Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

[Jonny]

Comes down to each individual. Ramona clearly thinks Sheldon is fair game even after she learns more about Amy (sees her on Skype as well) in this episode and still makes her intentions known when Sheldon confronts her about it and he tells her he really isn't available and his heart is only for Amy. Ramona is the issue here, she doesn't care about the boundaries. If Sheldon was married I am not sure it would stop her intentions.

I personally think anyone in a relationship even if it's still only a boyfriend/girlfriend level is off limits. I have zero tolerance whatsoever for homewreckers or anyone wanting/willing to try and breakup another relationship. It's certainly something I would never do or condone being done.

I have such a severe dislike for that type of behaviour and such a dim view of it I am actually not looking forward to large parts of this episode that much. I don't get my kicks, laughs and jollies from seeing that, not even in a comedy.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny
Spelling

[mirs1]

2 hours ago, April said:

I'm not sure what makes you think not being married means anyone in a committed relationship is fair game. Not to mention that there are a lot of assumptions about what Ramona may or may not know that we simply don't have any information about.

Rule of thumb though is: if someone is in a committed relationship (and living together is a clear sign here) they're usually not interested in dating other people. (Sure, cheating happens but I would seriously question the commitment here.) A relationship is not less serious just because the couple isn't married, yet.

And yes, maybe there needs to be a new term for this kind of serious relationship cause "girlfriend / boyfriend" sounds too casual. Jim is struggling with that in his private life, too, whenever there's mention of Todd cause "boyfriend" sounds a bit silly after all those years and "partner" sounds too much like business, and since they're not officially married "husband" also isn't a good solution even though it's probably the closest match in terms of their commitment and living situation.

So no, you cannot make these kinds of assumptions these days where people don't get married right away anymore.

I agree, English language is way too rigid when it comes to describe "modern" relationships, it hasn't evolved quickly enough to catch up with society. If you think about it, the only relationship in the show which reflects the boyfriend-girfriend/fiancé-fiencee/husband-wife paradigm is Howardette, since they were together for a relatively short period of time, then got engaged and married without officially living together before their wedding. I wouldn't have used the term boyfriend-girlfriend for Lenny after they got back together in S. 5 and certainly it doesn't fit Shamy, especially since they are living together. I would use the term "mate" for them, mostly because Sheldon used it himself and because it has a scientific background that suits Shamy very well and it's kind of romantic, in the "Shamy"  way.

In any case, I completely agree with you. Two persons which are in a relationship unofficially for 7 years, officially for 5 (break up apart) and that live together aren't fair game, no matter how you call them.

Edited May 8, 2017 by mirs1

[Jonny]

2 hours ago, mirs1 said:

 

In any case, I completely agree with you. Two persons which are in a relationship unofficially for 7 years, officially for 5 (break up apart) and that live together aren't fair game, no matter how you call them.

I think the vast majority would agree and Sheldon clearly thinks that he is already taken/off limits in the discussion with Penny when she tries to explain that some don't respect those boundaries and Sheldon himself stresses to Ramona he has a girlfriend.

It's also why any 'cheater' rhetoric is absolute bollocks in this case.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny

[April]

2 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I think the vast majority would agree and Sheldon clearly thinks that he is already taken/off limits in the discussion with Penny when she tries to explain that some don't respect those boundaries and Sheldon himself stresses to Ramona he has a girlfriend.

It's also why any 'cheater' rhetoric is absolute bollocks in this case.

Yes, clearly Ramona is in the wrong here.

And like you I can't understand that kind of homewrecker mentality. Like at most I could understand if you're only interested for a one-night stand or quick affair where the fallout wouldn't be much of an issue for you cause you'll be on your merry way soon anyway. But to look for a relationship that way? I just couldn't base a relationship on the premise of intentionally getting together with a cheater. I'd probably always be worried about the relationship ending the way it began: with the guy cheating because someone better came along. ugh.

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, April said:

Yes, clearly Ramona is in the wrong here.

And like you I can't understand that kind of homewrecker mentality. Like at most I could understand if you're only interested for a one-night stand or quick affair where the fallout wouldn't be much of an issue for you cause you'll be on your merry way soon anyway. But to look for a relationship that way? I just couldn't base a relationship on the premise of intentionally getting together with a cheater. I'd probably always be worried about the relationship ending the way it began: with the guy cheating because someone better came along. ugh.

I've never known any relationships to start off that way but I guess there must be plenty out there in the world. And yeah I think there must be an inherent fear that if we got together this way then maybe it could end in a similar fashion. 

I've known people who were both in relationships and clearly wanted to be with each other but did not act on it until they broke up with their partners and some time had passed.

Skype scenes, the gang rallying around Shamy and of course Sheldon on bended-knee especially after 10.23 which showed how so ready he is for this moment I am going to love, but the Ramona factor I won't like seeing for the reasons I stated. But again this Ramona thing is still so far fetched to me, waiting 8 years to pounce just when Amy was away just lol. She could have turned up when they were broken up in Season 9 (though maybe she was at CERN then?)

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny

[wowbagger]

i am a little uncomfortable with the term 'fair game'. Sheldon and Amy have ultimate responsibility for their own relationship. But Ramona's behaviour at the end of the episode is basically assault, so i guess the argument is sort of moot. Whether or not Sheldon is in a relationship, his behaviour did not indicate that he would find any sexual overture welcome. In fact the opposite. For that reason, if for no other, Ramona is culpable.

[spidergirl]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

I've never known any relationships to start off that way but I guess there must be plenty out there in the world. And yeah I think there must be an inherent fear that if we got together this way then maybe it could end in a similar fashion. 

I've known people who were both in relationships and clearly wanted to be with each other but did not act on it until they broke up with their partners and some time had passed.

Skype scenes, the gang rallying around Shamy and of course Sheldon on bended-knee especially after 10.23 which showed how so ready he is for this moment I am going to love, but the Ramona factor I won't like seeing for the reasons I stated. But again this Ramona thing is still so far fetched to me, waiting 8 years to pounce just when Amy was away just lol. She could have turned up when they were broken up in Season 9 (though maybe she was at CERN then?)

Agree. And although I understand the writers as they wanted to shake things a bit to shamy with the Ramona appearance in season finale before the real proposal happened, imo it would not have any impact on Sheldon . Because it is not because  Sheldon now is truly 100 % physically and emotionally bonded to Amy and sex is something they have as an expression of their love or as an emotional need that he would be interested in someone else like Ramona , who  would be intersted on him.  

Edited May 8, 2017 by spidergirl
missing word and grammar

[Capt. Hilts]

9 hours ago, vonmar said:

No, Sheldon and Amy are in a relationship. They are living together and I'm sure it's all over Amy's Facebook page.  Maybe Sheldon's also.

It's just not done, as our parents used to say.

There are so many interesting posts here.

I wonder how different our [I certainly include myself] opinions would be, if at all, if if the sexes of the two here were reversed.  A guy hitting on a woman whose Significant Other is out of town for a prolonged spell?

And, yeah, the English language is great for many things.  It's the language of international aviation and one of the official languages of global oil trade. But there's a reason it isn't the International Language of Love.  The terminology of 50 years ago, as expressed in English/Scottish/Irish/ UnitedStatesian/Canadian/Aussie/ and Kiwi no longer works.  

Just as important, the risk of pregnancy is a lot lower for folks engaging in acts of personal assignation and the economics of sexual & matrimonial relationships has changed just as dramatically.  A woman in a good job, with health insurance, etc. has far lower economic incentives to get married than back in the day.  For many women who have this economic security, marriage is undertaken specifically for the purchase of property or to have children.  Until very, very recently, states [yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Virginia!] had a world of obstacles to prevent people who are not married to buy residential property.  

So - back to my main point - in an academic environment such as that in which the TBBT cast all exist, not being married does not signify a lack of commitment, as it might in circumstances where people of varying economic status and security mix.  This imbalance of economic status makes it all the more remarkable that it took Penny and Leonard so long to get married - but kudos to the writers for making Penny economically self-sustaining before getting married, to discourage the impression marriage was for economic security on her side.  Before then, it was Ann Marie's struggling acting career vs. Donald Hollinger's economic security.  In the 60s a lot more people didn't understand why she didn't jump at the chance to marry him.  That's progress that fewer people said that about Penny.

If two academics, especially if one of them is Sheldon Cooper, are living together, that's a Big Deal, regardless of marital status. And Ramona knows that. 

[Kathy2611]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

I've never known any relationships to start off that way but I guess there must be plenty out there in the world. And yeah I think there must be an inherent fear that if we got together this way then maybe it could end in a similar fashion. 

I've known people who were both in relationships and clearly wanted to be with each other but did not act on it until they broke up with their partners and some time had passed.

Skype scenes, the gang rallying around Shamy and of course Sheldon on bended-knee especially after 10.23 which showed how so ready he is for this moment I am going to love, but the Ramona factor I won't like seeing for the reasons I stated. But again this Ramona thing is still so far fetched to me, waiting 8 years to pounce just when Amy was away just lol. She could have turned up when they were broken up in Season 9 (though maybe she was at CERN then?)

When we first saw her, I got the impression she DID have a crush on Sheldon but at that time, she was more interested in helping him with whatever it was he was working on (can't remember what it was and too lazy to look it up) and sharing credit with him on it.

I also get the impression that she just arrived at Cal Tech.  Kind of similar to what Amy's doing in Princeton.  A summer internship or whatever.  Off screen I can imagine her running into him in the halls or whatever and she finds even after all this time, she's interested in pursuing a relationship regardless of him having a girlfriend.  It's mentioned that she keeps asking how long Amy will be away for.  That indicates to me she's trying to gage how much time she has to turn his head in her direction and away from Amy.  The rest we know about. 

So really, not all that far fetched at all.

[Jonny]

37 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

It's just not done, as our parents used to say.

There are so many interesting posts here.

I wonder how different our [I certainly include myself] opinions would be, if at all, if if the sexes of the two here were reversed.  A guy hitting on a woman whose Significant Other is out of town for a prolonged spell?

I can only speak for myself but there is no difference in my eyes so you won't see me sticking up for my fellow man. If a man pursues a woman already in a relationship or a woman pursues a man already in a relationship it's just wrong on a moral level to me. Maybe that mindset is more from a different era long past.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny

[Capt. Hilts]

Just now, Jonny said:

I can only speak for myself but there is no difference in my eyes so you won't see me sticking up for my fellow man. If a man pursues a woman already in a relationship or a woman pursues a man already in a relationship it's just wrong on a moral level to me. Maybe that mindset is from a different era long past.

I agree, but pre-reflectively, a lot of people do see a difference.

[Soopysue]

Comes down to each individual. Ramona clearly thinks Sheldon is fair game even after she learns more about Amy (sees her on Skype as well) in this episode and still makes her intentions known when Sheldon confronts her about it and he tells her he really isn't available and his heart is only for Amy. Ramona is the issue here, she doesn't care about the boundaries. If Sheldon was married I am not sure it would stop her intentions.
I personally think anyone in a relationship even if it's still only a boyfriend/girlfriend level is off limits. I have zero tolerance whatsoever for homewreckers or anyone wanting/willing to try and breakup another relationship. It's certainly something I would never do or condone being done.
I have such a severe dislike for that type of behaviour and such a dim view of it I am actually not looking forward to large parts of this episode that much. I don't get my kicks, laughs and jollies from seeing that, not even in a comedy.

Agree so much with everything you've said ! Also what@april &@mirs1 have said too


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[April]

47 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

It's just not done, as our parents used to say.

There are so many interesting posts here.

I wonder how different our [I certainly include myself] opinions would be, if at all, if if the sexes of the two here were reversed.  A guy hitting on a woman whose Significant Other is out of town for a prolonged spell?

I'm not entirely sure what kind of difference you're trying to allude to here, except maybe that a guy pursuing a woman in a relationship and forcing himself on her would look even worse? Maybe?

The thing is, no matter what gender I would expect a baseline of respect for any serious relationship (again, living together being a good indicator here, the other person clearly being enamoured with their partner being another) and going against that in some faint hope to change the mind of the person you're pursuing is just unacceptable behaviour to me. Especially if you're claiming to be a friend that is just absolutely disrespectful to me and if some of my male friends would have acted like Ramona does in this episode I'm not sure I would be able to trust them again. (And yes, I have had plenty of male friends over the years I was hanging out with without my then-boyfriend/now-husband and as I've been informed even a few had a crush on me - but no one ever acted on it or tried to lure me away from my relationship.)

[Capt. Hilts]

2 minutes ago, April said:

I'm not entirely sure what kind of difference you're trying to allude to here, except maybe that a guy pursuing a woman in a relationship and forcing himself on her would look even worse? Maybe?

Yeah.

[nusspot]

Maybe it's not that important to the discussion, but I remember reading (from a friend who attended the taping) that Ramona is at Caltech because she's finishing her post doc.

[kimbee73]

10 hours ago, snapepans said:

This post got me so confused. But I want to discuss this. 

1. "bachelor" means "not in a romantic relationship with someone", right?  So, no, Sheldon is NOT a bachelor.

 

I am only quoting this part to answer your question. The rest of the post I completely agree with. Bachelor technically means never married which Sheldon has never been. He is however in a committed relationship with Amy which we all know so Ramona should back off. She obviously is one of those women who could care less. He isn't fair game at all....she just feels that way since he is not married, even though that doesn't stop some women too.

[joyceraye]

9 hours ago, snapepans said:

This post got me so confused. But I want to discuss this. 

1. "bachelor" means "not in a romantic relationship with someone", right?  So, no, Sheldon is NOT a bachelor.

2. Ramona has been following Sheldon's romantic situation all these years.

    Where did the TR say this? 

3. Amy went ONE date with Stuart, then she became Sheldon's girlfriend.  There is NO "when Amy was dating Stuart". This is NOT a "continuous situation".

4. "hardly even a sexual relationship" is NOT an accurate description, Shamy have a sexual relationship, the frequency of their sex enconters has nothing to do with anyone else but themselves.

5. "he commits himself any further".

I think being someone's boyfriend IS a very important commitment, "being in a serious relationship" IS as important as "being married".

 

And, I want to say, I'm pretty sure that Amy's line "you had one job" is some exaggerated funny joke from the writers. But I could be wrong, though.

 

PS: I apologize for my blunt words and harsh tone, I'm sorry, I just don't understand where this original post is coming from.

In English, a bachelor is any unmarried man. Rajesh, Stuart, Bert and Sheldon are all bachelors; Leslie Winkle, Ramona and Amy are all spinsters; Mary Cooper and her mother Constance are widows; Beverly Hofstadter is a divorcee.  On the marriage certificate and licence it records the status of the couple at the time  of the ceremony.  Amy's will say 'spinster' and Sheldon's will say 'bachelor' when their time comes. If either party has been married before they  say 'widow', 'widower' or 'previous marriage dissolved'. It would be interesting to see what it says on Penny's. The night before he gets married, traditionally a man has a party known as the bachelor party,or the bachelor's last night of freedom. In recent years this has been taking place a few nights beforehand so that he and his friends don't have a hangover for the wedding.

The words ''For all we know' mean a suggestion of a possibility is to follow, it is not a statement of fact.

There is no such status as 'being in a serious relationship'. It doesn't mean anything until they are engaged or married. There is no actual commitment before an engagement. If a loving couple are living in the same home unmarried, it has no more status than two friends or two relatives sharing. They may of course feel it does :  Shamy do and we're all expecting it will lead to more. There are nicknames such as 'shacked up', 'living over the brush'. 'married life without a certificate', 'playing house',  'getting the milk free without buying the cow ', 'sampling the chocolates without buying the box'  a few more less polite ones and 'trial marriage'. Shamy's  is, we're hoping, the latter. The experiment suited them, considering what they're both like. The point is, in reality both parties are free to leave at any time, even if they feel otherwise emotionally and we'd be disappointed if either of them did.

[Capt. Hilts]

12 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

In English, a bachelor is any unmarried man. Rajesh, Stuart, Bert and Sheldon are all bachelors; Leslie Winkle, Ramona and Amy are all spinsters; Mary Cooper and her mother Constance are widows; Beverly Hofstadter is a divorcee. 

The term 'spinsters' is almost extinct here in the States.

[Kathy2611]

31 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

In English, a bachelor is any unmarried man. Rajesh, Stuart, Bert and Sheldon are all bachelors; Leslie Winkle, Ramona and Amy are all spinsters; Mary Cooper and her mother Constance are widows; Beverly Hofstadter is a divorcee.  On the marriage certificate and licence it records the status of the couple at the time  of the ceremony.  Amy's will say 'spinster' and Sheldon's will say 'bachelor' when their time comes. If either party has been married before they  say 'widow', 'widower' or 'previous marriage dissolved'. It would be interesting to see what it says on Penny's. The night before he gets married, traditionally a man has a party known as the bachelor party,or the bachelor's last night of freedom. In recent years this has been taking place a few nights beforehand so that he and his friends don't have a hangover for the wedding.

The words ''For all we know' mean a suggestion of a possibility is to follow, it is not a statement of fact.

There is no such status as 'being in a serious relationship'. It doesn't mean anything until they are engaged or married. There is no actual commitment before an engagement. If a loving couple are living in the same home unmarried, it has no more status than two friends or two relatives sharing. They may of course feel it does :  Shamy do and we're all expecting it will lead to more. There are nicknames such as 'shacked up', 'living over the brush'. 'married life without a certificate', 'playing house',  'getting the milk free without buying the cow ', 'sampling the chocolates without buying the box'  a few more less polite ones and 'trial marriage'. Shamy's  is, we're hoping, the latter. The experiment suited them, considering what they're both like. The point is, in reality both parties are free to leave at any time, even if they feel otherwise emotionally and we'd be disappointed if either of them did.

Not in America.  Here we just say "single" for both males and females.

[Kathy2611]

48 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

In English, a bachelor is any unmarried man. Rajesh, Stuart, Bert and Sheldon are all bachelors; Leslie Winkle, Ramona and Amy are all spinsters; Mary Cooper and her mother Constance are widows; Beverly Hofstadter is a divorcee.  On the marriage certificate and licence it records the status of the couple at the time  of the ceremony.  Amy's will say 'spinster' and Sheldon's will say 'bachelor' when their time comes. If either party has been married before they  say 'widow', 'widower' or 'previous marriage dissolved'. It would be interesting to see what it says on Penny's. The night before he gets married, traditionally a man has a party known as the bachelor party,or the bachelor's last night of freedom. In recent years this has been taking place a few nights beforehand so that he and his friends don't have a hangover for the wedding.

The words ''For all we know' mean a suggestion of a possibility is to follow, it is not a statement of fact.

There is no such status as 'being in a serious relationship'. It doesn't mean anything until they are engaged or married. There is no actual commitment before an engagement. If a loving couple are living in the same home unmarried, it has no more status than two friends or two relatives sharing. They may of course feel it does :  Shamy do and we're all expecting it will lead to more. There are nicknames such as 'shacked up', 'living over the brush'. 'married life without a certificate', 'playing house',  'getting the milk free without buying the cow ', 'sampling the chocolates without buying the box'  a few more less polite ones and 'trial marriage'. Shamy's  is, we're hoping, the latter. The experiment suited them, considering what they're both like. The point is, in reality both parties are free to leave at any time, even if they feel otherwise emotionally and we'd be disappointed if either of them did.

First bold part....seriously?!  Well, LEGALLY speaking, yes you're correct but that still doesn't give anybody the right to try and work their way in and break it up.  There isn't anybody that would honestly feel their monogamous relationship isn't "serious."

Second bold part....this applies to EVERYBODY regardless of whether they're a couple living separately, a couple living together, an engaged couple or even a married couple.

[djsurrey]

When I see the episode I'll be watching to see if Ramona is just crazy or if she is trying to harm Sheldon. 

[April]

32 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

There is no such status as 'being in a serious relationship'. It doesn't mean anything until they are engaged or married. There is no actual commitment before an engagement. If a loving couple are living in the same home unmarried, it has no more status than two friends or two relatives sharing. They may of course feel it does :  Shamy do and we're all expecting it will lead to more. There are nicknames such as 'shacked up', 'living over the brush'. 'married life without a certificate', 'playing house',  'getting the milk free without buying the cow ', 'sampling the chocolates without buying the box'  a few more less polite ones and 'trial marriage'. Shamy's  is, we're hoping, the latter. The experiment suited them, considering what they're both like. The point is, in reality both parties are free to leave at any time, even if they feel otherwise emotionally and we'd be disappointed if either of them did.

Oh my.... where to begin with this?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here I guess you're coming from a legal angle and yes, in that case the state or governmental institutions don't care about "serious relationships". BUT we're talking about a dating situation here and none of the legal stuff has anything to do with the situation at hand.

Yes, you can walk away from a relationship. But you can also walk away from a marriage, hence the handy thing called "divorce". And no, the marriage license doesn't say anything about commitment or availability of dating. There are marriages that are just downright awful and abusive and I would have a hard time calling those "committed". There are also marriages where both partners agreed to an arrangement where they are open to date others so exclusivity is also not something you'll automatically find in marriages. On the other hand there are lifelong caring committed relationships where the partners decided not to get married for some reason or were legally barred from doing so because of discrimination and basically telling these people that their relationship doesn't count because of some stupid legal formality is an awful way of thinking, sorry to be so blunt here.

So when it comes to dating the only thing that matters is what the couple in question thinks of their relationship and how they conduct it. Sheldon and Amy are committed to each other and exclusive to a level that's pretty rare these days - and that is all that counts when a third person tries to intrude. If Ramona thinks that Sheldon is fair game because Amy is out of town then she is at best sadly mistaken and at worst a terrible terrible person for trying to ruin someone else's relationship.

[Jonny]

Yea or Nay it being a good idea to re-watch her first appearance before the new episode airs? Is anyone else going to?

Honestly if there was an attraction there it wasn't massive for me, she seemed all about channeling his brilliant mind more than anything and get joint credit for his discoveries. I guess she could have had real feelings for him as well but she never got the opportunity to express them before Sheldon booted her out lol. But i'll admit it's a long time since I watched it, wasn't a fan of it when I first saw it so not one that I check out if it happens to be on E4 repeats.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny

[Soopysue]

In English, a bachelor is any unmarried man. Rajesh, Stuart, Bert and Sheldon are all bachelors; Leslie Winkle, Ramona and Amy are all spinsters; Mary Cooper and her mother Constance are widows; Beverly Hofstadter is a divorcee.  On the marriage certificate and licence it records the status of the couple at the time  of the ceremony.  Amy's will say 'spinster' and Sheldon's will say 'bachelor' when their time comes. If either party has been married before they  say 'widow', 'widower' or 'previous marriage dissolved'. It would be interesting to see what it says on Penny's. The night before he gets married, traditionally a man has a party known as the bachelor party,or the bachelor's last night of freedom. In recent years this has been taking place a few nights beforehand so that he and his friends don't have a hangover for the wedding.
The words ''For all we know' mean a suggestion of a possibility is to follow, it is not a statement of fact.
There is no such status as 'being in a serious relationship'. It doesn't mean anything until they are engaged or married. There is no actual commitment before an engagement. If a loving couple are living in the same home unmarried, it has no more status than two friends or two relatives sharing. They may of course feel it does :  Shamy do and we're all expecting it will lead to more. There are nicknames such as 'shacked up', 'living over the brush'. 'married life without a certificate', 'playing house',  'getting the milk free without buying the cow ', 'sampling the chocolates without buying the box'  a few more less polite ones and 'trial marriage'. Shamy's  is, we're hoping, the latter. The experiment suited them, considering what they're both like. The point is, in reality both parties are free to leave at any time, even if they feel otherwise emotionally and we'd be disappointed if either of them did.

I'm just replying quickly, but I think the term is usually used is "Common law " wife or husband - when you live with your BF/GF - although I'm not sure if that only applies after a certain length of time . But certainly in the U.K. It eventually entitles you to roughly the same as a proper spouse by law .....although as I say I'm in a rush so can't google to check.
I think the point is that living with your boyfriend etc is considered a very serious relationship


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[Jonny]

14 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

When I see the episode I'll be watching to see if Ramona is just crazy or if she is trying to harm Sheldon. 

Obviously haven't seen it yet but she sounds way less crazy than the last time. She was bat shit crazy that time, she seems more sly and manipulative this time. Less in your face, more subtle.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jonny