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[Spoilers] Lenny:Season 10


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This episode was very hard for me to watch. I almost teared up watching Leonard (kudos to Johnny for that! I think his acting was great). The way I see it, he was really offended when Penny said he wasn't trying. Some reviewers blamed him for being defensive and confronting her, but I think he acted this way because he was genuinely hurt. I know she referred to the present situation but still, it felt like disregarding his past (huge) efforts, his reaction to me was more like "I have put so much effort into this relationship and it's still not enough for you?". I guess I felt quite offended for him too. Sure, Leonard burping and playing video games in his underwear isn't nice. And I get that she wants a romantic gesture once in a while. But she could tell him that gently and recognize that he had put so much effort while she had out very little. I'm sure he would have happily improve his behavior if she just told him "Leonard it has been a long time since you made a romantic gesture like the ones you used to do that I really enjoyed. I miss that and it makes me feel as if you are taking me for granted. I would be really happy if we try to get some romance back into our relationship". IMO it was clear that after hearing what she said he did recognize that he is becoming a little too comfortable and was willing to work this out. That is why he came to the Spa to talk to her. When they came to Shamy it was clear that both of them were willing to work out their problems, even if it means giving an RA a try. I still don't like the RA since I think they could just write some rules by themselves but I'll let it pass, I believe it was for the sake of comedy. I think one of the problems with this episode is the choice to make their conversation off-screen. IMO seeing them talking about their issues and deciding they want to make efforts to solve them would have made us feel better about the state of their relationship and their decision to try an RA. 

I still believe that things escalated this much because it is not only about their relationship. I don't think Leonard's behavior and recent decrease in efforts is enough to cause such hard feelings and such a fight. I think Penny is generally unhappy and is having a hard time figuring out why. In her fantasy she says she is so lucky to have him. Perhaps this is what she says to herself to cheer herself up, so realizing that Leonard doesn't do these gestures anymore takes away one of the few things that make her happy scared her and made her react strongly. Maybe in some part she was even scared for their relationship. In season 8 we found out that she thinks their relationship is, to great extent, dependent in him being infatuated with her. Her relationship and feeling desired by Leonard might have been what was keeping her well enough. I think she is used to be the object of desire. She didn't get to become an admired actress. Now her relationship is becoming more equal, Leonard is not chasing her as is she was a godess anymore. She was always the desired girl, ever since she was a kid and maybe that is the way she percieves herself. Maybe she never really figured out who she is and what she really wants.(This actually goes with Beverly's "external locus of identity" comment but I won't get into that, I already got to deep, I tend to do this, sorry :icon_redface:).

It seems like 10.15 could support my suggestions that Penny is unhappy not only, and not mainly, because of her relationship. Especially if they don't cut the "incomplete" line. Perhaps her saying that she wanted to take time in last night's episode supports it too - she didn't seem angry when she said that, maybe she realized there is something more than his behavior that made her react this way. Maybe she will finally find something (in the professional domain? family domain? romantic?) that will make her feel self-fulfilled. That is why I believe the RA can bring about something good: maybe next time Penny is distressed Leonard could bring it up and say she can't dismiss her feelings anymore. Than maybe she will finally discuss her feelings with him. I believe he can support her and help her sort things out better than her friends. Talking to him had made her gain important insights in the past (e.g, "The Gorilla DIssolution", "The Tangible Affection Proof", "he Separation Oscilliation", "The Tangerine Factor").  

Another positive poit for me: I really liked how she immediately signed that she is taking him "as is" with a loving smile :) (Tough I'm so tired of the "Penny settled for Leonard" theme, IMO he should have signed a similar clause, that woman has lots of problems that he knew about when proposing to her and when marrying her)

27 minutes ago, Earnie said:

That's the one thing Kaley says in interviews she loves the fact the writers treat them like a real couple with real problems

Actually I'm wondering how Johnny and Kaley feel about this episode. Did they even promote it? I don't follow them on Twitter/IG but I remember somebody posting her tweet/IG promoting "The Holiday Summation" aand can't remember any post with a tweet/IG from her promoting this one. 

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You say you want a Lenny Revolution ... Well, you know ... We all want to change the show ... You tell me that it's evolution ... Well, you know ... We all don't want the Shel

I've thinking a lot about Penny & Leonard over the last few days (okay. Full disclosure: I spend wayyyy too much time thinking about Leonard & Penny, but that's why I'm here, isn't it???!!??)

Yes on my way back in my Uber. When my head stops spinning, I'll be back! Loonngg day! But bloody fantastic experience Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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TBH I don't think the episode was even that bad. I thought Penny was too mean. But that could be an writing issue. I think they need to start harsheing Penny a bit. They did with Bernie when ppl complained she was too mean with Howard. I mean they dropped the "She's Easy" jokes. Other then one Sheldon made in 10.04. I don't think this episode was like Penny randomly accusing Leonard of these things. I Think it was building through out the season. Since the Comic Con episode. So it could of been underlying. Then she had that dream, so subconciousley it was always their. Then she wakes up to the reality of Leonard playing video games without a care in the world. Leonard did nothing wrong, let's just state that. This is all Penny's issue, she overreacted. But it also I Think comes from a place of a state of wanting. As absurd as it was. It is probably what they both needed, a kick up the backside. Penny to stop suppressing her emotions, and be mature about it. Leonard to not treat his marrage like a walk in service. Like texting Penny from the toilet, LOL. So you know both showed alot of growth in this episode.

I Do understand the most negative opinions on this episode and Lenny. But I Think it was neccessary. I mean it would be great if it was la de da drinking coffee at Central Perk. But this is real life :icon_cheesygrin:. I just think they need more balance. I am fine with them having issues in their marrage. But I think it gets a bit toxic as a viewer, when your not seeing love too.  Have a bit laughs in their too. The Tree Sequence was great. I Think they need to pace it out more too, and show better consistency. They are not an old married couple. They do not have kids. Lenny need to realize how good they have got it. And maybe Penny needs to find some career success, her passion. So it balances out her life with Leonard. 

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

This episode was very hard for me to watch. I almost teared up watching Leonard (kudos to Johnny for that! I think his acting was great). The way I see it, he was really offended when Penny said he wasn't trying. Some reviewers blamed him for being defensive and confronting her, but I think he acted this way because he was genuinely hurt. I know she referred to the present situation but still, it felt like disregarding his past (huge) efforts, his reaction to me was more like "I have put so much effort into this relationship and it's still not enough for you?". I guess I felt quite offended for him too. Sure, Leonard burping and playing video games in his underwear isn't nice. And I get that she wants a romantic gesture once in a while. But she could tell him that gently and recognize that he had put so much effort while she had out very little. I'm sure he would have happily improve his behavior if she just told him "Leonard it has been a long time since you made a romantic gesture like the ones you used to do that I really enjoyed. I miss that and it makes me feel as if you are taking me for granted. I would be really happy if we try to get some romance back into our relationship". IMO it was clear that after hearing what she said he did recognize that he is becoming a little too comfortable and was willing to work this out. That is why he came to the Spa to talk to her. When they came to Shamy it was clear that both of them were willing to work out their problems, even if it means giving an RA a try. I still don't like the RA since I think they could just write some rules by themselves but I'll let it pass, I believe it was for the sake of comedy. I think one of the problems with this episode is the choice to make their conversation off-screen. IMO seeing them talking about their issues and deciding they want to make efforts to solve them would have made us feel better about the state of their relationship and their decision to try an RA. 

I still believe that things escalated this much because it is not only about their relationship. I don't think Leonard's behavior and recent decrease in efforts is enough to cause such hard feelings and such a fight. I think Penny is generally unhappy and is having a hard time figuring out why. In her fantasy she says she is so lucky to have him. Perhaps this is what she says to herself to cheer herself up, so realizing that Leonard doesn't do these gestures anymore takes away one of the few things that make her happy scared her and made her react strongly. Maybe in some part she was even scared for their relationship. In season 8 we found out that she thinks their relationship is, to great extent, dependent in him being infatuated with her. Her relationship and feeling desired by Leonard might have been what was keeping her well enough. I think she is used to be the object of desire. She didn't get to become an admired actress. Now her relationship is becoming more equal, Leonard is not chasing her as is she was a godess anymore. She was always the desired girl, ever since she was a kid and maybe that is the way she percieves herself. Maybe she never really figured out who she is and what she really wants.(This actually goes with Beverly's "external locus of identity" comment but I won't get into that, I already got to deep, I tend to do this, sorry :icon_redface:).

It seems like 10.15 could support my suggestions that Penny is unhappy not only, and not mainly, because of her relationship. Especially if they don't cut the "incomplete" line. Perhaps her saying that she wanted to take time in last night's episode supports it too - she didn't seem angry when she said that, maybe she realized there is something more than his behavior that made her react this way. Maybe she will finally find something (in the professional domain? family domain? romantic?) that will make her feel self-fulfilled. That is why I believe the RA can bring about something good: maybe next time Penny is distressed Leonard could bring it up and say she can't dismiss her feelings anymore. Than maybe she will finally discuss her feelings with him. I believe he can support her and help her sort things out better than her friends. Talking to him had made her gain important insights in the past (e.g, "The Gorilla DIssolution", "The Tangible Affection Proof", "he Separation Oscilliation", "The Tangerine Factor").  

Another positive poit for me: I really liked how she immediately signed that she is taking him "as is" with a loving smile :) (Tough I'm so tired of the "Penny settled for Leonard" theme, IMO he should have signed a similar clause, that woman has lots of problems that he knew about when proposing to her and when marrying her)

Actually I'm wondering how Johnny and Kaley feel about this episode. Did they even promote it? I don't follow them on Twitter/IG but I remember somebody posting her tweet/IG promoting "The Holiday Summation" aand can't remember any post with a tweet/IG from her promoting this one. 

Hmm it seems Penny lashing out almost is a reflection of her projecting her own issues onto their marrage and Leonard. It's almost like her tolerance for anything. Is very limited. I agree with the posters saying boo hoo get over it Penny. She's got it good. So clearly Penny's immaturity is still a huge problem. So normally she prob wouldent gone all guns blazing. But she was clearly frustrated. And has been for a long time. Leonard could of helped. With actually being happy Penny was home. Hi. Boy that took some effort lol.

And I don't think the RA we'll be mentioned that much. We know it's not next episode. So not sure when they well use it. They don't next episode. What's interesting is Leomsrd accuses Penny of hiding her feelings. Yet Leonard is the one who does with the whole Randall thing. This arch was not as bad as the taping suggested. So I'm betting as one of the taping reporters, said next episode is not as rough. So I'm betting it well be fine. As for Johnny and Kaley promoting this episode. They may have been busy. Johnny Doesent promote the episodes ALOT. 

Edited by 3ku11

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

This episode was very hard for me to watch. I almost teared up watching Leonard (kudos to Johnny for that! I think his acting was great). The way I see it, he was really offended when Penny said he wasn't trying. Some reviewers blamed him for being defensive and confronting her, but I think he acted this way because he was genuinely hurt. I know she referred to the present situation but still, it felt like disregarding his past (huge) efforts, his reaction to me was more like "I have put so much effort into this relationship and it's still not enough for you?". I guess I felt quite offended for him too. Sure, Leonard burping and playing video games in his underwear isn't nice. And I get that she wants a romantic gesture once in a while. But she could tell him that gently and recognize that he had put so much effort while she had out very little. I'm sure he would have happily improve his behavior if she just told him "Leonard it has been a long time since you made a romantic gesture like the ones you used to do that I really enjoyed. I miss that and it makes me feel as if you are taking me for granted. I would be really happy if we try to get some romance back into our relationship". IMO it was clear that after hearing what she said he did recognize that he is becoming a little too comfortable and was willing to work this out. That is why he came to the Spa to talk to her. When they came to Shamy it was clear that both of them were willing to work out their problems, even if it means giving an RA a try. I still don't like the RA since I think they could just write some rules by themselves but I'll let it pass, I believe it was for the sake of comedy. I think one of the problems with this episode is the choice to make their conversation off-screen. IMO seeing them talking about their issues and deciding they want to make efforts to solve them would have made us feel better about the state of their relationship and their decision to try an RA. 

I still believe that things escalated this much because it is not only about their relationship. I don't think Leonard's behavior and recent decrease in efforts is enough to cause such hard feelings and such a fight. I think Penny is generally unhappy and is having a hard time figuring out why. In her fantasy she says she is so lucky to have him. Perhaps this is what she says to herself to cheer herself up, so realizing that Leonard doesn't do these gestures anymore takes away one of the few things that make her happy scared her and made her react strongly. Maybe in some part she was even scared for their relationship. In season 8 we found out that she thinks their relationship is, to great extent, dependent in him being infatuated with her. Her relationship and feeling desired by Leonard might have been what was keeping her well enough. I think she is used to be the object of desire. She didn't get to become an admired actress. Now her relationship is becoming more equal, Leonard is not chasing her as is she was a godess anymore. She was always the desired girl, ever since she was a kid and maybe that is the way she percieves herself. Maybe she never really figured out who she is and what she really wants.(This actually goes with Beverly's "external locus of identity" comment but I won't get into that, I already got to deep, I tend to do this, sorry :icon_redface:).

It seems like 10.15 could support my suggestions that Penny is unhappy not only, and not mainly, because of her relationship. Especially if they don't cut the "incomplete" line. Perhaps her saying that she wanted to take time in last night's episode supports it too - she didn't seem angry when she said that, maybe she realized there is something more than his behavior that made her react this way. Maybe she will finally find something (in the professional domain? family domain? romantic?) that will make her feel self-fulfilled. That is why I believe the RA can bring about something good: maybe next time Penny is distressed Leonard could bring it up and say she can't dismiss her feelings anymore. Than maybe she will finally discuss her feelings with him. I believe he can support her and help her sort things out better than her friends. Talking to him had made her gain important insights in the past (e.g, "The Gorilla DIssolution", "The Tangible Affection Proof", "he Separation Oscilliation", "The Tangerine Factor").  

Another positive poit for me: I really liked how she immediately signed that she is taking him "as is" with a loving smile :) (Tough I'm so tired of the "Penny settled for Leonard" theme, IMO he should have signed a similar clause, that woman has lots of problems that he knew about when proposing to her and when marrying her)

Actually I'm wondering how Johnny and Kaley feel about this episode. Did they even promote it? I don't follow them on Twitter/IG but I remember somebody posting her tweet/IG promoting "The Holiday Summation" aand can't remember any post with a tweet/IG from her promoting this one. 

There's an interview with Johnny and Entertainment Weekly posted by Vonmar in the Discussion Thread and Johnny talks about Leonard and Penny being "in a rough patch." He goes into a bit of detail about it and says they're working on it and he loves their scenes together.

But, obviously, he can't say he doesn't like it.

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Just now, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

There's an interview with Johnny and Entertainment Weekly posted by Vonmar in the Discussion Thread and Johnny talks about Leonard and Penny being "in a rough patch." He goes into a bit of detail about it and says they're working on it and he loves their scenes together.

But, obviously, he can't say he doesn't like it.

But he said he loves the scenes, so clearly he likes the scenes. 

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

But he said he loves the scenes, so clearly he likes the scenes. 

You could read that's as he loves working with Kaley not necessarily as he loves the material they have to work with. 

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10 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I seriously doubt that any of the actors would come out and criticize the writing or the direction of the show

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I seriously doubt they are allowed to contractually. What I get from the latest statements by Johnny and Kaley as well is  that they are willing to continue and placing pressure on TPTB in negotiations to make it happen. If it dosent they can honestly say they were willing but that management just wouldn't do what it takes to keep going.

Basically if it ends it wasn't their fault, and fans won't blame them which could impact any fan enthusiasm for their future projects. It's a smart move

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On 1/20/2017 at 3:13 AM, 5Mississippis said:

As am I. Ever since I watched the promo several days ago, I've stayed completely away because I have absolutely nothing positive to say. Now I really don't have anything to say. 

Maybe we can make a Lenny thread where the Shipper rules apply but we can be negative and rant? The Poop Deck? 

Anyway, I'll be in absentia as well. 

There is always room for you in the Lenny bunker, we have old tapes of classic lenny......  and cookies :icon_razz:

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I'm sure john and kaley are happy to be working and making the amount of money they do but i also think that deep down inside they would appreciate more screen time for their characters and better storylines

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27 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

but i also think that deep down inside they would appreciate more screen time for their characters and better storylines

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I'd really like to know what's making you say that.

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6 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I'm sure john and kaley are happy to be working and making the amount of money they do but i also think that deep down inside they would appreciate more screen time for their characters and better storylines

Yeah, I think that's a bit of a no-brainer. So I can totally see why Johnny would say that he loves the marriage drama cause it's the meatiest stuff he and Kaley have gotten in ages. And a huge part of why I enjoy even the drama episodes on this show is because it gives the actors a chance to show their skills. I thought both Johnny and Kaley did a great job with the latest episode - especially Johnny though! Kudos!

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17 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I'd really like to know what's making you say that.

The fact remains screen time has dwindled for Lenny and has storylines. Even Shamy fans like above have agreed. I mentioned this earlier but I cannot remember when Lenny was just the opening scene without Sheldon. The tag was also about them. Lenny fans will never reach a consensus about their like or dislike of this episode but they were the main focus. JMO but even the opening episode of this season many will remember more Sheldon and the families than Lenny themselves.

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8 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The fact remains screen time has dwindled for Lenny and has storylines. Even Shamy fans like above have agreed. I mentioned this earlier but I cannot remember when Lenny was just the opening scene without Sheldon. The tag was also about them. Lenny fans will never reach a consensus about their like or dislike of this episode but they were the main focus. JMO but even the opening episode of this season many will remember more Sheldon and the families than Lenny themselves.

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question why anyone would think Johnny doesn't like the scenes or the material he has to work with.

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3 hours ago, Chrismo said:

The fact remains screen time has dwindled for Lenny and has storylines. Even Shamy fans like above have agreed. I mentioned this earlier but I cannot remember when Lenny was just the opening scene without Sheldon. The tag was also about them. Lenny fans will never reach a consensus about their like or dislike of this episode but they were the main focus. JMO but even the opening episode of this season many will remember more Sheldon and the families than Lenny themselves.

I get the feeling that the writers assume that S10 is the last, therefore they fast-pace the Shamy relationship to the detriment of the other characters. Combine that with the fact that they also need to write material for Howardette and Raj and the 20 minute time frame for each episode, quality and quantity of Lenny plot remains rare. And what can you write when the usual is gone, the nerd-chases-hot-girl issue.

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Just now, son-goku5 said:

I get the feeling that the writers assume that S10 is the last, therefore they fast-pace the Shamy relationship to the detriment of the other characters. Combine that with the fact that they also need to write material for Howardette and Raj and the 20 minute time frame for each episode, quality and quantity of Lenny plot remains rare. And what can you write when the usual is gone, the nerd-chases-hot-girl issue.

...well we always have your fan fiction to read!

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I seriously doubt that any of the actors would come out and criticize the writing or the direction of the show

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Not necessarily criticism, but I remember when Shamy were broken up, both Jim and Mayim expressed that they they didn't like it. They said they wish they were back together again. So yeah, I think they can say if they don't like the plot as long as it's not disrespectful to the writers.

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2 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I am not a lenny  but I 'd like to say I am rooting for everything goes well to them as it used to be. And I 'd like to say that I loved Kaley and Johnny's performances in last episode, especially Johnny's.  The love Leonard feels for Penny is something powerfull and beautiful  that Johnny performs so well and the character's pain  this week was so well done by him that I felt teary eyed when he was in car in his way to spa for talk to her because Leonard could not be two days without trying to fix things between him and his wife.

Just my two cents about the love story of tbbt that I admire since pilot.  Hope you dont mind my word about it. :)

Thank you, spidergirl, for a heartfelt tribute to our Lenny and the amazing actors who have brought them to life.:giverose:

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Lennys pretty much just going through what every young married couple goes through. I found it realistic. But not disengaging at all. I'm not sure what was wrong with their plot per say. I thought Penny's dream was coming all season. But I also thought she was too harsh with Leonard. But I also understood Penny's pov. When Penny walked in. And Leonard was like Hi. Like something on the Tele was more interesting then greeting his wife lol. So I think both probably contribute to the argument. But I think Penny's immaturity is severely imbalancing the relationship. Pretty much still the same Lenny since Any season really. Just those other phases of their timeline have come and gone. And now they have to deal new complications and challenges that are a marrage begins. It's a new model, and it's pretty temperamental. But it's still pretty, and it's Nice to look at. And it still performs. 

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3 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Lennys pretty much just going through what every young married couple goes through. I found it realistic. 

Really?  My wife and I didn't go through anything like that, even 20-30 years into our marriage (we hit forty this year and we haven't had anything like this).  At what point in your marriage did this happen to you, that you found it so realistic?  

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32 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I am not a lenny  but I 'd like to say I am rooting for everything goes well to them as it used to be. And I 'd like to say that I loved Kaley and Johnny's performances in last episode, especially Johnny's.  The love Leonard feels for Penny is something powerfull and beautiful  that Johnny performs so well and the character's pain  this week was so well done by him that I felt teary eyed when he was in car in his way to spa for talk to her because Leonard could not be two days without trying to fix things between him and his wife.

Just my two cents about the love story of tbbt that I admire since pilot.  Hope you dont mind my word about it. :)

That's exactly the part that almost made me tear up! So subtle yet so well performed, I really felt for him throughout the whole episode. Kaley gave similar vibes too, especially after the fight. These two are so much in sync, I think this is one of the reasons the Lenny relationship is so powerfull and engaging <3

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