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veejay

In Memory of The Leonard and Penny Saga.

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21 minutes ago, luminous said:

Hehe :icon_cheesygrin: True! I meant you won't find me in a "Dark Lenny" thread for season 11....probably. :icon_wink: If there were a "Lenny after Dark" thread, you would find me there for sure. :icon_cheesygrin:

 

n_0059.gif.873689b2336fd025fd71a22379682f65.gif

Give it a try.  :icon_cheesygrin:

Edited by veejay
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28 minutes ago, luminous said:

Hehe :icon_cheesygrin: True! I meant you won't find me in a "Dark Lenny" thread for season 11....probably. :icon_wink: If there were a "Lenny after Dark" thread, you would find me there for sure. :icon_cheesygrin:

Hold that thought for your next masterpiece :fi_lone_ranger:

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The perfect stuff for the "Dark Lenny Thread".

From an interview with Chuck Lorre, he gave Times Live, published on June 5.  In case you missed it.

Quote

TL: There’s a fan theory that Leonard and Penny may be in some deep relationship trouble. Is a split is on the cards?

CL: Not at the moment, no. It’s very clear that they are very very different people. Their backgrounds, their view of life… they’re extremely different so their relationship is fraught with difficulties in that they see the world very differently. As writers, we believe they love each other dearly, but their difficulties in their relationship, I think will continue.

Yay! :icon_biggrin:

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The perfect stuff for the "Dark Lenny Thread".
From an interview with Chuck Lorre, he gave Times Live, published on June 5.  In case you missed it.
TL: There’s a fan theory that Leonard and Penny may be in some deep relationship trouble. Is a split is on the cards?
CL: Not at the moment, no. It’s very clear that they are very very different people. Their backgrounds, their view of life… they’re extremely different so their relationship is fraught with difficulties in that they see the world very differently. As writers, we believe they love each other dearly, but their difficulties in their relationship, I think will continue.
Yay! :icon_biggrin:

Wow. Looks like a real winner of a season coming up. Thanks for the information

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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4 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Yay! :icon_biggrin:

Wow. Looks like a real winner of a season coming up. Thanks for the information

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

I'm not one bit surprised if this is true, the writers can't/won't write anything else than fights and drama for Lenny. 

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Wow, don't know what to say really.

The one storyline I thought that might be finally addressed in Season 11 might have been Penny's career, but Chuck's comments strongly indicate to me her career if raised again will likely cause further trouble between them with a difference of opinion.

Edited by Jonny
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Just now, Lagernisse said:

I'm not one bit surprised if this is true, the writers can't/won't write anything else than fights and drama for Lenny. 

We'll see. But I'm surprised that Lorre makes such a statement. I would think it's not really helpful in keeping Lenny shippers/fans/friends on board. Then again, he probably thinks these people are no longer important anyway.

 

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I wonder if they really think this story line is funny

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Ugggh. I don't get why they go out of their ways to emphasize Lenny's differences. They have differences, big ones, but they are not THAT different. I mean..."extremely"? "very very"? So why are they on the same page with their reactions so many times? Take for example the scene where the couples react to Raj leaving his appartment. They reacted in the most similar way and agreed so easily and immediately on what to do. The pair (not couple) thay were opppsites on the show were Sheldon and Penny. It's like they are trying to recreate that to some extent with Lenny which is a terrible direction IMO. In a similar way they seem to be trying to recreate some of the Sheldon-Leonard dynamic with Shamy. IMO they should stop being so fixated on their formulas and invest efforts to find new things that fit the characters and their history and are actually funny and not irritating or agonizing. It is a comedy, you know...

They should read some of the comments on their publications... So many complaints about the stupid Lenny fights.

Edited by bfm
s
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I know they are very different people, (probably the most different from each other when it comes to the couples on the show) and it is very much a case of opposites attract. But they seem to argue over really silly things and sometimes I watch an episode, see them argue and then at the end wonder what the fuck they were arguing about in the first place really.

The writers have at times done a really piss poor job in telling the audience what the underlying issues are that week. And I know it's been a major bug bear with fans this season that they very rarely resolve anything, look even the job issue this season that got so much praise from some on the forum had zero resolution. Penny is still in a job she hates, there is no plan going forward tochange that job situation on her part...

Edited by Jonny
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2 minutes ago, Jonny said:

look even the job issue this season that got so much praise from some on the forum had zero resolution. Penny is still in a job she hates, there is no plan going forward...

It got praise (e.g. from me), because we saw Leonard and Penny actually talking to each other about something. Not solving Penny's job issue is another thing.

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7 minutes ago, luminous said:

It got praise (e.g. from me), because we saw Leonard and Penny actually talking to each other about something. Not solving Penny's job issue is another thing.

With respect they talked it out about how right Leonard was, cheesy grin, thumbs up and all. But if I accept that they talked it out it was a very minor example and at the end of it Penny is still in that job i.e. the root cause is still there. The following day/s she wakes up, has breakfast, gets showered and dressed and then goes to a job she doesn't like, flirting with doctors for sales.

It would have been better at the end of the episode that you had a scene instead of the Kitchen Island thumbs up scene you had them sitting on the couch with a hot drink discussing their next options, like Penny perhaps working on her CV and applying for some new jobs. Which would have made sense as it is much easier and better to look for a new job whilst you are currently in one.

I'm expecting another episode this season coming up of her moaning about her job and doing nothing about it whilst arguing with her husband.

And before anyone says I am shitting on her or the couple itself I am clearly not, I want her to find a new job one she likes and one that doesn't cause issues in her relationship.

Edited by Jonny
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2 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I know they are very different people, (probably the most different from each other when it comes to the couples on the show) and it is very much a case of opposites attract. But they seem to argue over really silly things and sometimes I watch an episode, see them argue and then at the end wonder what the fuck they were arguing about in the first place really.

The writers have at times done a really piss poor job in telling the audience what the underlying issues are that week. And I know it's been a major bug bear with fans this season that they very rarely resolve anything, look even the job issue this season that got so much praise from some on the forum had zero resolution. Penny is still in a job she hates, there is no plan going forward...

I do not agree with the opposites attract thing as I see them as different in their hobbies and interests but similar on things like their attitudes towards the people around them and their happennings and sense of humor. It doesn't appear to be much when written but the firat thing is a big one. As I have said many times, I think there are many scenes where you can swap their lines and no one will notice. There are few real "opppsites attract" cases, Lenny, IMO, aren't one of them. It really bugs me that TPTB decided to emphasize their differences and work with that. And I do agree with what you said about their fights - they don't seem to be caused by "different views of life/the world", they start "just because". Molaro's and Lorre's answers appear to me like they are trying to present their poor attempts at humor and zero ideas about what to do with Lenny as something representing deep thought of the characters and human nature. 

About the job thing - the issue itself wasn't resolved (because why not sweep it under the rug again so they can bring it later again for another round of "let's keep Penny unhappy and stagnant"), but at least the issues between them were (we Lennys have really low standards now...).

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Thanks for the post @luminous . I had not seen it.  While I am not happy/over the moon reading this, I'm not quite as bad as I might have been only a month ago.  It looks like they are going to be "that couple".  The couple who bicker in front of others; snipe and jab, making their friends wonder and roll their eyes, taking guesses on how long it will last.  But that is just the thing.  They will be the ones who "air their dirty laundry in public".  While Howard says dismissive things about Bernie behind her back. Spends money without telling her and behaves very often in a detrimental manner, Leonard and Penny are open on most things.  Sheldon and Amy go back and forth between the two types. Sheldon's disdain for Amy's career could be worrisome.

What we have seen so far in reality leaves me with hope.  Think about the miserable ride to Las Vegas.  Leonard dropped his "North Sea Smooch" bomb and Penny thought about it and still went ahead.  As they were waiting in the chapel Leonard offered to postpone things.  It wasn't until the fact that Mandy was "on-site" at work that things turned ugly.  In the end Penny was actually worried that she wasn't intelligent enough to keep Leonard, her hidden lack of confidence more in play than her thinking the her husband would repeat the behavior.

The key thing that Lorre says is  "As writers, we believe they love each other dearly" and they do.  Despite what any other shippers say (my opinion here) Leonard & Penny's love runs deeper and has lasted longer.  It is not the storybook type of love we would like to see, but in the end, I am confident they are going to be fine.  Because they love each other dearly.  

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10 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I know they are very different people, (probably the most different from each other when it comes to the couples on the show) and it is very much a case of opposites attract. But they seem to argue over really silly things and sometimes I watch an episode, see them argue and then at the end wonder what the fuck they were arguing about in the first place really.

The writers have at times done a really piss poor job in telling the audience what the underlying issues are that week. And I know it's been a major bug bear with fans this season that they very rarely resolve anything, look even the job issue this season that got so much praise from some on the forum had zero resolution. Penny is still in a job she hates, there is no plan going forward tochange that job situation on her part...

It must be perfect for the writers to never resolve any of Lenny's problems ,they can easily have the same story arc for Lenny the rest of the series, and focus on more important characters. 

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14 minutes ago, Jonny said:

With respect they talked it out about how right Leonard was, cheesy grin, thumbs up and all. But if I accept that they talked it out it was a very minor example and at the end of it Penny is still in that job i.e. the root cause is still there. The following day/s she wakes up, has breakfast, gets showered and dressed and then goes to a job she doesn't like, flirting with doctors for sales.

It would have been better at the end of the episode that you had a scene instead of the Kitchen Island thumbs up scene you had them sitting on the couch with a hot drink discussing their next options, like Penny perhaps working on her CV and applying for some new jobs. Which would have made sense as it is much easier and better to look for a new job whilst you are currently in one.

I'm expecting another episode this season coming up of her moaning about her job and doing nothing about it whilst arguing with her husband.

Again, we saw Leonard and Penny actually talking to each other about something. I for one liked that ( low standards , you know). Not solving Penny's job issue is another thing.

I hope the writers will do something in season 11 when it comes to Penny's job issue.

Edited by luminous
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23 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Thanks for the post @luminous . I had not seen it.  While I am not happy/over the moon reading this, I'm not quite as bad as I might have been only a month ago.  It looks like they are going to be "that couple".  The couple who bicker in front of others; snipe and jab, making their friends wonder and roll their eyes, taking guesses on how long it will last.  But that is just the thing.  They will be the ones who "air their dirty laundry in public".  While Howard says dismissive things about Bernie behind her back. Spends money without telling her and behaves very often in a detrimental manner, Leonard and Penny are open on most things.  Sheldon and Amy go back and forth between the two types. Sheldon's disdain for Amy's career could be worrisome.

What we have seen so far in reality leaves me with hope.  Think about the miserable ride to Las Vegas.  Leonard dropped his "North Sea Smooch" bomb and Penny thought about it and still went ahead.  As they were waiting in the chapel Leonard offered to postpone things.  It wasn't until the fact that Mandy was "on-site" at work that things turned ugly.  In the end Penny was actually worried that she wasn't intelligent enough to keep Leonard, her hidden lack of confidence more in play than her thinking the her husband would repeat the behavior.

The key thing that Lorre says is  "As writers, we believe they love each other dearly" and they do.  Despite what any other shippers say (my opinion here) Leonard & Penny's love runs deeper and has lasted longer.  It is not the storybook type of love we would like to see, but in the end, I am confident they are going to be fine.  Because they love each other dearly.  

That was a hard "like" for me. I agree with what you are saying but I don't like that idea. I think an important word in your post is "they are going to be". It shows that this is not a logical continuation of their story. They weren't this way, sure they had fights but not unjustified OOC ones and they were resolved. I think the interview shows that they really do not plan a split for them right now, at least not the first half of season 11. However they are planning on keeping them as "the constantly fighting couple" and that, to me, is not true to Lenny.

Edited by bfm
typo
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I've been really focused here.....think about the episode this season where the guys were going to Comi-Con.  Penny had decided she was going to go because it would make Leonard happy, even though she would have an awful time.  Leonard meanwhile was trying to think of anything he could to convince Penny not to go because he knew she would not enjoy herself.  Both acting very selfless.  Would Howard do the same?  How much harder could Sheldon try to convince Amy to go?

My new mantra:  they love each other dearly

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18 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I've been really focused here.....think about the episode this season where the guys were going to Comi-Con.  Penny had decided she was going to go because it would make Leonard happy, even though she would have an awful time.  Leonard meanwhile was trying to think of anything he could to convince Penny not to go because he knew she would not enjoy herself.  Both acting very selfless.  Would Howard do the same?  How much harder could Sheldon try to convince Amy to go?

My new mantra:  they love each other dearly

I liked that episode because I think it showed both how their differences and their similarities. She is not into comic books and sci-fi, he is not into "sports" (rafting is considered sport) but they both really care about each other and don't want the other to get hurt. Not all the characters on the show have the latter characteristic to that degree.

Edited by bfm
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4 minutes ago, bfm said:

That was a hard "like" for me. I agree with what you are saying but I don't like that idea. I think an important word in your post is "they are going to be". It shows that this is not a logical continuation of their story. They weren't this way, sure they had fights but not unjustified OOC ones and they were resolved. I think the interview shows that they really do not plan a split for them right now, at least not the forst half of season 11. However they are planning on keeping them as "the constantly fighting couple" and that, to me, is not true to Lenny.

Understandable @bfm .  I think they are doing this because they have three couples (as well as Raj and the other recurring characters:  Stuart and now Bert) to wedge into the story they are telling.  They have one couple who have been married for five years now (holy cow!) with a new baby, building a household after the loss of a family member.  They have another couple new to the ways of love and relationships with all that has to offer (so many of their situations of late resemble at the core those of Leonard & Penny in years past).  To keep things interesting, they need to do something different with one of the couples.  Logic points to Leonard and Penny. They have for a large part achieved their destiny.  The only thing left for them will be the "smart and beautiful babies" (sorry/not sorry, that was NOT a throw-away line...).

I know this is not the way many want the story to play out, but it appears to be where we are going.  Who knows there may be some great resolutions coming.  I am curious to watch things unfold.

they love each other dearly 

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2 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Understandable @bfm .  I think they are doing this because they have three couples (as well as Raj and the other recurring characters:  Stuart and now Bert) to wedge into the story they are telling.  They have one couple who have been married for five years now (holy cow!) with a new baby, building a household after the loss of a family member.  They have another couple new to the ways of love and relationships with all that has to offer (so many of their situations of late resemble at the core those of Leonard & Penny in years past).  To keep things interesting, they need to do something different with one of the couples.  Logic points to Leonard and Penny. They have for a large part achieved their destiny.  The only thing left for them will be the "smart and beautiful babies" (sorry/not sorry, that was NOT a throw-away line...).

I know this is not the way many want the story to play out, but it appears to be where we are going.  Who knows there may be some great resolutions coming.  I am curious to watch things unfold.

they love each other dearly 

I agree that the only big thing left for Lenny is the baby/babies plot, but I really don't see the reason for the writers to create this stalling with the fights and all kinds of drama plots for Lenny just because there are to many episodes left of the series before they can start the baby plot. To me it feels like the writers don't really wanna try something new ,so they just go with the same old jokes and plots they have always used on Lenny.There are all kinds of stuff that isn't drama or angst before a possible baby plot that Lenny can do. . 

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18 minutes ago, bfm said:

I liked that episode because I think it showed both how their differences and their similarities. She is not into comic books and sci-fi, he is not into "sports" (rafting is considered sport) but they both really care about each other and don't want the other to get hurt. Not all the characters on the show have the latter characteristic to that degree.

Well put!  The selflessness they have toward each other is remarkable.

they love each other dearly

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I do not agree with the opposites attract thing as I see them as different in their hobbies and interests but similar on things like their attitudes towards the people around them and their happennings and sense of humor. It doesn't appear to be much when written but the firat thing is a big one. As I have said many times, I think there are many scenes where you can swap their lines and no one will notice. There are few real "opppsites attract" cases, Lenny, IMO, aren't one of them. It really bugs me that TPTB decided to emphasize their differences and work with that. And I do agree with what you said about their fights - they don't seem to be caused by "different views of life/the world", they start "just because". Molaro's and Lorre's answers appear to me like they are trying to present their poor attempts at humor and zero ideas about what to do with Lenny as something representing deep thought of the characters and human nature. 

About the job thing - the issue itself wasn't resolved (because why not sweep it under the rug again so they can bring it later again for another round of "let's keep Penny unhappy and stagnant"), but at least the issues between them were (we Lennys have really low standards now...).

Exactly this! I have some experience about promotional jibber jabber, but in this case I highly doubt at this times whether the TPTB really know what comedy means.

n_00142.gif.c828e2e42264af85ea0c3be089ae83b8.gif

...but they love each other dearly! (It's only logical. :shy:)

Edited by veejay
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2 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I agree that the only big thing left for Lenny is the baby/babies plot, but I really don't see the reason for the writers to create this stalling with the fights and all kinds of drama plots for Lenny just because there are to many episodes left of the series before they can start the baby plot. To me it feels like the writers don't really wanna try something new ,so they just go with the same old jokes and plots they have always used on Lenny.There are all kinds of stuff that isn't drama or angst before a possible baby plot that Lenny can do. . 

Exactly!

And you know what? I don't think the baby plot would be so terrible that it should not be done. It seems like they see it as a big threat so they won't do it, maybe just have her pregnant/giving birth at the finale. But what are they so afraid of? IMO, they could be creative and make awesome episodes out of it of they made the efforts. Would it be so bad to see Penny with a genius baby? Maybe she will be amazed by the baby's fast development pace while Leonard doesn't get why it is such a huge deal because in his family everybody had that pace. Would it be so bad to see Leonard standing his ground when it comes to the baby, making Sheldon surprised and offended that Leonard does not succumb to his needs anymore? Would it be so bad to see Penny gushing about her baby like crazy while she keeps her cool demeanor about everything else? Would it be so bad to see Sheldon coming up with weird complaints about the baby (e.g., he expected to here her/his cry from his apartment but he can't) I think there are a lot of options there. Lenny are different from Howardette they both can have babies and have interedting original stories. They don't even need to have a baby on set that much, they have a big enough two bedroom apartment they can always say the baby is sleeping in the room or in the crib in the corner of the room which is far enough for a doll to be not too obvious.  

I think TPTB are too afraid so they are keeping them stagnant and fill in stupid pointless fights, which makes things untrue to the characters and unrealistic.

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