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Ki22

There has never been NOTHING

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Everything has always been and will always be in one way, shape,form, or another.

The Big Bang came from somethingness not nothingness.

Discuss....

(play time!)

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Cats ARE just little people, with fur coats!

However,  when living things end they decay and become smaller pieces of the whole, of the something broken down, but not nothing...the cycle of somthingness simply begins again.

Again no such thing as NOTHING.

Edited by Ki22
comma

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OK, try this.

What occupied the space where the universe is, before the universe was there?

Also, what is beyond the universe?

Edited by Stephen Hawking
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Try HIIIISSSSSSS...

The Universe does not have to be something we can measure.....Just because we can take stock of "things" now does not mean that all of existence did not already exist before measurable things came into our sight.   Our perception and our technology....based on our perception....is very limited and is not the end all, be all, of existence.

Love the cat thing....why don't people understand?

What we can't do is think of things outside of CONTAINMENT.....What if there is no containment....infinity.   Like a fractal.

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13 minutes ago, Ki22 said:

What we can't do is think of things outside of CONTAINMENT.....What if there is no containment....infinity.   Like a fractal.

But the universe is expending.

What is it expending into?

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But the universe is expending.

What is it expending into?

It will continue to expand until it can't anymore and will implode on itself at some point in time. Just how it started, that's how it will end. Nothingness.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

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15 hours ago, Ki22 said:

Everything has always been and will always be in one way, shape,form, or another.

The Big Bang came from somethingness not nothingness.

Discuss....

(play time!)

Who can say what "somethingness" much less how and why? 

It appears that the universe was entirely different just after the big bang than today. So different that this alone is a great deal to ponder.

Edited by djsurrey
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The Physical Universe (stuff we can measure) is expanding and may have limits...But....I do not believe that is the end all be all of existence... I believe there is a fundamental something...that has no limit and is beginningless and endless...Just existence.  This would BE simple and complex and not contained.   play......

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1 hour ago, Ki22 said:

The Physical Universe (stuff we can measure) is expanding and may have limits...But....I do not believe that is the end all be all of existence... I believe there is a fundamental something...that has no limit and is beginningless and endless...Just existence.  This would BE simple and complex and not contained.   play......

I believe that it's expanding into a big blob of yogurt.  But what I believe is of no matter, it's what I have evidence for.    As everything we can measure is part of the universe, we can never know what is outside, or indeed if there is anything outside our universe.  

As for nothing, define what you mean by nothing.   No mass?  No energy?  Since they are equivalent, does it matter?  What about less than nothing?  There is something called the negative energy condition, how does that fit in with your definition of nothing?

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20 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

But the universe is expending.

What is it expending into?

That would be a pickle if we only had Newton.

Observation just says space is expanding, everywhere. That would not make any sense without general relativity. http://skyserver.sdss.org/dr1/en/astro/universe/universe.asp

There is no edge that can be observed. Also, there is no preferred direction. The Hubble telescope sees distant older objects in all directions. The more distant the further back in time the origin of the light. The older less expanded universe is in every direction and now far away even though the universe was small to start with.

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On 8/1/2016 at 1:38 AM, Tensor said:

 

I believe that it's expanding into a big blob of yogurt.  But what I believe is of no matter, it's what I have evidence for.    As everything we can measure is part of the universe, we can never know what is outside, or indeed if there is anything outside our universe.  

As for nothing, define what you mean by nothing.   No mass?  No energy?  Since they are equivalent, does it matter?  What about less than nothing?  There is something called the negative energy condition, how does that fit in with your definition of nothing?

LOVE yogurt!!!!  I am not talking about our Universe as being OUTSIDE....rather part of an extreme whole...EXISTENCE.   Negative is still something.....can it act and react?  Does it interact?   It is not Nothing...It is SOMETHING!....loving this!  Think of our Universe as a burp in the grand scheme of things....play!

Edited by Ki22
addition

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I go back to the original statement..."There is no such thing as (NOTHING).   Everything has always been and will always be in way, shape, form or another."   (This is NOT connected to any religion. )  play...ki

 

Edited by Ki22
commas

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3 hours ago, Ki22 said:

LOVE yogurt!!!!  I am not talking about our Universe as being OUTSIDE....rather part of an extreme whole...EXISTENCE.   Negative is still something.....can it act and react?  Does it interact?   It is not Nothing...It is SOMETHING!....loving this!  Think of our Universe as a burp in the grand scheme of things....play!

Heheheheheh, solopsism at it's finest.  Doesn't  a lot of this depends on whether or not you subscribe to a metaphysical philosophy or you look at the world as more of an empiricist?  Even there, are you and inductivist, a deductivist, or an abductivist?

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  If (and I'm sure most of us agree there is) a speed of light, and given the fact (?) of negative energy, shouldn't there also be a speed of dark ?

 Just wondering.

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1 hour ago, Stephen Hawking said:

An "abductivist"?

Sounds like a PC name for a kidnapper. :laugh: 

Using the simplest explanation, even though it may not be the only one.  For example, if all I ever see are birds flying, then one of my premises could be "all birds fly".  It may well not be the sole premise, but it could be one.  It's very handy in Bayesian Statistics, in determining possible prior distributions.

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  If (and I'm sure most of us agree there is) a speed of light, and given the fact (?) of negative energy, shouldn't there also be a speed of dark ?

 Just wondering.

Well as soon as you turn off your light switch it dark so darkness would travel at the same speed of light.

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Since darkness is merely the absence of light, I don't see(!) how it could be said to have a speed.

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28 minutes ago, gsxdoug said:

Since darkness is merely the absence of light, I don't see(!) how it could be said to have a speed.

But we know dark matter exist. Well we think it does. Its is alleged it can travel faster than light. Just because we can't see it and measure it doesn’t mean it hasn't got a speed. With the trillions and trillions of stars out there, why is the universe 90% dark and invincible? Just like light it's travelling but darkness can be detected but not measured. Yet.

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Edited by Tonstar17

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"Darkness" and "Dark Matter" aren't the same thing, and you specifically used the example of turning out the lights.

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turning on the lights. Instant light. Turning off the lights instant darkness. Light travels at the speed of light why not darkness.

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Edit. You used the example of darkness being the absent of light. Isn't that the same with light being the absent of darkness. Example. Dark side of the moon. It's called that for a reason, just like the side we see that gets light from the sun. Just saying if light has a speed why not darkness. We can measure light but we can't darkness because we can't see its energy. like a black hole, at the point where light can't escape it's velocity we ease to be able to measure it cause we can't see it anymore.

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  If the theory of a "black hole" can suck up everything into it, including light, or at least bend it (this is by no means my field of study), then couldn't there be a "white hole" that sucks up dark ? 

Edited by walnutcowboy

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4 minutes ago, walnutcowboy said:

  If the theory of a "black hole" can suck up everything into it, including light, or at least bend it (this is by no means my field of study), then couldn't there be a "white hole" that sucks up dark ? 

Actually, a white hole spews out mass and energy.  This makes it very bright, hence the "white". 

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