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On 8/3/2016 at 1:31 PM, walnutcowboy said:

  If (and I'm sure most of us agree there is) a speed of light, and given the fact (?) of negative energy, shouldn't there also be a speed of dark ?

 Just wondering.

Speed of Dark = Speed of Light.

It's night, and when you look up at the sky you see light from light emitting bodies, and light reflecting bodies. Let's focus on the planets. 

Each planet is a different distance from the sun, and it takes longer for light to reach the outer most planets.

If you can observe the reflections from Mars, and Neptune, and the sun suddenly goes dark, which planet will lose illumination first, and how long after that will the 2nd lose illumination? 

Edited by Retired CreativeGenius
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Ok....I was off of work that day and I saw it play out on the news....I was in shock for the next few months...  I felt guilty going back to recreational T.V. and listening to music instead of am news...911 I remember.

OK...

 

On 9/4/2016 at 3:11 AM, Ki22 said:

Ok...Dark or Light MATTER....you are talking about subjects that maybe measurable.  I am talking about an infinite ALL that our UNIVERSE exists in.   Our Universe is finite... Existence is the all .  

Metaphor...your "life" on EARTH is like our UNIVERSE  in EXISTENCE.   You are a unique piece of matter...you exist in a specific point of existence.   You are a tiny part of the whole of Existence.   Our Universe is a tiny part of  the whole of EXISTENCE.

I know it is a strange concept....but , I think it true.

Play...

ki

Resume PLAY!

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On 04/09/2016 at 1:34 PM, Retired CreativeGenius said:

If you can observe the reflections from Mars, and Neptune, and the sun suddenly goes dark, which planet will lose illumination first, and how long after that will the 2nd lose illumination? 

The normal reason for the sun going dark on earth is an eclipse of the sun because of a shadow cast by the moon. If the sun suddenly went dark for some other reason no one would be looking at Mars or Neptune. Our lives depend on light and energy from the sun.

It takes a little over 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach the earth. http://www.universetoday.com/15021/how-long-does-it-take-sunlight-to-reach-the-earth/

There is a table for each planet given at http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/venus/q89.html

Planet           Distance in AU            Travel time
....................................................................
Mercury              0.387        193.0 seconds   or    3.2 minutes
Venus                0.723        360.0 seconds   or    6.0 minutes
Earth                1.000        499.0 seconds   or    8.3 minutes
Mars                 1.523        759.9 seconds   or   12.6 minutes
Jupiter              5.203       2595.0 seconds   or   43.2 minutes
Saturn               9.538       4759.0 seconds   or   79.3 minutes
Uranus              19.819       9575.0 seconds   or  159.6 minutes
Neptune             30.058      14998.0 seconds   or    4.1 hours
Pluto               39.44       19680.0 seconds   or    5.5 hours
....................................................................

The actual time it would take for a reflection from a planet to reach earth would also depend on the relative positions of the planets in their orbits. One could assume the planet was full (so the sun earth  and planet were in a straight line to give a minimum time for the reflection to reach the earth). So the chart tells us it would take 12.6 minutes for light to get from the sun to mars and then if the sun, earth and mars were lined up it would take another 12.6-8.3 = 4.3 minutes for the reflection to get back to earth. It would take longer for the reflected light to get back to earth if the alignment was not so good. Neptune is another thing all together. It takes more than 4 hours just for light to get to Neptune. Around 8 hours for the light to get from the sun to Neptune and back to earth.

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11 hours ago, Tensor said:

Yes, but what about the shadow of planet, at a distance?  At what speed, for example, is the shadow of the earth moving at the orbit of Neptune?  

The moon can eclipse the sun as seen on earth only because the moon is much closer to the earth than it is to the sun. When Venus made a transit of the sun recently it looked like a sun spot from earth. The disk of venus is tiny compared to the disk of the sun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_Venus

I only brought up an eclipse because that is the only way we ever see the sun go dark. That of course has no effect on the light reaching mars or neptune. 

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1 hour ago, walnutcowboy said:

 So if the sun goes out and it takes 8 minutes to reach Europe, and Nevada, USA, is eight or nine hours later then Europe, then I still have time to get candles and batteries for my flashlights.

 Just saying.

Good one. :icon_lol:

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Yeah, we never see the present, we can only see the past, how the object was when the light started its journey from whatever we are looking at.  It's just the travel time is normally so short, we don't think about it. 

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It's like the stars in the sky. We are seeing them as they looked billions of years ago as the light reaches our eyes. It's amazing that they don't exist any more as most have gone supernova. we are just looking into the past. The universe could have ended or imploded on itself but just waiting for it to catch up on us.

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I think we'd know, if the universe had imploded.


Not necessary. It will take billions of years for it to reach us that's why when we look to the stars we are looking into the past. The stars we see in the sky now are what they looked like billions of years ago as the light is only reaching us now.

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But, wouldn't we notice a change in things like gravity, atmospheric pressure, etc. ?


Nope. Only when it gets close to us then we probably start to feel the signs and effects. More Earthquakes, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions than usual and the night sky brighter than normal. Meteorite strikes. etc The point is, it will take a few million years to reach us because the universe is massive and will be travelling at the speed of light so the destruction will not happen all at once because time is a factor.

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3 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

But, wouldn't we notice a change in things like gravity, atmospheric pressure, etc. ?

You could look at some of the answers here:

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/235450/do-gravitational-waves-travel-faster-than-light

Gravity waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum c. In general information about things that happen at some distant place travels at the speed of light c. 

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On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:37 AM, djsurrey said:

The normal reason for the sun going dark on earth is an eclipse of the sun because of a shadow cast by the moon. If the sun suddenly went dark for some other reason no one would be looking at Mars or Neptune. Our lives depend on light and energy from the sun.

It takes a little over 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach the earth. http://www.universetoday.com/15021/how-long-does-it-take-sunlight-to-reach-the-earth/

There is a table for each planet given at http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/venus/q89.html

Planet           Distance in AU            Travel time
....................................................................
Mercury              0.387        193.0 seconds   or    3.2 minutes
Venus                0.723        360.0 seconds   or    6.0 minutes
Earth                1.000        499.0 seconds   or    8.3 minutes
Mars                 1.523        759.9 seconds   or   12.6 minutes
Jupiter              5.203       2595.0 seconds   or   43.2 minutes
Saturn               9.538       4759.0 seconds   or   79.3 minutes
Uranus              19.819       9575.0 seconds   or  159.6 minutes
Neptune             30.058      14998.0 seconds   or    4.1 hours
Pluto               39.44       19680.0 seconds   or    5.5 hours
....................................................................

The actual time it would take for a reflection from a planet to reach earth would also depend on the relative positions of the planets in their orbits. One could assume the planet was full (so the sun earth  and planet were in a straight line to give a minimum time for the reflection to reach the earth). So the chart tells us it would take 12.6 minutes for light to get from the sun to mars and then if the sun, earth and mars were lined up it would take another 12.6-8.3 = 4.3 minutes for the reflection to get back to earth. It would take longer for the reflected light to get back to earth if the alignment was not so good. Neptune is another thing all together. It takes more than 4 hours just for light to get to Neptune. Around 8 hours for the light to get from the sun to Neptune and back to earth.

Cripes!  :icon_eek:

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On 9/15/2016 at 10:40 PM, walnutcowboy said:

 So if the sun goes out and it takes 8 minutes to reach Europe, and Nevada, USA, is eight or nine hours later then Europe, then I still have time to get candles and batteries for my flashlights.

 Just saying.

So....you will be able to "see yourself" as you are freezing to death and dying.....Kudos!

On 9/18/2016 at 2:59 PM, Tonstar17 said:


Nope. Only when it gets close to us then we probably start to feel the signs and effects. More Earthquakes, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions than usual and the night sky brighter than normal. Meteorite strikes. etc The point is, it will take a few million years to reach us because the universe is massive and will be travelling at the speed of light so the destruction will not happen all at once because time is a factor.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
 

oh...wait a second..........

Chaos @ heart!

Edited by Ki22
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13 minutes ago, Ki22 said:

So....you will be able to "see yourself" as you are freezing to death and dying.....Kudos!

oh...wait a second..........

Chaos @ heart!

Sheldon's Mom may be a bit wacked, but she and I will be in the same place before all this happens !!

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On 8/2/2016 at 10:07 PM, Tensor said:

Heheheheheh, solopsism at it's finest.  Doesn't  a lot of this depends on whether or not you subscribe to a metaphysical philosophy or you look at the world as more of an empiricist?  Even there, are you and inductivist, a deductivist, or an abductivist?

Not abductivist...can be both inductive and deductive.   Philosophy major....in my yout.

 

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On 9/14/2016 at 11:37 PM, djsurrey said:

The normal reason for the sun going dark on earth is an eclipse of the sun because of a shadow cast by the moon. If the sun suddenly went dark for some other reason no one would be looking at Mars or Neptune. Our lives depend on light and energy from the sun.

SNIP table

The actual time it would take for a reflection from a planet to reach earth would also depend on the relative positions of the planets in their orbits. One could assume the planet was full (so the sun earth  and planet were in a straight line to give a minimum time for the reflection to reach the earth). So the chart tells us it would take 12.6 minutes for light to get from the sun to mars and then if the sun, earth and mars were lined up it would take another 12.6-8.3 = 4.3 minutes for the reflection to get back to earth. It would take longer for the reflected light to get back to earth if the alignment was not so good. Neptune is another thing all together. It takes more than 4 hours just for light to get to Neptune. Around 8 hours for the light to get from the sun to Neptune and back to earth.

 The Normal Reason is irrelevant. This is a hypothetical event.

You don't need that much detail as the position of Mars cannot cause it to remain illuminated while Neptune goes dark. The question was very simple, and the answer is very simple. Mars will go dark first, Neptune will follow.

If you remember when they were bouncing laser pulses off the moon, the dark and light pulses maintain their relative distance and size through a vacuum unless they are affected by the Doppler Effect. 

Edited by Retired CreativeGenius
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On 9/18/2016 at 0:40 PM, Stephen Hawking said:

But, wouldn't we notice a change in things like gravity, atmospheric pressure, etc. ?

Since the Implosion isn't likely to eject mass, gravity shouldn't be affected.

For the implosion to affect atmospheric pressure, you would need an atmosphere in what is now space. The vacuum of space protects us. 

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