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veejay

In Memory of The Leonard and Penny Saga.

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On 24.5.2017 at 3:43 PM, veejay said:

I don't need social media or other sources to watch a formerly hilarious sitcom going down the drain. I have had a long patience with this series, but the "Big Bang" of my exit may be coming soon.
I'm not one of the fans that complain about a dynamic change of the characters. I do, however, have an issue with the decline in the writer's quality and the one-sided weighting on "The world's tallest second grader" aka "The kid with two shirts".
The only good story to tell for Lenny is now heavy relationship drama instead of comedy for them being happy together? I understand happy couples are probably boring, but miserable ones are irritating.
After all these years TPTB don't seem to want to put an effort in moving Lenny forward. It seems they don't know how to write healthy romantic relationships but know how to right the same old rotten jokes.

They really want to surpass 10 seasons with this?

n_00287.gif.a92b3db0e2b48c4b2bdfbfb8549fdaeb.gif

:scratchhead:

And happy couples can sure be interesting and fun! What about Monica and Chandler? Marshall and Lilly? Even Lenny, when given some rare happy times these last two years, were fun! Wearing costumes, dancing around...They could really go with things like that. People wonder what they do besides sex? Have them have some weird hobbies they keep secret from their friends. Maybe they Cosplay (and I mean not just in the bedroom)? Maybe they have a certain online game they plau as a team which is barely known so they also have gatherings with fellow players at times? Maybe they watch shows that the guys think is too "girly" and the girls think is too "nerdy"? Maybe Penny has a secret coin collection and they sometimes go to search for coins to expand it with Leonard's metal detector? Maybe Leonard does Yoga with her but is embarassed so he keeps it from the gang? Maybe they have another group/couple of friends who they don't tell the gang about because they are afraid Sheldon will get jealous? These friends may think Lenny are a lot alike and think that the gang saying they have nothing in common is a joke because they talk with them about things Lenny share their opinions about. It could be all or some of the above and obviously there are other options I didn't think of. TPTB could go there but choose not to. It is easier to have them fighting or keep with tired jokes that are at odds with what is and had been on screen.

Edited by bfm
typo
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Exactly, bfm. They could write tons of stories with them married and have them not be cheap drama. Besides that , there is so much onscreen chemistry between Johnny and Kaley  that when we see Leonard and Penny fighting senselessly, it seems as if they're playing against character. Furthermore when TPTB revert to jokes that would have worked in S1 or S2 it honestly sounds and feels ridiculous. The biggest problem with the writers is lack of focus, complacency, and down right laziness. The issue is that as characters change, the source of humor has to change because whether they want to acknowledge it or not, there are 10 seasons of canon which have to account for something. I know it's a sitcom, but they can't just keep on writing as if it is still S1. Changes have taken place, and while a joke, even a good one, might be funny the first 200 times, after that it becomes a little bit stale, wouldn't you say? 

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@bfm

Oh,of course you right. I can imagine all of this. :shy:
But I'm so tired listening to all of the notorious "shoulda, woulda, coulda" since Season H8.
Subjunctive always in the upwind. Time for sweet dreams or nightmares? :icon_rolleyes:
Rant and rave /end.

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I don't think the writers can't write good stories for lenny or are to lazy to do it. I just think their first and only priority is Sheldon and shamy My guess is that we'll see a lot more shamy in the next 2 seasons with a lot less of the other characters

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

And happy couples can sure be interesting and fun! What about Monica and Chandler? Marshall and Lilly? Even Lenny, when given some rare happy times these last two years, were fun! Wearing costumes, dancing around...They could really go with things like that. People wonder what they do besides sex? Have them have some weird hobbies they keep secret from their friends. Maybe they Cosplay (and I mean not just in the bedroom)? Maybe they have a certain online game they plau as a team which is barely known so they also have gatherings with fellow players at times? Maybe they watch shows that the guys think is too "girly" and the girls think is too "nerdy"? Maybe Penny has a secret coin collection and they sometimes go to search for coins to expand it with Leonard's metal detector? Maybe Leonard does Yoga with her but is embarassed so he keeps it from the gang? Maybe they have another group/couple of friends who they don't tell the gang about because they are afraid Sheldon will get jelous? These friends may think Lenny are a lot alike and think that the gang saying they have nothing in common is a joke because they talk with them about things Lenny share their opinions about. It could be all or some of the above and obviously there are other options I didn't think of. TPTB could go there but choose not to. It is easier to have them fighting or keep with tired jokes that are at odds with what is and had been on screen.

So well said @bfm !

 

I've been thinking a lot about what is going on; the current status of Leonard & Penny.  One thing that has occurred to me is that TPTB (in this case particularly Lorre & Molaro) are doing a sales job. For the past year, they have been marketing Young Sheldon.  This is an all-out sales pitch to the public.  Have interest in the character of Sheldon Cooper rise even higher than it was by putting him front and center in nearly every episode of the "flagship" television show, whetting the audience's appitite for more.  The new show is in development and just to make it even more exciting let's have the person who created the role be involved as an executive producer AND he can even be a narrator.  He's telling the story!!!!  We can have the network put it on the schedule right after our extremely successful show and BINGO!  Lightening can strike twice.  To make everyone talk about it even more, let's do a five minute trailer (I can't remember seeing a trailer that long for a new television show....).

So at the expense of the history and really, the integrity of The Big Bang Theory, this is what we receive.  A marketing ploy.

Any thoughts???

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13 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

So well said ......

Any thoughts???

Yeah, a lot, but not here and now...

o_00448.gif.c9aaefe8a584481d7255837353c13e34.gif

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2 hours ago, veejay said:

I don't need social media or other sources to watch a formerly hilarious sitcom going down the drain. I have had a long patience with this series, but the "Big Bang" of my exit may be coming soon.
I'm not one of the fans that complain about a dynamic change of the characters. I do, however, have an issue with the decline in the writer's quality and the one-sided weighting on "The world's tallest second grader" aka "The kid with two shirts".
The only good story to tell for Lenny is now heavy relationship drama instead of comedy for them being happy together? I understand happy couples are probably boring, but miserable ones are irritating.
After all these years TPTB don't seem to want to put an effort in moving Lenny forward. It seems they don't know how to write healthy romantic relationships but know how to right the same old rotten jokes.

They really want to surpass 10 seasons with this?

Why are you blaming Sheldon for everything ? They still write Howard ,Bernadette and even Penny with the girls and/or Sheldon/Raj  (outside of Lenny) relatively well imo. I know it is very easy to blame Sheldon, but I felt Sheldon always had a prominent focus in TBBT as early as season 2. Why is this news ? I can point you many many Sheldon centric episodes in season 2-4. Sheldon was the breakout character, and also an award winning character back then. Not saying that is good or bad, but to me, tbbt didnt feel like a true ensemble in the early seasons  .

If you read the review for The Cooper Nowitzki Theorem on AV Club from November 3, 2008. it was almost 9 years ago and the reviewer, Noel Murray ,  felt   that tbbt was becoming very  Sheldon driven, even back then too. 

While I agree, they tend to overuse shamy screentime(especially post season 7 ) and i agree that the overall quality has gone down, I still think Howard and Bernadette have gotten nice focus  and I actually think they got funnier this year. 

IMO, Sheldon and Howard have had a lot of depth and character growth. They have changed a lot since the pilot. Penny has changed a lot too. I guess they allow for more writing possibilities.  Whether it was his friendship/fights with Penny,  his career ups and downs , his relationship with Amy and his quirks -that has given many creative plot possibilities for Sheldon over the years. Howard too, to a lesser extent.

I guess my problem lies with Leonard. This is just my opinion, but Leonard as a character, has gotten pretty boring in the last 3 seasons .  He has not changed as much from the begining except now he has got the hot girl and has more "confidence" to cheat (?). Imo, Lenny suffers because they don't wanna explore Leonard and consequently  Lenny beyond the nerd / hot girl dynamic.  

That was fine in season 6, with commitment issues, proposal issues, jealousy issues with Alex and Cole,  ILY etc etc....but many of  those plots won't make sense now.I guess I have the same problem with Raj. 

Edited by serena_1995
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Quote

I do, however, have an issue with the decline in the writer's quality and the one-sided weighting...

 

7 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

While I agree, they tend to overuse shamy screentime(especially post season 7 ) and i agree that the overall quality has gone down, I still think Howard and Bernadette have gotten nice focus  and I actually think they got funnier this year.

That confirms my personal impression too but I was talking about Lenny. :icon_wink:

Quote

I'm not one of the fans that complain about a dynamic change of the characters.

So our opinion seems not to be much different at all. :shy:

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2 hours ago, Carlos said:

Exactly, bfm. They could write tons of stories with them married and have them not be cheap drama. Besides that , there is so much onscreen chemistry between Johnny and Kaley  that when we see Leonard and Penny fighting senselessly, it seems as if they're playing against character. Furthermore when TPTB revert to jokes that would have worked in S1 or S2 it honestly sounds and feels ridiculous. The biggest problem with the writers is lack of focus, complacency, and down right laziness. The issue is that as characters change, the source of humor has to change because whether they want to acknowledge it or not, there are 10 seasons of canon which have to account for something. I know it's a sitcom, but they can't just keep on writing as if it is still S1. Changes have taken place, and while a joke, even a good one, might be funny the first 200 times, after that it becomes a little bit stale, wouldn't you say? 

Agree! And about the bold part I think a good example is the weird little bickering in the finale. It was so weird, I felt like Johnny and Kaley didn't really know how to play it because it didn't fit in their dynamic.

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

Agree! And about the bold part I think a good example is the weird little bickering in the finale. It was so weird, I felt like Johnny and Kaley didn't really know how to play it because it didn't fit in their dynamic.

I had to LOL now.

n_00370.gif.7b1d6f82ce4bc2e44d86ecb231e9e513.gif

I guess I found a peculiar little evidence about your thesis.

Edited by veejay
I think I had to clear things up about the laughing. SARCASM!

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7 hours ago, veejay said:

I don't need social media or other sources to watch a formerly hilarious sitcom going down the drain. I have had a long patience with this series, but the "Big Bang" of my exit may be coming soon.
I'm not one of the fans that complain about a dynamic change of the characters. I do, however, have an issue with the decline in the writer's quality and the one-sided weighting on "The world's tallest second grader" aka "The kid with two shirts".
The only good story to tell for Lenny is now heavy relationship drama instead of comedy for them being happy together? I understand happy couples are probably boring, but miserable ones are irritating.
After all these years TPTB don't seem to want to put an effort in moving Lenny forward. It seems they don't know how to write healthy romantic relationships but know how to right the same old rotten jokes.

They really want to surpass 10 seasons with this?

n_00287.gif.a92b3db0e2b48c4b2bdfbfb8549fdaeb.gif

:scratchhead:

I highly doubt that these writers knows how to write a ordinary happy couple to be honest. There were the same problem with Howardette, before their pregnancy arc.

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7 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

 They still write Howard ,Bernadette and even Penny with the girls and/or Sheldon/Raj  (outside of Lenny) relatively well imo. I know it is very easy to blame Sheldon, but I felt Sheldon always had a prominent focus in TBBT as early as season 2. Why is this news ? I can point you many many Sheldon centric episodes in season 2-4. Sheldon was the breakout character, and also an award winning character back then. Not saying that is good or bad, but to me, tbbt didnt feel like a true ensemble in the early seasons  .

If you read the review for The Cooper Nowitzki Theorem on AV Club from November 3, 2008. it was almost 9 years ago and the reviewer, Noel Murray ,  felt   that tbbt was becoming very  Sheldon driven, even back then too. 

While I agree, they tend to overuse shamy screentime(especially post season 7 ) and i agree that the overall quality has gone down, I still think Howard and Bernadette have gotten nice focus  and I actually think they got funnier this year. 

IMO, Sheldon and Howard have had a lot of depth and character growth. They have changed a lot since the pilot. Penny has changed a lot too. I guess they allow for more writing possibilities.  Whether it was his friendship/fights with Penny,  his career ups and downs , his relationship with Amy and his quirks -that has given many creative plot possibilities for Sheldon over the years. Howard too, to a lesser extent.

I guess my problem lies with Leonard. This is just my opinion, but Leonard as a character, has gotten pretty boring in the last 3 seasons .  He has not changed as much from the begining except now he has got the hot girl and has more "confidence" to cheat (?). Imo, Lenny suffers because they don't wanna explore Leonard and consequently  Lenny beyond the nerd / hot girl dynamic.  

That was fine in season 6, with commitment issues, proposal issues, jealousy issues with Alex and Cole,  ILY etc etc....but many of  those plots won't make sense now.I guess I have the same problem with Raj. 

I for one don't think the problem is Sheldon, it's Amy. Sheldon is still a great comic character without Amy, but Shamy is boring at best. Whereas KC and JG have terrific onscreen chemistry, Shamy have zero. And it's not JP's fault - he had chemistry wth CB as Beverley, and Sheldon and Penny always had great chemistry - mostly not sexual except when the sich wasn't real, eg the actually pretty hot Sheldon-Penny kiss in Leonard's dream in one of the early eps of S9.

This is all self-evident. Which makes it inexplicable that Shamy have been made the romantic lead, to the exclusion of the most exciting couple. How can anyone care about Shamy?

As for the future of Lenny, I just want to see more of them. I wouldn't mind if they divorced so long as their getting back together was the main storyline for at least a season, to the exclusion of all this Shamy dross. There are a number of films and plays about a divorced couple coming to realise that they are the only ones for each other. When I've finished this I'll watch The Philadelphia Story again.

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Yes I felt around Season 7. When they made the decision to shift the show to Shamy being the romantic leads. And The Romantic Hero and Herione of the series. And relegating Lenny and Johnny and Kaley to a supporting role. I have no idea who made that decision. I always thought Shamy were better as this alernative, quirky couple. You need to attract peoples mainstream sensibilities. That is Lenny. I mean I don't have any figures. But I have a feeling most of the audience who were watching from 2007-2011 have tuned out. Dragging out Lenny getting married, Shamy having sex. Just tuned out a subset of the audience who never returned. Most likely outgrown the show. Which I think most of us have. 

 So yeah I would agree the problem is Amy. Has been for a long time. I love Mayim. And I do like Amy. But in a comedy sense. I do find her dull and boring. Jim and Mayim just don't have any on screen chemistry. i know I know Shamy and Mayjim fans right now are chasing me with pitch forks hahaha. But from a comical stand point, they just don't. So I agree it was inexplicable that they made Shamy the romantic lead. I mean going on Social Media I don't think anyone cares about Shamy. I see mostly everyone asking for more Lenny. But unless things change in S11. That ship has sailed. I don't see them getting divorced though. I mean if they were going to get divorced, they would of by now. Last time they broke up was S3. And CBS Sitcom Marrages rarely get divorced. 

ETA: Some one mentioned S8 or S Hate. That S8 finalie may possibly top S4 finalie. For absloute abandoment, and absolute recklessness. The fact that, story made it out of the writers room. And who ever came up with the idea of Leonard cheating, and lying about it for two years, even working with her. Should of been fired on the spot. I mean genius! This well make up for this bad season, we well get our audiene back were geniuses!

I remember seeing a video on youtube, those top ten ones. Top ten decisions writers should be fired for. Lenny S8 finalie was #1 :sarcastichand:. The writer who ever responsible for that haneous crime. Should oof at least been shut down straight away. As it is it was prob Lorre lol. So that was not going to happen. The fact it made it on tv. In the first place. MY God, how embarrasing. We all know it was just fake drama to counter the Shamy break up. They are clearly willing to push their protagonist Leonard down a stream without a paddle. For a snickers wrapper lol. Since then I have just had a sour taste in my mouth in regards to this show. Apart from all the other 1000 reasons why this show has gone down hill fast. S8 finalie is at the core of it. Do you have a time machine? Can we go back to 6.24. And tell them to marry Lenny. OR don't marry them lol. Nope. To me that was the start of character assaination. If they got a machine gun and killed Leonard. Hell if they actually killed Leonard off in the S8 finalie. That would be a better outcome then what we got. IT was that bad. 

And now we have to put up with incongruous jokes. That make no sense, nor are they funny. Simply because of how far they have developed both characters. Like Wore me down jokes. Leonard is a lazy husband. Penny is a digruntled housewife. Do those characterizations really fit Lenny? I mean if someone told me in Season 6. When Lenny get married. Penny would be deconstructed to his domesitcated, depressed housewife. I woulden't beleive you. I seriousley would not. I expect her to be a fun wife. Not this watered down, shadow of her former self. Leonard too. He has changed. Too.

Edited by 3ku11
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12 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

I've been thinking a lot about what is going on; the current status of Leonard & Penny.  One thing that has occurred to me is that TPTB (in this case particularly Lorre & Molaro) are doing a sales job. For the past year, they have been marketing Young Sheldon.  This is an all-out sales pitch to the public.  Have interest in the character of Sheldon Cooper rise even higher than it was by putting him front and center in nearly every episode of the "flagship" television show, whetting the audience's appitite for more.  The new show is in development and just to make it even more exciting let's have the person who created the role be involved as an executive producer AND he can even be a narrator.  He's telling the story!!!!  We can have the network put it on the schedule right after our extremely successful show and BINGO!  Lightening can strike twice.  To make everyone talk about it even more, let's do a five minute trailer (I can't remember seeing a trailer that long for a new television show....).

So at the expense of the history and really, the integrity of The Big Bang Theory, this is what we receive.  A marketing ploy.

Any thoughts???

I think your observation is a valid one even if I hadn't thought of it that way, but TBH, it makes sense (for them). In my case, (you know I'm a Lenny through and through) I actually think they are doing a disservice to Sheldon. There can actually be too much of a good thing, or what to me amounts as overkill. If to that you add the fact that the new series doesn't appear to TBBT canon, and you've got a mess all over. I don't know if by doing what they're doing they're whetting the audience's appetite or actually saturating it. At this stage I don't think that TPTB have any kind of artistic integrity left more than trying to bleed the last red cent out of the show, which is, unfortunately a modus operandi of Chuck Lorre's shows as it was the case with 2 1/2 men.

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I remember Charlie Sheen saying "You don't want to get stuck in yourself". That is exactly what has happened. Their is a chance Sheldon could be oversaturated. From a marketing stand point. Why woulden't they produced a Sheldon Centric show. To coincide with the Young Sheldon Prequel on around the same time. Unfortuanately that means the rest of your show and it's characters become cannon fodder. 

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16 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

Why are you blaming Sheldon for everything ? They still write Howard ,Bernadette and even Penny with the girls and/or Sheldon/Raj  (outside of Lenny) relatively well imo. I know it is very easy to blame Sheldon, but I felt Sheldon always had a prominent focus in TBBT as early as season 2. Why is this news ? I can point you many many Sheldon centric episodes in season 2-4. Sheldon was the breakout character, and also an award winning character back then. Not saying that is good or bad, but to me, tbbt didnt feel like a true ensemble in the early seasons  .

If you read the review for The Cooper Nowitzki Theorem on AV Club from November 3, 2008. it was almost 9 years ago and the reviewer, Noel Murray ,  felt   that tbbt was becoming very  Sheldon driven, even back then too. 

While I agree, they tend to overuse shamy screentime(especially post season 7 ) and i agree that the overall quality has gone down, I still think Howard and Bernadette have gotten nice focus  and I actually think they got funnier this year. 

IMO, Sheldon and Howard have had a lot of depth and character growth. They have changed a lot since the pilot. Penny has changed a lot too. I guess they allow for more writing possibilities.  Whether it was his friendship/fights with Penny,  his career ups and downs , his relationship with Amy and his quirks -that has given many creative plot possibilities for Sheldon over the years. Howard too, to a lesser extent.

I guess my problem lies with Leonard. This is just my opinion, but Leonard as a character, has gotten pretty boring in the last 3 seasons .  He has not changed as much from the begining except now he has got the hot girl and has more "confidence" to cheat (?). Imo, Lenny suffers because they don't wanna explore Leonard and consequently  Lenny beyond the nerd / hot girl dynamic.  

That was fine in season 6, with commitment issues, proposal issues, jealousy issues with Alex and Cole,  ILY etc etc....but many of  those plots won't make sense now.I guess I have the same problem with Raj. 

First of all, I don't blame characters or actors, I blame the writers. While it is true that Sheldon had a lot of focus on him since the beginning, they used to leave enough for the rest. I think as the show went on the focus on Sheldon grew larger, especially since 7×24, to the point that it went from an unbalanced show to a show with a complete pack of balance, The Sheldon Show. I love Howardette this season and I don't think there is too much focus on them. I am not upset with other characters recieving good stories, I am upset with the writers giving way too much focus and to Sheldon, and many times making Lenny look bad to elevate him. They are clearly not interested in Lenny and are willing to throw them, especially Leonard under the bus. @3ku11 described well how bad the season hate finale was. As I said in the season DT some of the problem could be that they are "too normal" now so the writers lost interest (of course I DO NOT agree that Leonard's developmemt concludes to "he became confident to cheat". I think he became more confident, the boat kiss is should not be the parameter for his development, it was a writing trainwreck). I also said that I believe that if they made the efforts they could have found new sources of comedy for them which are not a total mismatch with their history and would not work only if we imagine it is season 1 or if we imagine they are different characters.

As for Shamy I think they have many fans. I also think their kisses and touches are awkward on purpose, it is part of their characters - physical intimacy does not come easily for them even though they seem to enjoy it. 

I agree very much with @Carlos

4 hours ago, Carlos said:

I think your observation is a valid one even if I hadn't thought of it that way, but TBH, it makes sense (for them). In my case, (you know I'm a Lenny through and through) I actually think they are doing a disservice to Sheldon. There can actually be too much of a good thing, or what to me amounts as overkill. If to that you add the fact that the new series doesn't appear to TBBT canon, and you've got a mess all over. I don't know if by doing what they're doing they're whetting the audience's appetite or actually saturating it. At this stage I don't think that TPTB have any kind of artistic integrity left more than trying to bleed the last red cent out of the show, which is, unfortunately a modus operandi of Chuck Lorre's shows as it was the case with 2 1/2 men.

I am not a Sheldon hater. I'd say I generally like him. I am also a Shamy supporter. However, the last three years and especially this year they have pushed Sheldon way too much. I feel like they are pushing him into my face and I'm getting sick and tired of him. It's sad because I did enjoy him. 

Edited by bfm
Posted accidentally before finishing
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This thread is a haven for the disgruntled Lenny shippers. Why are Sheldon fans coming in here defending him anyway lol. 

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39 minutes ago, bfm said:

......

I am not a Sheldon hater. I'd say I generally like him. I am also a Shamy supporter. However, the last three years and especially this year they have pushed Sheldon way too much. I feel like they are pushing him into my face and I'm getting sick and tired of him. It's sad because I did enjoy him. 

This is it! It changed the dynamic of TBBT away too much.

yeah1.gif.3a10488d98b325410b55c8f1ce14b62d.gif

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Ugh Short Hair lol. 

Thing with Sheldon is change in dynamic yes. He used to be kinda the straight man in a way. When he was reacting to Leonard. IT is when the show was great. He was just some guy the characters had to put up with. Now he takes up alot of room. I think they saw the characters popularity. And decided to push him. Not realizing. It was his relationships with Leonard and the guys, and Penny, and Amy, and everyone else that made him so much more endering. The fact they put up with this guy. Especially Leonard. It makes you think why? IT was charming lol. Recent episode last season as it is now. Property Division is it. Sheldon made a homeless person played by Christopher Llyod. The Doc! I mean, are they kidding? You spend all that money... Anyway. And Lenny just took it. Sheldon's behaviour has become intolerable. But what is even more outrageous is his friends enabling of it. They are just as guilty. The beleivablity of the show has become an issue for me. They write Lenny like they are some kinda inconvineince. I miss how Lenny would have this secret code, and unspoken language. Where Leonard would be like I well tell you later. Imagined them having secret conversations to 3 am haha. Problem is the writing not the acting. Monica and Chandler got great married life plots. It helped that their was more of a balance in the show. Their is just not a lot of room left in the show for anything else when it is so revolved around one character. And now that is not hating on Sheldon, that is just more of a reflection on the writing changing. 

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26 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Ugh Short Hair lol. 

Thing with Sheldon is change in dynamic yes. He used to be kinda the straight man in a way. When he was reacting to Leonard. IT is when the show was great. He was just some guy the characters had to put up with. Now he takes up alot of room. I think they saw the characters popularity. And decided to push him. Not realizing. It was his relationships with Leonard and the guys, and Penny, and Amy, and everyone else that made him so much more endering. The fact they put up with this guy. Especially Leonard. It makes you think why? IT was charming lol. Recent episode last season as it is now. Property Division is it. Sheldon made a homeless person played by Christopher Llyod. The Doc! I mean, are they kidding? You spend all that money... Anyway. And Lenny just took it. Sheldon's behaviour has become intolerable. But what is even more outrageous is his friends enabling of it. They are just as guilty. The beleivablity of the show has become an issue for me. They write Lenny like they are some kinda inconvineince. I miss how Lenny would have this secret code, and unspoken language. Where Leonard would be like I well tell you later. Imagined them having secret conversations to 3 am haha. Problem is the writing not the acting. Monica and Chandler got great married life plots. It helped that their was more of a balance in the show. Their is just not a lot of room left in the show for anything else when it is so revolved around one character. And now that is not hating on Sheldon, that is just more of a reflection on the writing changing. 

Ok, I should have taken you into this hairy situation. I'll give you a different "Yeah".  :icon_cheesygrin:

yeah2.gif.bba6f0efb7bf0f7509d19bc89546b100.gif

Edited by veejay
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21 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

I guess my problem lies with Leonard. This is just my opinion, but Leonard as a character, has gotten pretty boring in the last 3 seasons .  He has not changed as much from the begining except now he has got the hot girl and has more "confidence" to cheat (?). Imo, Lenny suffers because they don't wanna explore Leonard and consequently  Lenny beyond the nerd / hot girl dynamic.  

You're right it is your opinion,but saying Leonard is boring is also subjective, while you find Leonard boring i see him as being the most normal and grounded of the guys which to me doesn't make him boring.While agree they could and should explore Leonard's character more, also in my opinion Sheldon's idiosyncrasies have become boring to me, doesn't mean he is to you and others just like Leonard isn't boring to me and others.

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6 hours ago, bfm said:

First of all, I don't blame characters or actors, I blame the writers. While it is true that Sheldon had a lot of focus on him since the beginning, they used to leave enough for the rest. I think as the show went on the focus on Sheldon grew larger, especially since 7×24, to the point that it went from an unbalanced show to a show with a complete pack of balance, The Sheldon Show. I love Howardette this season and I don't think there is too much focus on them. I am not upset with other characters recieving good stories, I am upset with the writers giving way too much focus and to Sheldon, and many times making Lenny look bad to elevate him. They are clearly not interested in Lenny and are willing to throw them, especially Leonard under the bus. @3ku11 described well how bad the season hate finale was. As I said in the season DT some of the problem could be that they are "too normal" now so the writers lost interest (of course I DO NOT agree that Leonard's developmemt concludes to "he became confident to cheat". I think he became more confident, the boat kiss is should not be the parameter for his development, it was a writing trainwreck). I also said that I believe that if they made the efforts they could have found new sources of comedy for them which are not a total mismatch with their history and would not work only if we imagine it is season 1 or if we imagine they are different characters.

As for Shamy I think they have many fans. I also think their kisses and touches are awkward on purpose, it is part of their characters - physical intimacy does not come easily for them even though they seem to enjoy it. 

I agree very much with @Carlos

I am not a Sheldon hater. I'd say I generally like him. I am also a Shamy supporter. However, the last three years and especially this year they have pushed Sheldon way too much. I feel like they are pushing him into my face and I'm getting sick and tired of him. It's sad because I did enjoy him. 

 Thank you, bfm  I was going to answer serena but you did it better than I would have.

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6 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

This thread is a haven for the disgruntled Lenny shippers. Why are Sheldon fans coming in here defending him anyway lol. 

Yeah. I know. That surprised me too. Maybe it's because we're not listed as a 'Ship Zone'? 

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35 minutes ago, Carlos said:

 Thank you, bfm  I was going to answer serena but you did it better than I would have.

Not sure about that but you're welcome :) We Lennys work best as a team don't we? 

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1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

You're right it is your opinion,but saying Leonard is boring is also subjective, while you find Leonard boring i see him as being the most normal and grounded of the guys which to me doesn't make him boring.While agree they could and should explore Leonard's character more, also in my opinion Sheldon's idiosyncrasies have become boring to me, doesn't mean he is to you and others just like Leonard isn't boring to me and others.

 

 my problem is with how Leonard is written. The writers more often than not, treated Leonard  as just a vehicle to get the " hot girl " from the beginning.   They don't  seem to explore more, atleast not nearly as much as they have with Sheldon and Howard.  Now that Leonard's romantic life/will they -wont - they drama  (which  imo was the major focus of Leonard centric plots in the previous seasons) has resolved and he got Penny, they don't know what to do with him.That is what is boring to me. 

And Fyi, ofcourse, a character can lack strange quirks and still be interesting.

I find Penny to be a much more interesting and full fledged character, than Leonard. All this is how I view the show and my interpretation .

Edited by serena_1995
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