy that they need to make it permanent and proposes, and the wedding comes a few episodes later.  That is the season 10 and 11 I expected, not the way 10.05 is leading.

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2 hours ago, jenafan said:

I agree 100%.  In fact, maybe I am reading too much into this, but the signs are all there that this is plausible:

  • Sheldon lived in his office at the university and used their facilities when he didn't have a ride to work.  He can do small if he has to.
  • Agreement between Leonard and Sheldon that upon termination of the Roommate Agreement, Sheldon keeps the couch.
  • Sheldon apparently does not own much stuff given how empty the apartment looked when he reverted back to 2003 and was willing to live that way.
  • Amy has said she wants to move out of her apartment.   By having her live with Sheldon, that eliminates a set on the stage.
  • Sheldon has a storage room.   So, he's not opposed to having his things kept elsewhere.   Like you said, his bedroom in 4A can serve as storage for things he doesn't need all the time.  
  • Sheldon's bed is too freaking small.   Amy's bed accommodates both of them nicely.    All they have to do is widen the set of Penny's bedroom a little bit.   By replacing the furniture in there and re-painting, it will looks like a whole different room.   The change in dimensions would be barely noticeable.
  • Sheldon volunteered to move to 4B with Amy.   Perhaps, as mentioned by another poster, he finds he likes the more compact area.
  • As mentioned before, he has no choice.   Leonard has hinted they've changed the locks.   So, I still stand by my hope to see Sheldon open the door to find 4B has become his permanent home, thanks to some industrious little mice insisting that this is the way it is now, and there is no turning back to what was.  Tough love, indeed.

The more and more I think about it, I like Sheldon living in 4B with or without Amy a lot.   Lenny have gotten extremely comfortable in Sheldon's kitchen, and in Leonard's bedroom.   We've hardly seen them at all in 4B.    It seems to me they've kind of claimed 4A as theirs, and Sheldon is their houseguest rather than the other way around.    

If Amy and Sheldon decide to cohabitate permanently, I think a nice twist would be if Sheldon told Lenny to go ahead and keep the couch with his spot and large coffee table since they do have the bigger place, and will likely be the main entertainer for guests.  Leonard is the one who bought it anyway, and he's always a part of the game and movie ensemble anyway.   No big deal.  4A still remains a hub for the men to get together.   Penny would understand, since she gets her husband's and his friends' geeky side.

Amy can move her sofa into 4B with the nice Afghan on the back.   Given that Sheldon declared neutral ground, if Amy and Sheldon do end up living together, it would be nice that they build their nest together picking and choosing who's stuff gets to go in the apartment.   The girls can still have their chatter box and wine sessions in 4B with no impact whatsoever.  

Penny can either have her stuff moved into storage, find a place for it in 4B, give some of it to Amy, or sell it to pay off some of her debts.

I see a lot of potential for a big change here. 

Hmmm... You're certainly making a good case that it could happen and how that could work. However, I'm still going back and forth on the questions of: Do I like this? Do I want this to happen? Will it happen??

To paraphrase from the Mars episode here, a lot of things that most people would have thought to be impossible with regards to Sheldon now seem possible. The opportunity to do something radical is certainly there. And yes, Sheldon without his spot seems pretty radical for this show. But is it more radical than some of the other things they've done with him? Hmm... hard to tell.

But regardless of who gets what apartment how would this work? 4A still is the hub of the gang and maybe the characters have some agreement that they'll basically treat 4A and 4B as one big apartment in some ways. I think in terms of story function though whoever gets 4A will have to live with more trespassing of some sort, while 4B will provide more privacy simply because 4A seems to be the more favoured set recently. So Sheldon keeping some stuff in 4A or having visiting rights to his beloved spot or whatever I fear will result in Lenny still being pestered by him at every opportunity. So Idk if there would be anything gained here??? I mean, for the writers, sure, cause they have a cheap excuse to still play the "Lenny are annoyed by Sheldon" card but for the shippers? (Not that the writers would care about the shippers, mind you.) If you switch the situation and have Lenny move into 4B they'd surely have more privacy cause Sheldon has all his stuff in 4A. They'd also have the chance to annoy Sheldon for a change, so there's that. Throw in Amy with her lack of experience living with even more than one person that could lead to some comedy. And yeah, I'm one of the few Shamy shippers who'd be fine with the occasional interruption by Lenny, I'd probably find the switched roles hilarious. (But again, not that the writers would care.)

So yeah... I think I might still prefer Shamy in 4A and Lenny in 4B. But what's more likely to happen?? I honestly can't tell at this point. We'll see.

Either way though, I would love to have both couples plan moving in together for good after the experiment is over. And the logistics of it can even take up some time to, say, remodel the sets a bit and have some chaos while things get renovated, stuff gets moved around, Amy has to deal with her lease, etc. etc. It could be a way to keep the status quo for a little while longer but at the same time still show some progress. Fingers crossed! :D

Edited by April
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On 24-9-2016 at 3:36 PM, wowbagger said:

Yeah... I've always wondered about the 'he's a little broken' line from Leonard. I used to think that that was projection from Leonard - whom I have always thought as being the really 'broken' one, if the show would properly examine it. Leonard has two neglectful parents, and has let slip some truly and consistently dark stuff (cf. the bedwetting), about his past. And Leonard is the one whose romantic storylines have arguably gone into the darkest territory. Yes, I'm talking about the boat kiss here. Sorry, Lenny friends, but I really, truly hated the way that storyline was handled. I never wanted the show to have Leonard kiss another woman. But if it did bring up something like that, I wanted it to deal with the issue properly, instead of hustling it under the carpet. Oh, and by the way, it is a bit striking to me that Sheldon's reveal about his father's infidelity should arrive in the context of the cohabitation storyline as opposed to, say, the aftermath of the finding that his best friend kissed another woman, and risked putting his own marriage on the rocks. For example, instead of the Shenny kiss, you could have had Sheldon tell Leonard this little tidbit. You're telling me the Shenny kiss was the only or best way to get Leonard (Leonard of all people) to understand that his behaviour might hurt Penny? But, sure, sure, cohabitation is a waaayyy bigger deal than an actual marriage. Eh, show? And yes, I know the simplest explanation - the writers hadn't actually thought of this awesome narrative twist at the time of Season Nine. But just because your characters have debilitating amnesia, show, doesn't mean we do. But maybe it'll be different in performance? Maybe when Sheldon tells her his story, Penny's face will show a flicker of recognition and empathy because (forgetting the boat kiss) her previous boyfriends cheated on her, even if she isn't written to say anything. We can but hope.

Anyway, I guess it's canon now-what with Sheldon's steadily mounting trauma- that Sheldon is 'broken'*. But I confess I felt a pang when the show started leaning heavily on Sheldon's trauma as an explanation of his behaviour.  I preferred the character when he was a basically functional adult (roughly seasons 1-5, ish?) with an unusual perspective on sex and romance, who happened to have some baggage- fighting parents, a mother who loved but didn't quite get him etc. - compared to the increasingly childlike savant reeling from a mountain of psychosexual trauma. I assume next that his misophobia will be rooted in, I don't know, his father's beating him if he got dirty as a child or something. I agree with @A.D.A. that the laughter kind of dries in your throat if you wonder what horrible shit gave rise to the foibles that you so happily laughed at before - and will be expected to laugh at again. And also, the character is more interesting to me (and waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy easier to 'ship with anyone else) if he is an eccentric adult matched with another eccentric adult, compared to a seriously damaged little boy with an adult's vocabulary. And sitting uneasily aside all this, is also this slightly....er.....romance-novel-tinged** idea of Sheldon as some sort of Tortured Hero with Daddy Issues, who will be Made Whole with the Love of Saint Amy. It's not as bare-faced as that***, but when the show gets all 'I AM PUSHING HER AWAY BEFORE I CAN HURT HER LIKE MY DADDY DID WITH MY MOMMY!' I can feel my bucket edging away from me, saying '....No, please. You haven't even eaten. Go dry heave over the toilet.'

* though I don't know what 'fixed' or 'whole' is, in this context.

** And hey - I love me some Georgette Heyer and Jane Austen and I am currently swooning over the Globe's Much Ado About Nothing, so no problems with romance here. 

*** Yet.

 

My main complaint about the show is that it is not funny anymore, since Penny got a "serious job" and no longer is the out-sider.

I don't understand this sort of anger, why do you care so much?

 

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Let's not forget a little tidbit from the 10.5 tr: Sheldon, coming back with Penny from the ice-cream parlor to 4a, goes and sits on the sofa next to Amy but not on his spot at first. So, after a few days living with Amy in 4b, he forgets himself and relaxes so much that he actually sits somewhere other than his spot.

What I'm trying to say is, who knows how far the writers are willing to take Sheldon? Maybe they'll end up treating all of his idiosyncrasies as PTSD and have Amy heal them or something [a little joke ; ), but also kinda serious ]

Edited by Judith
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3 minutes ago, Judith said:

Let's not forget a little tidbit from the 10.5 tr: Sheldon, coming back with Penny from the ice-cream parlor to 4a, goes and sits on the sofa next to Amy but not on his spot at first. So, after a few days living with Amy in 4b, he forgets himself and relaxes so much that he actually sits somewhere other than his spot.

What I'm trying to say is, who knows how far are willing to take Sheldon? Maybe they'll end up treating all of his idiosyncrasies as PTSD and have Amy heal them or something [a little joke ; ), but also kinda serious ]

Oh god, yes, that too! Maybe by the end of the experiment they'll all be like "Who is this guy and what has he done with Sheldon Cooper?!??" This is getting a bit spooky. LOL

More seriously though, I'm all for Sheldon overcoming some emotional baggage and pushing his boundaries but the writers better keep a bit of balance here and not go completely overboard.

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57 minutes ago, April said:

But regardless of who gets what apartment how would this work? 4A still is the hub of the gang and maybe the characters have some agreement that they'll basically treat 4A and 4B as one big apartment in some ways. I think in terms of story function though whoever gets 4A will have to live with more trespassing of some sort, while 4B will provide more privacy simply because 4A seems to be the more favoured set recently. So Sheldon keeping some stuff in 4A or having visiting rights to his beloved spot or whatever I fear will result in Lenny still being pestered by him at every opportunity. So Idk if there would be anything gained here??? I mean, for the writers, sure, cause they have a cheap excuse to still play the "Lenny are annoyed by Sheldon" card but for the shippers? (Not that the writers would care about the shippers, mind you.) If you switch the situation and have Lenny move into 4B they'd surely have more privacy cause Sheldon has all his stuff in 4A. They'd also have the chance to annoy Sheldon for a change, so there's that. Throw in Amy with her lack of experience living with even more than one person that could lead to some comedy. And yeah, I'm one of the few Shamy shippers who'd be fine with the occasional interruption by Lenny, I'd probably find the switched roles hilarious. (But again, not that the writers would care.)

Because Sheldon's appears to be the king of the island of the misfit toys, everyone else seems to be caught in his gravitational pull.   So, whether he lives in 4A, 4B, or on the roof, he's going to find some way to annoy everyone.  If Lenny move to 4B, he will just annoy them there, sleeping on their couch, 3-knocking on the door needing something etc.   In all honesty, they will never completely eliminate Sheldon's interference.  They can only succeed at reducing it.

I agree that it would be humorous if the roles were reversed and Lenny constantly bugged Shamy, and Amy became annoyed by them having more than one person around all the time.   However, I don't see it.   In fact, I think Amy would enjoy being the center of such a social life.     By having Amy in apartment 4B, it's easier to explain her absences and allow the writer's to limit her time on screen as a secondary character.

I think Sheldon will always be around in one form or another to cause interference, but it's more tolerable as long as we know he is not living with Lenny 24/7.

Whose to say with the contract negotiations that Amy does not become a main character with the new living situation if the show is renewed, and we do get to see more Shamy and less of Sheldon and Lenny?   Perhaps the cohabitation experiment is not just for the audience, but to wait and see the result of things happening behind the scenes before knowing what direction to move into.

Edited by jenafan
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6 minutes ago, Judith said:

Let's not forget a little tidbit from the 10.5 tr: Sheldon, coming back with Penny from the ice-cream parlor to 4a, goes and sits on the sofa next to Amy but not on his spot at first. So, after a few days living with Amy in 4b, he forgets himself and relaxes so much that he actually sits somewhere other than his spot.

What I'm trying to say is, who knows how far the writers are willing to take Sheldon? Maybe they'll end up treating all of his idiosyncrasies as PTSD and have Amy heal them or something [a little joke ; ), but also kinda serious ]

Isn't Amy's life-fullfilling journey of treating Sheldon's various characteristics (PTSD, or well...whatever they just ran into while watching Dr. Phil) the story of theirs for some time now already ?:cool:

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2 minutes ago, tallin said:

Isn't Amy's life-fullfilling journey of treating Sheldon's various characteristics (PTSD, or well...whatever they just ran into while watching Dr. Phil) the story of theirs for some time now already ?:cool:

Lol - I guess that's one way to look at it :)

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6 minutes ago, jenafan said:

 we do get to see more Shamy and less of Sheldon and Lenny? 

So you want the Shamy show ?

If it will be less of Lenny than they will not have any screen time at all. 

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2 minutes ago, tallin said:

Isn't Amy's life-fullfilling journey of treating Sheldon's various characteristics (PTSD, or well...whatever they just ran into while watching Dr. Phil) the story of theirs for some time now already ?:cool:

I hope not, because some of Sheldon's idiosyncracies and quirkiness are the reasons she's attracted to him.   I don't want them to do away with them all.    I think if he gave up the three knock, many would miss it.  At least they now have a warning before opening the door.

What Amy really wants to do is crack into his brain to better understand what makes him tick?

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Whoever ends up in 4B will have the opportunity to more privacy, that much seems obvious. Molaro has said whatever changes are made and whatever the end outcome 4A will still remain the central hub of the show. And honestly that should be the case, it's fears over changing that have put them off this decision for a long time and for good reason.

Edited by Jonny
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1 minute ago, Lagernisse said:

So you want the Shamy show ?

If it will be less of Lenny than they will not have any screen time at all. 

That is not what I mean.    I am a Shamy shipper, so Shamy is of course foremost my interest on the show.   I've never hid that fact, nor do I do so in my commentary even when I am supporting Lenny.

I mean if we see more Shamy, than we get to see more Lenny.   If Sheldon has scenes with Amy, then we get more scenes of Lenny without Sheldon.   This doesn't mean the Shamy scenes have to take up the majority of the air time.   Shamies are happy with even just a couple minutes of Shamy, as long as they are quality minutes.  

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2 minutes ago, jenafan said:

That is not what I mean.    I am a Shamy shipper, so Shamy is of course foremost my interest on the show.   I've never hid that fact, nor do I do so in my commentary even when I am supporting Lenny.

I mean if we see more Shamy, than we get to see more Lenny.   If Sheldon has scenes with Amy, then we get more scenes of Lenny without Sheldon.   This doesn't mean the Shamy scenes have to take up the majority of the air time.   Shamies are happy with even just a couple minutes of Shamy, as long as they are quality minutes.  

Thanks for your explanation. 

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22 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Gosh - this thread can be more entertaining than what gets aired. 

Yes, when they had a slap at Leonard's halo they missed and punched him in the nuts instead. 

Well done Show. Endless opportunity for moral majority rebuttals. Wowsers.

(When looking at information I thought the rule was "the trend is your friend". Disregard the non-repeatable outlier as noise or an artefact.)

Edited 22 hours ago by Nogravitasatall
Wowsers - exclamation made by Inspector Gadget and slang for people who have never had a drink and regretted the previous evening
 
  •  

Inspector Gadget The Movie starred Mathew Broderick and the gorgeous Joely Fisher, also Inspector Gadget had help from his niece Penny!

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34 minutes ago, jenafan said:

I hope not, because some of Sheldon's idiosyncracies and quirkiness are the reasons she's attracted to him.   I don't want them to do away with them all.    I think if he gave up the three knock, many would miss it.  At least they now have a warning before opening the door.

What Amy really wants to do is crack into his brain to better understand what makes him tick?

In the spirit of new season I'll try to believe you :) I have a hope for the two...at least till Lorre finds a new way to poop all over it.

I'm sure gang would miss it horribly. That kind of warning should be enforced for the sake of all those around Dr. Sheldon Cooper.:icon_lol:

Edited by tallin
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2 hours ago, jenafan said:

Amy is a beautiful woman underneath all those layers of wool and polyester.

Amy is a beautiful woman, with or without the layers of wool and polyester.

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1 hour ago, jenafan said:

I hope not, because some of Sheldon's idiosyncracies and quirkiness are the reasons she's attracted to him.   I don't want them to do away with them all.    I think if he gave up the three knock, many would miss it.  At least they now have a warning before opening the door.

What Amy really wants to do is crack into his brain to better understand what makes him tick?

Speaking of ticks, I wonder how bad Sheldon's will get after he misses his spot for a few weeks...

ticks-sheldon.gif

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A few hours off line and I have lots of good posts to read. So good!

I m rewatching The colonization application and there is a quote of Sheldon that he said some things he thought it would not be possible for him and Amy were being possible at that moment. What I mean is maybe finaly writers decided to use more of the spirit that Sheldon s quote holds and they may get a bit more bold about the future of Sheldon and Amy, as they need to go foward in their relationship, keeping their slow pace but taking steps foward.

There is so much room for funny things as they live together temporarly or not and it is healthy to the show that new things are brought for both couples and I really think that lenny needs this la for go foward about their relationship as well. I believe that  what is being settled wont be too much drag out or even get backwards.

The show for goes on needs a happy audience and not an audience that feels te show is repetitive or out of evolution. There are so many tv shows out there that  tbbt cant risk to not keep a certain quality level because even the most loyal fan can leave as some radical bad change happens to their fav character or ship. 

And last but not least, I loved (dont remember who said for quoting as I read so many posts, sorry) the idea of  the Sheldon s stuff being put in 4b for lenny and he cant do nothing about it because locks were changed. Writers, this has so much comedy potencial and we realy need to keep laughing so much with these beloved characters s their lives go foward. 

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1 hour ago, tallin said:

In the spirit of new season I'll try to believe you :) I have a hope for the two...at least till Lorre finds a new way to poop all over it.

I'm sure gang would miss it horribly. That kind of warning should be enforced for the sake of all those around Dr. Sheldon Cooper.:icon_lol:

Thanks for the visual. Lol. :) .

In lieu of the knock they could reinstate the door-cam... and also install a siren. (Remember those happy days of Dr Cooper lying twitching on the floor, convulsed by electricity - Howard probably still has the kit)

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1 hour ago, jenafan said:

I mean if we see more Shamy, than we get to see more Lenny.   If Sheldon has scenes with Amy, then we get more scenes of Lenny without Sheldon.   This doesn't mean the Shamy scenes have to take up the majority of the air time.   Shamies are happy with even just a couple minutes of Shamy, as long as they are quality minutes.  

I'd loose interest fast if we just got Shamy in one suite and Lenny in another all the time.

Edited by djsurrey
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4 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

For the bold part, Sheldon called Amy pretty in Prom Equivalency .

For the bold part, Sheldon has directly acknowledged that Penny is attractive long before 10.05. He said "No one can be that attractive and be skilled at a video game" when they played halo. But  he never had any attraction for Penny(and vice versa). So I guess that is why he was sorry for not hitting on Penny. Sheldon also compared Raj's date, Lalita, to a beautiful Indian princess in The Grasshopper Experiment(causing her to fall for him). So, imo, Sheldon knows what pretty women look like, but that doesn't always mean he, himself,  is attracted to them. 

Exactly. Sheldon knows what attractive is, at least what attractive is by conventional standard. He has called Penny, Bernie and Mandy "beautiful" or "attractive" before, if I recall correctly. He's just not physically attracted to them.

I think for Sheldon to be physically attracted to someone, he has to have a deep romantic emotional relationship first, and Amy's the only one he has that relationship with. (And even that, his sexual desire didn't awake immediately after they had sex) So to me Sheldon's demisexual. Of course that's only my interpretation of the latest TR. Who knows, maybe the writers want to tell us Sheldon is now aroused by every hot girl walking by.

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