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You see it your way I see it my way. Couple or Not, lenny alone time or what not is Lenny time for me.

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Sometimes i dont even know why i bother. It's all about hiding digs behind statistics on this forum which is not always the actual facts and is all supposed and posts selected at random for saying it as it is, (deleted) and what is not allowed is hidden behind the reflection of what happened or not. Even when they don't break the rules.

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48 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Sometimes i dont even know why i bother. It's all about hiding digs behind statistics on this forum which is not always the actual facts 

Can you point out which statistics are digs?  And which statistics are not actual facts?  

 

48 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

posts selected at random for saying it as it is, (deleted) and what is not allowed is hidden behind the reflection of what happened or not. Even when they don't break the rules.

I will flat out say you post was deleted and another was edited, simply because there were negative and snarky comments about another poster.   That's not allowed.  You notice that bfm had some questions, but didn't comment about the poster.  That's why bfm's post is up, and yours was hidden and edited.   If you don't don't agree, that's fine, but keep your comments to your opinion about the discussion, not about other posters.   

 

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7 hours ago, bfm said:

Would you say Shamy shouldn't have couple time from before they were officially a couple? I don't think the Orthiniphobia episode counts as friendship time... I'll give you the dream but then again, nowadays TPTB wouldn't give Lenny that much alone time even if it were a dream.

I'm not talking about taking time away. I was merely pointing out that your idea that Lenny got some special treatment after Beta Test isn't reflected in the numbers. Lenny did get good numbers this season but a big chunk of it is coming from before Beta Test. If I misunderstood your initial musings then by all means correct me where I'm wrong.

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2 hours ago, April said:

I'm not talking about taking time away. I was merely pointing out that your idea that Lenny got some special treatment after Beta Test isn't reflected in the numbers. Lenny did get good numbers this season but a big chunk of it is coming from before Beta Test. If I misunderstood your initial musings then by all means correct me where I'm wrong.

Oh now I get what you were trying to say. I did relate to the beta test phase but it's not thw crux of my point. I think TPTB gave Lenny more time when they were less "secure" as a couple, at least in technical terms (I think they are getting them to a less secure place now but maybe they don't see it that way because they are married). That includes Orthinophobia for me because I suspect they already knew they are about to get them back together at that time.

Edited by bfm
typo
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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

Oh now I get what you were trying to say. I did relate to the beta test phase but it's not thw crux of my point. I think TPTB gave Lenny more time when they were less "secure" as a couple, at least in technical terms (I think they are getting them to a less secure place now but maybe they don't see it that way because they are married). That includes Orthinophobia for me because I suspect they already knew they are about to get them back together at that time.

I agree, after keeping Lenny apart for as much as they could during their breakup they needed something to get them closer together again and the bird ep (lol sorry for calling it that but it's just shorter) was a big step towards that as well as the 100th. So in hindsight I guess it's not that surprising that these two are accounting for a lot of Lenny's screen time. But it is a bit of an exception rather than the rule in this season.

The idea that the writers invest more time in them when they're not "secure as a couple", as you put it, also fits with their alone times in S2 vs. S3. S2 was their courtship phase if you will and in S3 they were officially an item.

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thank you @Tensor  for your continued analysis. One thing  surprising  is that Penny's total screen time is  like that of a supporting character in many  seasons except season 8, up to now. I feel like , in seasons 1-6, she used to be behind Sheldon/Leonard/Howard and/or even Raj. Even with the addition of girls, Penny's time looks like a supporting character , not the "big 3" technically. In season 9 and 10 it is like Sheldon, Leonard and Amy who are the big 3 . Only in season 8, were Sheldon, Leonard and Penny - the big 3. I feel Penny focus may increase in season 7 since there was time devoted on her career crisis. Another thing surprising is that Howard/Raj pairing was in top 3 for the first time in s6. I would have expected them to have plenty of alone time in s1-4, pre- Bernadette . 

I am also very curious about season 1 . 

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Here are the season seven numbers usual disclaimers apply.  I don't guarantee I didn't make a mistake, but it should be pretty damn close.  

The average show time, per episode, in season seven dropped by ten seconds to 20:30, from season six's 20:40.  This is still 30 seconds higher than season's eight's time of just under 20 minutes.  As with season six (and seasons 8-10) there was an additional minute of time in the broadcast slot, so there was 10:30 of add time, compared to 10:20 in season six and 11:00 in season eight. 

Here is the percentage, for each of the characters, of total screen time for Season 7.  There's a couple of surprises here:

  • Sheldon             52%         
  • Leonard             45%            
  • Howard              34%            
  • Penny                40%        
  • Raj                     35%        
  • Amy                   34%       
  • Bernadette         26%          
  • Stuart                    8%             

 

Three of the guys times dropped from the previous year.  Sheldon, Leonard and Howard's times dropped by 1-3 percent.    The women's times jumped again this year, from the previous year.  Penny and Amy both went up by 7% and Bernadette's went up by 5%.    Even Stuart's time went up.  

Here is the comparison to the averages for seasons 2-4, 5-7, and  8-10:

                                         Change from (in %)

                              Sea 7         Sea 5-7      Sea 2-4       Sea 8-10      Sea   2-4      Sea  8-10 

  • Sheldon         52%            55%             68%             55%               -11                +2
  • Leonard         45%            48%             63%             45%               -13                +5
  • Penny             40%            34%            39%              38%                -7                 -6
  • Raj                  35%            33%            43%              32%              -10                +1
  • Howard           34%            36%             44%             35%                -6                 +3
  • Amy                 34%            28%            19%              35%               +6                 -1
  • Bernadette       26%            22%            14%              25%               +6                 -5    

 

I mentioned in the season five commentary that Penny was down from season 2-4 AND seasons 8-10 and wondered if that was a one year thing.  Her time in season six was almost the same, so it wasn't a one year thing.  I mentioned that she seemed to have more time in earlier season seven episodes.  Well, as you can see, her time climbed to 40% this year.  She's back in the top three, as her Leonard, and Sheldon are the only ones over 40%.  

Everyone, is within one percent of their season 8-10 times in season seven.  Except for Penny, who drops 2% and Sheldon, who climbs 3%

As for couples, the most time together was between Leonard and Penny, with 97 minutes, up 17 minutes from season six.  In second, with 72 minutes, was Shamy up four minutes from season six.  Howardette  had almost the same time as season six, up a minute to 50 minutes.

As for alone time, Shamy again led with 37 minutes, down six minutes.   Lenny had 30 minutes, down 1 minute.  Howardette's time plunged 19 minutes to 10.  Raj and Emily had a total of 9 minutes, less than Howardette's alone time, but had over half Howardette's alone time, with 5:40.  

In case you were wondering, here is a comparison between season seven, six, and the 8-10 average:

                                             Season 7               Season 6                      Season 8-10             

  • Shamy Total                     72                          68                                     97
  • Shamy Alone                    37                          43                                     49
  •  
  • Lenny Total                       97                          83                                     88
  • Lenny Alone                      30                          34                                     22
  •  
  • Howardette Total               50                          50                                      52
  • Howardette Alone              10                          29                                      17

Shamy and Lenny's total times were up, compared to season six.   Shamy by four minutes, Lenny by 14.   All the alone times dropped,  Shamy by six minutes, Lenny by four, and Howardette by 19.  However, Shamy and Howardette's time increases in seasons 8-10 (both total and alone), while Lenny's continues to drop in alone, and drops in total.  

As for other pairings, (and remember, the following is only counted when the pairing is alone, on screen.  So comparison to the romantic couples are for their alone time).  Sheldon and Leonard led, with 25 minutes and in second was Sheldon and Penny with 24 minutes.   There were two other pairings that had above ten minutes for the season.  Howard and Raj again made the top three with 13 minutes (okay, 12:59) and the other pairing also involved Howard, with Howard and Sheldon coming in at 11 minutes.  This probably has to do with their trip to Houston.   

I have two other pairings, because "what's life without whimsy".    Raj and Cinnamon were up a minute from season six with five minutes.  And, the other pairing involved a non-canon bedroom scene, so I had to include it.   Sheldon and his friend the Geology Book got 15 seconds alone together.   Yes, I know the scene is longer than 15 seconds.  But the first part is only Sheldon, and when he takes the book out to the living area, Leonard's there, and since Sheldon and the book weren't official, they don't get their time together, unless they are alone.   

I still haven't updated the total time, as I keep saying, hopefully tomorrow.   I'll start season one this weekend, so I should have everything finished by early to middle of next week.   I'll repeat this, I plan on doing season 11 on a week to week basis, since I recored the episodes, and I have season 11 and 12 already set up in the spreadsheet.   

 

Tensor

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What a thorough job @Tensor! This is amazing.

Two things stood out to me: 

I think the biggest drop from early to later seasons was Leonard's. 

Lenny's drop in alone time fron seasons 5-7 to 8-10. I think it supports Lennys feelings about these seasons. As for earlier seasons - they were a couple for only a part of season 3...

Edited by bfm
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Impressive!

 

I still screening the data, this may take awhile to. :shy:

misc_00334.gif.8536ba83f43813f28667420f72921613.gif

Incredible work. Cheers @Tensor!

Edited by veejay
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Thank you @Tensor, I found your data really interesting, thanks for taking the time for this project!

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Wow @Tensor such impressive work! Thank you very much! 

As I said in my previous comment, Leonard seems to be the one who suffered the greatest decline in screen time overall. I think it started as a show about "two brilliant minds" and became about one, more and more over the years. The Lenny decline from seasons 5-7 to 8-10 is also very sad. Raj got quite similar times over the years but since he barely has pairings time I guess he is mostly a support player in group scenes. Reminds me of the scene in "The Veracity Elasticity" where he says that the issues discussed don't cocern him so he will just "dig in"to the food. Poor thing is sometimes mostly a prop. The decline in show time is sad too, I get that they need the commercial money but with less show time and more characters they are left with not enough time for some characters and not enough time to seriously explore some of the hapenning.

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It has been great to follow this project of yours , @Tensor. Thanks for taking your time for sharing with us  such interisting side of tbbt show. 

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Thanks a ton for all your work on this project, @Tensor!!

Things that stuck out for me:

- In terms of screen time you can see the switch to "the Sheldon show" in S2. S1 had more of a Leonard focus and with S2 you can see the balance shifting in favour of Sheldon which then only continued in the following seasons. Subsequently Leonard's time is steadily going down more than Sheldon's.

- Again, judging from screen time alone Penny was never really part of the "Big Three". Her times are often beat by Howard and sometimes even Raj. The only time when she's actually in the top thee is from S7-9 and even then she doesn't exactly come close to screen time parity with Leonard or Sheldon even once. Looking at the numbers what prevents her from being lumped into the same supporting category as Howard and Raj is simply that she's literally the girl next door to the "Big Two" and due to the resulting character dynamics hanging out with them the most.

- Among the remaining two guys Howard is the dominant one who's getting the most focus and most storylines while Raj is mostly tagging along. It's not that surprising but it's nice to see it reflected in the actual numbers. The surprise is really that they aren't hanging out hat much alone even though they're thought of as a team. I guess the crux here is that they usually show up together either with the whole group, in guys plots and especially in the later seasons as a threesome with Bernie.

- As for the other girls it's nice to see their screen time increasing over the years, though Amy definitely has the advantage here being paired up with Sheldon (as everyone who's paired up with Sheldon will get a boost in screen time). Her numbers continue to climb while Bernie's stays around the 110-120 min mark. What's particularly impressive is that Amy is only one outside the "Big Two" who's even come close to screen time parity in S10 where she's only 7min short to Leonard's time.

- The Lenny issue that has been discussed in many threads across the forum isn't stemming from one specific issue but a culmination of a whole lot of them: 1) Lenny was never the couple that spend a ton of time alone - on average 35% with the highest being 61% in S5, the lowest 22% in S10. Their record of alone time is 36 min in S2 and they weren't even a couple then. 2) Their most stable period with numbers in the low 30s is S5-7 and that was coming after a 1.5 seasons breakup where the writers kept the characters apart as much as possible. So seeing them together again sure must have felt like the golden age was upon them. 3) That is then followed by the S8-10 period with low numbers in the 20s. 4) Their total numbers have been pretty stable and high though pointing towards the simple idea I mentioned the other day that they just hang out with other characters a lot. Tensor didn't do groups with 3 characters but I'm pretty certain that through all seasons S/L/P would lead here (with occasionally Amy tagging along as well). 5) On top of that you also have stuff like Sheldon and Penny spending more time alone in S7 and S8 again and if you don't like that pairing it only adds to your dismay of the dwindling Lenny alone time. 6) And of course there's also the quality of Lenny stories going down which isn't subject of this project so I just add here for the sake of completeness.*

(*I think what would be interesting is another project that really looks at the storylines and what characters/pairings/etc are the driving force. But this is a lot less easier to pin down objectively as we all interpret these things differently so Idk how easy it would be to do such a project.)

- Shamy by comparison have always been going relatively strong. Exception being S4 when Mayim was only in roughly half the season and S5 when her screen time wasn't that high yet either so the Shamy time is about the same. There are probably also other factors like Shamy not even being an official couple then and Amy also getting quite a few more plots with the girls now to flesh out her then still new character. But from S6 onwards their numbers are pretty strong - their alone time doubled from S5 to S6! S6 and S9 are almost equal with their 40 min numbers, same as S7 and S8 in the 30s. It's not something that only started with S8 and neither is it a steady rise! What also stayed true during all seasons is that they spend a ton of their couple time alone - on average 53% with the highest being 64% in S6, the lowest 44% in S5. S10 is in many ways a outlier so far due to the focus on them moving in together thus giving them a huge boost in both total and alone time. It will be interesting how that continues in S11/12 and if the novelty will wear off for the writers.

- Fun facts for comparison: Over 10 seasons Lenny have the most total couple time about 1 hour ahead of Shamy (2 hours if you add in their alone times from seasons where Tensor hasn't specified their couple time cause they weren't a couple then), and their average couple time is about 6 min ahead of Shamy. Over 10 seasons Lenny's alone time is a little over 10 min less than Shamy's (who only had 7 seasons so far) with 4h 21min and 4h 34min respectively, their average alone time per season is about 26 minutes while Shamy's is about 39 minutes. So basically only now with S10 Shamy caught up with Lenny in terms of total alone time making up for the first 3 seasons where there was no Shamy at all. They're still far behind when it comes to Lenny's total time.

 

Edited by April
Corrected some numbers whoops
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thank you @Tensor for this project and for the total numbers.  eye opening and  Impressive work ! correct me if i'm wrong but, it seems Shamy(273 min) have more alone time than Lenny(261 min) over the 10 years even if shamy didn't exist in seasons 1-3. I would expect this alone time gap to increase more in the next 2 seasons. also: WOW, again correct me if i'm wrong, but I didn't realize some of the  non romantic pairings like Shelnard (300  min) and Shenny (240 min) have had alone time almost comparable to main romantic pairings. None of the other character pairings(like Amy/Penny-40 min or Howard/Raj-81 min for instance) come close(as in 3 digits) as I expected.  I mean,  the drop off is high after Shelnard and Shenny. Probably just highlights Sheldon centric nature of relationships on tbbt

I had a question: When Sheldon's drunk dial message to Stephen Hawking plays in the tag scene of 7.21, was that counted as Sheldon's screen time even if he was only heard, not seen ?

Edited by serena_1995

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10 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

I had a question: When Sheldon's drunk dial message to Stephen Hawking plays in the tag scene of 7.21, was that counted as Sheldon's screen time even if he was only heard, not seen ?

In that case, yes it counted.  Similar to Mrs Wolwitz counting as a minor character, although we never saw her. 

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On 29 June 2017 at 8:19 AM, April said:

Putting the alone time numbers into perspective though:

               Shenny               Lenny               Shamy

S2              57:49                36:03                  --:--

S3              44:10                25:44                  --:--

S4              30:19                11:55                20:19                    

S8              21:40                23:14                38:35

S9              05:45                23:04                45:25

S10            09:25                22:00                54:45

First of all: Shenny had massively more alone screen time than Lenny in the first third of the show.

This data is of interest to the Shenny website as well. 

 

On 6 July 2017 at 11:52 PM, Tensor said:

Here are the season seven numbers usual disclaimers apply.  I don't guarantee I didn't make a mistake, but it should be pretty damn close.  

The average show time, per episode, in season seven dropped by ten seconds to 20:30, from season six's 20:40.  This is still 30 seconds higher than season's eight's time of just under 20 minutes.  As with season six (and seasons 8-10) there was an additional minute of time in the broadcast slot, so there was 10:30 of add time, compared to 10:20 in season six and 11:00 in season eight. 

Here is the percentage, for each of the characters, of total screen time for Season 7.  There's a couple of surprises here:

  • Sheldon             52%         
  • Leonard             45%            
  • Howard              34%            
  • Penny                40%        
  • Raj                     35%        
  • Amy                   34%       
  • Bernadette         26%          
  • Stuart                    8%             

 

Three of the guys times dropped from the previous year.  Sheldon, Leonard and Howard's times dropped by 1-3 percent.    The women's times jumped again this year, from the previous year.  Penny and Amy both went up by 7% and Bernadette's went up by 5%.    Even Stuart's time went up.  

Here is the comparison to the averages for seasons 2-4, 5-7, and  8-10:

                                         Change from (in %)

                              Sea 7         Sea 5-7      Sea 2-4       Sea 8-10      Sea   2-4      Sea  8-10 

  • Sheldon         52%            55%             68%             55%               -11                +2
  • Leonard         45%            48%             63%             45%               -13                +5
  • Penny             40%            34%            39%              38%                -7                 -6
  • Raj                  35%            33%            43%              32%              -10                +1
  • Howard           34%            36%             44%             35%                -6                 +3
  • Amy                 34%            28%            19%              35%               +6                 -1
  • Bernadette       26%            22%            14%              25%               +6                 -5    

 

I mentioned in the season five commentary that Penny was down from season 2-4 AND seasons 8-10 and wondered if that was a one year thing.  Her time in season six was almost the same, so it wasn't a one year thing.  I mentioned that she seemed to have more time in earlier season seven episodes.  Well, as you can see, her time climbed to 40% this year.  She's back in the top three, as her Leonard, and Sheldon are the only ones over 40%.  

Everyone, is within one percent of their season 8-10 times in season seven.  Except for Penny, who drops 2% and Sheldon, who climbs 3%

As for couples, the most time together was between Leonard and Penny, with 97 minutes, up 17 minutes from season six.  In second, with 72 minutes, was Shamy up four minutes from season six.  Howardette  had almost the same time as season six, up a minute to 50 minutes.

As for alone time, Shamy again led with 37 minutes, down six minutes.   Lenny had 30 minutes, down 1 minute.  Howardette's time plunged 19 minutes to 10.  Raj and Emily had a total of 9 minutes, less than Howardette's alone time, but had over half Howardette's alone time, with 5:40.  

In case you were wondering, here is a comparison between season seven, six, and the 8-10 average:

                                             Season 7               Season 6                      Season 8-10             

  • Shamy Total                     72                          68                                     97
  • Shamy Alone                    37                          43                                     49
  •  
  • Lenny Total                       97                          83                                     88
  • Lenny Alone                      30                          34                                     22
  •  
  • Howardette Total               50                          50                                      52
  • Howardette Alone              10                          29                                      17

Shamy and Lenny's total times were up, compared to season six.   Shamy by four minutes, Lenny by 14.   All the alone times dropped,  Shamy by six minutes, Lenny by four, and Howardette by 19.  However, Shamy and Howardette's time increases in seasons 8-10 (both total and alone), while Lenny's continues to drop in alone, and drops in total.  

As for other pairings, (and remember, the following is only counted when the pairing is alone, on screen.  So comparison to the romantic couples are for their alone time).  Sheldon and Leonard led, with 25 minutes and in second was Sheldon and Penny with 24 minutes.   There were two other pairings that had above ten minutes for the season.  Howard and Raj again made the top three with 13 minutes (okay, 12:59) and the other pairing also involved Howard, with Howard and Sheldon coming in at 11 minutes.  This probably has to do with their trip to Houston.   

I have two other pairings, because "what's life without whimsy".    Raj and Cinnamon were up a minute from season six with five minutes.  And, the other pairing involved a non-canon bedroom scene, so I had to include it.   Sheldon and his friend the Geology Book got 15 seconds alone together.   Yes, I know the scene is longer than 15 seconds.  But the first part is only Sheldon, and when he takes the book out to the living area, Leonard's there, and since Sheldon and the book weren't official, they don't get their time together, unless they are alone.   

I still haven't updated the total time, as I keep saying, hopefully tomorrow.   I'll start season one this weekend, so I should have everything finished by early to middle of next week.   I'll repeat this, I plan on doing season 11 on a week to week basis, since I recored the episodes, and I have season 11 and 12 already set up in the spreadsheet.   

 

Tensor

This is impressive work, Tensor. I started this project myself but didn't have the time. None of it comes as a surprise though to be honest. It does feel more of a Shamy show and there's not as much Shelnard and Shenny. Not sure about Lenny... is there a drop off or it is similar to other seasons?

Edited by Spaced_up

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On 13.7.2017 at 4:38 PM, Spaced_up said:

This data is of interest to the Shenny website as well. 

This data is also incomplete. For the full 10 seasons it would look like this:

               Shenny               Lenny               Shamy            Shelnard

S1              23:11                22:58                  --:--                  50:50

S2              57:49                36:03                  --:--                  33:03

S3              44:10                25:44                  --:--                  32:19

S4              30:19                11:55                20:19                38:09

S5              09:55                31:44                22:16                35:44

S6              13:59                34:14                43:55                23:59

S7              24:40                30:16                37:55                25:40

S8              21:40                23:14                38:35                32:59

S9              05:45                23:04                45:25                17:19

S10            09:25                22:00                64:45                10:05

(Added Shelnard for @serena_1995 this time)

So as you see it's not a steady decline for Shenny. The two started out with moderate numbers pretty equal to Lenny's time. But within the P/L/S trinity Sheldon and Leonard took the lion's share in S1 which is impressive seeing as how short it was. Then S2 had a huge Shenny boost that lasted until S4 albeit with big drops in numbers for each season. After that the numbers collapse and Shenny only manage to regain their S1 strength for a brief period in S7/8. After that they got the worst numbers they ever had.

Most interestingly with the change from S4 to S5 it seems like they gave all the screen time Shenny lost straight to Lenny.

In terms of friendships Shelnard is a lot more steady actually. Sure, they had a big drop after S1 but ever since they've had a consistent run in the 30s until S5 and later again in S8. There was a dip in S6 and S7 but those were strong years for both Lenny and Shamy so both guys were busy with their SO's. Then there's a drop in S9 which isn't surprising to me cause that's when Penny moved in and subsequently a lot of scenes that would have been only Sheldon and Leonard in past seasons also have her now thus eliminating the time as per the parameters of this project. This trend then continues in S10 when Sheldon moves out and thus it limits those casual Shelnard moments where they were alone even further.

Among those numbers above the record for alone time is Shamy in S10, followed by Shenny in S2, followed by Shelnard in S1.

Edited by April
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It doesn’t surprise me that Sheldon and Leonard had the most scenes in S1. The show was establishing it's groundwork, around which everything else is built. Thanks for these totals as they are interesting to all fandoms, even ours across the lake. The changes in the shows direction are illustrated well.

Saying that, if I were a Lenny fan I'd be a little disappointed in these totals, as even at the height of Shenny, there wasn’t such a gap between them and Lenny for ship-time. Shamy is getting the lions share in S10 and I expect this to continue. 

Funny how we haven’t included H/B, I can’t help thinking of them as filler. Which isn’t fair on Simon who is such a wonderful comic. A little wasted on Howardette I feel. Although I know some fans have grown to enjoy them. I've always liked Howard, even creepy Howard.

Edited by Spaced_up
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55 minutes ago, Spaced_up said:

Funny how we haven’t included H/B, I can’t help thinking of them as filler. Which isn’t fair on Simon who is such a wonderful comic. A little wasted on Howardette I feel. Although I know some fans have grown to enjoy them. I've always liked Howard, even creepy Howard.

The complete numbers are collected in the following thread if you want to make further comparisons:

Howardette overall have lower numbers with their most prominent seasons being S5 (24:58 min), S6 (29:50 min) and S10 (22:30 min). Unsurprisingly, those seasons were the ones featuring bigger storylines for the two like Howard going to space, marriage and now the baby.

Howard is actually the character with the 3rd most screen time but there's a big gab between him and Leonard (730 min difference to Howard) while Sheldon sits at the top (1018 min difference to Howard). Penny is 4th, followed closely by Raj. Then because they weren't there from the beginning you have Amy and Bernadette at the bottom of the main 7 with also a substantial gab between the two girls.

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