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First off, I created this thread, not wowbagger.  Sorry wow, I started pulling posts over here and the software puts them in by time, this has nothing to do with your apology.  So It is not wowbagers fault, blame me.

Tensor  

 

22 hours ago, April said:

That was Valentino, not Meemaw. And yes, sometimes you need the character to tell you how they feel because obviously otherwise people will end up making all sorts of assumptions that fit their current panicky mood. And at that time people were worrying that Sheldon would still have reservations about the breakup but that scene put a stop to it, thank goodness.

 

Okay, my forum-fu is weak and does not permit me to respond to this post in the discussion or shipping lanes thread. So my apologies, Tensor, in advance.

Right. so. Here is my position. If you need to tell your viewers how to feel, you are failing in your basic job as a writer. If your viewers are so panicky that they will clutch at straws to arrive at a negative interpretation, guess what? On average, quite a lot of that responsibility lies with you, the creator. If your viewers don't feel the way you want them to feel based on what you are showing them, you have not done your job. Whether or not we think that the breakup was a good thing is actually irrelevant here. That fourth wall breaking from Sheldon violated the cardinal rule of storytelling: Show, don't tell.

22 hours ago, April said:

 

 

That is just factually wrong. And it's not even up for interpretation. Wil says this to the guys before the movie to calm them down, that even if it's not a good movie life goes on. This parallels Shamy's uncertainty of whether or not coitus will be any good but that it'll be okay and they can find out together.

 

Fair enough. Which.....doesn't answer the question of what happens AFTER the movie, where we are invited to compare the boys at the movie and Amy's blissed-out affect, to Wil and Sheldon's benign 'Ho hum, what a nice bowl of soup' reaction. To be clear, the episode itself throws up some red flags, but I thought it was delightful in and of itself. It is primarily the lack of resolution (which I personally think IS a sad and ugly resolution) of the coitus question that tarnishes the episode in retrospect. I can't enjoy the episode looking at the Wil/Sheldon comparison, hearing the 'gift of my genitals' line, when I know that it will be followed by episode after episode in which Sheldon is never allowed to categorically express desire for his girlfriend, where she is reduced to cadging and wheedling and hinting, where she is treated by the writers as an extraordinarily hirsute punching bag. And honestly, I don't think any Shamies like that, do they? So why is this even an argument that anybody is having? The treatment of coitus in the latter half of S9 was not only grotesque, it has retroactively smirched nearly all of the much -vaunted progress that was made.

And now Amy has to wheedle Sheldon to try cohabitation as an experiment. Her boyfriend, pushing forty, who was apparently about to propose to her, but is so other-worldly that he has no idea that marriage involves cohabitation. Even though he comes from a socially conservative background. Amy apparently has to treat her partner as a dog to be housebroken, or a hawk to be trained, rather than her partner or lover. And for what, exactly? What is in it for Amy? She doesn't seem to share common interests with Sheldon so much anymore. Shr certainly isn't allowed to volunteer crazy stuff for them to do. Penny and Bernie will still be her friends even if she walks out on Sheldon. The breakup proved that. So what else? Was the sex that good that the memory of that one occasion-and the promise of more on an annual basis- is enough to sustain a lifetime of doubt and the creeping sensation that you are caught in a cycle of mutual exploitation with a selfish infant? Does she enjoy complaining about how much she endures that much? Maybe. Maybe she gets off on her martyrdom. But if so, that should be made clearer. Then I'll know that I am meant to be watching some sort of diluted Philip Roth thing, and plan accordingly.

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18 hours ago, camelliayao said:

I disagree. I've always thought Wil's line is the writers telling us whether you like the change of the show/Sheldon having coitus or not, your life will not be any different. Because SW is fictive, so is TBBT, SW paralleling TBBT just makes more sense to me. Actually I've seen an official translation team of a large website who owns right of online steaming of TBBT in my country uses Wil's line at the end of the episode to comfort people who don't want Sheldon to lose his virginity or to change.

I'm not saying this interpretation is the right one, just yours is not the only interpretation, and there're people, and quite a few people who interpret the line the same way as Lionne.

But Wil's line at the end of the episode was a different one, that's my point. He did not say that after the movie - he said it before. That is a fact. If you (general you) want to turn this into a huge rant about how the show is telling you how meaningless everything is or whatever, at least get your facts straight.

And yeah, if you want to say that this is the show also calming down the audience with regards to Shamy sex as in: No matter if you like it or not, it's okay, it's just a show and you'll be back for the next episode anyway. Then yeah, I don't disagree with that. But I don't see any nefarious motives behind that.

18 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Right. so. Here is my position. If you need to tell your viewers how to feel, you are failing in your basic job as a writer. If your viewers are so panicky that they will clutch at straws to arrive at a negative interpretation, guess what? On average, quite a lot of that responsibility lies with you, the creator. If your viewers don't feel the way you want them to feel based on what you are showing them, you have not done your job. Whether or not we think that the breakup was a good thing is actually irrelevant here. That fourth wall breaking from Sheldon violated the cardinal rule of storytelling: Show, don't tell.

The thing is, I have been here during all of S9. I have seen how these opinions came to be. How a few angsty shippers were musing about their worst fears and then it spiralled out of control. Should the show anticipate that as well? Should they take extra care to not spook a bunch of people on an online forum?? Because I don't think the general audience ever mentioned any of the fears that have blown up here and I don't think the writers even know wtf is even going on here. Thank goodness, because they probably would be baffled by how this turned out.

Quote

An echo chamber, eh? There are a fair few who have been directly or indirectly told that we're pissing in everyone's cornflakes for expressing dissent, or concern, or anything stronger than,

You know I don't have a problem with anyone expressing dissent and I am not shy to express my own concerns of the show often enough. But I've seen these kind of things spiral out of control which also caused a tighter moderation in places like this cause, you know, this is a Shipping Zone for a reason. To give people a save place to be -gasp!- positive about this show and their favourite couple

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3 hours ago, April said:

 

 

 

 

 

I refuse to entertain this kind of nonsense that the show is telling us Sheldon secretly hates Amy because that is basically what these kind of arguments boil down to. Sorry to be so blunt.

don't entertain the nonsense! Don't entertain the straw man....which is essentially what this statement is. Nobody is claiming that Sheldon hates Amy. Nobody is saying that the show wants us to think so either. In fact, I am sure the show wants us to think that we are watching a loving and united couple. Here's the deal though: If we do not believe that we have sufficient on-screen evidence that we are indeed watching a loving and united couple who enjoy each other, then we can say so WITHOUT saying that we believe they hate each other. There is a whole range of unpleasant options for a shipper that do not involve hate. That are, in fact, worse than hate , which is at least a strong emotion and separated from love by not very much. Let's see, what could those be?

a ) Benign indifference

b ) Affection born of habit and sustained by inertia

c ) Quiet desperation

d ) Expediency

and so on.

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It's undeniable that Shamy thread has been less and less active since the second part of S. 9, even if lately things are doing quite well, TBH. Many Shamy fans left, some of them because they don't like any more the show in general and Shamy's evolution in particular, some of them because, even if they were still entertained by Shamy and by the show, they couldn't bear  the general negativity in the forum. Of course I would love to see more people here. I can't do anything to make people like the show if they don't like it and\or don't want to have anything to do with it, of course; but maybe if the climate in the Shamy thread is "generally" positive and people can engage in discussions which overall comply with the rules maybe some more fans will join the thread. 

Edited by mirs1
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I have only been in this site since last month and many of its dynamic is new for me. I dont speak more about other show stuff but shamy stuff because nowadays is what I most like about it. I m not a fan for years of the show as I have just started to be a tbbt fan since last year, so I have watched the episodes in marathones. Season 4 and 5 are my favourites speaking the show generaly, now days my complain is about science and nerd stuff being each time less than it used to be.

I like the site atmosphere, although it is not easy for me as I am not an expert about English grammar and spelling to express properly my point of views about many of the most populares subjects around here.

Well, with the risk of being out of topic, I would like to say that I dont speak more for lack of courage, for the need to having someone to speak my ideas for myself  or shyness. It is just because I dont feel secure enough for writing for you all and the risk of your dont understand me is really big. However I enjoy to read your point of views, even like to read those I dont agree with. Always learn something new as much we read about what other people think about same interests I have about this show.

I will stay and I am enjoying being here discussing tbbt but for a question of my personality ( I dont like rants and I am not to negative land about abything in life in general), I will tend to be more a reader than a "poster".

A wonderful day to everyone and stay cool :)

Edited by spidergirl1975
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Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to the thread as some sort of hive mind, of course there can be a difference of opinions and fiery discussions. It's just that I've seen the Shamy thread capable of being different minded and not reach such a mean-spirited place. Also I thought this was the Shamy thread so that's what I meant by "we" (it's too early for me to be here) 

Being angry at a show is one thing, being frustrated with a ship (as I've admitted to be at times) is understandable. What I protest is the calling supporters and optimists sheep or mindless followers. 

Again, I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I was attacking those of different opinion—it was more a question of genuine concern that the thread was reaching a point where discussion turned into arguing. (that's why I had my disclaimer that I'm not eloquent in the slightest.) 

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11 hours ago, Lionne said:

Look really carefully, in particular, at Wil Wheaton's part in The Opening Night, where he looks right at the boys in the happy afterglow of Star Wars, and coolly and impassively tells them that it's just a movie, that it doesn't mean anything, and that it changes nothing. It is as meta from the writers to the fans as it can possibly be, and it's message is mocking and cruel. Sheldon may have jostled Amy's genitals finally, but nothing about the show or their relationship would be changing. Nothing about them making love had any real meaning.

 

Your memory must be faulty. Wheaton says that BEFORE the movie. The only thing he says after the movie is echoing Sheldon saying "I enjoyed that more than I thought I would".  That makes a big difference in your argument.

Just a question (not just for you). Why do you continue to watch if you have such a low opinion of the show? Never understood that.

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2 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

 

Just a question (not just for you). Why do you continue to watch if you have such a low opinion of the show? Never understood that.

Well, if it's not just for Lio, here is my response: Discussion of a show should not be confined exclusively to uncritical adoration, or even to qualified adoration. You don't give up being a fan because you dislike (even violently dislike) certain aspects of a show. In addition, if you USED to enjoy a show (as I did, and defended it against charges of lazy writing and overuse of stereotype and cliche) you ought still to be allowed to voice criticism of a direction that you don't enjoy. The problem is when you start telling people how to consume a work of fiction. Voicing your opinion is not the same thing as forcing other people to share it.

You know what IS flirting with forcing other people to share your opinion? Saying 'if you don't like it, why don't you just leave?' That statement, whether one means it or not, suggests that the target has failed a certain basic qualification to have and hold an opinion.

nothing wrong with disagreement, even robust disagreement. Bit tricky when you start deciding who gets to speak.

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24 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Well, if it's not just for Lio, here is my response: Discussion of a show should not be confined exclusively to uncritical adoration, or even to qualified adoration. You don't give up being a fan because you dislike (even violently dislike) certain aspects of a show. In addition, if you USED to enjoy a show (as I did, and defended it against charges of lazy writing and overuse of stereotype and cliche) you ought still to be allowed to voice criticism of a direction that you don't enjoy. The problem is when you start telling people how to consume a work of fiction. Voicing your opinion is not the same thing as forcing other people to share it.

You know what IS flirting with forcing other people to share your opinion? Saying 'if you don't like it, why don't you just leave?' That statement, whether one means it or not, suggests that the target has failed a certain basic qualification to have and hold an opinion.

nothing wrong with disagreement, even robust disagreement. Bit tricky when you start deciding who gets to speak.

That is a stance I can absolutely agree with. I personally probably wouldn't make that choice and, you know, spend my days arguing about a show I don't even like anymore. But each to their own and I can respect that. And as said repeatedly I certainly enjoy a good argument.

But that kind of respect has to go both ways. This forum in particular had some very negatively charged discussions during S9 (to put it mildly) and as a result the moderation is stricter and the rules of the shipping zones are enforced more often than it was the case in the past (hence why whole discussions get moved around). That doesn't mean that people's opinions get censored it just means to be a bit more mindful of where to post certain opinions (and I think you said you tried earlier today but the forum wouldn't let you, so no hard feelings here). And it certainly would help a great deal if people who still happen to like the show weren't pigeonholed as mindless drones who blindly follow the great Molaro or whatever.

Anyway, in keeping it with Star Trek's 50th anniversary today: LLAP! <3

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8 hours ago, Jedichic98 said:

Being angry at a show is one thing, being frustrated with a ship (as I've admitted to be at times) is understandable. What I protest is the calling supporters and optimists sheep or mindless followers. 

Again, I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I was attacking those of different opinion—it was more a question of genuine concern that the thread was reaching a point where discussion turned into arguing. (that's why I had my disclaimer that I'm not eloquent in the slightest.) 

But the thing is that I didn't call anyone sheep or mindless followers. I called the show out on treating it's viewers that way.

 Using another example: the show is *showing* us a lot of Leonard and Penny bickering and their dithering around on an engagement, and there would seem to be some worrisome flaws in the relationship. But then Stuart suddenly pops up to cut in and tell everyone that Leonard and Penny are the best couple he knows. Why, the better halves of them add up into one awesome person!

Instances like this are incredibly lazy on behalf of the writers of the show; they are treating the audience like sheep who will just believe what they tell the audience through Stuart (Lenny are the best couple ever) even what they are actually writing for the couple is questionable and has caused even some of their most ardent shippers to have doubts about them, or simply to express annoyance about how they are written.

This is patronizing. One of my degrees is in creative writing, and I can tell you that when you show up to learn to write the first thing they hammer into you is the difference between showing and telling. And there's just an enormous cognitive dissonance between what the writers seem to think they are writing and what they are actually writing. If you want a prime example of this, look at this quote from Molaro: As much as Raj wants to be a husband and father, Molaro says he’s already a married man, sorta. "Raj’s a pretty good second husband to all the women,” says Molaro. “It’s a role he handles well … He floats around and fills in the gaps for all their relationships, in a very nice way. He’s the backup spouse to everybody.

I mean, people of the forum, have any of you over the past several seasons come to the conclusion that Raj is the sweet and wonderful secondary husband to every single female member of the cast? Were you aware that Raj is not dating Emily and Claire and being a douchebag in his relationship with them, but that he's "filling the gaps" in the holes of Sheldon and Amy, Leonard and Penny, AND Howard and Bernadette's relationships? If anything, we have seen Bernie and Howard continually waffle back and forth between kicking Raj out or reluctantly accepting it so as not to hurt his feelings when Raj becomes a third wheel in their relationship.

But apparently....this is not what Molaro takes away from what he's writing, or what the audience is supposed to take away from it. Raj is everyone's back up husband/wife, and that's what Molaro is telling you and how you're supposed to see it. And I just find that outrageous, and incredibly out of touch that you can dictate how your audience is supposed to view your writing and how they should interpret what you're putting out there. It treats the audience badly to assume that they are sheep who will just accept whatever you say is going on no matter where it makes sense or not, and whether that's what you have actually written or not.

I have no idea how you translate this into insulting my fellow forum members by outright calling them sheep, but this is not what I said and the outrage is not warrented. Just like I never said that I think Sheldon secretly hates Amy, or anything close to that, and yet it was summed up that this is what I said and then told that such "nonsense" would not be tolerated. What I have actually said is being way twisted up in a way I find incredibly hyper defensive. And I do understand it, I do understand that Shamy and the show and various ships are precious to people and they get very protective, but both the warping of people's statements and the Positivity Fascism are not alright.

And as for the statement that if only we were more positive we'd attract more people: I have to call bullsh*t on that. In fact it's been proven to not be true. We have had both Lenny and Shamy Positivity threads and both happened to rise and then flame out and die before their seasons were over. If being 100% positive about anything and everything was so damn attractive and would make everyone happy than it does not make sense that the Positivity threads of the past have repeatedly died from disuse. People can say they want it, but the proof is not actually there.

Just like last year when I said that nobody really loved Howard and Bernadette as a ship, and no one wanted to hear that from the mean and negative lady, so you started the first and only Howardette thread to PROVE your Howardette love. How far did that thread make it? More than 8 - 10 pages? In comparison to hundreds and hundreds of pages and ink spilled to Lenny and Shamy threads season after season?

Why can't we just be honest about stuff without the backlash?

Edited by Lionne
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Well!  I am glad I checked out the forum this afternoon.  It made for some interesting reading.

Personally, I am not a fan of these positivity threads in general.  I understand the reasoning behind them (a safe place to go to read about your favourite couple, and not see any negativity or bashing).  BUT....it doesn't really make for a place of discussion.  I can understand the "No Bashing" rule, but I would like to openly discuss things that I find concerning or strange or nonsensical.  I would like to be able to criticize the character's actions in a non-bashing way.  Perhaps that was the intention of the shipping thread, but really it has turned into a parking lot of posts that have veered off the non-positive vibe required of the ship threads.  So as I have non-positive thoughts on the couples, I don't post on the Shamy thread, or the Lenny thread.  I don't feel like going in quiet Shipping Threads, because it feels like I'm just looking to argue about something.  So that leaves me with...not posting much.  

I miss being really excited about a ship, I used to feel that way, but Season 9 kind of sucked it out of me.  I'm happy that others still feel that way, but as mentioned in previous posts, there is just too much that doesn't make sense to me, and it bothers me.    I'm not sure about the writers sense of humour.  There is such a mean edge to many things that have happened in the last three seasons.  Things that made both couple unique, interesting and sweet feels like it is slowly being stripped away and turned into something more generic.   The stuff that happened in Season 9 kind of made me cringe. 

There are negative messages I think that keep getting repeated. 

  • Codependence is fun!
  • If you are not traditionally "hot" - it's okay to keep making dumpy/ugly/hairy jokes.  Ha ha ha...Amy will never be as hot as Penny.  Isn't that hilarious!
  • Pretty Girls can't be smart!  You have to use your other "assets" to make the sale!  Tee Hee!
  • Raj being skeevy is hilarious!  Especially that Emily doesn't really know!  What a dog! ...Dog you say...oops..whatever did happen to Cinnamon?..(sssh let's not talk about that).
  • Let's make Sheldon more and more like an infant that needs taking care of!  So funny!  Penny, Leonard and now Amy can all act like his parents.  Cause that's super funny and normal. 

Don't get me wrong, I know it's a sitcom, and meant to be taken lightly.  I also understand that nobody wants to go to a thread that's all doom and gloom all the time.  But I'd like to see something with a bit of a mix. Discussion - the good, the bad, with no bashing (in an ideal world!)

 

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A "fan" is defined as an enthusiastic supporter or devotee of a sport team, celebrity, or similar. This forum defines itself as a "fansite" in its title, so the assumption is that people posting here are ultimately "fans" of TBBT. I actually enjoy the spirited debates here with fans of the show and have had my opinion swayed from time to time by them.

The debates I enjoy are with people who I have come to know love the show in the end, and those debates usually involve minutia or specific topics about the show (like if the breakup was necessary, or is Raj being a DB by dating Emily again). We may differ in our opinions and ideas about particulars but the one thing we have in common is love for the show after 9 seasons, warts and all.

There are some people, though, who bring the negativity with every post and never seem to end them with anything positive to show they are still a "fan", as if they once were one but are not anymore. The show is in its 10th season now and hasnt been S1-S3 for a while. A lot has happened.

If someone is a fan of the show then this is the site for them! If someone once was a fan but things changed then thats okay, but maybe this site isnt for those folks. I think some of the heated and emotional potshots people take on this forum have a lot to do with perceptions that some posts are not part of the collective "enthusiastic support and devotion" that a fanbase is supposed to have. 

 

 
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When I started posting here the big deal was college boys and some reactionary older people banging on about how Penny was such a slut. At least that's gone. But it was accepted as a reality.

Now, Sheldon - who I see as something of a model for the reactionary, as he goes about channeling his good ole boy heritage - is treating a women rather poorly - but it's seen a writing problem - not a reality. (Edit: maybe Sheldon is the character they are actually depicting despite wishes to the contrary).

I'd say I am at b. on the wowbagger scale. I do hang in out of hope for moments of satisfaction, because the L/P story still moves (albeit ridiculously) in a positive direction. 

Regarding the Shamy story ... pup sold have we been perchance. Let the capable and effective woman get on with her life - or give her some decent wins. Imagine another three years of quiveringly anticipative Amy. Golly.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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30 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

ts like attending a baseball game with someone who purports to be a fan of your team but criticizes the players and coaching staff in every inning. You begin to question if they are truly a fan... 

You are obviously not married to a Cubs fan.  I have been for years....it's brutal...lol

 

31 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

If someone is a fan of the show then this is the site for them! If someone once was a fan but things changed then thats okay, but maybe this site isnt for those folks.

I respectfully disagree.  People are allowed to come here and vent.  It doesn't mean that they are not fans anymore.  It doesn't mean that their opinion doesn't matter.  I will call you out if you say something like "in that scene where Penny was wearing the blue dress" and I can prove that she was wearing yellow.  I will engage you if I see an event in the characters lives differently than you do...but anyone should be able come here and express an opinion.  

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3 minutes ago, vonmar said:

You are obviously not married to a Cubs fan.  I have been for years....it's brutal...lol

 

I respectfully disagree.  People are allowed to come here and vent.  It doesn't mean that they are not fans anymore.  It doesn't mean that their opinion doesn't matter.  I will call you out if you say something like "in that scene where Penny was wearing the blue dress" and I can prove that she was wearing yellow.  I will engage you if I see an event in the characters lives differently than you do...but anyone should be able come here and express an opinion.  

Giants fan lol. You missed my point entirely. Debates are gonna happen (disagreements obviously) and I said I enjoy them as much as the next person. Expressing an opinion is fine too, though if someone's opinion is "this show sucks" then I would offer that this forum is not for them.

I merely pointed out the definition of "fan" since this is a "fansite" by title, and how this relates to SOME of the posts that draw fire from others here. And if someone is always pointing out the things the show does wrong without balancing what it does right (and I thing TBBT does a lot right), then the question of whether theybare indeed still a fan of the show is legitimate.

My post/opinion isnt meant to squash ideas and opinions of others in how particular events on the show transpire, or to suggest my opinions are better or more relevant than anyone else's. I do, however, wonder what SOME folks hope to accomplish by poking the bear with every post and why they bother on what is supposed to be a fan site.

Cheers!

 

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7 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

Giants fan lol. You missed my point entirely. Debates are gonna happen (disagreements obviously) and I said I enjoy them as much as the next person. Expressing an opinion is fine too, though if someone's opinion is "this show sucks" then I would offer that this forum is not for them.

I merely pointed out the definition of "fan" since this is a "fansite" by title, and how this relates to SOME of the posts that draw fire from others here. And if someone is always pointing out the things the show does wrong without balancing what it does right (and I thing TBBT does a lot right), then the question of whether theybare indeed still a fan of the show is legitimate.

My post/opinion isnt meant to squash ideas and opinions of others in how particular events on the show transpire, or to suggest my opinions are better or more relevant than anyone else's. I do, however, wonder what SOME folks hope to accomplish by poking the bear with every post and why they bother on what is supposed to be a fan site.

Cheers!

 

Because, quite simply they are "fans of the show" who are unhappy with the path the show is taking. That doesn't mean that they are not fans.  Why do they have to "balance" their complaints?  Why can't they just complain? 

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On the subject of negative  vs. positive posts I have some opinions. 

Today it got crazy in here. I only know that be ause I get an email everytime someone posts. Why an email? So I don't have to come in here unless something noteworthy is happening. Otherwise I just delete the crap that does'nt interest me. I also don't get an email about people who,I have blocked. Sadly that list has gotten very long. 

I used to love coming on the forum. I liked puking rainbows on things that made us happy. I liked breathing fire on things that made us mad. Until the breathing fire got out of hand and it started taking away my enjoyment of the show.

Lots of people feel the same. Surely the thinning of posting is being felt everywhere. Its because instead of going to the forum to talk about our favorite show. We have searched out other places and other people to discuss it with. More like minded people. Surely the negative nellies also have their private places to vent the same as us rainbow barfers?

I love a lively debate. I vehemently dislike seeing friends being ridiculed for posting an opinion. 

I guess I just miss the old days. The happy speculation and the lively discussion. 

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9 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Because, quite simply they are "fans of the show" who are unhappy with the path the show is taking. That doesn't mean that they are not fans.  Why do they have to "balance" their complaints?  Why can't they just complain? 

Nothings says anyone can't, as some people demonstrate. As I already said, those who choose to complain ALL the time with nothing to offer in support of the show leads others (like myself) to wonder if they are a "fan" and to question why they watch the show much less post on a "fan site". Maybe the definition of what a fan is differs individually, I merely copied it from dictionary. com and happen to agree with it.

Now, I happen to enjoy some of the very articulate posts even when I disagree and even when I think the poster is one if these folks that I personally label as "negative". I don't normally engage them in bickering because there isn't a point. That being said, I do understand though why others here who are fans of the show get irritated. And I offered up my post as my take on why this is so. 

If it doesn't jive with how you feel about it then I respect that.

 

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Long story short...just waiting for spoilers or something to switch things to another topic.

I enjoy the forum, generally always have for years now. I've been involved in my fair share of debates but I'm also a pretty realistic optomistic shipper and I refuse to hate on other ships and such. I mainly stay on my ships board to avoid "debates" that turn into drama.

I still love & enjoy the show and will continue to do so.

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I'm sorry if anything I've posted felt like I was hating on those with different opinions than mine, it's in no way my intention. It's just that inside and outside this forum from just this summer alone, I've seen a lot of negative rants, which have spiraled into hating not only the show but supporters of it. (talking in general not any one specific event) This discussion was just the last straw for me, which I know isn't fair for some  of you. 

I enjoy reading some of the lively debates that have formed here, but I'll admit I get paranoid when I see negative comments because let's face it, this thread can get a little too lively in the debates, and I've now seen the ugly side of forums (and I am not blameless on that account) That's why I don't post often, I remain a reader most of the time because I know I sometimes let my heart run the pen. (I'm a writer who basically gives her soul into everything she writes) 

you see...my head knows that everyone has the right to say what they want, and that I even share some of their frustrations, but I wish I could let my head talk to that passionately feeling heart that beats too loudly when there's even the slightest bit of negativity directed toward something that means so much to me... to see that even the negative comments hold logic and value. (Once I'm rested enough, so I don't misinterpret someone again and see only hate *sigh* been a long week) 

I still hold on to my relentless optimism (sorry guys but it's infinite ) but I'll try not to belittle anyone's opinions in the future. Even unintentionally . 

Here's to hoping that season 10 hold something for everyone. :giverose:

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2 hours ago, 2L344 said:

A "fan" is defined as an enthusiastic supporter or devotee of a sport team, celebrity, or similar. This forum defines itself as a "fansite" in its title, so the assumption is that people posting here are ultimately "fans" of TBBT. I actually enjoy the spirited debates here with fans of the show and have had my opinion swayed from time to time by them.

The debates I enjoy are with people who I have come to know love the show in the end, and those debates usually involve minutia or specific topics about the show (like if the breakup was necessary, or is Raj being a DB by dating Emily again). We may differ in our opinions and ideas about particulars but the one thing we have in common is love for the show after 9 seasons, warts and all.

There are some people, though, who bring the negativity with every post and never seem to end them with anything positive to show they are still a "fan", as if they once were one but are not anymore. The show is in its 10th season now and hasnt been S1-S3 for a while. A lot has happened.

If someone is a fan of the show then this is the site for them! If someone once was a fan but things changed then thats okay, but maybe this site isnt for those folks. I think some of the heated and emotional potshots people take on this forum have a lot to do with perceptions that some posts are not part of the collective "enthusiastic support and devotion" that a fanbase is supposed to have. Im not singling out any particular person on here not do I want to suggest that differing opinions are "negative", but this is my perception of SOME of the postings that tend to draw the ire of others.

Its like attending a baseball game with someone who purports to be a fan of your team but criticizes the players and coaching staff in every inning. You begin to question if they are truly a fan... 

 
 

I disagree. Sometimes a fan can be a person who used to love a thing truly but deeply disappointed with its current situation, but still not disappointed enough to give up on it. It's like there's this football team many of my friends are fans of. I rarely hear them say positive things about the team because the team, well, sucks. But they still watch every game, they follow news of the team. They buy expensive match tickets even though they know the team will perform badly. They get super excited with every score and super angry with every loss.

Some members on the forum became a fan because of the first few seasons and got disappointed with the show's past few seasons. But they still keep watching the show (or they wouldn't know what to argue about) They still love some of the characters. They even buy overcharged t-shirts on the show's website. To me they're still fans, despite what others think about them. And I'm sure CBS would certainly categorize them as fans.

Also, tbh I have never seen a member who "never" has anything positive to say about the show. Even those who rant for pages, I've seen them praise some aspects of certain episodes.

I do agree too much negativity on shipping thread would cause other members' discomfort. So I think the forum rules are necessary. If we find posts that are not Shamy supportive, we should just report them and get them removed instead of replying to it. 

I guess what I want to say is as long as a member follows the rules of the forum, he/she is the only person who has the right to judge whether he/she is a "fan" or not, whether he/she should continue watching the show, thus he/she is free to post whatever on his/her mind on the right thread.

Edited by camelliayao
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38 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

I disagree. Sometimes a fan can be a person who used to love a thing truly but deeply disappointed with its current situation, but still not disappointed enough to give up on it. It's like there's this football team many of my friends are fans of. I rarely hear them say positive things about the team because the team, well, sucks. But they still watch every game, they follow news of the team. They buy expensive match tickets even though they know the team will perform badly. They get super excited with every score and super angry with every loss.

Some members on the forum became a fan because of the first few seasons and got disappointed with the show's past few seasons. But they still keep watching the show (or they wouldn't know what to argue about) They still love some of the characters. They even buy overcharged t-shirts on the show's website. To me they're still fans, despite what others think about them. And I'm sure CBS would certainly categorize them as fans.

Also, tbh I have never seen a member who "never" has anything positive to say about the show. Even those who rant for pages, I've seen them praise some aspects of certain episodes.

I do agree too much negativity on shipping thread would cause other members' discomfort. So I think the forum rules are necessary. If we find posts that are not Shamy supportive, we should just report them and get them removed instead of replying to it. 

I guess what I want to say is as long as a member follows the rules of the forum, he/she is the only person who has the right to judge whether he/she is a "fan" or not, whether he/she should continue watching the show, thus he/she is free to post whatever on his/her mind on the right thread.

Like I said, perhaps the definition of what a "fan" is differs with each individual, I merely agree with the one I posted. But like you point out, your friends celebrate victories in addition to lamenting losses. I think there are those here who dont celebrate the victories and instead concentrate on the perceived losses. And when one does that then others question their "loyalty", if you will, to the team. THAT is the only point I'm trying (unsuccessfully it appears) to make.

If merely watching the show makes one a "fan" despite one's slant on the forum, then I guess the casual viewer is a fan as well. I define a "fan" of anything as someone who is passionate and defends the good of something. But thats just me. People are free to come to their own conclusion about it. People can, as you say, follow the rules and post until their hearts content. 

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 Sigh.  The Season 10 discussion thread is for more general show talk about season 10.  These posts have been moved here, as they are more of a meta discussion about what a fan is, whether the forum is too negative or too unicorns and rainbows, or whether a post manages to fit into someone's neat box of what should be posted.  

Just to clarify, we don't require that every post has to be unicorns and rainbows in the shipping threads.  However, we do expect the post to be supportive.   Nothing but complaints, or flat out negative comments about the ship, or the members, or how the ship is written, are not considered supportive.  

That said if someone wants to complain, about the show, the direction of the show, what they don't like about the show, we do allow those kinds of posts here, in either the discussion thread or the Shipping Lanes thread.

What we don't allow is attacks on other posters.  This includes snarky or highly sarcastic remarks or questioning whether someone should be posting here, if they, in your opinion, don't like the show or if you think what they are posting is negative.  By all means, post your opinion OF THE SHOW.  Don't be negative about another poster's interpretation or opinion.

And remember, if you think a post doesn't comply with the rules, don't reply to it, report it.  Let either me or Tripper (or both of us after some discussion), decide whether a post meets our rules. 

Several of the above posts have been edited to remove the more egregious comments, some are very close to the line.  There may be posts prior to the first post here that some might consider against the rules.  REPORT those, and let us look at them.  Don't reply to them. 

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