Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

[vonmar]

41 minutes ago, koops said:

ETA: although upon re-reading I would rather they had Amy say that you can have a satisfying and successful career even without a Nobel and that prizes are not the real aim in science than the usual "love life vs career" cliches. It's not Nobel or failure, come on. 

ETA2: Although I wouldn't mind it that were foreshadowing to a joint Cooper-Fowler major award later on in the show  

 

3 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

Yes that part about Amy saying  "you still have a love life/friends " made me go...ugh. Would have been better to say awards aren't the real aim of science, that Sheldon is still an intelligent person and maybe tell Sheldon that he has had some successes in his career too(which he has !)

I think we need to remember here that this is a TR...a posters best recollection of what was said as an outline of the scene.  As we've seen in the past, the edited actual dialogue is always much richer in tone and meaning.

[April]

 

53 minutes ago, koops said:

I personally didn't find the way they addressed that very satisfying in the sense that we never got to see how finding those things out affected Amy. When Meemaw said that, for example, it was cut immediately to Sheldon barging in and saving the day. When Sheldon wouldn't get back with her, Amy was obviously upset but we can't really dissociate how much of that turmoil was due to the rejection versus the realization of how much he hurt and her role in it. And they never talked about it again. Amy never found out he was going to propose to her when he saw her with Dave. I felt they explored Sheldon's side fine but I don't feel like they did as much with Amy.

Plus, there's the practical issue that they wrote in that ring two years ago and clearly stated he was thinking of proposing. And then almost forgot about it and even have Amy complain about not knowing how he feels about marriage like either she's forgotten he was planning to propose or she's wondering why he has a ring and hasn't popped the question yet. I find that the most believable reason at this stage why he has had a ring for years but hasn't proposed is that there are still some lingering feelings there of fear (as per Escape Hatch) that of course are totally irrational and unfounded but that he needs to finally throw out once and for all. Or at the very least that he feels the need to take things slow because of what happened. Again, though, I'm happy to pretend S9 never happened so I am not advocating for this to be brought up again, if they don't want to. And I won't be disappointed if they don't. But if they were to take that angle, I would be on board with it. 

Your earlier post sounded to me like "We/Amy didn't get enough about how hurt Sheldon was!" hence my disagreement.

But this sounds more like "We didn't get enough about how Amy feels about how hurt Sheldon was!" which I can follow a bit better, I guess. I'm not completely on board though cause it would feel like hitting Amy over the head with "look how sad Sheldon was!!" until we get the desired result or something. I found the Valentines episode a satisfying ending to the whole hurt topic so I don't need the show to bring that up again.

I think there are plenty of nuanced ways in which the show can deal with any of his insecurities - it's not like there's a shortage of them! Quite a while ago I've thrown around the idea that he's on this little self-improvement quest which would be a result of the breakup but with a more positive attitude. And he'll then propose when he feels he's proper husband material or whatever. It certainly would tie all those "Sheldon learns a lesson" plots neatly up with a bow.

Edited April 5, 2017 by April

[wowbagger]

plus, there are major awards that are NOT the Nobel. Major scientists who did not win the Nobel. Oppenheimer, I believe? Teller, for another?

this feels like one of the 'dumbed down' elements. Like the showrunners assume that their audience only knows about the Nobel (and I guess the MacArthur?) and so the sum and substance of scientific accomplishment is 'The Nobel'. Gods know the show is not a bastion of accuracy when it comes to tenure and the careers of researchers....

[April]

5 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

plus, there are major awards that are NOT the Nobel. Major scientists who did not win the Nobel. Oppenheimer, I believe? Teller, for another?

this feels like one of the 'dumbed down' elements. Like the showrunners assume that their audience only knows about the Nobel (and I guess the MacArthur?) and so the sum and substance of scientific accomplishment is 'The Nobel'. Gods know the show is not a bastion of accuracy when it comes to tenure and the careers of researchers....

It's particularly bizarre that Sheldon as a theoretical physicist is so hell bent on getting one when it's nearly impossible for that field to actually get one, hence why Stephen Hawking doesn't have one either. I mean, I get it's his ego and all that but they don't hand them out like candy...

[Capt. Hilts]

But it was funny watching Sheldon watching the award ceremony on a live web feed.  Reminded me of my pals and I watching the "Miss USA" pageant back in the day.

[mirs1]

1 minute ago, April said:

It's particularly bizarre that Sheldon as a theoretical physicist is so hell bent on getting one when it's nearly impossible for that field to actually get one, hence why Stephen Hawking doesn't have one either. I mean, I get it's his ego and all that but they don't hand them out like candy...

And he never mentions that most likely, even if he ever wins a Nobel prize, he will have to share it with the experimental physicists (the HORROR!!!) who have proven the theory  which is the reason of the award, LOL!

[vonmar]

10 minutes ago, April said:

It's particularly bizarre that Sheldon as a theoretical physicist is so hell bent on getting one when it's nearly impossible for that field to actually get one, hence why Stephen Hawking doesn't have one either. I mean, I get it's his ego and all that but they don't hand them out like candy...

From what I can gather, this is the crux of the S/A storyline.  His ego takes a beating (which, honestly, he deserves occasionally).  I don't think that casual viewers will do the math/research on Nobel Awards in physics, but he has been talking about that for so long that the casual viewer will connect with becoming frustrated with chasing a dream that is still out of reach. 

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

"physicist, lover, baker, there’s nothing I can’t do"

Interesting choice of skills he prattled off here....

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

Amy tries to suggest another type of challenge, he says that there’s no way they’re going to tickle fight.

Oh how I wish the word "again" appeared at the end of this sentence...lol

[serena_1995]

6 hours ago, wowbagger said:

plus, there are major awards that are NOT the Nobel. Major scientists who did not win the Nobel. Oppenheimer, I believe? Teller, for another?

this feels like one of the 'dumbed down' elements. Like the showrunners assume that their audience only knows about the Nobel (and I guess the MacArthur?) and so the sum and substance of scientific accomplishment is 'The Nobel'. Gods know the show is not a bastion of accuracy when it comes to tenure and the careers of researchers....

 

There are awards other than the Nobel prize of course and other forms of recognition too . It has been mentioned that Sheldon has had many papers published. Sheldon won the  Chancellor award in Pants Alternative. He was also praised in the Scientific American magazine. Sheldon also  won an award with Leonard about that Super fluid paper he wrote in the penultimate episode of season 8. Sheldon also discovered an asteroid with Raj.....i don't think his career is one huge giant failure.

I also think it needs to be pointed out that most importantly, Sheldon LOVES what he does. Which is more than what I can say for Penny.  I feel way more sorry for Penny since she is stuck in a job she kinda hates everyday and it obviously bothers her.But regardless, the latest taping sounds nice and scenes always play out more differently from a TR

Edited April 6, 2017 by serena_1995

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, April said:

 

 Quite a while ago I've thrown around the idea that he's on this little self-improvement quest which would be a result of the breakup but with a more positive attitude. And he'll then propose when he feels he's proper husband material or whatever. It certainly would tie all those "Sheldon learns a lesson" plots neatly up with a bow.

This to me looks like the best explanation. I can't think of any other that would make sense. There may be another that would make sense to Sheldon of course, but it beats me what it would be.

[snapepans]

8 hours ago, April said:

First half of S11: The big Shamy arc of how Sheldon finally gears up to pop the question with little hints all through the episodes culminating in his proposal in 11x11!!

(Nothing much will happen in the second half of S11 while the writers struggle to give the rest of the cast something to do.)

First half of S12: The big Shamy arc of how Sheldon and Amy prepare for their wedding that'll take place in 12x11!!

(Nothing much will happen in the second half of S12 while the writers struggle to tie up everything for the grand finale.)

The end.

lmao

I'm mostly kidding and hope that this isn't coming true. But looking at the past two seasons... there seems to be a pattern forming...?

OMG, I know you are kidding but I really think your speculation was spot on!!!

I sincerely hope that isn't coming true though!

 

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

From what I can gather, this is the crux of the S/A storyline.  His ego takes a beating (which, honestly, he deserves occasionally).  I don't think that casual viewers will do the math/research on Nobel Awards in physics, but he has been talking about that for so long that the casual viewer will connect with becoming frustrated with chasing a dream that is still out of reach. 

Interesting choice of skills he prattled off here....

Oh how I wish the word "again" appeared at the end of this sentence...lol

Based on 1019, Sheldon's line: Which, unlike my body, is an okay place to tickle.

So I think Amy indeed tickled Sheldon in the past, just he apparently didn't like it. 

Oh, and I myself totally understand him... 

Edited April 6, 2017 by snapepans
add something

[mirs1]

Happy episode day!!! Apparently, not a sting Shamy episode, but I hope we can find something to gush about, at least, we will finally see Shamy in their robe having breakfast together and the Country-bar mystery will be fully unveiled!!!

 

[koops]

11 hours ago, vonmar said:

 

I think we need to remember here that this is a TR...a posters best recollection of what was said as an outline of the scene.  As we've seen in the past, the edited actual dialogue is always much richer in tone and meaning.

Very true. I'm just commenting on the info we got so far, also because Amy made the same point in Geology Elevation and it's a bit eye-roll inducing. I mean, I get the sentiment. Sheldon has a full and happy life and while winning a Nobel will be icing on the cake, if he doesn't, his life will be full and happy regardless and that's great. The Nobel isn't his sole reason for existence. But sometimes you can't just swap satisfaction in a career with satisfaction in one personal's life, because the two are very different things and being miserable in a career can be just as detrimental to one's well being as being miserable in one's personal life, even if the personal life is great. But the point with Sheldon is that, like others have said, he does love what he does and he's good at it, and it would be nice to have someone point out to him that his obsession with the Nobel is only about his ego because he is already extremely lucky to be doing great work in a field he loves.

In a sense, and this kind of links to what I'm going to say below, Sheldon's obsession with the Nobel kind of reminds me of Amy's S6-7 obsession with "traditional romance". They focus so much on these idealized things that are seen to be as the be-all-and-end-all, when, in reality, they already have so much to be grateful and happy about, if only they stopped to look at what's good for them instead of what the world deems a sign of a successful scientist or a perfect romance.

On another note, I said years ago that I would love it if Sheldon did get to win a Nobel eventually but in the field of "yucky squishy things" because of a project with Amy. That would be him getting everything he ever wanted at the same time as being served a slice of humble pie for dissing any field that isn't theoretical physics. We now have piece #1 of that puzzle... who knows where we might be in 2-3 years  

11 hours ago, April said:

 

Your earlier post sounded to me like "We/Amy didn't get enough about how hurt Sheldon was!" hence my disagreement.

But this sounds more like "We didn't get enough about how Amy feels about how hurt Sheldon was!" which I can follow a bit better, I guess. I'm not completely on board though cause it would feel like hitting Amy over the head with "look how sad Sheldon was!!" until we get the desired result or something. I found the Valentines episode a satisfying ending to the whole hurt topic so I don't need the show to bring that up again.

I think there are plenty of nuanced ways in which the show can deal with any of his insecurities - it's not like there's a shortage of them! Quite a while ago I've thrown around the idea that he's on this little self-improvement quest which would be a result of the breakup but with a more positive attitude. And he'll then propose when he feels he's proper husband material or whatever. It certainly would tie all those "Sheldon learns a lesson" plots neatly up with a bow.

Well, here we go back to my usual pet-peeve with the show, which I know many might not agree with.

I've said this plenty, but I am not a fan of the idea that Sheldon needs to always learn a lesson and go on self-improvement quests to become boyfriend or husband material, while Amy is already perfect as she is and just has to sit and wait for Sheldon to grow up. Not that I think Sheldon was perfect and never needed to learn anything, but the show rarely, if ever, has implied that Amy is anything but a saint or perfect even when some of the behavior she displayed in the past could be the subject of some nuanced criticism, particularly about her ideas of romance and how Sheldon measures up to it.

Why is it ok to constantly hit Sheldon over the head with "look how sad Amy is!" but not to hit Amy over the head with "look how sad Sheldon is!"? Because that's been the format of the show for a long time and it's an issue not only with Amy, but with the rest of the characters too. I feel like Sheldon's POV or feelings or opinions when it comes to interpersonal relationships are rarely considered valid when it comes to how the writers handle them, and the vast majority of the time it's about how Sheldon is ridiculous and everyone else is correct (even when it came to Leonard cheating - Sheldon was the only one who apologized to Penny for Leonard's behavior and disapproved of it and what he gets in return is a rant about how bad of a boyfriend he was, while everyone huddles around poor Leonard who doesn't deserve to be treated badly by Penny).

So, to me, if they wanted to incorporate a reason for the delay in the proposal despite the presence of a ring, it might be a good opportunity to air some of that stuff out more explicitly and balance the scales a little. Amy did want him back, no conditions asked, but the show never explored what exactly was her thought process in that and what realizations she got to in order to decide that a life with Sheldon in it, no matter what, is better than a life without him or with someone else. Amy's POV when it comes to the really interesting and compelling stuff that pushes her to question herself and grow from it is always swept under the rug, while her POV when it comes to her being upset and hurt because Sheldon's being a jerk is reiterated over and over and over. I guess I don't feel that we as the audience have really been hit over the head with "Sheldon sad!" anywhere near as much as we have with "Amy sad!", so I don't think it would be overkill to do it once more. 

Not that I *want* any more "Sheldon sad!" or "Amy sad!" plots or that I think they're particularly necessary at this stage in their relationship. They are balanced, communicate well, obviously love each other very much and are protective of each other. In that sense, I agree that it's belabouring the point because I would dare anyone watching S10 to say that these two aren't 100% satisfied in their relationship. Amy has stated out loud that she loves him exactly the way he is, so I don't *need* further confirmation about that. But if there were to be further confirmation, it's not a bad thing. Just like it's not a bad thing to hear them say ILY again after they said it once. And if they had to address the delay in proposing, I would personally much rather it'd be about whatever insecurities Sheldon might have felt after the breakup than about Sheldon waltzing in announcing he is now husband material after working so hard on himself and that's what he was waiting for; to be worthy. Like Amy's Thor hammer or something. Or, at least a combination of both would be more satisfying than just the latter. I don't mind Sheldon working on himself, at all, but I would like there to a bit of balance.

[spidergirl]

Happy new episode day!!

This one could have been named "The mysterious Texas recall", lol! I am very curious about  how this episode will be played out on screen. The Country bar scene is a mystery , hope at least it will be worth of my expectations as it could be something  very funny.

Hopefully it will have something shamy great to gush about. Love so much shamy having breakfast together in their robes. Keep bringing on shamy domestic bliss and I am a happy shipper!

Btw, looking foward to seeing much Amy playing the autoharp!

 

 

[Soopysue]

Happy new episode day !!
Looking forward to catching it up in the morning ( Scotland time !) .
Can't believe we only have 2 tapings left in season 10 - this season has just been too amazing for words !! Everything from living together - working together #forscience!! It's been fabulous, we've had kissing, casual touching , domestic bliss and generally been team Shamy against the world, I love it !!!
Now the icing on the cake for me would be to wrap up the ring and have them engaged before season end...that would be perfection in my book.
I also think it would allow the show to give some focus to Lenny and Penny's job worries etc as a big arc season 11 start - I think that would go down well - leaving Shamy /Howardette etc happily as B plots for the first few episodes back
I loved we had a stress free summer last year and wish the same again for this year !



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[April]

40 minutes ago, koops said:

Not that I *want* any more "Sheldon sad!" or "Amy sad!" plots or that I think they're particularly necessary at this stage in their relationship. They are balanced, communicate well, obviously love each other very much and are protective of each other. In that sense, I agree that it's belabouring the point because I would dare anyone watching S10 to say that these two aren't 100% satisfied in their relationship. Amy has stated out loud that she loves him exactly the way he is, so I don't *need* further confirmation about that. But if there were to be further confirmation, it's not a bad thing. Just like it's not a bad thing to hear them say ILY again after they said it once. And if they had to address the delay in proposing, I would personally much rather it'd be about whatever insecurities Sheldon might have felt after the breakup than about Sheldon waltzing in announcing he is now husband material after working so hard on himself and that's what he was waiting for; to be worthy. Like Amy's Thor hammer or something. Or, at least a combination of both would be more satisfying than just the latter. I don't mind Sheldon working on himself, at all, but I would like there to a bit of balance.

(Just quoting the last part because length...)

I don't disagree with much of what you said per se I just see the characters' actions/motivations being linked a bit differently.

For once, I do think that we as the audience have been hit over the head enough with "Amy sad!" plots in the past, sometimes in a genuine sympathetic way, sometimes with meaner undertones for the sake of humour. I don't necessarily think though that Sheldon has gotten that same quantity of "Amy sad!" cause for such a long time he was simply wilfully or accidentally (depending on your plot of the week) ignorant about that. Sure, he sometimes realised he fucked up but he's rarely if ever acknowledged when his behaviour was hurting her. To this day he hasn't apologised for his stupid acts of retaliation during the breakup and stuff like that all the while Amy tried to be sympathetic whenever he was pestering her. So I'm having a hard time pinning this specific blame on her here.

And overall I have a hard time thinking of moments where Amy hurt Sheldon to the point where I feel she needs to reflect about that more or whatever. I don't think we've gotten that kind of plot outside of the breakup?? That isn't to say that I wouldn't want more plots about Amy fucking up and having to fix things for a change. I don't think she is a flawless saint who can do no wrong and I would love to see more varied plots around that idea that aren't about her lying for some stupid reason (cause that seems to be one of her few consistent flaws... Oh Amy, girl)

I also do think that while we didn't get as many "Sheldon sad!" stories they have been mostly treated with a higher level of respect for the character. Yes, most of the time his general shenanigans are presented as ridiculous but plenty of other times the show allows these genuinely emotional scenes and I do think the whole breakup arc was part of that. When he has his melt down in 9x07 it is presented as a serious moment and a turning point in the whole thing. Together with the episodes later I really think the "Sheldon sad!" aspect of the breakup has been done justice here.

With regards to "Sheldon's improvement quest" I do agree that I wouldn't want him to be some sort of trophy for Amy or whatever. BUT. We know that under Sheldon's huge ego lies an equally big insecurity about Amy maybe thinking less of him, despite Amy's repeated reassurance of the contrary. The breakup certainly didn't help with that when he became even more painfully aware of his shortcomings. But here's what I meant with that "positive spin" comment earlier: Sheldon took that experience and turned it into a drive to do better. It's undeniable that we've gotten a ton of "Sheldon learns a lesson" stories by now but the difference to past stories is, IMHO, that it's now coming from him. That he's the one pushing forward and embracing that change instead of others having to drag him there kicking and screaming. So you see, for me it's all connected. Sheldon deciding he's husband material doesn't mean he's Mjölnir, it means he's grown to a point where he's not only figured out what the wants in life but also not being bogged down by his insecurities anymore - and that is what would make this scenario a very satisfying development for me.

[Jedichic98]

Remember how Sheldon had to track down Amy when she was upset Penny and Bernadette for going dress shopping without her? Or how it seemed she was really keeping her feelings about her breakup with Sheldon and what she was going through to herself? and yet she always seems ready to offer comfort for her friends (letting Raj hijack their valentine's day FWF for example). "It's easier to help than be helped" sort of thing. 

I think a good plot for Amy's growth is one that brings this to attention. She tends to be the one to keep a strong resolve when Sheldon is having issues, and always having to be the strong one makes it harder to allow yourself to admit vulnerability. Have Sheldon be the calm one, let him reassure her that it's okay for her to not be okay. 

IDK, I think there's a story there. 

[Capt. Hilts]

Interesting.

[serena_1995]

3 hours ago, koops said:

 

Well, here we go back to my usual pet-peeve with the show, which I know many might not agree with.

I've said this plenty, but I am not a fan of the idea that Sheldon needs to always learn a lesson and go on self-improvement quests to become boyfriend or husband material, while Amy is already perfect as she is and just has to sit and wait for Sheldon to grow up. 

Why is it ok to constantly hit Sheldon over the head with "look how sad Amy is!" but not to hit Amy over the head with "look how sad Sheldon is!"? Because that's been the format of the show for a long time and it's an issue not only with Amy, but with the rest of the characters too. 

...Sheldon waltzing in announcing he is now husband material after working so hard on himself and that's what he was waiting for; to be worthy. Like Amy's Thor hammer or something. Or, at least a combination of both would be more satisfying than just the latter. I don't mind Sheldon working on himself, at all, but I would like there to a bit of balance.

The other characters ' flaws and mistakes aren't subjected to nearly as much critical analysis as Sheldon.  It's not even close imo.

 

2 hours ago, April said:

 

 That he's the one pushing forward and embracing that change instead of others having to drag him there kicking and screaming. So you see, for me it's all connected. Sheldon deciding he's husband material doesn't mean he's Mjölnir, it means he's grown to a point where he's not only figured out what the wants in life but also not being bogged down by his insecurities anymore - and that is what would make this scenario a very satisfying development for me.

I think I've had my fill of Sheldon self improvement  (whether it is self motivated or  motivated by others) and how he wants/needs to be "worthy" of Amy. . I wouldn't mind it, but im kinda indifferent to it now.

if they wanna make things different,I would like to see Amy going on a self improvement project and prepare to be  "wife material" for Sheldon too .

Edited April 6, 2017 by serena_1995

[Jonny]

It's been said many times before but I think we would all enjoy more storylines with the roles reversed. Amy being the one who has to be sought out and comforted, Amy being the one who needs help, Amy being the one who has to change or move on an issue instead of Sheldon. Overall more stories told more from her perspective with Sheldon having to be the one to react to them.

I have no expectations however that this will happen, the roles and the hierarchy of the actors on the show are well established now. But I love watching this relationship unfold so much that I will take what we have even if it's clearly more Sheldon centric compared to Amy in how the stories develop and play out.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Jonny

[April]

20 minutes ago, Jedichic98 said:

Remember how Sheldon had to track down Amy when she was upset Penny and Bernadette for going dress shopping without her? Or how it seemed she was really keeping her feelings about her breakup with Sheldon and what she was going through to herself? and yet she always seems ready to offer comfort for her friends (letting Raj hijack their valentine's day FWF for example). "It's easier to help than be helped" sort of thing. 

I think a good plot for Amy's growth is one that brings this to attention. She tends to be the one to keep a strong resolve when Sheldon is having issues, and always having to be the strong one makes it harder to allow yourself to admit vulnerability. Have Sheldon be the calm one, let him reassure her that it's okay for her to not be okay. 

IDK, I think there's a story there. 

Yes, please, I would love that so much!!

The issue is that Amy is performing what's called "emotional labour" - micromanaging and taking care of things in order to make things easier for everyone around you. (I can easily believe that she has picked that up as a result of her messed up upbringing and otherwise being socialised mostly by Penny and Bernadette late in life.) We've seen that in the show a lot of times when Amy is taking care of whatever woe Sheldon has in the plot of the week and we've even seen the show call her out on it in episodes like 10x12 when Sheldon rejected being "managed" by her. That "managing" is what Amy has been doing for years and it's exhausting. It undoubtedly contributed to her needing a time out in 8x24. Obviously, supporting and taking care of your partner is the right thing to do in a relationship but when it's too one-sided it's not healthy.

Now, with Sheldon becoming more aware of these things and being willing to work on himself it has become easier. So I think it would be the perfect time for a story where Amy needs his support, not because he did something wrong but for some other external issue. Like maybe there's something coming up that causes her to go into her trademark micromanaging mode causing her a lot of stress and Sheldon needs to snap her out of it somehow.  It would show Sheldon as the equal and loving partner he can be while also addressing one of Amy's issues and maybe she can learn a lesson from that for a change!? Pretty please??

[April]

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

The other characters ' flaws and mistakes aren't subjected to nearly as much critical analysis as Sheldon.  It's not even close imo.

Yeah, I would love to get that same kind of treatment for other characters as well - even if it's only the occasional episode where we dive a little deeper into the mind of literally any other of the main cast it would be a welcomed change!

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

I think I've had my fill of Sheldon self improvement  (whether it is self motivated or  motivated by others) and how he wants/needs to be "worthy" of Amy. . I wouldn't mind it, but im kinda indifferent to it now.

Which is part of the reason why I would love this to be tied up with the engagement - cause that would be the perfect opportunity to finally dial back these kinds of stories. Frankly, even I get tired of that and I LOVE those kinds of stories. So yeah...

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

if they wanna make things different,I would like to see Amy going on a self improvement project and prepare to be  "wife material" for Sheldon too .

I would disagree with that one a bit but mostly because I'd like to pick a nit with the wording. Amy working to become "wife material" has been what she's been doing for ages, like all the little ways in which she tries to make Sheldon happy or make things perfect for him and all that. (See my point about "emotional labour" above.) And evidently the expectations that came with that put a strain on their relationship in the past. So what I would want Amy to do is relax a little - that might help their relationship more than when she's in "everything needs to be perfect for Sheldon" mode. Balance is key.

[serena_1995]

34 minutes ago, April said:

Yeah, I would love to get that same kind of treatment for other characters as well - even if it's only the occasional episode where we dive a little deeper into the mind of literally any other of the main cast it would be a welcomed change!

Which is part of the reason why I would love this to be tied up with the engagement - cause that would be the perfect opportunity to finally dial back these kinds of stories. Frankly, even I get tired of that and I LOVE those kinds of stories. So yeah...

I would disagree with that one a bit but mostly because I'd like to pick a nit with the wording. Amy working to become "wife material" has been what she's been doing for ages, like all the little ways in which she tries to make Sheldon happy or make things perfect for him and all that. (See my point about "emotional labour" above.) And evidently the expectations that came with that put a strain on their relationship in the past. So what I would want Amy to do is relax a little - that might help their relationship more than when she's in "everything needs to be perfect for Sheldon" mode. Balance is key.

 

So you are saying Amy is basically perfect and her only fault is being too good and there is no room for improvement for her ? Although i agree, the way , the story has played out up to now , it does make it seem like Amy is a saint and Sheldon is a nightmare. But i will give a little credit to Sheldon too ,  because Sheldon has never actually denied Amy anything - it took him a long time,  but he still always came around to her wishes-date nights, kissing,  coitus, gifts  and he changed for her, even though he himself didnt ask Amy to change and accepted her as she was in season 4 and he still accepts her in season 10. Im overall satisfied with his growth,  and I just think it is a bit played out

 Btw ...im actually not advocating any drama, they are basically married anyway . They are in a great place . So I'm not really looking to start any arguments!

Edited April 6, 2017 by serena_1995

[April]

6 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

So you are saying Amy is basically perfect and her only fault is being too good and there is no room for improvement for her ? Although i agree, the way , the story has played out up to now , it does make it seem like Amy is a saint and Sheldon is a nightmare. But i will give a little credit to Sheldon too ,  because Sheldon has never actually denied Amy anything - it took him a long time,  but he still always came around to her wishes-date nights, kissing,  coitus, gifts  and he changed for her, even though he himself didnt ask Amy to change and accepted her as she was in season 4 and he still accepts her in season 10. Im overall satisfied with his growth,  and I just think it is a bit played out

 Btw ...im actually not advocating any drama, they are basically married anyway . They are in a great place . So I'm not really looking to start any arguments!

That is literally not what I'm saying at all. As I've said I was merely nitpicking about your wording of "wife material" because that has certain connotations about what a "good wife" is - namely all the stuff that Amy is already doing. But that doesn't make her a flawless character at all. Amy thinking her "managing" is the right thing to do all the time is, imho, one of her biggest flaws. I do think she needs to learn to trust Sheldon more to be a supportive partner to her (and I think he can do it if only the writers would let him as he has done that occasionally in the past). That could be a great storyline and make her a better partner for Sheldon in return.

[wowbagger]

I would agree that the show takes the default position that Amy doesn't need to change. Not because the show thinks Amy is a paragon, but because it isn't as interested in her as it is in Sheldon. And because the show is more interested in Sheldon, he gets the lion's share of 'learning and growing' arcs.* It's frustrating for anyone who would quite like to see someone else get stories, but what will you.

* and also because I do think that the writers sometimes have a disappointingly hackneyed and pedestrian idea of what 'adulthood' and 'growth' look like, and so a perfectly valid life choice has to be explained or scolded away. Or the writers cheat by conflating said valid life choice with a randomly nasty method of expressing it.

[April]

22 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

I would agree that the show takes the default position that Amy doesn't need to change. Not because the show thinks Amy is a paragon, but because it isn't as interested in her as it is in Sheldon. And because the show is more interested in Sheldon, he gets the lion's share of 'learning and growing' arcs.* It's frustrating for anyone who would quite like to see someone else get stories, but what will you.

* and also because I do think that the writers sometimes have a disappointingly hackneyed and pedestrian idea of what 'adulthood' and 'growth' look like, and so a perfectly valid life choice has to be explained or scolded away. Or the writers cheat by conflating said valid life choice with a randomly nasty method of expressing it.

Maybe we can start a fan letter writing campaign or something... lol