Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

[Gbb]

18 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We who know Sheldon is one step away from getting his ring out wouldn't see him as fair game for any decent  woman, but what does Ramona really believe about Sheldon's availability ? We don't know what she's heard. The chopped-up, moved-about final version of episode 10.24 is yet to be shown, there might even be an added-to one, and there may be more revealed in  August and September. Yes, if Leonard and Penny were 'untogether' at the time he snogged Mandy, he was fair game. If Lenny were 'together', then he jolly well wasn't.

She knows they've dated for years and that they live together. Let's strip it down further and say she ONLY knows they live together. That's more than enough to know he isn't "fair game." Any decent person knows that when a couple has chosen to merge their lives and belongings and share a home, neither of them are on the market. 

[Capt. Hilts]

44 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I don't know what part of the UK you're referring to, and I'm no expert on Scots law, but in England and Wales there's no such thing as a 'Common Law' marriage although some younger people think there is and get quite a rude awakening when they find there isn't. There's a term LTAHAW  for tax and benefits purposes ( used to be called Living in Sin ) so that single people who are living together as husband and wife can't cheat the system to put themselves at an advantage above a married couple. Common Law is a general  legal term that means the law as interpreted by judges. The only time it could describe an official marriage was when the ceremony had taken place on a battlefield.

Interesting, there is 'Common Law' marriage in Canada, as it relates to property, such as ownership of premises in which both have lived together.

At least, in Ontario.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Capt. Hilts

[joyceraye]

5 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

Not in America.  Here we just say "single" for both males and females.

Thanks. I can't say I've seen many American ones other than on TV. I saw a birth certificate once, which had the word 'single' on it but that meant he wasn't a twin. I remember it because we don't do that. If it doesn't have a time of birth recorded then it's a single.

[Kathy2611]

35 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We who know Sheldon is one step away from getting his ring out wouldn't see him as fair game for any decent  woman, but what does Ramona really believe about Sheldon's availability ? We don't know what she's heard. The chopped-up, moved-about final version of episode 10.24 is yet to be shown, there might even be an added-to one, and there may be more revealed in  August and September. Yes, if Leonard and Penny were 'untogether' at the time he snogged Mandy, he was fair game. If Lenny were 'together', then he jolly well wasn't.

Have you actually read the taping reports to this episode?  We've got at least 2 people (that I know of) who actually went and have an extremely reliable reputation for getting accurate information about what's going on.  It is specifically stated that Sheldon talks about Amy ALL THE TIME. It's also stated that Ramona is ALWAYS asking when Amy is coming back. 

If you were in the exact same type of relationship as Amy, how would you feel if some former admirer of your boyfriend (LIVE IN boyfriend, one you were solely exclusive with), was trying to form a romantic relationship with him while you were away on a career opportunity for the summer?  Wouldn't like it very much, would you?  Would you think it was wrong?  Especially if she still tried to go after him when he specifically started listing reasons why he wasn't interested in such a relationship with her?  What would your generation think of a woman like that?  One of the names older folks in America call women like that "floozies."  

When a couple state that they are in a monogamous relationship, it doesn't matter what their LEGAL status is.  Other people should respect that and not try and worm their way into it.  Period.  Wrong is wrong regardless what the legal status is.

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

Have you actually read the taping reports to this episode?  We've got at least 2 people (that I know of) who actually went and have an extremely reliable reputation for getting accurate information about what's going on.  It is specifically stated that Sheldon talks about Amy ALL THE TIME. It's also stated that Ramona is ALWAYS asking when Amy is coming back. 

If you were in the exact same type of relationship as Amy, how would you feel if some former admirer of your boyfriend (LIVE IN boyfriend, one you were solely exclusive with), was trying to form a romantic relationship with him while you were away on a career opportunity for the summer?  Wouldn't like it very much, would you?  Would you think it was wrong?  Especially if she still tried to go after him when he specifically started listing reasons why he wasn't interested in such a relationship with her?  What would your generation think of a woman like that?  One of the names older folks in America call women like that "floozies."  

When a couple state that they are in a monogamous relationship, it doesn't matter what their LEGAL status is.  Other people should respect that and not try and worm their way into it.  Period.  Wrong is wrong regardless what the legal status is.

My generation would think Amy was a floozie too, ( Not that Amy would mind that. She finds the role of bad girl titillating ) so to us there'd be little or no difference, morally speaking, between her and Ramona. LOL. To answer your question about how someone of my generation would feel had there been such a thing as a live-in boyfriend that someone else tried to take away : it wouldn't have mattered what a girlfriend felt if it broke up. She might feel very sad and betrayed but it didn't count. She had no claim on the man,nor he on her, because she was only his bit of stuff and he was only her fancy man.There would be no sympathy for the deserted party. The attitude would be that they both knew the situation was temporary because the point of not being married was so they could retain the freedom of single persons. The living arrangements would generally have been considered wrong in the first place, so someone who came between them wouldn't be regarded as any more wrong.  It's a far cry from our 21st century Shamy, who see themselves as monogamous for ever, legalities notwithstanding.

Were this real life and were Amy my daughter, in most circumstances I'd be ashamed of her for shacking up, but in this case, considering the man in question is Sheldon Cooper ? Well, like his mother, I'd look at things another way. He's a special one all right. If ever there was an exception to the rule, this would be it ! If they were going straight from courtship  into marriage I'd be concerned in case he ground my daughter down with his schedules and agreements, his fads, fancies and foibles, not to mention the indifference he used to show her at times that led her to need time away from him to think things over. I'd want to be reassured he could keep calm and not flee the camp in a crisis. The public verbal abuse of her on Fun with Flags after the break-up would worry me until I was sure there was going to be no repetition. So, I'd want proof that this new,reformed, loving,considerate Sheldon was going to be a permanent presence. I'd be pleased this time she was trying him out to see what he was like to live with at close quarters. I'd even encourage her in her brush-living experiment and blow what the neighbours thought.

Yes, I've read the TRs.  Just try and keep me away from them.   Ramona says Sheldon talks about Amy all the time. He does that now. I wonder what he told Ramona about her and how Ramona used that ?  At what stage did Sheldon categorically  state he considered himself already mated for life and  it was only a matter of time before he was married ? We don't know what Ramona's heard from elsewhere over the years. She may have been told about the break-up and how long it was. We don't know whether she's picked up gossip about how 'slow' the Shamy relationship used to be and how recently it's looked serious to those outside. She must have her reasons for believing it's more fragile than it is. I'd  like to know what they are and why she sees an opportunity, and more especially why she thinks she can succeed. Something makes the vulnerability dawn on Sheldon so that he grasps the need to put a ring on it.

[Soopysue]

I don't know what part of the UK you're referring to, and I'm no expert on Scots law, but in England and Wales there's no such thing as a 'Common Law' marriage although some younger people think there is and get quite a rude awakening when they find there isn't. There's a term LTAHAW  for tax and benefits purposes ( used to be called Living in Sin ) so that single people who are living together as husband and wife can't cheat the system to put themselves at an advantage above a married couple. Common Law is a general  legal term that means the law as interpreted by judges. The only time it could describe an official marriage was when the ceremony had taken place on a battlefield.

I'm from Scotland


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[April]

One thing that doesn't make sense to me about this "Ramona only targets Sheldon because he isn't married and thus fair game" theory is that this attitude doesn't fit her generation. Like, all this talk about past morals doesn't fit her cause she's not some 60 year old lady with conservative morals (no offence). For her generation it's normal to have serious relationships without a marriage license.

So all that this tells me is that she has a fundamental disrespect for the relationship and imho the episode would play out exactly the same if Shamy were already engaged or even married. No, the deciding factor seems to be that Amy is away since Ramona is always asking when she'll be back. It's a race against the clock for her cause as long as Sheldon is alone and vulnerable she knows she can manipulate him in hope he'll leave Amy for her. Again, marriage wouldn't make a difference here cause it's certainly not unheard of husbands leaving their wives for a new woman - so if Shamy were married she would have hoped for that outcome.

Also, I remember the TR not even having that many scenes where Ramona is open about her motivation. She is sly and manipulative. The only thing we get is her suspicious curiosity about Amy's absence and that she admits in the end she is interested in a romantic relationship. There is nothing about "I just target you because you're not married!" nonsense.

[Jonny]

Probably because I know what she is up to in the next episode but I watched the Season 2 episode last night and found it hard to watch. I really couldn't stand the sight of her. Ugh Ramona!

[mirs1]

38 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Probably because I know what she is up to in the next episode but I watched the Season 2 episode last night and found it hard to watch. I really couldn't stand the sight of her. Ugh Ramona!

If it is of any consolation, I've always had mixed feelings for  The Cooper-Nowitzki Theorem. I couldn't help laughing at the whole "You can be my Yoko Ono" segment, but I also felt really uncomfortable with it, as there was something wrong in laughing at it, and overall I found Ramona pretty irritating. That happened since the first time I watched the episode, which obviously was before Amy was introduced, so my feelings were not affected by Shamy being a thing at all. As an experiment, this evening I'll watch it again, just to see how I feel about it now...you know...#forscience!

Edited May 9, 2017 by mirs1

[spidergirl]

I have had an earlier chat with @mirs1 about Ramona in s2 and I thought it was a funny plot at first time I watched Cooper theorem episode because we had not seen Sheldon interacting with women in a way so close as we saw in that episode. And of course because Amy did not exist in his life yet.

Last week I have rewatched it again and I thought it was more irritating than funny. Now I won't rewatch that episode again, lol! 

Last week for science I did that rewatch! Now for science  I will watch next episode with the experiment method as an upon, lol! Observation, data collecting, and so one until the conclusion: shamy love is bulletproof, Ramona was like an inerte in a chemical reaction: none contribution to the final reaction result, hehe!

Edited May 9, 2017 by spidergirl

[kimbee73]

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

I have had an earlier chat with @mirs1 about Ramona in s2 and I thought it was a funny plot at first time I watched Cooper theorem episode because we had not seen Sheldon interacting with women in a way so close as we saw in that episode. And of course because Amy did not exist in his life yet.

Last week I have rewatched it again and I thought it was more irritating than funny. Now I won't rewatch that episode again, lol! 

Last week for science I did that rewatch! Now for science  I will watch next episode with the experiment method as an upon, lol! Observation, data collecting, and so one until the conclusion: shamy love is bulletproof, Ramona was like an inerte in a chemical reaction: none contribution to the final reaction result, hehe!

I have always liked that episode. Apparently I am in the minority. I thought Sheldon somehow getting himself in a relationship without even realizing it was hysterical. And I still do. He was so clueless back then.

I think when she comes back, he talks about Amy all the time because he remembers the relationship she forced him into and is telling her hey I am in a relationship now, I don't want one with you. He thinks that is enough but obviously he is completely oblivious to Ramona because he feels since he told her all about Amy, she knows he isn't interested so he just wants to be friends. Still clueless.....I am hoping still funny like then.

When Penny points out that Ramona is still interested and compares him to a mint in box toy he immediately says well I've been played with(we know figuratively and literally...LOL). He thinks it is taken care of and bam! Look Ramona is interested and doesn't care about Amy in any way shape or form.

We don't know if Ramona has been following Sheldon since she was kicked out of his life but my guess is she has. She may have been harboring feelings all this time and saw the relationship had a break the year before and wants to see if it would be possible again. Maybe she is one of the 200 people they have following FWF and she saw the meltdown he had. We have no idea what her thinking is but we all know we hate it because Shamy is so strong.

I actually hope Ramona is in the 1st episode next season so Amy can come back and give her a piece of her mind after Sheldon tells her what happened. I don't think he will keep it a secret(The writers wouldn't do that again, right?) So I think he tells her, we get a great engagement and a quick wedding. We know Sheldon doesn't want a long drawn out engagement.  Maybe they find a courthouse in NJ to get married at.(I can see it and I personally think they should do it like that). They come back married and Amy says to Ramona "How do you like that?"

Okay enough dreaming....come on Thursday.

[joyceraye]

14 minutes ago, kimbee73 said:

I have always liked that episode. Apparently I am in the minority. I thought Sheldon somehow getting himself in a relationship without even realizing it was hysterical. And I still do. He was so clueless back then.

I think when she comes back, he talks about Amy all the time because he remembers the relationship she forced him into and is telling her hey I am in a relationship now, I don't want one with you. He thinks that is enough but obviously he is completely oblivious to Ramona because he feels since he told her all about Amy, she knows he isn't interested so he just wants to be friends. Still clueless.....I am hoping still funny like then.

When Penny points out that Ramona is still interested and compares him to a mint in box toy he immediately says well I've been played with(we know figuratively and literally...LOL). He thinks it is taken care of and bam! Look Ramona is interested and doesn't care about Amy in any way shape or form.

We don't know if Ramona has been following Sheldon since she was kicked out of his life but my guess is she has. She may have been harboring feelings all this time and saw the relationship had a break the year before and wants to see if it would be possible again. Maybe she is one of the 200 people they have following FWF and she saw the meltdown he had. We have no idea what her thinking is but we all know we hate it because Shamy is so strong.

I actually hope Ramona is in the 1st episode next season so Amy can come back and give her a piece of her mind after Sheldon tells her what happened. I don't think he will keep it a secret(The writers wouldn't do that again, right?) So I think he tells her, we get a great engagement and a quick wedding. We know Sheldon doesn't want a long drawn out engagement.  Maybe they find a courthouse in NJ to get married at.(I can see it and I personally think they should do it like that). They come back married and Amy says to Ramona "How do you like that?"

Okay enough dreaming....come on Thursday.

Bold : This is what I've been thinking. It makes sense to me. Ramona was an admirer of Sheldon's work and also had an infatuation with him. She's never forgotten him. Now she comes back all triumphant to lay her trophies at his feet. I'm waiting to see and hear her expressions before I decide whether I feel sorry for her, carrying a torch all these years, or not. If I feel sorry for her and she regrets her moves on Sheldon having accepted he's not available, I hope she takes up with Raj or Stuart and is good for him. (It's time we had somebody getting behind Stuart and turning him into a success.)   If not, I hope she gets Kripke.

Yes, I'd like to  see a quickie marriage in N J and then parties and receptions when they get home, including a nice do-over in Texas. Bernadette and Raj to organise.

I don't understand what Penny is telling Sheldon about his being a limited edition toy, mint in box, and what it has to do with Ramona's designs.

 

[Soopysue]

One thing that doesn't make sense to me about this "Ramona only targets Sheldon because he isn't married and thus fair game" theory is that this attitude doesn't fit her generation. Like, all this talk about past morals doesn't fit her cause she's not some 60 year old lady with conservative morals (no offence). For her generation it's normal to have serious relationships without a marriage license.
So all that this tells me is that she has a fundamental disrespect for the relationship and imho the episode would play out exactly the same if Shamy were already engaged or even married. No, the deciding factor seems to be that Amy is away since Ramona is always asking when she'll be back. It's a race against the clock for her cause as long as Sheldon is alone and vulnerable she knows she can manipulate him in hope he'll leave Amy for her. Again, marriage wouldn't make a difference here cause it's certainly not unheard of husbands leaving their wives for a new woman - so if Shamy were married she would have hoped for that outcome.
Also, I remember the TR not even having that many scenes where Ramona is open about her motivation. She is sly and manipulative. The only thing we get is her suspicious curiosity about Amy's absence and that she admits in the end she is interested in a romantic relationship. There is nothing about "I just target you because you're not married!" nonsense.

I "like" this post x100 !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joyceraye]

7 hours ago, Soopysue said:

I'm from Scotland
 

Marriage laws are much wider and generous there. ( Hence the popularity of Gretna Green. )  If I remember rightly from reading about comparisons with Scotland some years ago when I was studying the English Legal System, there was something about an ancient law in Scotland whereby any couple who publicly declared themselves married and then consummated the union were legally married from that day.  I don't know if that still applies. Only last year I read on a government website that any couple who had lived as spouses a number of years and were known 'by custom and repute' within the community to be married could be considered officially married. None of that applies south of the border. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by joyceraye

[kimbee73]

13 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Bold : This is what I've been thinking. It makes sense to me. Ramona was an admirer of Sheldon's work and also had an infatuation with him. She's never forgotten him. Now she comes back all triumphant to lay her trophies at his feet. I'm waiting to see and hear her expressions before I decide whether I feel sorry for her, carrying a torch all these years, or not. If I feel sorry for her and she regrets her moves on Sheldon having accepted he's not available, I hope she takes up with Raj or Stuart and is good for him. (It's time we had somebody getting behind Stuart and turning him into a success.)   If not, I hope she gets Kripke.

Yes, I'd like to  see a quickie marriage in N J and then parties and receptions when they get home, including a nice do-over in Texas. Bernadette and Raj to organise.

I don't understand what Penny is telling Sheldon about his being a limited edition toy, mint in box, and what it has to do with Ramona's designs.

 

I agree if her actions are regretted I will forgive her. If not I hope Amy comes down hard.

I think Penny means that it's like the toy that everyone wants but there are only a few so it is very coveted. Sheldon's answer is perfect.....I'm not that mint in box any more, Amy has played with me so I am not as good. Not in those words but I think that is the meaning behind it.

[mirs1]

15 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I don't understand what Penny is telling Sheldon about his being a limited edition toy, mint in box, and what it has to do with Ramona's designs.

 

Sheldon didn't understand why Ramona would have interest in him  and Penny compared him to a limited edition toy, because Sheldon collects limited edition toys and does whatever it takes to get them, so it was a comparison he could get. Sheldon's reply means that, as a limited edition toy looses all its value for collectors once it's out of its box, he has lost all his value for single women since he already has a girlfriend. 

[April]

Personally, I won't be holding my breath to see some remorse from Ramona.

First of all, she's going after a guy in a relationship. This is not an accident, she knows what she's doing here. Even after Sheldon explicitly turns her down her reaction is to kiss him against his will instead of, you know, back away.

Second, we know that there won't be any remorseful scenes in 10x24 so we would have to hope that she comes back in 11x01 for that. And that happening is a huge uncertainty. This could easily be a one-and-done guest appearance and then the S11 opening glosses over her character all together and concentrates on the proposal and whatever the gang back home in Pasadena is up to. We'll have to wait and see how the actual episode turns out but again, not holding my breath here.

[mirs1]

11 minutes ago, April said:

Personally, I won't be holding my breath to see some remorse from Ramona.

First of all, she's going after a guy in a relationship. This is not an accident, she knows what she's doing here. Even after Sheldon explicitly turns her down her reaction is to kiss him against his will instead of, you know, back away.

Second, we know that there won't be any remorseful scenes in 10x24 so we would have to hope that she comes back in 11x01 for that. And that happening is a huge uncertainty. This could easily be a one-and-done guest appearance and then the S11 opening glosses over her character all together and concentrates on the proposal and whatever the gang back home in Pasadena is up to. We'll have to wait and see how the actual episode turns out but again, not holding my breath here.

I'm going back and forth about Ramona being in S. 11 premiere in general and interacting with Amy in particular. It might be fun or cringeworthy, depending on the execution. I'm not sure I want to see Amy rushing in Pasadena just to tear her a new one...

Edited May 9, 2017 by mirs1

[April]

1 minute ago, mirs1 said:

I'm going back and forth about Ramona being in S. 11 premiere in general and interacting with Amy in particular. It might be fun or cringeworthy, depending on the execution, but I lean to cringeworthy, TBH, I'm not sure I want to see Amy rushing in Pasadena just to tear her a new one...

Yeah, whatever happens I don't want Amy to cut her stay in Princeton short for this nonsense. I'd rather have Sheldon hide out in NJ for the three months and keep himself busy with giving tours around the campus to an audience willing to listen to his gazillion assorted "fun facts". If there is anything with Ramona let the gang chase her out of town or something, I don't care.

[wowbagger]

oh goodness yes, let the poor girl stay in Princeton! If I was irritated about amy's career being hijacked by Sheldon, imagine how annoyed I would be if she had to abandon her work to fumigate the flat and de-louse it. Like she is pest control or something. Sheldon can stay in Princeton and the gang can deal with Ramona. Maybe she'll chase them to nj for a road trip!

[littleknee]

I for one, have no interest in seeing Ramona in season 11. I thought the episode in season 2 was clever, but I really didn't like Ramona's character. Nothing against the actress, she did a great job with the role but the character gave me the creeps. She was aggressive and manipulative ... which of course is the point in 10.24. I don't need to see her feel bad, or apologize, or get her comeuppance from Amy. I'd rather Amy and Sheldon deal with it in Princeton, and have that be the end of it. I'm only partially looking forward to the finale because I feel like the premise is a little icky. I am however very much looking forward to the gang's reactions, which sound quite funny and of course to the tag ... and the Shamy Skype scenes. I also hope Amy stays in Princeton for the summer. It will show that she trusts Sheldon, give him some time to be independent on his own, and show that she is continuing her research. 

[kimbee73]

I don't want Amy leaving Princeton either. I like the idea of the gang stepping in and taking care of Ramona. Who knows what the writers have plaInned. She probably will be a one and done guest star. I'd be fine with that too.

[mirs1]

3 minutes ago, littleknee said:

I for one, have no interest in seeing Ramona in season 11. I thought the episode in season 2 was clever, but I really didn't like Ramona's character. Nothing against the actress, she did a great job with the role but the character gave me the creeps. She was aggressive and manipulative ... which of course is the point in 10.24. I don't need to see her feel bad, or apologize, or get her comeuppance from Amy. I'd rather Amy and Sheldon deal with it in Princeton, and have that be the end of it. I'm only partially looking forward to the finale because I feel like the premise is a little icky. I am however very much looking forward to the gang's reactions, which sound quite funny and of course to the tag ... and the Shamy Skype scenes. I also hope Amy stays in Princeton for the summer. It will show that she trusts Sheldon, give him some time to be independent on his own, and show that she is continuing her research. 

I agree on that...I love the idea of Sheldon spending some time alone, it's really something he needs IMO. For many years he has lived with someone and has relied on them in many aspects. I'd love to see how he cope by himself; well...relatively speaking by himself, his support group, as he finale shows, it's pretty present in his life and ready to step up for him, LOL! I also would love to know (if not shown on screen) that Amy is doing great in Princeton and that this experience has been very positive for her career. I'm very curious to see how the writers are going to handle the whole situation, for sure the premiere will start with no time jump whatsoever, but after 11.1 everything is possible!

[spidergirl]

11 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I agree on that...I love the idea of Sheldon spending some time alone, it's really something he needs IMO. For many years he has lived with someone and has relied on them in many aspects. I'd love to see how he cope by himself; well...relatively speaking by himself, his support group, as he finale shows, it's pretty present in his life and ready to step up for him, LOL! I also would love to know (if not shown on screen) that Amy is doing great in Princeton and that this experience has been very positive for her career. I'm very curious to see how the writers are going to handle the whole situation, for sure the premiere will start with no time jump whatsoever, but after 11.1 everything is possible!

Same here. I think it would be very interisting to see Sheldon spending some time alone and to cope by himself. After all good vibes we have been getting from his growth process as he started to live with Amy, that would be a great scenario to explore about Sheldon's emotions.

And let Amy having her experience in Princeton as she felt Sheldon was doing good and both managed ways to have some time together for her summer time in Princeton. It would be a great way to see their relationship get stronger as they now are ready for face everything that a couple could face as they share their lives as they were one.

Edited May 9, 2017 by spidergirl

[Jonny]

I guess anything is possible but I would be surprised if we see Ramona again in 11.1 and you can add me to the list of people that doesn't really want to see her in season 11 or for that matter see Amy coming back to tell her what's what and set her straight. Sheldon's reaction should have said enough.

In terms of early speculation for 11.1 and in regards to Amy's Princeton work I don't think we will at all see her working at Princeton or perhaps see her via Skype for say a couple of episodes. I would have loved to see Amy with a storyline there working but alas I don't think it will happen.

My guess would be after we get whatever they decide the outcome of the proposal is (yes or no) that we get a time jump with Shamy back in Pasadena or Amy is due to arrive home in the episode. But the writers do have some flexibility or a bit of a blank canvas here, they could immediately involve the rest of the gang wondering where Sheldon has gone to/the proposal outcome and then a time jump, or Sheldon could be returning with Amy in the first episode after the 3 months or so after her research position has concluded etc.

11.1 is set up nicely, they can go in several different directions with this season opener.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Jonny