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1001 The Conjugal Conjecture (September 19)


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On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 6:31 PM, jenafan said:

Here is my thinking, perhaps far fetched, but I'll go with it.

Similar to domesticated turkeys, who lack skills to survive in an unprotected environment,  Sheldon has been confined, granted by his own will, and lacks the skills and experience to navigate the social aspects of life.

Turkeys are very intelligent, but have limited sight.  When bred in captivity, they panic when faced with the unfamiliar.  They will makes efforts in an attempt to escape and possibly injure other turkeys in the process.  If they encounter rain before learning how to live in the environment, in an attempt to see beyond their field of vision, they hold their heads up and mouths open.  This causes them to drown in the process.

So, like Turkeys, Sheldon is intelligent, but when faced with uncomfortable social situations he is unfamiliar with, he panics.   In an attempt to escape the situation and bring things back to his comfort level, he verbally injures those around him and and/or makes things awkward.  He risks killing whatever social life he has because he can't keep his mouth shut!

In the minds of Penny's family, they think Sheldon is as dumb as a turkey drowning himself rather than just seeking shelter out of the rain.

Superb explanation. I understand now. Thank you

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Guest sladenoddy
On 9/20/2016 at 7:24 PM, 5Mississippis said:

I found the episode disappointing. At the start of the episode, we find that Alfred and Mary just shared a cab ride and conversations but that didn't stop the barrage of 'old people having sex jokes' from Sheldon that truly annoyed and seemed to dominate the episode. That got lame real fast and didn't rise to the occasion (see what I did there).

Was truly disappointed in Susan, Penny's mother. We have been given only a few snippets of her through the years but it seems to me that a 'pot smoking while pregnant' woman who had a daughter that 'shot her husband' (they were both drunk was the dismissive excuse) and took her son 'out drinking to celebrate his sobriety' spent waaaay too much time through the episode worrying what other people might think of her. IMO, it would have been funnier if Susan HAD happily acted as we have been led to believe, a Trailer Park Queen, and it would have clashed nicely with Bev's stick-up-the-butt elitism and condescending propriety. If they had written Penny to be profoundly embarrassed by her mother, between the two, it could possibly have given us fun moments. But nah. Katey Sagal's talent was not used and her role was reduced to an un-fun shrieking harpy. 

My only LOL moment was Randall's 'well what color trash do you think they would believe?'

Really loved that both Leonard's parents actually said something nice about him.

Liked that the writers had Bernadette used the word 'snarky' to describe the behaviors during the wedding. That struck me as an interesting word to use as quite a few Lenny's have used that word repeatedly for Penny's behavior/attitude towards Leonard this past season. 

Sheldon's insertion into the ceremony, totally unnecessary, like all Sheldon's insertions into Lenny's lives. 

This whole episode stuck me as Lenny fan service. TPTB must have known about the overwhelming negative responses from fans regarding Nuptials #1 so this was given to us to make nice. I personally HATED Nuptials #1 so now between that and Nuptials #2, in my mind, I've cobbled together a nice little wedding for them. And I'm sure, for Lenny, this will never be revisited. The 'Lenny Nuptials' have been officially put to bed -- with Sheldon in the adjoining room. 

yes I just could not believe that they would have that jerk Sheldon ruin it again?, do these writers and producers ever listen?

and Penny's sarcasm towards Leonard just leaves a nasty taste IMO.

 

Edited by sladenoddy
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I have just seen the episode and I thought it was really funny, but I think it would have been better if the redo had been over two episodes. To have both the aftermath after the dinner,the redo and howardettes story in the same episode felt a little bit rush.  

As others have mention it feels strange that not all of Penny's and Leonard's relatives are at the redo. I don't think that the casting of Penny's brother and mother was that bad, after all it is a comedy.

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8 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I have just seen the episode and I thought it was really funny, but I think it would have been better if the redo had been over two episodes. To have both the aftermath after the dinner,the redo and howardettes story in the same episode felt a little bit rush.  

As others have mention it feels strange that not all of Penny's and Leonard's relatives are at the redo. I don't think that the casting of Penny's brother and mother was that bad, after all it is a comedy.

They can always introduce Penny's sister, her family and Leonard's siblings in a future episode. Makes sense that the show didn't use all their bullets in one shot. Besides, you don't think there was already a lot of guest stars?

Edited by Jonny
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1 minute ago, Jonny said:

They can always introduce Penny's sister, her family and Leonard's siblings in a future episode. Makes sense that the show didn't use all their bullets in one shot. Besides, you don't think there was already a lot of guest stars?

I agree that there was a lot of guest stars and of course can they introduce the relatives later.

I only thought from a realistic point of view, usually when you get married all your closest friends and relatives are there. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 20/09/2016 at 7:24 PM, 5Mississippis said:

 

Was truly disappointed in Susan, Penny's mother. We have been given only a few snippets of her through the years but it seems to me that a 'pot smoking while pregnant' woman who had a daughter that 'shot her husband' (they were both drunk was the dismissive excuse) and took her son 'out drinking to celebrate his sobriety' spent waaaay too much time through the episode worrying what other people might think of her. IMO, it would have been funnier if Susan HAD happily acted as we have been led to believe, a Trailer Park Queen, and it would have clashed nicely with Bev's stick-up-the-butt elitism and condescending propriety. If they had written Penny to be profoundly embarrassed by her mother, between the two, it could possibly have given us fun moments. But nah. Katey Sagal's talent was not used and her role was reduced to an un-fun shrieking harpy. 

My only LOL moment was Randall's 'well what color trash do you think they would believe?'

 

Susan should not be a Trailer Park Queen. We know that Penny's family farm land they have owned for several generations (her grandmother or great-grandmother, I forget which, is buried there - now with Penny's late pig next to her). Several daughters have apparently married into trailer parks - hence Wyatt's remarks when he first met Leonard.

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13 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Susan should not be a Trailer Park Queen. We know that Penny's family farm land they have owned for several generations (her grandmother or great-grandmother, I forget which, is buried there - now with Penny's late pig next to her). Several daughters have apparently married into trailer parks - hence Wyatt's remarks when he first met Leonard.

I didn't say she should be a Trailer Park Queen. I said, for me, it would have been funnier HAD HAPPILY ACTED like one. Given the few facts we knew about her, she certainly seemed to behave like one but not so in the episode. One can act like a Trailer Park Queen but still live on a farm. 

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When Alfred said to Beverly at the ceremony that at least their relationship produced Leonard, she reacted as tho it was a new idea to her. But Penny said exactly the same thing to her in the car in 924.

Would it not have been conventional for the mother of the bride to be more prominent in the proceedings?

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34 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

When Alfred said to Beverly at the ceremony that at least their relationship produced Leonard, she reacted as tho it was a new idea to her. But Penny said exactly the same thing to her in the car in 924.

Would it not have been conventional for the mother of the bride to be more prominent in the proceedings?

I think it more to do with that moment, maybe Beverly was getting a bit emotional inside seeing the ceremony? You have to keep in mind that they did this ceremony for her, it was Penny's idea after Beverly had told them she was upset they have a wedding without her present. It also depends who said it, her relationship with Alfred is frosty right now but they must have had some nice moments when they were together or feelings towards each other.

On your second point if it was an actual wedding in a traditional setting then sure but this wasn't, it was more like a renewal of vows.

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  • 5 years later...

There is a recent article in Looper that suggests that Leonard and Penny got the short end of the stick in their marriages. I agree as this has bothered me as well. Their first marriage was an elopement with the albatross of Leonard's indiscretion hanging over them (a ridiculous storyline to say the least) and then their redo marriage ceremony with all their family and friends was blighted by Sheldon's inappropriate and obnoxious behavior in the whole episode. Including his injection into their embrace when pronounced man and wife. The article goes on to say that Bernadette and Howard's wedding while not perfect did have some warm scenes. But Sheldon and Amy's wedding had very little faults with all the guests and family attending and did not have a single wrinkle. Why did the writers make their wedding so much more enjoyable than L&P. As Leonard and Penny were the core couple from the beginning they could have made their  wedding much more appealing to the fans. And why didn't they show some scenes from the reception.......I guess time did not allow for it.  So much for my rant

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12 hours ago, Mario D. said:

There is a recent article in Looper that suggests that Leonard and Penny got the short end of the stick in their marriages. I agree as this has bothered me as well. Their first marriage was an elopement with the albatross of Leonard's indiscretion hanging over them (a ridiculous storyline to say the least) and then their redo marriage ceremony with all their family and friends was blighted by Sheldon's inappropriate and obnoxious behavior in the whole episode. Including his injection into their embrace when pronounced man and wife. The article goes on to say that Bernadette and Howard's wedding while not perfect did have some warm scenes. But Sheldon and Amy's wedding had very little faults with all the guests and family attending and did not have a single wrinkle. Why did the writers make their wedding so much more enjoyable than L&P. As Leonard and Penny were the core couple from the beginning they could have made their  wedding much more appealing to the fans. And why didn't they show some scenes from the reception.......I guess time did not allow for it.  So much for my rant

Ranting is a great way to release tension. I've ranted a few times and I felt so much better afterwards. I totally agree with your rant. It's as if the writers just threw the Lenny relationship under the bus. I'll reframe from ranting on this subject as you have eloquently expressed your thoughts on the subject. Great Rant!

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Yeah it’s good to rant once in a while LOL 

 

Regarding their first wedding, I was okay with the idea of them eloping,somehow I never pictured a big wedding for these two so I was fine with that. In saying that, they didn’t have to make it look so cheap and tacky ( pot pourri from the bathroom , breakfast at the stippers’ club etc). They could have had a nice sweet wedding , even in Vegas. Of course, the boat kiss revelation made everything worse. What was even harder for me was them spending their wedding night apart. So you have Penny in 4B having to process all that on her own, Sheldon rambling because he’s obviously confused and hurting and as mad as I was at Leonard , seeing him like that in his armchair made me sad. There’s a guy who messed up big time and he knows he only has himself to blame. I really felt for the three of them. 

For me , the writers didn’t quite get the comedy nor the drama right in this particular episode. 

Now for their second wedding, I really didn’t care for Sheldon’s speech , as nice as it was. What pis*ed me off was the “ weird other husband that came with the apartment” line. I mean, was that really necessary ? They spent seasons showing us the bond between the three, be it friends, brotherly/sisterly , surrogate parents and even masters/pet and now he’s  her “ weird other husband''? I don’t know if was more insulting to Leonard or Amy. Again , another nice moment that had to be cheapened. 

As for the Shamy wedding , it was the most iconic character in the show getting married so you’d expect the writers to put out all the stops for the big event, detailed wedding planning, a bachelor’s party , a nice ceremony and a honeymoon. 

Why they thought Lenny deserved less than that is anybody’s guess. I think for their vegas wedding they went for an " unconventionnal TV wedding" . Not a very satisfying explanation but that's all I can think of. 

H/B got a nice wedding then nothing, Lenny got 2 subpar weddings then nothing, Shamy got everything, that’s really not fair. 

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2 hours ago, NeckShotLime said:

Yeah it’s good to rant once in a while LOL 

 

Regarding their first wedding, I was okay with the idea of them eloping,somehow I never pictured a big wedding for these two so I was fine with that. In saying that, they didn’t have to make it look so cheap and tacky ( pot pourri from the bathroom , breakfast at the stippers’ club etc). They could have had a nice sweet wedding , even in Vegas. Of course, the boat kiss revelation made everything worse. What was even harder for me was them spending their wedding night apart. So you have Penny in 4B having to process all that on her own, Sheldon rambling because he’s obviously confused and hurting and as mad as I was at Leonard , seeing him like that in his armchair made me sad. There’s a guy who messed up big time and he knows he only has himself to blame. I really felt for the three of them. 

For me , the writers didn’t quite get the comedy nor the drama right in this particular episode. 

Now for their second wedding, I really didn’t care for Sheldon’s speech , as nice as it was. What pis*ed me off was the “ weird other husband that came with the apartment” line. I mean, was that really necessary ? They spent seasons showing us the bond between the three, be it friends, brotherly/sisterly , surrogate parents and even masters/pet and now he’s  her “ weird other husband''? I don’t know if was more insulting to Leonard or Amy. Again , another nice moment that had to be cheapened. 

As for the Shamy wedding , it was the most iconic character in the show getting married so you’d expect the writers to put out all the stops for the big event, detailed wedding planning, a bachelor’s party , a nice ceremony and a honeymoon. 

Why they thought Lenny deserved less than that is anybody’s guess. I think for their vegas wedding they went for an " unconventionnal TV wedding" . Not a very satisfying explanation but that's all I can think of. 

H/B got a nice wedding then nothing, Lenny got 2 subpar weddings then nothing, Shamy got everything, that’s really not fair. 

I  agree with you and how you so eloquently expressed the dissatisfaction many Lenny fans had. Not only was "the weird other husband" line inappropriate but also the line Sheldon said about his mother and Leonard's father fornicating. That was totally disgraceful and had no place at a wedding. Sometimes I  think the writers just throw lines out there for a quick laugh and don't think of how badly they sound.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, NeckShotLime said:

Yeah it’s good to rant once in a while LOL 

 

Regarding their first wedding, I was okay with the idea of them eloping,somehow I never pictured a big wedding for these two so I was fine with that. In saying that, they didn’t have to make it look so cheap and tacky ( pot pourri from the bathroom , breakfast at the stippers’ club etc). They could have had a nice sweet wedding , even in Vegas. Of course, the boat kiss revelation made everything worse. What was even harder for me was them spending their wedding night apart. So you have Penny in 4B having to process all that on her own, Sheldon rambling because he’s obviously confused and hurting and as mad as I was at Leonard , seeing him like that in his armchair made me sad. There’s a guy who messed up big time and he knows he only has himself to blame. I really felt for the three of them. 

For me , the writers didn’t quite get the comedy nor the drama right in this particular episode. 

Now for their second wedding, I really didn’t care for Sheldon’s speech , as nice as it was. What pis*ed me off was the “ weird other husband that came with the apartment” line. I mean, was that really necessary ? They spent seasons showing us the bond between the three, be it friends, brotherly/sisterly , surrogate parents and even masters/pet and now he’s  her “ weird other husband''? I don’t know if was more insulting to Leonard or Amy. Again , another nice moment that had to be cheapened. 

As for the Shamy wedding , it was the most iconic character in the show getting married so you’d expect the writers to put out all the stops for the big event, detailed wedding planning, a bachelor’s party , a nice ceremony and a honeymoon. 

Why they thought Lenny deserved less than that is anybody’s guess. I think for their vegas wedding they went for an " unconventionnal TV wedding" . Not a very satisfying explanation but that's all I can think of. 

H/B got a nice wedding then nothing, Lenny got 2 subpar weddings then nothing, Shamy got everything, that’s really not fair. 

Totally agree with your assessment. Shamy got the near perfect wedding and Lenny got Sheldon screwing up both weddings. The first by his childish behavior and the other poking in where he wasn't needed. Everything he said could have waited till after the wedding. Bernadette's line about weird other husband, in my opinion, was uncalled for definitely not needed. Enough of my rant, for now. I really enjoyed reading your post and as I said,  I totally agree with you. 

Edited by chucky
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  • 1 month later...
On 10/24/2016 at 8:06 AM, Jonny said:

I think it more to do with that moment, maybe Beverly was getting a bit emotional inside seeing the ceremony? You have to keep in mind that they did this ceremony for her, it was Penny's idea after Beverly had told them she was upset they have a wedding without her present.

And yet a few episodes before this at Sheldon's birthday party, it was brought up that she wasn't at their wedding in Vegas and she was fine with it. 

On 7/3/2022 at 12:14 AM, chucky said:

It's as if the writers just threw the Lenny relationship under the bus.

Sometimes, it seems like all Lenny's relationship is treated like a joke. An example I can think of is when Penny is considering going to work for Zack. Leonard is talking about it with Raj and Sheldon. Raj says, "Oh she's going to leave you. Might as well get it over with". Lines like that, I don't find funny at all.

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9 hours ago, TLW said:

And yet a few episodes before this at Sheldon's birthday party, it was brought up that she wasn't at their wedding in Vegas and she was fine with it. 

Sometimes, it seems like all Lenny's relationship is treated like a joke. An example I can think of is when Penny is considering going to work for Zack. Leonard is talking about it with Raj and Sheldon. Raj says, "Oh she's going to leave you. Might as well get it over with". Lines like that, I don't find funny at all.

All three of his so-called friends made stupid remarks like that. None of them were funny. That's one of the reasons I don't think of them being friends. They were more like acquaintances than friends. Raj, Howard and Sheldon mocked and teased more than being supportive. They enjoyed mocking and teasing, but got upset when they were mocked or teased. Ranting over, for now. 

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9 hours ago, TLW said:

And yet a few episodes before this at Sheldon's birthday party, it was brought up that she wasn't at their wedding in Vegas and she was fine with it. 

Sometimes, it seems like all Lenny's relationship is treated like a joke. An example I can think of is when Penny is considering going to work for Zack. Leonard is talking about it with Raj and Sheldon. Raj says, "Oh she's going to leave you. Might as well get it over with". Lines like that, I don't find funny at all.

I agree  Raj is always making remarks like that. It is as if they break up he will get another crack at her.......would never happen!

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8 hours ago, TLW said:

And yet a few episodes before this at Sheldon's birthday party, it was brought up that she wasn't at their wedding in Vegas and she was fine with it. 

Sometimes, it seems like all Lenny's relationship is treated like a joke. An example I can think of is when Penny is considering going to work for Zack. Leonard is talking about it with Raj and Sheldon. Raj says, "Oh she's going to leave you. Might as well get it over with". Lines like that, I don't find funny at all.

I believe that there was no actual plan for a wedding redo but then they got the opportunity to have Judd Hirsh on the show to play Leonard's dad and they came up with the idea of another wedding ceremony ( @Tensorwill know more than I do ).  So when the lovely Beverly thanked Lenny for not inviting her at the Vegas wedding, she meant it but they had to "tweak" the character a bit to justify the wedding redo so you have a Beverly who felt insulted for not being invited ( and a Beverly who actually cares about her son's happiness!! ) 

Well, that's Raj for you. Only a few episodes before he said he was jealous of Lenny and Howardette and their happy relationships.... I don't pay attention to what he says because he's the one who's unable to be in a healthy relationship , he's more background noise than anything  as far as i'm concerned. 

Also i believe the three major relationships were treated as some big joke at one point or another. Look at Howardette for instance. They had their sweet moments but for a very long time their dynamics were awful , he was a man-child and she was a harpish shrew. It was implied that Penny ruined Bernie's life by setting her up with Howard.... The Shamy were a big joke to everybody .... 

I don't know if Lenny were treated any worse than the other two couples honestly. Maybe we notice more the jokes that were done at Lenny's expense because we care more about those two. I don't know. 

The one thing that bothers me really is that the writers took the time to deepen the emotional connection between H/B and S/A. They never did with Lenny that's why we were stuck with the same jokes with them. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I agree  Raj is always making remarks like that. It is as if they break up he will get another crack at her.......would never happen!

He couldn't handle the first and only time. I mean,  she was drunk. Loved how she called him Quickdraw. He also had dreams of being with Bernadette. If you remember his "Bernadette play my clarinet ".

 

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4 minutes ago, NeckShotLime said:

I believe that there was no actual plan for a wedding redo but then they got the opportunity to have Judd Hirsh on the show to play Leonard's dad and they came up with the idea of another wedding ceremony ( @Tensorwill know more than I do ).  So when the lovely Beverly thanked Lenny for not inviting her at the Vegas wedding, she meant it but they had to "tweak" the character a bit to justify the wedding redo so you have a Beverly who felt insulted for not being invited ( and a Beverly who actually cares about her son's happiness!! ) 

Well, that's Raj for you. Only a few episodes before he said he was jealous of Lenny and Howardette and their happy relationships.... I don't pay attention to what he says because he's the one who's unable to be in a healthy relationship , he's more background noise than anything  as far as i'm concerned. 

Also i believe the three major relationships were treated as some big joke at one point or another. Look at Howardette for instance. They had their sweet moments but for a very long time their dynamics were awful , he was a man-child and she was a harpish shrew. It was implied that Penny ruined Bernie's life by setting her up with Howard.... The Shamy were a big joke to everybody .... 

I don't know if Lenny were treated any worse than the other two couples honestly. Maybe we notice more the jokes that were done at Lenny's expense because we care more about those two. I don't know. 

The one thing that bothers me really is that the writers took the time to deepen the emotional connection between H/B and S/A. They never did with Lenny that's why we were stuck with the same jokes with them. 

 

Yeah They never really explored P&L relationship fully. Even up to the final episode where they sprung the pregnancy on us instead of explaining why Penny did not want children and have them talking about having a family in one or two episodes during the season. I just don't think the writers knew how to express this as they were comedy writers first. Another thing that bothered me was the disgraceful way Beverly was to her own son, The worst was when P&L got engaged and Leonard tells his mother and she responds with "Sheldon already has told me of your engagement and if she is good enough for him she is good enough for me" What an insensitive and disgraceful thing to say to your own son. Sheldon had no right to tell Beverly of P&L engagement and if I were Leonard I would have told his mother to stay out of my life.  End of rant

7 minutes ago, chucky said:

He couldn't handle the first and only time. I mean,  she was drunk. Loved how she called him Quickdraw. He also had dreams of being with Bernadette. If you remember his "Bernadette play my clarinet ".

 

Yeah he couldn't get women on his own so he went after the ones he knew disregarding the "bro-code"

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1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

Yeah They never really explored P&L relationship fully. Even up to the final episode where they sprung the pregnancy on us instead of explaining why Penny did not want children and have them talking about having a family in one or two episodes during the season. I just don't think the writers knew how to express this as they were comedy writers first. Another thing that bothered me was the disgraceful way Beverly was to her own son, The worst was when P&L got engaged and Leonard tells his mother and she responds with "Sheldon already has told me of your engagement and if she is good enough for him she is good enough for me" What an insensitive and disgraceful thing to say to your own son. Sheldon had no right to tell Beverly of P&L engagement and if I were Leonard I would have told his mother to stay out of my life.  End of rant

Yeah he couldn't get women on his own so he went after the ones he knew disregarding the "bro-code"

Beverly did seem to think of Sheldon as her son and Leonard as a second thought. At least Alfred turned into a decent father. After reading some of the fanfiction stories,  I find myself thinking maybe Beverly was his stepmother. That could explain her treatment of Leonard. Oh well, it's fun to think about. 

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