Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

[Judith]

42 minutes ago, April said:

Anyway... yeah, the thing is if Coitus 2.0 doesn't happen then Molaro will have to face an outrage. People have been patiently waiting for a year so there are expectations. The only way out of this is if this episode has something equally satisfying for the audience. I don't know if the LA transition coming to an end would be it cause we've been dealing with that for a few episodes now. Proposal? Eh, I don't really care about that right now but that might just be me. I wouldn't hate it but I'm not exactly rooting for it to happen right now either.

I can't think of anything else that would be equally satisfying. The coitus storyline is the most urgent to resolve. Up until now, I thought that 10.11 would be the furthest possible deadline but the writers might try and go even beyond that. I didn't think it was possible but who knows what they think anymore?

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, April said:

Anyway... yeah, the thing is if Coitus 2.0 doesn't happen then Molaro will have to face an outrage. People have been patiently waiting for a year so there are expectations. The only way out of this is if this episode has something equally satisfying for the audience. I don't know if the LA transition coming to an end would be it cause we've been dealing with that for a few episodes now. Proposal? Eh, I don't really care about that right now but that might just be me. I wouldn't hate it but I'm not exactly rooting for it to happen right now either.

I'll be there with my pitchfork just like everyone else lol. Yeah I am higher on the engagement than a lot of people but that's just me lol

Edited November 21, 2016 by Jonny

[Soopysue]

@mirs1 he's come such a long way , Awww !! Yes with regard to broadcast, I'm sure I read 1st Dec was the one with CL - so 10.10. In theory if we get 10.11 & 10.12 before the holidays, Shamy coitus Mark 2 could be in 10.12 ?!!!! Anyway I'm such a happy shipper right now, I'm going with the flow ! X

15 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I'll be there with my pitchfork just like everyone else lol. Yeah I am higher on the engagement than a lot of people but that's just me lol

I'm with you on engagement - can't wait !!!!!

[spidergirl]

28 minutes ago, Soopysue said:

 

I'm with you on engagement - can't wait !!!!!

I am with you and @Jonny on this!

Can not wait either! Coitus , engagement, more shamy goodness, whatever that give happiness and pleasure to our beloved couple

[April]

58 minutes ago, Judith said:

I can't think of anything else that would be equally satisfying. The coitus storyline is the most urgent to resolve. Up until now, I thought that 10.11 would be the furthest possible deadline but the writers might try and go even beyond that. I didn't think it was possible but who knows what they think anymore?

Same. I mean, sure they could go beyond 10x11 with arguing "Well actually, it's only October in TBBT-land so we have a couple more weeks until Amy's birthday!" and I would be so annoyed. ughhh

The biggest problem isn't even the technicality of it all (which swayed me enough to be complacent with the 10x11 thing) but they have a really good momentum right now with the cohabitation storyline, we even had a few teases of them having the hots for each other that it makes it believable that the tension just might spill over any moment now. I mean, we had a bit of momentum in S9 but that didn't get anywhere, now we have the whole thing with the cohabitation and if that cools down again -sorry for the blunt metaphor- the show starts to feel like an overeager lover who's way too obsessed with foreplay: there's just so much time you can do this before the other gets bored and checks out mentally to write next week's grocery list. Jeez.

Edited November 21, 2016 by April

[camelliayao]

Do we know the air date of 10.11? Is it the last episode before hiatus?

[kimbee73]

  Just curious if they could have an episode December 1 and December 8 then hiatus the 15th and 22nd and have an episode that catches us up on December 29. I mean with 5 Thursdays in December it could be possible but I know the last couple years there hasn't been an episode on Thanksgiving and the week after because of the NBC special live thing.

[mirs1]

32 minutes ago, kimbee73 said:

  Just curious if they could have an episode December 1 and December 8 then hiatus the 15th and 22nd and have an episode that catches us up on December 29. I mean with 5 Thursdays in December it could be possible but I know the last couple years there hasn't been an episode on Thanksgiving and the week after because of the NBC special live thing.

In general they air just repeats during Holidays, I don't think they would air a brand new episode on December 29, ratings wise would be a bad choice.

[Judith]

1 hour ago, April said:

Same. I mean, sure they could go beyond 10x11 with arguing "Well actually, it's only October in TBBT-land so we have a couple more weeks until Amy's birthday!" and I would be so annoyed. ughhh

The biggest problem isn't even the technicality of it all (which swayed me enough to be complacent with the 10x11 thing) but they have a really good momentum right now with the cohabitation storyline, we even had a few teases of them having the hots for each other that it makes it believable that the tension just might spill over any moment now. I mean, we had a bit of momentum in S9 but that didn't get anywhere, now we have the whole thing with the cohabitation and if that cools down again -sorry for the blunt metaphor- the show starts to feel like an overeager lover who's way too obsessed with foreplay: there's just so much time you can do this before the other gets bored and checks out mentally to write next week's grocery list. Jeez.

The question is, is all this supposed to be some kind of momentum? I think it was Jonny who suggested a few pages ago that maybe it's all something to pass the time. The writers had a year to fix this but they chose not to. If coitus 2.0 doesn't occur in 10.11 then there's nothing stopping the writers from doing a time jump straight to Amy's birthday. Which would suck, because as fans, we've spent the past year thinking that something would happen at any moment. There's supposed to be an expectation that Sheldon won't be able to wait a year as he originally thought but all that anticipation will go to waste if they end up having sex on Amy's birthday just because it's that time of the year again.

At this rate, I'm not going to even bother looking forward to the next taping. What's the point?

Though, there's one thing to look forward to if Shamy don't coitus each other in 10.11: the Shamblr Armageddon.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Judith

[kimbee73]

30 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

In general they air just repeats during Holidays, I don't think they would air a brand new episode on December 29, ratings wise would be a bad choice.

With five Thursdays they could easily have an episode on the 22nd even with a week off on the 15th but I have wishful thinking and I don't want to have to wait from the 8th of December until the 5th of January to have a new episode if that is what they do.

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by kimbee73

[mirs1]

15 minutes ago, kimbee73 said:

With five Thursdays they could easily have an episode on the 22nd even with a week off on the 15th but I have wishful thinking and I don't want to have to wait from the 8th of December until the 5th of January to have a new episode if that is what they do.

 

For me the most likely outcome is 10.10 on December 1st (or 8th, but 10.10 has been advertised on December 1st to the press), 10.11 on December 15th, and then 10.12 on January 5th, after the Holidays.

[kimbee73]

Just now, mirs1 said:

For me the most likely outcome is 10.10 on December 1st (or 8th, but 10.10 has been advertised on December 1st to the press), 10.11 on December 15th, and then 10.12 on January 5th, after the Holidays.

That makes the most sense. I just hate those long hiatuses. But with only 24 episodes total they have to spread it all out.

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, Judith said:

The question is, is all this supposed to be some kind of momentum? I think it was Jonny who suggested a few pages ago that maybe it's all something to pass the time. The writers had a year to fix this but they chose not to. If coitus 2.0 doesn't occur in 10.11 then there's nothing stopping the writers from doing a time jump straight to Amy's birthday. Which would suck, because as fans, we've spent the past year thinking that something would happen at any moment. There's supposed to be an expectation that Sheldon won't be able to wait a year as he originally thought but all that anticipation will go to waste if they end up having sex on Amy's birthday just because it's that time of the year again.

At this rate, I'm not going to even bother looking forward to the next taping. What's the point?

Though, there's one thing to look forward to if Shamy don't coitus each other in 10.11: the Shamblr Armageddon.

I did say something about that recently, that maybe the whole sexual tension thing was a ruse (one of my weeks where I felt frustrated with the lack of developments, more on that below) and that the writers always planned to do the once a year on Amy's birthday again because they 'genuinely' think it would be a funny thing to do. I have zero proof that this is what is going to happen but the longer it drags out the more likely it obviously becomes.

The whole issue of coitus 2.0 is a divisive one, perhaps not externally on the forum that much these days as most of us Shamy's are on the same page in that we believe it should be more frequent, for enjoyment and not just for procreation but I find I tend to have a bit of an internal struggle/debate over the whole issue.

I get my hopes up each week thinking is this the week especially since they are displaying more urges and are now living together but then nothing materializes. Then another week I feel guilty that I am being overcritical and impatient especially when Shamy seem to be in such a great place right now and that any arrangement they have if it works for them then that is all that matters.

I would also be a liar if I said I wasn't concerned about the overall reaction if they wait again until her birthday and it is deemed by many to be just a gift again (I never saw it just as a gift, Sheldon clearly wanted to do it and it felt right but people had their own opinions on the motivation behind it). I can see the whole issue about 'desire' being brought up again and people like @camelliayao myself and others in the Shamy fanbase having to be on the defensive when it should be something celebrated. That's the REAL danger of sticking to this once a year target.

In a way a joke by the writers could cause a lot of friction in the fan base, but at the end of the day they don't really cater for us die hard's it's more the casual viewer who has no shipping bias or affinity. I have no doubt some would find it very funny if they only do it once a year, but being a Shamy shipper I just can't see how it could deep down be healthy for their relationship sticking to such an arrangement.

Apologies for the rant, this is pretty much why I am trying to not think about it as much these days as a topic. Sometimes it gets me excited but sometimes it really gets me down (probably because I really care for these characters and want the best for them) and I overthink it all.

I think I just want to see a happy conclusion to it now and it has been dragged out long enough.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Jonny

[kimbee73]

36 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I did say something about that recently, that maybe the whole sexual tension thing was a ruse (one of my weeks where I felt frustrated with the lack of developments, more on that below) and that the writers always planned to do the once a year on Amy's birthday again because they 'genuinely' think it would be a funny thing to do. I have zero proof that this is what is going to happen but the longer it drags out the more likely it obviously becomes.

The whole issue of coitus 2.0 is a divisive one, perhaps not externally on the forum that much these days as most of us Shamy's are on the same page in that we believe it should be more frequent, for enjoyment and not just for procreation but I find I tend to have a bit of an internal struggle/debate over the whole issue.

I get my hopes up each week thinking is this the week especially since they are displaying more urges and are now living together but then nothing materializes. Then another week I feel guilty that I am being overcritical and impatient especially when Shamy seem to be in such a great place right now and that any arrangement they have if it works for them then that is all that matters.

I would also be a liar if I said I wasn't concerned about the overall reaction if they wait again until her birthday and it is deemed by many to be just a gift again (I never saw it just as a gift, Sheldon clearly wanted to do it and it felt right but people had their own opinions on the motivation behind it). I can see the whole issue about 'desire' being brought up again and people like @camelliayao myself and others in the Shamy fanbase having to be on the defensive when it should be something celebrated. That's the REAL danger of sticking to this once a year target.

In a way a joke by the writers could cause a lot of friction in the fan base, but at the end of the day they don't really cater for us die hard's it's more the casual viewer who has no shipping bias or affinity. I have no doubt some would find it very funny if they only do it once a year, but being a Shamy shipper I just can't see how it could deep down be healthy for their relationship sticking to such an arrangement.

Apologies for the rant, this is pretty much why I am trying to not think about it as much these days as a topic. Sometimes it gets me excited but sometimes it really gets me down (probably because I really care for these characters and want the best for them) and I overthink it all.

I think I just want to see a happy conclusion to it now and it has been dragged out long enough.

I don't want it to happen again on her birthday just because of some line but it does seem to be heading in that direction. And we may not even see her birthday just because of the timing of these episodes. I certainly don't want the coitus to coincide with the birth of Bernadette's baby. Although maybe after he sees the baby he has second thoughts about wanting to procreate and realizes they aren't ready for a baby but still wants her.

I know if they use the gift idea again it would piss me off just because while it is a good gift it to me it would show he is not into her that way at all, which we know is not the case. So I want it to happen but it to me does not need to be crazy big storyline because we have been there done that with the storyline.

And while we crazy fans here at the forum want this to happen, I know for a fact that every week viewers think it is crazy they haven't done it again. My mom who watches loyally keeps asking me if they have done it again since she knows I am spoiled. She thinks it is ridiculous that it hasn't happened. She said now especially since they are living and sleeping in the same bed. She can't understand why it hasn't happened. So even non crazies are wondering when they will again.

[Judith]

46 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I did say something about that recently, that maybe the whole sexual tension thing was a ruse (one of my weeks where I felt frustrated with the lack of developments, more on that below) and that the writers always planned to do the once a year on Amy's birthday again because they 'genuinely' think it would be a funny thing to do. I have zero proof that this is what is going to happen but the longer it drags out the more likely it obviously becomes.

The whole issue of coitus 2.0 is a divisive one, perhaps not externally on the forum that much these days as most of us Shamy's are on the same page in that we believe it should be more frequent, for enjoyment and not just for procreation but I find I tend to have a bit of an internal struggle/debate over the whole issue.

I get my hopes up each week thinking is this the week especially since they are displaying more urges and are now living together but then nothing materializes. Then another week I feel guilty that I am being overcritical and impatient especially when Shamy seem to be in such a great place right now and that any arrangement they have if it works for them then that is all that matters.

I would also be a liar if I said I wasn't concerned about the overall reaction if they wait again until her birthday and it is deemed by many to be just a gift again (I never saw it just as a gift, Sheldon clearly wanted to do it and it felt right but people had their own opinions on the motivation behind it). I can see the whole issue about 'desire' being brought up again and people like @camelliayao myself and others in the Shamy fanbase having to be on the defensive when it should be something celebrated. That's the REAL danger of sticking to this once a year target.

In a way a joke by the writers could cause a lot of friction in the fan base, but at the end of the day they don't really cater for us die hard's it's more the casual viewer who has no shipping bias or affinity. I have no doubt some would find it very funny if they only do it once a year, but being a Shamy shipper I just can't see how it could deep down be healthy for their relationship sticking to such an arrangement.

Apologies for the rant, this is pretty much why I am trying to not think about it as much these days as a topic. Sometimes it gets me excited but sometimes it really gets me down (probably because I really care for these characters and want the best for them) and I overthink it all.

I think I just want to see a happy conclusion to it now and it has been dragged out long enough.

If they're going to have sex once a year then they might as well kiss once a year or hug once a year. If this ends up happening then it just means that the writers are going to take an emotional event and turn it into a joke. I hope I'm wrong because obviously these aren't the expectations that were built up in the fanbase.

Like...Sheldon's line in 9.11 makes you think he won't be able to make it. Then all these mentions, the 10.4 argument, Amy taking coitus off the table, 10.8...As a person watching the show (not even a fan), I thought this would lead somewhere. Before Amy's birthday. And yes, I know we don't know yet but it's all too suspicious.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Judith

[April]

44 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I think I just want to see a happy conclusion to it now and it has been dragged out long enough.

That sums up my worries for the upcoming episode(s) as well. I guess I just want the magic of last year repeated where I thought the whole story arc tied together so nicely. Come on, writers, you can do this again!!

[Soopysue]

Guys I truely believe it'll be fine - we have had amazing Shamy this season by the bucket load - the writers know Shamy are their cash cow so to speak, I trust them to get it so right. Shamy are in such an amazing place right now, they both seem so so happy - due to the writers getting them to this place - think back to last year when all we wanted was for them to get back together already !!!!!! 

I can't wait for more !!!......

[April]

19 minutes ago, kimbee73 said:

And while we crazy fans here at the forum want this to happen, I know for a fact that every week viewers think it is crazy they haven't done it again. My mom who watches loyally keeps asking me if they have done it again since she knows I am spoiled. She thinks it is ridiculous that it hasn't happened. She said now especially since they are living and sleeping in the same bed. She can't understand why it hasn't happened. So even non crazies are wondering when they will again.

Thanks for that! Sometimes being in this fan bubble it's nice to be reminded that it's not just us shippers imagining/wanting things. WE'RE NOT CRAZY!! YAY!! lol

But in all seriousness: The writers have been building up a story here and with that come certain expectations. It's all just a question of finally getting a pay-off now. Please don't fuck this up, writers!!

[spidergirl]

37 minutes ago, April said:

But in all seriousness: The writers have been building up a story here and with that come certain expectations. It's all just a question of finally getting a pay-off now. Please don't fuck this up, writers!!

I'd dare say, these are everyone's thoughts around here. And my hope lives in surprise factor. I mean, when Sheldon and Amy reunited, most of us would not have dared to dream that they would have coitus in next episode, right?

So as I dont and refuse to believe that shamy coitus would happen just in 2017, it might be happen in a situation that would surprise us like a bang, lol!

I promised to myself I should not overthinking about coitus, but man, it is an universal truth: I fail miserably about promising that , lol! I want these two even better they are now. Writers, you know what is the next move. Chop chop!

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by spidergirl

[serena_1995]

4 hours ago, Jonny said:

 

In a way a joke by the writers could cause a lot of friction in the fan base, but at the end of the day they don't really cater for us die hard's it's more the casual viewer who has no shipping bias or affinity. I have no doubt some would find it very funny if they only do it once a year, but being a Shamy shipper I just can't see how it could deep down be healthy for their relationship sticking to such an arrangement.

If Sheldon and Amy are fine with once an year arrangement, what gives us the right to decide that having sex , once an year is unhealthy ? 

I don't understand why it matters that they do it once a year or once a month or once a week or more ? Now, I don't and wouldn't want a once a year pact in my own RL relationship(neither would my SO), but frankly  , I dont think I or anyone else can judge how often, how much and how frequently another couple should have sex before they can be deemed 'normal' and 'healthy'. Every one is different. What works for  one couple, may not work for others. Especially a supremely odd fictional couple like Shamy.

 As of season 10, has Amy been shown as sexually frustrated ? Has Sheldon ? I don't think so(I could be wrong please correct me). They kiss ,  they hug and they hold hands. Amy gets turned on by watching Sheldon dance. Sheldon gets turned on by Amy's verbal description of "surprise".  They both get turned on by each other during a scientiffic argument too. But they also take coitus off the table without any worry. It shows they are both comfortable. They are on the same page going forward this season IMO. As long as writers don't make the same old jokes about Amy (or Sheldon ) being horny and the other one ignoring them(and so far they have not done that-again correct me if im wrong), it really doesn't matter to me when they have sex.

 Having said that, if the writers were really going  forward with the sexual tension angle, I agree they kinda dropped the ball after Brain Bowl. They should have followed 10.08 with coitus 2.0 , not with 2 episodes -A Sheldon centric filler ep(10.9) and a Shelnard ep (10.10) that could have literally been placed anywhere after the living experiment started. LOL . 

Edited November 21, 2016 by serena_1995

[spidergirl]

23 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

Having said that, if the writers were really going  forward with the sexual tension angle, I agree they kinda dropped the ball after Brain Bowl. They should have followed 10.08 with coitus 2.0 , not with 2 episodes -A Sheldon centric ep(10.9) and a Shelnard ep (10.10) that could have literally been placed anywhere after the living experiment started. LOL . 

And if shamy after all were having already coitus and we would only find out in an upcoming episode, as they might be cuddling and having pilow talk? 

 That would a huge bang, bigger that the real Big Bang in Universe, lol!  

Just kidding

IMO nobody hinted once in year was unhealthy. But from what Amy said about putting coitus off the table for a question of both get confortable sharing a place and personal space on bed and from what Sheldon said that Amy woke his sexual desire, I think they would have sex more than once in year. Surely each couple should talk about the sex frequency that please both and I have no doubts that they would talk about it as they were getting more confortable about sharing the most intimate things  about their relatinship.

That couple first is talk about anything, as they discuss theory. Then they get into practice as a good experiment always  should be done.

Edited November 21, 2016 by spidergirl

[Listgirl]

Random thoughts I have had around these issues recently: 

1) as it's not their first time we may end up 'hearing' about some sort of restart on their sex life in retrospect. As I have said before in the shipping lanes thread or may DT I want my TBBT stories to be so much more imaginative than plodding through a tick list and something I wouldn't necessarily guess. Generally this is what is delivered by the writers so I can envisage the subject of coitus  2.0 is resolved for us the viewers as say a cold open in 10.12 with Shamy post-coital in 4B in the New Year and the conversation clearly indicates they have been at it like rabbits for a little while. The story of what happened to get coitus back on the table emerges in dribs and drabs over the rest of the season. 

2) Engagement: as Shamy are such a quirky pair and have ignored presumably both sets of  parents and their opinions on the subject of sex, living together and possibly whether or not to be together I am starting to wonder if they will forego the traditional engagement, wedding set up to some degree. Again I said in the DT recently that Howardette seem to have the traditional life plan story, engagement, white wedding, live together, have a baby and Lenny and Shamy are moving a long on different pathways to reach their happy ever after. Of course this keeps thing fresh and interesting from a creative writing point of view and consequently is and should keep us guessing about how it is all going to play out. Despite the fun speculating we rarely guess the plots! Lol! Even this latest TR (thanks @skylex)  doesn't play out quite how we imagined, with Shelnard going off down a tangent with the apartment flag/genital rubbing gag. Btw @Jonny I agree what is it with rubbing genitals on stuff? And very little stuff actually being moved. 

3) this season's nostalgic notes are starting to feel like 'TBBT greatest hits with growth'. I can't help feeling we are in the final season or Season 11 will take a very different turn (which is possible if 'Sheldon' takes off). 

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

If Sheldon and Amy are fine with once an year arrangement, what gives us the right to decide that having sex , once an year is unhealthy ? 

I don't understand why it matters that they do it once a year or once a month or once a week or more ? Now, I don't and wouldn't want a once a year pact in my own RL relationship(neither would my SO), but frankly  , I dont think I or anyone else can judge how often, how much and how frequently another couple should have sex before they can be deemed 'normal' and 'healthy'. Every one is different. What works for  one couple, may not work for others. Especially a supremely odd fictional couple like Shamy.

 As of season 10, has Amy been shown as sexually frustrated ? Has Sheldon ? I don't think so(I could be wrong please correct me). They kiss ,  they hug and they hold hands. Amy gets turned on by watching Sheldon dance. Sheldon gets turned on by Amy's verbal description of "surprise".  They both get turned on by each other during a scientiffic argument too. But they also take coitus off the table without any worry. It shows they are both comfortable. They are on the same page going forward this season IMO. As long as writers don't make the same old jokes about Amy (or Sheldon ) being horny and the other one ignoring them(and so far they have not done that-again correct me if im wrong), it really doesn't matter to me when they have sex.

 Having said that, if the writers were really going  forward with the sexual tension angle, I agree they kinda dropped the ball after Brain Bowl. They should have followed 10.08 with coitus 2.0 , not with 2 episodes -A Sheldon centric ep(10.9) and a Shelnard ep (10.10) that could have literally been placed anywhere after the living experiment started. LOL . 

I did say in my post I am somewhat torn over the whole issue and from week to week my stance has changed, the whole feeling guilty about criticizing and impatient paragraph mentioned that I sometimes felt 'if they are happy with whatever arrangement they have that is all that matters at the end of the day.' I am happy to stick by the view that once a year could pose some problems if the sexual tension really is that high between them as we think it is. Keeping it bottled up can lead to relationship issues for sure.

I think whatever your stance is on the issue we need to see some kind of resolution going forward where they are both on the same page and in agreement whatever they decide.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Jonny

[serena_1995]

33 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I did say in my post I am somewhat torn over the whole issue and from week to week my stance has changed, the whole feeling guilty about criticizing and impatient paragraph mentioned that I sometimes felt 'if they are happy with whatever arrangement they have that is all that matters at the end of the day.' I am happy to stick by the view that once a year could pose some problems if the sexual tension really is that high between them as we think it is. Keeping it bottled up can lead to relationship issues for sure.

I think whatever your stance is on the issue we need to see some kind of resolution going forward where they are both on the same page and in agreement whatever they decide.

Haha, yes I totally agree, there needs to be some kind of resolution. My stance also changes all the time depending on your and others' opinions ! Recently i found some Lenny shippers make valid points about their frustrations.  The writers in general are not very good with follow ups IMO. They try something and leave it there.  Coming back to Shamy,  sometimes I feel that fans want coitus  to happen even more than the actual characters.  I think the writers are the ones guilty of spreading mixed signals here. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by serena_1995

[spidergirl]

9 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

Coming back to Shamy, sometimes I feel that fans want coitus  to happen even more than the actual characters.LOL. I think the writers are the ones guilty of spreading mixed signals here. 

True,lol! They are the only ones guilty, we only try to interpret signals.

If they didnt spread so good signals and then leave us waiting two,three episodes  for a resolution...

Edited November 21, 2016 by spidergirl