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Tensor

Season 10-11 Hiatus Thread

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6 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

What part do you disagree with?  Much of that comes from the DSM V.  Do you object to the criteria or it's application to Sheldon? 

Applying it to Sheldon...my diagnosis would be the following...

What Is Asperger Syndrome?

Asperger syndrome is one of several previously separate subtypes of autism that were folded into the single diagnosis autism spectrum disorder (ASD) with the publication of the DSM-5 diagnostic manual in 2013.

Asperger syndrome was generally considered to be on the “high functioning” end of the spectrum. Affected children and adults have difficulty with social interactions and exhibit a restricted range of interests and/or repetitive behaviors. Motor development may be delayed, leading to clumsiness or uncoordinated motor movements. Compared with those affected by other forms of ASD, however, those with Asperger syndrome do not have significant delays or difficulties in language or cognitive development. Some even demonstrate precocious vocabulary – often in a highly specialized field of interest.

as1.jpg

The following behaviors are often associated with Asperger syndrome. However, they are seldom all present in any one individual and vary widely in degree:

• limited or inappropriate social interactions
• "robotic" or repetitive speech
• challenges with nonverbal communication (gestures, facial expression, etc.) coupled with average to above average verbal skills
• tendency to discuss self rather than others
• inability to understand social/emotional issues or nonliteral phrases
• lack of eye contact or reciprocal conversation
• obsession with specific, often unusual, topics
• one-sided conversations
• awkward movements and/or mannerisms

How is Asperger Syndrome diagnosed?

Asperger syndrome often remains undiagnosed until a child or adult begins to have serious difficulties in school, the workplace or their personal lives. Indeed, many adults with Asperger syndrome receive their diagnosis when seeking help for related issues such as anxiety or depression. Diagnosis tends to center primarily on difficulties with social interactions.

Children with Asperger syndrome tend to show typical or even exceptional language development. However, many tend to use their language skills inappropriately or awkwardly in conversations or social situations such as interacting with their peers. Often, the symptoms of Asperger syndrome are confused with those of other behavioral issues such as attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Indeed, many persons affected by Asperger syndrome are initially diagnosed with ADHD until it becomes clear that their difficulties stem more from an inability to socialize than an inability to focus their attention.

For instance, someone with Asperger syndrome might initiate conversations with others by extensively relating facts related to a particular topic of interest. He or she may resist discussing anything else and have difficulty allowing others to speak. Often, they don’t notice that others are no longer listening or are uncomfortable with the topic. They may lack the ability to “see things” from the other person’s perspective.

Another common symptom is an inability to understand the intent behind another person’s actions, words and behaviors. So children and adults affected by Asperger syndrome may miss humor and other implications. Similarly, they may not instinctually respond to such “universal” nonverbal cues such as a smile, frown or “come here” motion.

For these reasons, social interactions can seem confusing and overwhelming to individuals with Asperger syndrome. Difficulties in seeing things from another person's perspective can make it extremely difficult to predict or understand the actions of others. They may not pick up on what is or isn’t appropriate in a particular situation. For instance, someone with Asperger syndrome might speak too loudly when entering a church service or a room with a sleeping baby – and not understand when “shushed.”

Some individuals with Asperger syndrome have a peculiar manner of speaking. This can involve speaking overly loud, in a monotone or with an unusual intonation. It is also common, but not universal, for people with Asperger syndrome to have difficulty controlling their emotions. They may cry or laugh easily or at inappropriate times.

Another common, but not universal, sign is an awkwardness or delay in motor skills. As children, in particular, they may have difficulties on the playground because they can’t catch a ball or understand how to swing on the monkey bars despite their peers’ repeated attempts to teach them.

Not all individuals with Asperger syndrome display all of these behaviors. In addition, each of these symptoms tends to vary widely among affected individuals.

It is very important to note that the challenges presented by Asperger Syndrome are very often accompanied by unique gifts. Indeed, a remarkable ability for intense focus is a common trait.

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1 hour ago, JE7 said:

These individuals may also be irresponsible and exploitative in their sexual relationships.

No.

1 hour ago, JE7 said:

Antisocial personality disorder is a disorder that is characterized by a long-standing pattern of disregard for other people’s rights, often crossing the line and violating those rights. A person with antisocial personality disorder (APD) often feels little or no empathy toward other people, and doesn’t see the problem in bending or breaking the law for their own needs or wants.

This really is not Sheldon. He is self centered but not Antisocial. One can see directly into the mind of Sheldon in his P. Proton dreams. He cares. He hides it.

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2 hours ago, Sah said:

Disagree...many people would be fascinated if Sheldon and Amy ever had a child. Far more interesting then Leonard and Penny having a child.

Sheldon and Amy are more romantic than the ever unhappy and bickering Leonard and Penny. Not sure why they even married to be honest...they were more interesting with Leonard hopelessly infatuated with her. I like them better as the cat and mouse game thing they had going on.

 Sheldon and Amy having a kid? Who cares? Leonard and Penny? Well .....it's in the show's DNA ..... since the first episode no less.

Edited by Tensor
Comment about another poster removed.
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Whatof his callous disregard of others beyond how they can help/serve him.

In the olden days he had minions not friends he even was shocked when lenny got engaged that leonerd would put his wifes happiness before his. 

I know autistic people, my nephew and grandson both are on the spectrum. Claiming sheldon is "just autistic" is just another way of excusing his behavior which goes far beyond autism symptoms

Edited by JE7
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Being on the Autistic Spectrum, doesn't rule out Antisocial Personality Disorders.  I would argue that the above leaves out some of the things he does, that are more Antisocial Personality Disorder, than being on the Autism Spectrum.    

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 Please remember to keep the discussion on the show, not about other members.  If you see a post about another poster, instead of the show, report it, don't answer it.  

State your opinion, let others state theirs.  If you disagree, use examples from the show or factual examples.  Posts have been edited and hidden.

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Personally, I have no desire for more children in the show. I'm all for it to end with Lenny's smart and beautiful babies, that was as a matter of fact one of the most famous TBBT quote and in a sense I see it as a "promise" to the fans, but I hope we see them just at the very end of the final episode. The writers did a good job with Howardette's child, they tackled some very interesting and very real issues about women and motherhood (so much so that I wonder if their inspiration was from their real life experience with babies, I hope someone asks about it at SDCC), for sure the fact Howardette are not a main couple and don't live on the main set helped them to avoid many clichés. Add to that the fact that, in homage to the late Mrs. Wolowitz, we don't see the the baby on screen (and this is also possible since they are not on the main set) and that for me sold the plot completely. For Shamy and Lenny that wouldn't be an option, though, it would be too odd, so I hope the writers don't go there just yet. TBH, that spare room in 4A is a bit suspicious to me, especially since Raj moved out so quickly and without any possible reason (well, he shouldn't have moved in to begin with, the plot was just terrible, but this is for another post, LOL!). The writers did something like that with Stuart, he moved out from Mrs. Wolowitz's house out of the blue and a couple of episodes later Bernie was pregnant...Let's see what happens, I really hope the spare room is turned into a game room for the boys (and the girls)!

 

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1 hour ago, mirs1 said:

Personally, I have no desire for more children in the show. I'm all for it to end with Lenny's smart and beautiful babies, that was as a matter of fact one of the most famous TBBT quote and in a sense I see it as a "promise" to the fans, but I hope we see them just at the very end of the final episode. The writers did a good job with Howardette's child, they tackled some very interesting and very real issues about women and motherhood (so much so that I wonder if their inspiration was from their real life experience with babies, I hope someone asks about it at SDCC), for sure the fact Howardette are not a main couple and don't live on the main set helped them to avoid many clichés. Add to that the fact that, in homage to the late Mrs. Wolowitz, we don't see the the baby on screen (and this is also possible since they are not on the main set) and that for me sold the plot completely. For Shamy and Lenny that wouldn't be an option, though, it would be too odd, so I hope the writers don't go there just yet. TBH, that spare room in 4A is a bit suspicious to me, especially since Raj moved out so quickly and without any possible reason (well, he shouldn't have moved in to begin with, the plot was just terrible, but this is for another post, LOL!). The writers did something like that with Stuart, he moved out from Mrs. Wolowitz's house out of the blue and a couple of episodes later Bernie was pregnant...Let's see what happens, I really hope the spare room is turned into a game room for the boys (and the girls)!

Your post makes a lot of sense regarding the assumed pregnancy of the main couples. I'm also worried about the spare room in 4A, but we haven't even seen Lenny's (still redecorated?) bedroom since a while now. That's more than weird though. :scratchhead:

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IMO Sheldon clearly has ASD, but that doesn't account for everything he does. That is part of him, not all, like it is only a part of other people with ASD who can be so much different than Sheldon. Sheldon does have narcissistic behaviors. I see these mostly as manic defenses - elevating himself, devaluating others, denying his dependency on them as a defense against his real dependency on them which goes to a great extent. This can explain why this behavior is sometimes in it's harsher form when it comes to Leonard - one of the people who he needed the most from 2004 to 2016. We actually had Sheldon recognize his dependency on Amy lately.

Now, I don't think Sheldon also has an Anti-Social Personality Disorder. This is a severe disorder. Sheldon struggles with empathy, but we have seen him willing to help others when he gets a better understanding of their feelings. We also haven't seen him continously manipulating other for his own gain and nothing more (the sweather was very bad but it wasn't, in his mind, for his personal gain). He might show anti-social-like behaviors at times but IMO what we have seen on screen does not at all justify the diagnosis of Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

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Good post,

"We see Sheldon helping others when he gets an underdtanding of their feeling" could also be sheldon does whay people expect of him once they point it out to him

Not for personal gain is a value judgement, boosting his ego or making himself feel superior or just in control could count as personal gain.

All things cosidered i think APD is a viable diagnosis, it depends on how you view his motivations and weather you belive his intentions are innocent. 

I do not

Edited by JE7
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19 hours ago, Sah said:

I feel that Sheldon struggles with reading social cues and how to interact in certain social situations. I would argue that sociopaths are extremely competent in reading social cues making them excellent manipulators and the having the ability to readily lie to get what they want. Sheldon is not a manipulator and certainly can't tell a lie or even hold a secret for that matter. He does have empathy for other people. He knows right from wrong. He does not put on false pretenses about who he is in order to get what he wants. I see him as being on the autism spectrum more then anything else. 

 

I cannot say that Sheldon lies to get what he wants but he is a manipulator.  Just watch "Itchy Brain Simulation"  with Leonards sweater or blackmailing Priya in the dissection of the roommate agreement.  He was pretty manipulative in those situations

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22 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I cannot say that Sheldon lies to get what he wants but he is a manipulator.  Just watch "Itchy Brain Simulation"  with Leonards sweater or blackmailing Priya in the dissection of the roommate agreement.  He was pretty manipulative in those situations

Yes Sheldon manipulates, but his power is limited. He relies on what he assumes to be flaws or weakness in those he chooses to manipulate.  

In "Itchy Brain" the ball was in Leonard's court.  He could have ended the entire thing, but chose not to.

In blackmailing Priya, Sheldon played into a weakness in the L/P relationship. He counted on the fact that Priya knew that he family in India would object to Leonard as a suitor and used it against her.   

In both situations Sheldon won because those he went up against bowed to either pride or outside pressure.

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20 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Yes Sheldon manipulates, but his power is limited. He relies on what he assumes to be flaws or weakness in those he chooses to manipulate.  

In "Itchy Brain" the ball was in Leonard's court.  He could have ended the entire thing, but chose not to.

In blackmailing Priya, Sheldon played into a weakness in the L/P relationship. He counted on the fact that Priya knew that he family in India would object to Leonard as a suitor and used it against her.   

In both situations Sheldon won because those he went up against bowed to either pride or outside pressure.

That doesn't change the fact that he manipulated those in both examples.  There are quite a few more examples where he's been manipulative. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

That doesn't change the fact that he manipulated those in both examples.  There are quite a few more examples where he's been manipulative. 

I said as much, my first sentence.  

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

I said as much, my first sentence.  

Yes, you did. I missed that.  My fault.  My apologies to you. 

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I think it is a matter of extent. Anti-social Personality Disorder is very severe, Sheldon's manipulations can be over the line at times but he does not show a lack of empathy and behavior guided so much by his own gain like an anti-social person would show. One might say he shows anti-social patterns (though I wouldn't, I think narcissitic behaviors/patterns fit better here) but I can't imagine him being diagnosed with this disorder. 

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57 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think it is a matter of extent. Anti-social Personality Disorder is very severe, Sheldon's manipulations can be over the line at times but he does not show a lack of empathy and behavior guided so much by his own gain like an anti-social person would show. One might say he shows anti-social patterns (though I wouldn't, I think narcissitic behaviors/patterns fit better here) but I can't imagine him being diagnosed with this disorder. 

In addition, all the characters on the show have manipulated other characters in some way. It's a staple of comedy storytelling and it doesn't make anyone a sociopath. As you say, this behaviour has to be a lot more severe to be relevant to an ASPD diagnosis.

Edited by April
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On 14/06/2017 at 10:28 PM, JE7 said:

Whatof his callous disregard of others beyond how they can help/serve him.

In the olden days he had minions not friends he even was shocked when lenny got engaged that leonerd would put his wifes happiness before his. 

I know autistic people, my nephew and grandson both are on the spectrum. Claiming sheldon is "just autistic" is just another way of excusing his behavior which goes far beyond autism symptoms

In my opinion we are witness to a distorted exaggerated view of someone from Bill Pradies past.  Sheldon was written not as having callous disregard of others but as a benign but contemptuous superior overlord (only in his imagination). Too smart for his own good but emotionally infantile.

Antisocial is more like this:

 

Edited by djsurrey

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1 hour ago, April said:

In addition, all the characters on the show have manipulated other characters in some way. It's a staple of comedy storytelling and it doesn't make anyone a sociopath. As you say, this behaviour has to be a lot more severe to be relevant to an ASPD diagnosis.

Very nice the "everybody does it" excuse.

No one on the show manipulates others for their own gain/amusement as sheldon does.

Wirh him it is a consistent behaviir not an occasional occurrence 

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16 minutes ago, JE7 said:

Very nice the "everybody does it" excuse.

No one on the show manipulates others for their own gain/amusement as sheldon does.

Wirh him it is a consistent behaviir not an occasional occurrence 

Say Howard...

 

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18 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Say Howard...

 

Another strike in a long running war started by..... Sheldon

Why? Because on their first meeting instead of showing the awe he deserved Howard said he reminded him of pee wee herman.

Sheldon is incapable of letting any percieved slight go unpunished and has/will carry a grudge for years.

The man has a list of mortal enemies going back to his childhood and people can end up on it for the most ridiculous reasons 

Edited by JE7
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4 hours ago, JE7 said:

Another strike in a long running war started by..... Sheldon

Why? Because on their first meeting instead of showing the awe he deserved Howard said he reminded him of pee wee herman.

Sheldon is incapable of letting any percieved slight go unpunished and has/will carry a grudge for years.

The man has a list of mortal enemies going back to his childhood and people can end up on it for the most ridiculous reasons 

As evidenced very clearly in "Itchy brain". I think he was described as Machiavellian by Amy. I thought he was a regular run of the mill (major league) asshole.

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7 hours ago, Carlos said:

As evidenced very clearly in "Itchy brain". I think he was described as Machiavellian by Amy. I thought he was a regular run of the mill (major league) asshole.

I think they went too far with that episode it was too cruel

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16 hours ago, JE7 said:

Another strike in a long running war started by..... Sheldon

Why? Because on their first meeting instead of showing the awe he deserved Howard said he reminded him of pee wee herman.

Sheldon is incapable of letting any percieved slight go unpunished and has/will carry a grudge for years.

The man has a list of mortal enemies going back to his childhood and people can end up on it for the most ridiculous reasons 

As I said more childish than antisocial. 

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OMG!!!!  Do NOT buy a Chevy Impala!!!  $800 to fix a damn a/c compressor that I HAVE to fix or it will cause more problems if I go without.  And surprise, they're notorious for going out.  Ahhhhhh!!!  I miss the older cars that were more basic and less computerized.

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