Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

[mirs1]

11 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Wearing the Green Lantern t-shirt.

I want Amy to say "Yes" as the new season begins, after that she can wear all the Green Lantern t-shirts she likes, LOL!

[DrWackaDoodle]

As I think about how 11.01 could play out, the writers have 4 options:

immediate yes

delayed yes (love the panic attack theory y'all have)

immediate no

no for now but let's talk about it after Amy's done at Princeton

I don't think I going to be an immediate yes- otherwise what's the point of a cliffhanger other than boosting ratings? They got the two year renewal and all indications are that they're done at 12 (not ready to say goodbye to this show but that's another post.)

Delayed yes seems the most likely to me: Amy's definitely in shock but she definitely wasn't expecting Sheldon to fly 3,000 miles and be on bended knee when she opens her door. (Majim nailed that scene, btw!) As far as she knows, Sheldon is in Pasadena and there's another chick sniffing around the goods. If I was Amy, I'd have more than a few questions about what happened to make my commitment phobic boyfriend fly across the country to propose. Ultimate gesture to show he's ready but I'd definitely be concerned it's out of guilt.

Immediate no: I consider this the least likely scenario. Amy wants this more than anything else and we had that episode with her crying to the girls about not moving forward with her relationship with Sheldon. This option would completely destroy Sheldon and I think be the end of Shamy as well as the show's jump the shark moment. Fans would totally revolt. Not happening.

Delayed no: to me this is the most interesting option and could open up some comedic and touching storylines as Sheldon tries to prove he's ready and only has eyes for Amy. As I said above, I can see Amy thinking the proposal is from a place of guilt and not being done for the right reasons. This could create a little drama and tension, as well as draw in more viewers who are wondering "is this the week?" Don't get me wrong, I loved the tag last night, but it didn't feel "Shamyesque." The writers could get a redo ala Lenny. The more I think about it, the more I love this option.

 

[Capt. Hilts]

27 minutes ago, DrWackaDoodle said:

Delayed yes seems the most likely to me: Amy's definitely in shock but she definitely wasn't expecting Sheldon to fly 3,000 miles and be on bended knee when she opens her door. (Majim nailed that scene, btw!) As far as she knows, Sheldon is in Pasadena and there's another chick sniffing around the goods. If I was Amy, I'd have more than a few questions about what happened to make my commitment phobic boyfriend fly across the country to propose.

Do we really think he's "commitment phobic?" 

Part of me [ideally, my brain] thinks he gets too committed to certain habits, behaviors, people, etc.

[Gbb]

8 hours ago, shamymania said:

I believe the kiss with Ramona and Sheldon's reaction to it was meant to say: This kiss feels different. It doesn't feel like when Amy kisses me. I now know I can only ever kiss Amy, love Amy. I don't want another. I want Amy for the rest of my life. I need to propose.  I want to marry Amy.  

I figure this is the thought process Sheldon had during the Ramona kiss.

 

6 hours ago, mirs1 said:

But, but but...that Ramona thing in general and the kiss in particular....I really don't think they were necessary in the first place. As I said, I don't think it prompted Sheldon to propose out of guilt, and frankly I'm not even a bit worried this situation will create any trouble in the future whether Amy and Sheldon talk about it or not (even I hope they will, but the vibe I got from Molaro interviews is that at the moment in the writers room they are not really focusing on it). The episode stressed in every possible way that Sheldon is oblivious and has no intention to harm Amy, so that's all good. That kiss, though, was very "visual" and longer than I thought, and I'm a bit sorry it will be tied with Shamy's proposal. I would have wanted something "different" for them.

Besides the drama factor, I think I understand another reason the writers brought back Ramona. As much as we've joked that Sheldon is "Amysexual," the truth is that she's the first and only woman who has ever made him want a romantic & sexual relationship. Sure, we all understand that there's no other woman in the world for Sheldon but we're watching from the outside. Most people choose a mate after years of dating and figuring out what does and doesn't work for them. Sheldon's never had a single woman to compare her to. He's had a woman or two offer before, but he was so oblivious he didn't even realize what was being offered. The one time he tried to date someone else (the Craig's list scavenger hunt) he concocted a reason to disqualify her so that he wouldn't even have to consider whether he'd want to date her.  Last week's ep made it clear that Sheldon was feeling ready for something more permanent with Amy. But is it by default because she "wore him down?" Or is she really the only one for him?

In walks beautiful, intelligent Ramona Nowitski, who he clearly enjoys spending time with. Who, as it turns out, would be very happy to pursue a romantic relationship with Dr. Cooper... One touch of her lips and no one ever has to wonder if Sheldon is with Amy by default. Those lips aren't Amy's. I only want hers. And I don't want to wait one more minute.

[DrWackaDoodle]

5 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Do we really think he's "commitment phobic?" 

Part of me [ideally, my brain] thinks he gets too committed to certain habits, behaviors, people, etc.

Yes, I do, actually. Sheldon has had to be pushed and forced by circumstance into each and every major milestone of this relationship, but once he's coerced, he finds it's not as bad as he imagined.  I don't doubt that he loves Amy, but he's s creature of habit. If Ramona hadn't kissed him, would he have proposed? I somehow doubt it.

[Gbb]

1 minute ago, DrWackaDoodle said:

Yes, I do, actually. Sheldon has had to be pushed and forced by circumstance into each and every major milestone of this relationship, but once he's coerced, he finds it's not as bad as he imagined.  I don't doubt that he loves Amy, but he's s creature of habit. If Ramona hadn't kissed him, would he have proposed? I somehow doubt it.

Yes and no. The relationship itself, absolutely. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming (all show, of course). But the actual milestones? He jumped to most of those all on his own and far ahead of anything Amy (or we) expected. He kissed her first (first real kiss - not counting her drunken peck from a year before). He interrupted her stuttering attempt at "I love you but  I know you're not ready to say it yet so don't feel pressured" to say "I love you too." And he decided he was ready for coitus long before she expected him to and when there was no pressure from her to move forward physically.

[koops]

I finally watched it and.... What. a. season.

Besides the fact that it's the first year since S5 (S5!!!!) that I get to the end of the season 100% satisfied throughout (S8 came close but then... *shakes fist*), I feel such a big relief having one entire season unbesmirched and, more importantly, with Sheldon and Amy being so consistently in-sync throughout.

I really enjoyed the episode (although of course it doesn't compare to my other favorites of the season) and I'm not concerned about the future. Molaro's interview makes me feel good (for a change) and just confirmed further that 1) they 100% made sure to make it clear Sheldon has no interest in Ramona, nor in cheating - that was never something they intended to play with and that 2) from everyone's reactions to the scene (here comes the 2017 edition of "Steve Molaro cries during a scene") this is it. Why would everyone get so emotional if this wasn't an actual, meaningful proposal? I doubt there's going to be massive drama coming from this, let alone multiple proposals. I think they will clear the air about Ramona in the premiere and they will probably have a touching scene at the end where Amy will accept. 

I actually think that the way they set up the whole thing, and the cliffhanger at the end, made sense from a technical and narrative POV. We might have preferred a different trigger to get Sheldon to propose, like maybe not having Ramona back but him just missing Amy and realizing he was ready to take that step because of that would have worked just great from our POV. But they have to write a comedy, it's a season finale, and they have to shock the audience and I honestly think it worked really well in that sense. Everyone was so focused on Ramona and whether or not Sheldon might cheat that I don't think anybody (in the general audience) thought a proposal was coming. It was sweet, it was romantic, it was shocking, but it wasn't cheesy or over the top. it was simple and to the point. And Sheldon is so calm and determined that there's no doubt in my mind his intentions come from a good place. From what I read on Twitter this morning, it's been received very well. And I've never heard the studio audience scream so hard in 10 seasons! 

I also think that had they had Amy say yes right away, and the kiss/hug whatever had come after, the scene wouldn't have had nearly the same impact from a visual/shock perspective, nor made much sense from Amy's POV. After all, Sheldon's just shown up out of the blue to propose when he's meant to be on the other side of the country, that it's just natural that Amy's first reaction would have been to be shocked and maybe confused. I think it would have been far weirder had she jumped up and said yes. This worked. It makes sense that they wouldn't know how exactly Amy will react and what her response will be because there's so many options to go with. But I'm fairly confident it won't be drama. Or they wouldn't have had Sheldon be completely clueless, innocent, and well intentioned about it. 

From a production POV too... an engagement between Shamy isn't a risk for the show. The biggest risk to the status quo of the show was changing the living arrangements, and that's all done and dusted successfully. An engagement will change nothing in terms of how the show is written and made. So there's really no reason why they might want to re-hash breakup-like drama over THIS, when the show is winding down to its end and Shamy have literally cleared every single issue they've ever had this season. 

I think the only real criticism I have for this episode is that I feel everyone overreacted far too quickly at the very start. I mean, a part of me wonders if that was the writers' tongue-in-cheek way of parodying the way things escalate quickly in the fandom. But I felt like they could have had a better buildup than one single lunch before the gang (and Amy) start panicking/getting crossed. They could have had a montage or a little time-jump to justify the worries. I felt like their concerns were far more organic later on, after Ramona turned down Raj, and took Sheldon swimming and showed up for dinner obviously intent on getting him alone. But, at the beginning of the episode, all that panic seemed a bit excessive. The gang was absolutely on fire though, and that staircase scene might be one of the funniest scenes they have ever shot. 

I don't know how they will pick up in 11x01 (although I think a classic Amy panic attack could definitely be in the cards), but, again, I am pretty sure it will all be fine by the end of the episode at the latest. Again, if they had wanted to toy with more drama, they would have made it much more ambiguous that Sheldon might have been into Ramona, and they would have had him run to Amy in a panic, not in that calm, determined and relaxed way he did. 

And... hey, for the first time in years, I get to have a happy hiatus!  

[spidergirl]

1 hour ago, Carm6773 said:

Needs to open with them in bed and Amy with messy sex hair.

Well, for the s11 premiere I would not put my money on it, as the proposal 's answer must be heard from Amy to Sheldon and imo it is a priority for our sake, lol! But as Amy came back from Princeton, I believe it could happen! Amy wearing a Sheldon 's shirt as they cuddle on bed! A girl can dream, right?

 

[koops]

19 minutes ago, DrWackaDoodle said:

Yes, I do, actually. Sheldon has had to be pushed and forced by circumstance into each and every major milestone of this relationship, but once he's coerced, he finds it's not as bad as he imagined.  I don't doubt that he loves Amy, but he's s creature of habit. If Ramona hadn't kissed him, would he have proposed? I somehow doubt it.

Sheldon is not commitment phobic at all. He doesn't like change. It's a huge difference. A person who is afraid of commitment doesn't want to settle down precisely for the opposite reason: because they like change and they don't know if they are happy to stick with one thing for their whole life. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by koops

[DrWackaDoodle]

11 minutes ago, Gbb said:

Yes and no. The relationship itself, absolutely. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming (all show, of course). But the actual milestones? He jumped to most of those all on his own and far ahead of anything Amy (or we) expected. He kissed her first (first real kiss - not counting her drunken peck from a year before). He interrupted her stuttering attempt at "I love you but  I know you're not ready to say it yet so don't feel pressured" to say "I love you too." And he decided he was ready for coitus long before she expected him to and when there was no pressure from her to move forward physically.

 

I'm arguing that the train kiss came from a place of "I'll show her." It was only as his brain clicked, "hey, this isn't as icky as I imagined," that he moved in and placed his hands upon Amy's hips, deepening the kiss. I'll give you the "I love you," he said it first, however, an argument could be made for social convention. I'm certain that as a child it was drilled into him that when someone says, "I love you," you are expected to reply, "I love you too." As for coitus, in 8.24, Amy yelled at him, "after five years together, all I can get is a distracted makeout session on the couch?" It would be reasonable for Sheldon to believe that part of the reason Amy broke up with him is because their relationship wasn't physical at that point and that line was going through his head. He had just gotten her back in the previous episode and by sleeping with her, marking her as "his," giving her what she finally wanted (albeit once a year until recently) she would be less likely to leave him again. 

[koops]

1 minute ago, DrWackaDoodle said:

I'm arguing that the train kiss came from a place of "I'll show her." It was only as his brain clicked, "hey, this isn't as icky as I imagined," that he moved in and placed his hands upon Amy's hips, deepening the kiss. I'll give you the "I love you," he said it first, however, an argument could be made for social convention. I'm certain that as a child it was drilled into him that when someone says, "I love you," you are expected to reply, "I love you too." As for coitus, in 8.24, Amy yelled at him, "after five years together, all I can get is a distracted makeout session on the couch?" It would be reasonable for Sheldon to believe that part of the reason Amy broke up with him is because their relationship wasn't physical at that point and that line was going through his head. He had just gotten her back in the previous episode and by sleeping with her, marking her as "his," giving her what she finally wanted (albeit once a year until recently) she would be less likely to leave him again. 

You are reading a whole bunch of things in his intentions that were never even hinted at on (or off) screen. Sheldon most definitely did not have sex with her just to keep her in the relationship. He already knew sex was not the reason for the breakup since in Platonic Permutation he asks if she has slept with anyone and she says no. And nothing in that episode, the ones that followed, or the interviews by the cast and crew said anything about that being even remotely a factor. He said ILY to her DESPITE Amy saying he didn't need to say it back and after she specifically mentioned social convention as one reason he shouldn't.

And waiting to be ready to make a step (especially for someone with as many hungups and issues as Sheldon), or realizing change isn't that bad, has nothing to do with commitment, in any case. The *only* thing that might have potentially made Sheldon's commitment a question is science. I think science might be the only thing that could give Sheldon pause when it comes to Amy. But other than the Mars thing, that was never really an issue. The writers have never made commitment the issue with Sheldon, just his slow pace. I understand the two can be confounded with each other, but they come from very different places. 

[littleknee]

Just want to weigh in on the “I love you scene” because it’s one of my favorite Shamy moments. The writers were so specific to have Amy saying, “I don’t want you to say it just because social convention dictates …” That was super deliberate to squash any sense of Sheldon reciprocating out of social responsibility. Also there is no mistaking how he looks at her in that scene. There’s a little head tilt he does when she walks towards him that is unmistakably full of love.

I know Sheldon is clueless about many things, but he knows how important this moment is and because he cares about Amy so much, he wouldn’t say it if he didn’t mean it. Also he says it twice more for good measure 

oh and he had a scientific justification for it ... the only conclusion was love ... i.e. he had thought about it before this moment. He knew. 

[Jonny]

17 minutes ago, littleknee said:

Just want to weigh in on the “I love you scene” because it’s one of my favorite Shamy moments. The writers were so specific to have Amy saying, “I don’t want you to say it just because social convention dictates …” That was super deliberate to squash any sense of Sheldon reciprocating out of social responsibility. Also there is no mistaking how he looks at her in that scene. There’s a little head tilt he does when she walks towards him that is unmistakably full of love.

I know Sheldon is clueless about many things, but he knows how important this moment is and because he cares about Amy so much, he wouldn’t say it if he didn’t mean it. Also he says it twice more for good measure 

They both try to show a lot of careful respect for the decisions or moments/making sure they are comfortable and that's great to see. Like your example with what Amy said with the ILY decleration. Then with the times they have had sex there is always a 'if you are ok with it, or are you sure you want to'. Then last week Sheldon wanted sex and asked her if she wanted it too and then they had the bit of dialogue about 'I am not using intimacy to stop you from leaving for Princeton'.

Just little small moments that are kind of unique to them and in sitcoms generally. I know Mayim had praised that about Shamy's relationship in articles in the past.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Jonny

[spidergirl]

6 minutes ago, Jonny said:

They both try to show a lot of careful respect for the decisions or moments/making sure they are comfortable and that's great to see. Like your example with what Amy said with the ILY decleration. Then with the times they have had sex there is always a 'if you are ok with it, or are you sure you want to'. Then last week Sheldon wanted sex and asked her if she wanted it too and then they had the bit of dialogue about 'I am not using intimacy to stop you from leaving for Princeton'.

Just little small moments that are kind of unique to them and in sitcoms generally. I know Mayim had praised that about their Shamy's relationship in articles in the past

I just love how much Mayim loves Amy and shamy.  Her article in Grok Nation was really beautilly writen. She is adorably protective of shamy. Love it!

Edited May 12, 2017 by spidergirl

[Jonny]

5 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I just love how much Mayim loves Amy and shamy.  Her article in Grok Nation was really beautilly writen. She is adorably protective of shamy. Love it!

I find it interesting to get her take on the show, truth be told I haven't always agreed with her takes lol but she provides an insight that few others can. I mean only the writers and cast can go into that sort of depth and know what they are trying to get across to the audience at times.

I loved her article about last night's episode though, makes total sense to me why she felt some of the things she did. She has played that character for a long time now and that relationship. Both Mayim and Jim do sound protective of the Shamy relationship and rightly so, they seem very proud of it. I get the impression they do have a friendship and not just a work colleague relationship as well so that adds to it.

The bit in the article about the cast and writers crying over it I can totally believe lol. It was a huge moment in the show's history.

[Capt. Hilts]

21 minutes ago, Jonny said:

They both try to show a lot of careful respect for the decisions or moments/making sure they are comfortable and that's great to see.

And the scene in Sheldon's bedroom when they discuss the parameters of sharing Penny's apt.

[Sah]

9 hours ago, April said:

It's green and grey. Green is willpower - the man is on a mission!

It's also the same shirt combo he wore in Earworm and we all know how that ended...

My favorite kiss!

[spidergirl]

 I have just rewatched the episode a few times and there is one moment that I can't  help myself as it cracks me up everytime I rewatch it, LOL!!

Our Amy was on fire for the Ramona thing and she was so right being like that! The bingo bang was priceless, LOL! Mayim was the queen last night with Kaley and Melissa. TBBT Girls get the power! 

Btw, I had myself  a kind of bingo bang moment too : summer of 2015. Found tbbt,  Sheldon Cooper and Amy Farrah Fowler. The rest is history, hehe! <3

Edited May 12, 2017 by spidergirl

[2L344]

9 hours ago, mirs1 said:

Also, him watching Spongebob during the flight as he had not one single worry in this world shows in a subtle way (as also Molaro underlined in one interview) he is proposing Amy for the right motivation, not out of guilt or something. The whole show pointed out times and again he is just as innocent as oblivious as always.

I pointed this tidbit out on the DT, but the episode he is watching (sad as it is that I know this from the brief clip we saw!) is "Plankton!" and basically has a naive Spongebob initially being duped by Mr. Krab's nemesis into believing he was a friend but in reality was a bad guy on a mission to use Spongebob. Coincidence, or the writers having a little fun with the premise of this episode?

 

[Capt. Hilts]

3 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

I pointed this tidbit out on the DT, but the episode he is watching (sad as it is that I know this from the brief clip we saw!) is "Plankton!" and basically has a naive Spongebob initially being duped by Mr. Krab's nemesis into believing he was a friend but in reality was a bad guy on a mission to use Spongebob. Coincidence, or the writers having a little fun with the premise of this episode?

 

Say what you like, boys and girls, but - to me - that's brilliant writing.

[April]

7 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

I pointed this tidbit out on the DT, but the episode he is watching (sad as it is that I know this from the brief clip we saw!) is "Plankton!" and basically has a naive Spongebob initially being duped by Mr. Krab's nemesis into believing he was a friend but in reality was a bad guy on a mission to use Spongebob. Coincidence, or the writers having a little fun with the premise of this episode?

I agree with @Capt. Hilts: This is such a brilliant detail, omg. I think I remember that episode from your description but it's been too long since I watched that show to catch the reference from the little snippet myself. So thank you for that!!! <3

[Jonny]

13 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

I pointed this tidbit out on the DT, but the episode he is watching (sad as it is that I know this from the brief clip we saw!) is "Plankton!" and basically has a naive Spongebob initially being duped by Mr. Krab's nemesis into believing he was a friend but in reality was a bad guy on a mission to use Spongebob. Coincidence, or the writers having a little fun with the premise of this episode?

 

Really impressive and very clever indeed. To put a small detail like that in the background with such meaning, just shows how much effort into their craft they put into that scene. Genius.

[mirs1]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

The bit in the article about the cast and writers crying over it I can totally believe lol. It was a huge moment in the show's history.

I've posted in the DT a video one of the writers' assistants took of the reactions in the live audience at the proposal. Here it is 

If you read the comment session there is a person who was at the taping and that saw Kaley actually crying at the end of the scene. I think that, as it happens for all the milestones in the show, this  moment  was really cherished by everyone!

Edited May 12, 2017 by mirs1

[2L344]

26 minutes ago, April said:

I agree with @Capt. Hilts: This is such a brilliant detail, omg. I think I remember that episode from your description but it's been too long since I watched that show to catch the reference from the little snippet myself. So thank you for that!!! <3

One of the reasons I remember it, aside from seeing it a million times, is because Plankton forces Spongrbob to call Squidward a "mediocre clarinet player" lol....best line ever on that show!

[Anita]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about the episode regarding shamy

I loved the episode in a general sense, and if Idon't  overthink the details I'm perfectly fine with it, so i'm going to separate my opinion in positive and negatives thougths:

- I have no doubt Sheldon is oblivious to ramona's advances ( with a but), he is not attracted to her in any form. 

- I'm not bothered by sheldon's reaction to the kiss, yes, it was longer that I expected therefore he had time to end it, but he was obviusly shocked and not everybody react in the same way to a shocking situation This morning I've seen my coworker stand still in the middle  of a crosswalk instead of run because  there was a car coming very fast  (don't worry, she is fine, the car stopped).

- I loved the excuse me  part and that he left directly to Amy.

- and the proposal, I'm totally fine with it, i think he is more than ready and he know it, i really think the real catalist to it was amy's departure and it was on his mind doing it at her return, ramona just has accelerated the moment.

-  so no, i think it's not out of guilt but out of love and ramona's kiss just ratified what he already knew it, there is no other woman however tall, blonde and ex swimmer she may be for him so, why wait?

-I still have not clear what I would like it to be amy's answer. A resounding yes right away would show confidence in sheldon, in his love, in his motives and in their relationship, and let him explain it later. But, as I said before not everybody react in the same way to a shocking situation, so a little panic attack and a delayed yes after an explanation is logical too.

My negative thoughts are all about oblivious sheldon, he was but he should be up to a that extent? I think he shoudn't:

-he is able to recognize that other scientist male can be a threat, so why he can't see it here after penny points it out to him?

- he didn' notice ramona is a woman? He, himself said amy awakened the sexual criature in him and noticed the pretty girls

-he is able to see leonard calling amy at night is inapropiate and not that ramona being in their apartament at the same hour is too? And why amy didn' tell him it is?

and in another note.

Ramona bought the toblerone in a duty free, in an aiport I guess, so she landed on Caltech with pursuing sheldon in her mind.

why penny got mad because Leonard did not describe ramona's looks to her, she did know her physically. 

 

-