Tripper

[Spoilers] Non-Season 10 Show Discussion

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Posted

I think the problem is they don't show why Lenny do make it, it is there but remains under the surface. What is above their surface and is overly emphasized IMO is their differences and their clashes. I think "The Comic-Con Conundrum" is a nice example, that was an episode with a fight that I actually liked and I remember commenting about it at lenght in the Lenny thread. On the surface, they were clashing because of their differences in hobbies and interests. However, I think an important cause was actually their similarities. Each didn't want the other to suffe, each didn't want to hurt the other by saying what they thought outright and each was willing to make compromises for the others' sake. If one of them had a different attitude it wouldn't take so long for the whole thing to be over. I'm not saying it's a bad thing! I think it holds these similarities hold them together, "opposites attract" cases are rare and I think Lenny are NOT one of those cases. Yet, things aren't so simple and sometimes things that play mostly in your favor can also raise problems, especially when they interact with other things like in this case their different interests and hobbies. We have also seen Lenny communicate well, we have seen them stick with each other in spite of the challenges that being with the other brings. Examples include Penny's insecurities and commitment issues that required Leonard to deal with her sometimes pushing him away and wait for her to be ready to get married ("The Tangible Affectin Proof" shows both the problem and the coping. Other demostrations include "The Bad Fish Paradigm". "The Weaton Recurrence", perhaps "The Decoupling Fluctuation", "The 43 Peculiarity"); and Leonard's anxieties, insecurities and low self image that require Penny to deal with his need for approval, pressure and doubts ("The Wheaton Recurrence", "The Date Night Variable", "The Fetal Kick Catalyst", "The Escape Hatch Identification", "The Cognitive Regeneration" - this one also showing the coping). So my point is: IMO, Lenny have things going for them, I only mentioned some. As I see it, one of the prbolems nowadays is that their difficulties are overly emphasized (another problem being some of these difficulties not making sense charcter and story wise) and their strenghts are not shown or overlooked (another problem being some of them seem to be forgotten at times).

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I think the problem is they don't show why Lenny do make it, it is there but remains under the surface. What is above their surface and is overly emphasized IMO is their differences and their clashes. I think "The Comic-Con Conundrum" is a nice example, that was an episode with a fight that I actually liked and I remember commenting about it at lenght in the Lenny thread. On the surface, they were clashing because of their differences in hobbies and interests. However, I think an important cause was actually their similarities. Each didn't want the other to suffe, each didn't want to hurt the other by saying what they thought outright and each was willing to make compromises for the others' sake. If one of them had a different attitude it wouldn't take so long for the whole thing to be over. I'm not saying it's a bad thing! I think it holds these similarities hold them together, "opposites attract" cases are rare and I think Lenny are NOT one of those cases. Yet, things aren't so simple and sometimes things that play mostly in your favor can also raise problems, especially when they interact with other things like in this case their different interests and hobbies. We have also seen Lenny communicate well, we have seen them stick with each other in spite of the challenges that being with the other brings. Examples include Penny's insecurities and commitment issues that required Leonard to deal with her sometimes pushing him away and wait for her to be ready to get married ("The Tangible Affectin Proof" shows both the problem and the coping. Other demostrations include "The Bad Fish Paradigm". "The Weaton Recurrence", perhaps "The Decoupling Fluctuation", "The 43 Peculiarity"); and Leonard's anxieties, insecurities and low self image that require Penny to deal with his need for approval, pressure and doubts ("The Wheaton Recurrence", "The Date Night Variable", "The Fetal Kick Catalyst", "The Escape Hatch Identification", "The Cognitive Regeneration" - this one also showing the coping). So my point is: IMO, Lenny have things going for them, I only mentioned some. As I see it, one of the prbolems nowadays is that their difficulties are overly emphasized (another problem being some of these difficulties not making sense charcter and story wise) and their strenghts are not shown or overlooked (another problem being some of them seem to be forgotten at times).

I see where you are coming from they have been shown to care for each other and not wanting to hurt each other's feelings but a lot of it seems to come from lack of communication and if they talked more and be honest with each other, they wouldn't have to feel that way. I know it's a sitcom, but i just can't buy it that a relationship written so badly on purpose can survive the critics. All I see and what tptb wants us to believe now is Lenny as a couple do not like hanging out with each other or want to do things together. When they are shown to take zero interest in each other or hobbies, and don’t know what’s happening in each other’s everyday lives, is reflective of how little they both care and tptb. Quality time can mean a number of things.That might mean, cooking together, go on hikes, take a weekend getaway, or just sit on the couch and read alongside each other. Lenny are not doing any of these heartwarming things together or anymore, it's like the writers want us to believe, they don’t even like spending time together or when they do, Penny is constantly playing with her phone or rolling her eyes. I know it's harmless. I'm not saying it's all being down hill, just that there has been way more down than up. if that’s all Lenny do when they are in the same room, the mind wonders. As a big lenny fan i'm at the stage where I've got to question the relationship and where it's heading? if there’s anything meaningful left between them? Is this a sign that they would rather be somewhere else without the other half? Part of being in a relationship is approaching life as a team and making joint decisions on things that pop up in life. Be it good or bad and work on it, instead of fighting or putting down each other all the time.
Apathy can be just as strong as hate, and is tptb given us a clear sign that their relationship is in the ending stage.





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1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:


I see where you are coming from they have been shown to care for each other and not wanting to hurt each other's feelings but a lot of it seems to come from lack of communication and if they talked more and be honest with each other, they wouldn't have to feel that way. I know it's a sitcom, but i just can't buy it that a relationship written so badly on purpose can survive the critics. All I see and what tptb wants us to believe now is Lenny as a couple do not like hanging out with each other or want to do things together. When they are shown to take zero interest in each other or hobbies, and don’t know what’s happening in each other’s everyday lives, is reflective of how little they both care and tptb. Quality time can mean a number of things.That might mean, cooking together, go on hikes, take a weekend getaway, or just sit on the couch and read alongside each other. Lenny are not doing any of these heartwarming things together or anymore, it's like the writers want us to believe, they don’t even like spending time together or when they do, Penny is constantly playing with her phone or rolling her eyes. I know it's harmless. I'm not saying it's all being down hill, just that there has been way more down than up. if that’s all Lenny do when they are in the same room, the mind wonders. As a big lenny fan i'm at the stage where I've got to question the relationship and where it's heading? if there’s anything meaningful left between them? Is this a sign that they would rather be somewhere else without the other half? Part of being in a relationship is approaching life as a team and making joint decisions on things that pop up in life. Be it good or bad and work on it, instead of fighting or putting down each other all the time.
Apathy can be just as strong as hate, and is tptb given us a clear sign that their relationship is in the ending stage.





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3 hours ago, bfm said:

I think "The Comic-Con Conundrum" is a nice example, that was an episode with a fight that I actually liked and I remember commenting about it at lenght in the Lenny thread. On the surface, they were clashing because of their differences in hobbies and interests. However, I think an important cause was actually their similarities. Each didn't want the other to suffe, each didn't want to hurt the other by saying what they thought outright and each was willing to make compromises for the others' sake. some of them seem to be forgotten at times).

If it were real life they'd be heading for worse than a breakup. A moment in the last Lenny scene of The Comic-Con Conundrum dramatised what's wrong.  Penny excitedly said "White-water rafting!" and Leonard suggested something weedy as a compromise. He failed to recognise  a turning-point moment in their relationship where he needed to step up and do the scary thing that would make Penny happy. If he couldn't tell from her face and manner how disappointed she'd be, not just at missing out on WWR but in him, then he doesn't deserve her.

More generally it's made to appear that Leonard thinks he's secure now he's married to Penny and he doesn't need to try any more to make their relationship special. That way what could have been a wonderful marriage will become a mundane one. If Penny walked out now KC would make it a literal tear-jerker. Worse would be if poor Penny didn't feel she could start her life over again and settled for what Leonard could be bothered to give her. The most dispiriting outcome possible.

If Penny walked out and the show foregrounded Leonard's effort to get her back that would make a great season, but that's not going to happen to the Shamy Show.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

 

If it were real life they'd be heading for worse than a breakup. A moment in the last Lenny scene of The Comic-Con Conundrum dramatised what's wrong.  Penny excitedly said "White-water rafting!" and Leonard suggested something weedy as a compromise. He failed to recognise  a turning-point moment in their relationship where he needed to step up and do the scary thing that would make Penny happy. If he couldn't tell from her face and manner how disappointed she'd be, not just at missing out on WWR but in him, then he doesn't deserve her.

More generally it's made to appear that Leonard thinks he's secure now he's married to Penny and he doesn't need to try any more to make their relationship special. That way what could have been a wonderful marriage will become a mundane one. If Penny walked out now KC would make it a literal tear-jerker. Worse would be if poor Penny didn't feel she could start her life over again and settled for what Leonard could be bothered to give her. The most dispiriting outcome possible.

If Penny walked out and the show foregrounded Leonard's effort to get her back that would make a great season, but that's not going to happen to the Shamy Show.

I don't think it is this bad... Leonard would get sea sick in this water rafting thing and it would not end well for both of them...He had just gave up Comic-Con there was no need to take it to something that he is completely incapable of doing. I took it as just a little comic moment. You do have a point about Leonard having to try harder but should he do every single thing she desires? There are two people in a relationship and they both need to compromise and invest efforts in their relationship. I don't see Penny as such a poor woman becuase her husband wouldn't do every single thing she wants. 

Edited by bfm

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Posted

Just caught something, on "The Apology Insufficiency", which is airing on our local channel tonight.    Raj and Neil deGrasse Tyson are talking, standing in front of a door, when Sheldon walks up.  The nameplate on the door says:

Ann Shea  PhD Astrophysics.  

Ann Shea is the set decorator for the show.  

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