Tripper

1024 'The Long Distance Dissonance' (May 11)

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4 minutes ago, Tensor said:

You have some proof otherwise?

 The thing the writers do in the writers room, is to write what Penny and Leonard do in TBBT universe. Without the writers, Leonard and Penny wouldn't talk in TBBT universe. 

The point of a tv show is to watch and interpret what the characters do in universe, the fact that the writers are behind everything goes without saying.

So, in the show, what we see is Leonard and Penny making constant digs towards each other and their own marriage, without the sweetness and good-natured-ness that characterizes the other two couples. Especially Penny, ever since she got married, looks miserable af and like she's given up on life.

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1 minute ago, Judith said:

The point of a tv show is to watch and interpret what the characters do in universe, the fact that the writers are behind everything goes without saying.

So, in the show, what we see is Leonard and Penny making constant digs towards each other and their own marriage, without the sweetness and good-natured-ness that characterizes the other two couples. Especially Penny, ever since she got married, looks miserable af and like she's given up on life.

Which is why there are complaints about how the writers write them.  Yeah, the writers have really screwed up Lenny.  If they would only write them better, she wouldn't look so miserable. 

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2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Which is why there are complaints about how the writers write them.  Yeah, the writers have really screwed up Lenny.  If they would only write them better, she wouldn't look so miserable. 

If Penny had made better life choices, she wouldn't look so miserable.

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1 hour ago, April said:

Ah yes, Doylist vs. Watsonian approach to canon - the eternal struggle!

Tbh I don't see any real struggle here. What I see is playing the writersmadethemdoit!card when the characters do sth people don't like. What's the point in doing that?

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7 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Sheldon saying you and Leonard need go to see a counsellor. Which was uncalled for and out of context. Is not taking a dig at Lennys marrage? Damn you guys well do anything to justify every one of Sheldons actions. It had nothing to do with the topic or conversation. So of course Sheldon was having a dig. 

Your blaming the character for that lol? That is clearly a writing issue. 

This is clearly a writing issue.

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35 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

OMG!!  I can't believe you guys can't see where Sheldon's getting the "you and Leonard need counseling" line from.  Remember Leonard calling Amy to warn her about Ramona?  

"Little late Leonard!"

And Sheldon thinking it's inappropriate for a married man to call Amy late at night.  That's where it came from.

That's what I thought he was talking about too and actually thought it was funny!

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36 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

OMG!!  I can't believe you guys can't see where Sheldon's getting the "you and Leonard need counseling" line from.  Remember Leonard calling Amy to warn her about Ramona?  

"Little late Leonard!"

And Sheldon thinking it's inappropriate for a married man to call Amy late at night.  That's where it came from.

Wasn't Sheldon talking to Penny?  Why would Penny understand what he is talking about. After Sheldons clueless behavior it seems he needs the counseling 

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54 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Wasn't Sheldon talking to Penny?  Why would Penny understand what he is talking about. After Sheldons clueless behavior it seems he needs the counseling 

When Leonard first asks Ramona if she has a boyfriend, Sheldon jumps his shit for asking that in front of Penny, not realizing it's an innocent question on Leonard's part.  Then Leonard calls Amy late at night (it's 3 hours later in New Jersey than in California).   Then after Ramona drives off, Penny tells Sheldon they need to talk and Sheldon says something about Leonard and Amy.  

Edited by Tensor
Removed comments directed at another poster

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2 hours ago, Judith said:

Tbh I don't see any real struggle here. What I see is playing the writersmadethemdoit!card when the characters do sth people don't like. What's the point in doing that?

To me, no matter the character, or what they've done, it's the writers.  Why does Sheldon act like a big giant ass, it's the writers.  Why is Leonard so whiney, it's the writers.  Why is Amy such a doormat, it's the writers.  Why isPenny always making bad life choices, it's the writers.  On the other hand, why was Sheldon so kind to give Halley 25% of his profits to the guidance system, or why does Amy have the patience of a saint, or why is Penny so helpful to the guys, or why does Leonard do all those things for Sheldon.   It's the writers.  Everything is the writers.  There wouldn't be an TBBT In universe, without the writers. 

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2 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

OMG!!  I can't believe you guys can't see where Sheldon's getting the "you and Leonard need counseling" line from.  Remember Leonard calling Amy to warn her about Ramona?  

"Little late Leonard!"

And Sheldon thinking it's inappropriate for a married man to call Amy late at night.  That's where it came from.

And then there's the line outside the building when  Penny wanted to talk to Sheldon,' Is this about Leonard and Amy ? I don't like it either,' when he'd misunderstood the meaning of 'late' . Not to mention earlier when Sheldon thought Leonard was hitting on Ramona when all he'd done was ask her if she had a boyfriend as a conversation-changer.

Edited by joyceraye

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40 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

And then there's the line outside the building when  Penny wanted to talk to Sheldon,' Is this about Leonard and Amy ? I don't like it either,' when he'd misunderstood the meaning of 'late' . Not to mention earlier when Sheldon thought Leonard was hitting on Ramona when all he'd done was ask her if she had a boyfriend as a conversation-changer.

Yeah I said that also in a different post

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1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

Yeah I said that also in a different post

You did. Sometimes it takes me so long to get my post finished, by the time I submit it, someone else has already said the same thing. LOL. It makes me look a bit dim to others but to me it just confirms I'm right. :) 

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5 hours ago, joyceraye said:

You did. Sometimes it takes me so long to get my post finished, by the time I submit it, someone else has already said the same thing. LOL. It makes me look a bit dim to others but to me it just confirms I'm right. :) 

Lol...that's ok.  I hate it when that happens to me too.

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It's ok:

16 hours ago, Tensor said:

Too bad the writers won't let her make those good choices, and write a good episode for her and her husband. 

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

To me, no matter the character, or what they've done, it's the writers.  Why does Sheldon act like a big giant ass, it's the writers.  Why is Leonard so whiney, it's the writers.  Why is Amy such a doormat, it's the writers.  Why isPenny always making bad life choices, it's the writers.  On the other hand, why was Sheldon so kind to give Halley 25% of his profits to the guidance system, or why does Amy have the patience of a saint, or why is Penny so helpful to the guys, or why does Leonard do all those things for Sheldon.   It's the writers.  Everything is the writers.  There wouldn't be an TBBT In universe, without the writers. 

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

Why did Penny propose to Leonard in 7.23? Because her career was going to hell and she was looking for a life saver.

Why does Penny make bad life choices? Because she feels lost and things didn't go according to her plan, so she's looking for the next best thing (Leonard) which is evidently sucking the life out of her.

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

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1 minute ago, Judith said:

It's ok:

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

Not to me.

1 minute ago, Judith said:

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

Or, they write the story to a specific end, and the don't care about specific characters.  

1 minute ago, Judith said:

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Yep, because the writers started him off that way, that was part of the character. 

1 minute ago, Judith said:

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

And she can be a sex starved harpie, if it suits the writers joke, but not the character. 

1 minute ago, Judith said:

Why did Penny propose to Leonard in 7.23? Because her career was going to hell and she was looking for a life saver.

Id say the writers decided to have Penny realize the only thing that makes her happy, is Leonard. 

1 minute ago, Judith said:

Why does Penny make bad life choices? Because she feels lost and things didn't go according to her plan, so she's looking for the next best thing (Leonard) which is evidently sucking the life out of her.

Or because the writers find it doesn't take much to write Penny that way, so they have more time to write Sheldon. 

1 minute ago, Judith said:

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

I also watch and interpret, but with the idea the writers have a specific plot in mind.   See, I know Lorre came in and told the writers to break up Leonard and Penny in season three. Nothing to do with what was happening in universe, but because of a business decision.   Just as they decided to get them back together as part of the 100th episode. Thewritersalwaysmakethemdoit, no matter what the characters are doing. 

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I understood that Sheldon made this comment because of the question to Ramona and call to Amy but the problem is his perception of those things, that led him to make his comment. It is degrading Leonard and Lenny, believing he would cheat and even in front of his wife and even with his best friends' girlfriend. As I said, maybe it was projection (and again by this I'm not saying he intentionally or consciously cheating or anything). Just another example of his disdain towards Leonard. 

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39 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Not to me.

Or, they write the story to a specific end, and the don't care about specific characters.  

Yep, because the writers started him off that way, that was part of the character. 

And she can be a sex starved harpie, if it suits the writers joke, but not the character. 

Id say the writers decided to have Penny realize the only thing that makes her happy, is Leonard. 

Or because the writers find it doesn't take much to write Penny that way, so they have more time to write Sheldon. 

I also watch and interpret, but with the idea the writers have a specific plot in mind.   See, I know Lorre came in and told the writers to break up Leonard and Penny in season three. Nothing to do with what was happening in universe, but because of a business decision.   Just as they decided to get them back together as part of the 100th episode. Thewritersalwaysmakethemdoit, no matter what the characters are doing. 

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

Why did Penny propose to Leonard in 7.23? Because her career was going to hell and she was looking for a life saver.

Why does Penny make bad life choices? Because she feels lost and things didn't go according to her plan, so she's looking for the next best thing (Leonard) which is evidently sucking the life out of her.

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

Eta: Lorre might have told the writers to break Lenny up but in universe it made sense which is all that matters.

The writers make the characters do everything, the other part of the equation is to interpret what the characters do in universe. In the writers room the writers decided to have Penny make bad life choices for certain reasons. In tbbt universe it translates to "she's made bad life choices because she was lost and now she's unhappy with her life because of these choices". In tbbt universe there are no writers so Penny can't be miserable in her marriage because of them.

Edited by Judith

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2 minutes ago, Judith said:

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

Why did Penny propose to Leonard in 7.23? Because her career was going to hell and she was looking for a life saver.

Why does Penny make bad life choices? Because she feels lost and things didn't go according to her plan, so she's looking for the next best thing (Leonard) which is evidently sucking the life out of her.

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

To you it makes sense, not to everybody.

Did Sheldon going swimming with Ramona make sense to they story? Many aruge that it didn't. Likewise, many argue that Penny's general dissatifaction and Lenny's fights don't make sense given what we saw from them in past seasons. 

Also, why are you so sure marrying Leonard was a decision she made because she wanted "a life saver" and that being married to him is sucking the life out of her? I think she would have been much worse without him. I also take her word on not marrying him because she lost the acting job. She had way too serious commiitment issues for her to do that (sober) just because she lost a job. When it was out of frustration and alcohol Leonard turned her down. 

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3 minutes ago, Judith said:

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

The story doesn't make sense to me. To me, the writers don't want to take the time to write a proper story for Leonard and Penny

3 minutes ago, Judith said:

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

But, what if what the writers write, doesn't immerse the audience.  Then they destroy, for those members, the in universe.

 

3 minutes ago, Judith said:

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

These are part of their characters, because that is how the writers created them.  

3 minutes ago, Judith said:

Why does Penny make bad life choices?

Because the writers have decided it's easier to write Penny that way, giving them more time to Sheldon.

3 minutes ago, Judith said:

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

 See, I know Lorre came in and told the writers to break up Leonard and Penny in season three. Nothing to do with what was happening in universe, but because of a business decision.  Just as they decided to get them back together as part of the 100th episode. Thewritersalwaysmakethemdoit, no matter what the characters are doing. 

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3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

 

 

The story doesn't make sense to me. To me, the writers don't want to take the time to write a proper story for Leonard and Penny

But, what if what the writers write, doesn't immerse the audience.  Then they destroy, for those members, the in universe.

 

These are part of their characters, because that is how the writers created them.  

Because the writers have decided it's easier to write Penny that way, giving them more time to Sheldon.

 See, I know Lorre came in and told the writers to break up Leonard and Penny in season three. Nothing to do with what was happening in universe, but because of a business decision.  Just as they decided to get them back together as part of the 100th episode. Thewritersalwaysmakethemdoit, no matter what the characters are doing. 

Like I said, the reasons for the writers writing Penny that way are in the show. It's not that they won't let her, they write her that way because it makes sense to the story.

Like I said, everything in the show is because of the writers but the point of writing a story is to have the audience immersed in the characters and for the characters to have a life of their own inside the story's universe.

Why is Sheldon an ass? It's part of who he is. As we've seen in the show, he can be obnoxious and egotistical.

Why does Amy have the patience of a saint? It's part of her character. She can be very patient and understanding, as evidenced by her behaviour towards Sheldon.

Why did Penny propose to Leonard in 7.23? Because her career was going to hell and she was looking for a life saver.

Why does Penny make bad life choices? Because she feels lost and things didn't go according to her plan, so she's looking for the next best thing (Leonard) which is evidently sucking the life out of her.

See? No mention of thewritersmadethemdoit! anywhere. I just watch the show and interpret what I see/hear.

Eta: Lorre might have told the writers to break Lenny up but in universe it made sense which is all that matters.

The writers make the characters do everything, the other part of the equation is to interpret what the characters do in universe. In the writers room the writers decided to have Penny make bad life choices for certain reasons. In tbbt universe it translates to "she's made bad life choices because she was lost and now she's unhappy with her life because of these choices". In tbbt universe there are no writers so Penny can't be miserable in her marriage because of them.

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