[Spoilers] Season 11 Shipping Lanes

[Nogravitasatall]

On 24/08/2017 at 0:26 AM, Lettie said:

I see passion from Leonard but not from Penny. It seems like she's always demeaning him and he's just thankful that he gets to sleep with her.

I understand that in a narrative unrequited sexual tension (URST) is a big hook for an audience. These two seem to have gotten to the point of relatively unaroused sexual timemarking (RUST). They don't seem to any fun together. And if they do they still have to wonder if Sheldon left behind any more surveillance cameras. If they were real and  wanted to freshen up their marriage they should get the hell away from Sheldon. But that can't happen. Until maybe S12.24.

[3ku11]

Yeah Leonard was showing a lot of passion last season. In the Romance Recalibration. When he was playing video games with food on his shirt . Point of that episode last season. Was to show how Leonard is no longer passionate about Penny and their relationship. And no longer tries. So not sure I agree with the characterisation Leonard shows passion. And that's not to say Penny does too. But they both contributed to the lack of passion in their relationship. I think this is a writing issue anyway. Always has been. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by 3ku11

[JE7]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Yeah Leonard was showing a lot of passion last season. In the Romance Recalibration. When he was playing video games with food on his shirt . Point of that episode last season. Was to show how Leonard is no longer passionate about Penny and their relationship. And no longer tries. So not sure I agree with the characterisation Leonard shows passion. And that's not to say Penny does too. But they both contributed to the lack of passion in their relationship. I think this is a writing issue anyway. Always has been. 

One ooc scene or even episode dosent invalidate everything else we saw even last season. We have to take what we saw both before and after into account.

Personally i wont go thru the sorts of logic twisting some here will to justify every single line of dialog from TPTB as an intentional act to change the lenny dynamic, sometimes they just screw up. Admit it and move on not every line is gold and not every scene is well planed or thought out as far as canon and/or continuity is concerned quite the opposite actually as the last ten years has amply demonstrated 

We have unfortunately not only throw away jokes but episodes as well

Edited August 25, 2017 by JE7

[veejay]

20 minutes ago, JE7 said:

One ooc scene or even episode dosent invalidate everything else we saw even last season. We have to take what we saw both before and after into account.

Personally i wont go thru the sorts of logic twisting some here will to justify every single line of dialog from TPTB as an intentional act to change the lenny dynamic, sometimes they just screw up. Admit it and move on not every line is gold and not every scene is well planed or thought out as far as canon and/or continuity is concerned quite the opposite actually as the last ten years has amply demonstrated 

We have unfortunately not only throw away jokes but episodes as well

Yes.
I just thought that this plot was a waste of time. It was terrible and just an excuse to go for the RA-bs for Lenny, a failing ploy anyway. Considering how few minutes we are getting each episode I don't want them spent on this kind of ooc stuff.
So it's supposed to be a sitcom and not a soap. It's not required to be consistent, it's required to be funny, hopefully.

[bfm]

That was one of the weirdest episodes ever. It was just...wrong. Leonard suddenly morphed into Howard and Penny made all these ridicolous accusations. At the same episode he went to the spa to show her he does care and a few episodes later Penny was talking about him making efforts to do things he doesn't like for her as it has always been...

Edited September 10, 2017 by bfm

[Carlos]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:25 AM, Nogravitasatall said:

I understand that in a narrative unrequited sexual tension (URST) is a big hook for an audience. These two seem to have gotten to the point of relatively unaroused sexual timemarking (RUST). They don't seem to any fun together. And if they do they still have to wonder if Sheldon left behind any more surveillance cameras. If they were real and  wanted to freshen up their marriage they should get the hell away from Sheldon. But that can't happen. Until maybe S12.24.

So they have to URST their RUST. Ok got it.

Regards the bold... or can they? Maybe they could start sowing the seeds of their spinoff: "The Hofstadters"

[3ku11]

On 8/25/2017 at 9:50 PM, veejay said:

Yes.
I just thought that this plot was a waste of time. It was terrible and just an excuse to go for the RA-bs for Lenny, a failing ploy anyway. Considering how few minutes we are getting each episode I don't want them spent on this kind of ooc stuff.
So it's supposed to be a sitcom and not a soap. It's not required to be consistent, it's required to be funny, hopefully.

Based on the same logic. One isolated arguable OOC episode doesent invalidate what happened previously. I also don't think it proves. Leonard is passionate more about their marriage. It's not some competition lol. They are playing on the Same team. I don't think the show last season ever showed more discerning passion from Leonard then Penny. Not in cannon. So don't really get that posters point of view.

I think a good example of comedy over incongruous plot lines like the RA throwaway episode. Was The Holiday Summnation. The Lenny Tree Sequence was imo the most hilarious sequence of the season. But then again that is down to the quality of the writing. Tptb are just very luckey they have such a great, talented cast. You give them a tin can. They well turn that tin can into gold. Like Johnny and Kaley showed in Holiday Summnation. Unfortunately the writing is consistently so lazy and complacent all the time. Most of the time the original comedy, or any comedy. Gets replaced by horrible plot lines like The Romance Recalibration. Which in hindsight was just an excuse to give Sheldon more screen time. I even remember most of us were telling other posters. This is not a good thing for Lenny at all. And as it turned out. Most of us were right . Awful and abysmal writing last season. The first two tapings seem a tad more promising for Lenny. But im not falling into any trap. 

[Swedish Chef]

27 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Based on the same logic. One isolated arguable OOC episode doesent invalidate what happened previously. I also don't think it proves. Leonard is passionate more about their marriage. It's not some competition lol. They are playing on the Same team. I don't think the show last season ever showed more discerning passion from Leonard then Penny. Not in cannon. So don't really get that posters point of view.

I think a good example of comedy over incongruous plot lines like the RA throwaway episode. Was The Holiday Summnation. The Lenny Tree Sequence was imo the most hilarious sequence of the season. But then again that is down to the quality of the writing. Tptb are just very luckey they have such a great, talented cast. You give them a tin can. They well turn that tin can into gold. Like Johnny and Kaley showed in Holiday Summnation. Unfortunately the writing is consistently so lazy and complacent all the time. Most of the time the original comedy, or any comedy. Gets replaced by horrible plot lines like The Romance Recalibration. Which in hindsight was just an excuse to give Sheldon more screen time. I even remember most of us were telling other posters. This is not a good thing for Lenny at all. And as it turned out. Most of us were right . Awful and abysmal writing last season. The first two tapings seem a tad more promising for Lenny. But im not falling into any trap. 

I'm totally with you on this one, and the start of this season looks really promising to me, but I'm not about to praise the writers yet for a good job. Just look at  the start of previous season that was also looking good for Lenny with the redo and then the writers turned it to a total train wreck for Lenny.. 

[3ku11]

10 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I'm totally with you on this one, and the start of this season looks really promising to me, but I'm not about to praise the writers yet for a good job. Just look at  the start of previous season that was also looking good for Lenny with the redo and then the writers turned it to a total train wreck for Lenny.. 

I even remember 10.22. Where Lenny actually communicated. And I remember we were all saying where's this been since season 6? Frustrating the writers can write quality Lenny stories. What's changed since season 6? Nothing. 

[JE7]

20 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

What's changed since season 6? Nothing. 

What changed is simple. Sheldon became the "breakout character" and the show became centered around him.

Much like on happy days, originally the show was centered on Richie Cunningham but the Fonz became the breakout character and the focus was shifted to him. The show was originally about the life of Richie and his friends and their adventures in high school but it is Fonzi's leather jacket that ended up in the Smithsonian 

It was also The Fonz who eventually jumped the shark

Edited August 27, 2017 by JE7

[veejay]

2 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Based on the same logic. One isolated arguable OOC episode doesent invalidate what happened previously. I also don't think it proves. Leonard is passionate more about their marriage. It's not some competition lol. They are playing on the Same team. I don't think the show last season ever showed more discerning passion from Leonard then Penny. Not in cannon. So don't really get that posters point of view.

I think a good example of comedy over incongruous plot lines like the RA throwaway episode. Was The Holiday Summnation. The Lenny Tree Sequence was imo the most hilarious sequence of the season. But then again that is down to the quality of the writing. Tptb are just very luckey they have such a great, talented cast. You give them a tin can. They well turn that tin can into gold. Like Johnny and Kaley showed in Holiday Summnation. Unfortunately the writing is consistently so lazy and complacent all the time. Most of the time the original comedy, or any comedy. Gets replaced by horrible plot lines like The Romance Recalibration. Which in hindsight was just an excuse to give Sheldon more screen time. I even remember most of us were telling other posters. This is not a good thing for Lenny at all. And as it turned out. Most of us were right . Awful and abysmal writing last season. The first two tapings seem a tad more promising for Lenny. But im not falling into any trap. 

I agree with you. The writers could if they wanted to.
The Holiday Summnation episode was an absolute LOL moment for Lenny and of course for me as well. But compared to the length of the other storyline, it was quicker than my laughter stopped.

/sigh/

1 hour ago, JE7 said:

What changed is simple. Sheldon became the "breakout character" and the show became centered around him.

....

A twist I would like is if they made the show as a comedy instead of the soap opera it is.

Edited August 27, 2017 by veejay

[3ku11]

29 minutes ago, JE7 said:

What changed is simple. Sheldon became the "breakout character" and the show became centered around him.

Much like on happy days, originally the show was centered on Richie Cunningham but the Fonz became the breakout character and the focus was shifted to him. The show was originally about the life of Richie and his friends and their adventures in high school but it is Fonzi's leather jacket that ended up in the Smithsonian 

It was also The Fonz who eventually jumped the shark

Sheldon became the breakout star much earlier on like season three. I understand focus on Sheldon. Changed things a lot. But season 6 they managed,to balance things out. So I don't know. 

[JE7]

2 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Sheldon became the breakout star much earlier on like season three. I understand focus on Sheldon. Changed things a lot. But season 6 they managed,to balance things out. So I don't know. 

I dont agree s5 and s6 where lenny getting back together and setteling in as a permanent couple. They were tieing up the lose end in case no deal was reached post s7. And as soon as they were the focus started shifting to Sheldon, it was a done deal by s7 and only got worse or at least more obvious after the renewal 

Edited August 27, 2017 by JE7

[Die Zimtzicke]

7 hours ago, JE7 said:

Much like on happy days, originally the show was centered on Richie Cunningham but the Fonz became the breakout character and the focus was shifted to him. The show was originally about the life of Richie and his friends and their adventures in high school but it is Fonzi's leather jacket that ended up in the Smithsonian 

I can't like this enough. That is exactly what I think of whenever discussion moves along those lines. But I think Sheldon was always the most unique character and a lot revolved around how people reacted to him. With Happy Days it was unintentional. With TBBT I'm not sure how they planned it. Or if they even did.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Die Zimtzicke

[bfm]

9 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I can't like this enough. That is exactly what I think of whenever discussion moves along those lines. But I think Sheldon was always the most unique character and a lot revolved around how people reacted to him. With Happy Days it was unintentional. With TBBT I'm not sure how they planned it. Or if they even did.

What they usually say about the show makes me think they wanted it to revolve around both Leonard and Sheldon but since season 2 the focus drifted more to Sheldon and IMO it only got worse with they years, especially in seasons 8-10.

[Stephen Hawking]

On 20/08/2017 at 10:46 PM, 3ku11 said:

The other couples are having more babies, and are getting engaged.

Only one couple is having babies, unless you know something the rest of us don't?  

[3ku11]

On 8/29/2017 at 8:24 AM, Stephen Hawking said:

Only one couple is having babies, unless you know something the rest of us don't?  

I meant Howardette are the ones having babies, and Shamy getting engaged. Mean while Lenny have stagnated. 

[djsurrey]

Just watched 6.15. Everyone is in a different place.

[Lettie]

The first few years of the show, I couldn't stand Sheldon and I couldn't understand why they hung around with him. It wasn't until they brought in Amy that I started to like Sheldon. She made him more human, to me.

[3ku11]

11 minutes ago, Lettie said:

The first few years of the show, I couldn't stand Sheldon and I couldn't understand why they hung around with him. It wasn't until they brought in Amy that I started to like Sheldon. She made him more human, to me.

Funny you say that, considering how robotic Amy was when she was first introduced. I think some prefered Sheldon when he was less human. Because the show has really centred and exposed his worst flaws and intracies. Before they started the "turning into a real boy" narrative, that most of the mainstream seems to enjoy. I can't say I find him likeable now Amy humanised him so to speak. I actually prefered him early on, I found him more endearing. 

[Stephen Hawking]

20 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Funny you say that, considering how robotic Amy was when she was first introduced.

Amy didn't stay "robotic" for very long, thanks to Penny and Bernadette.

[spidergirl]

21 hours ago, Lettie said:

The first few years of the show, I couldn't stand Sheldon and I couldn't understand why they hung around with him. It wasn't until they brought in Amy that I started to like Sheldon. She made him more human, to me.

I have always liked Sheldon, but in a different way before Amy. I mean ,before Amy I liked the scientist almost robotic Sheldon who are annoying and funny at same time for his eccenttries and quirks. After Sheldon met  Amy , what really got me about Sheldon was the way she challenged all his laws, routines and even his most personal tastes.  From  a narrative perspective, although for many the way Amy put Sheldon's  world upside down did not worked , for me made his character more deep beyond laughs and roll eyes moments for me as viewer. I think Amy and Bernie really were great addictions to the show as both made a funny and nice revolution in Howard and Sheldon lives and also open a nice door to Penny as she would have girl friends for hanging out and for talk about her kind of thoughts and opinions that Penny would not share with guys. A golden idea writers had in final of season 3 imo. Without them I doubt the show would go into 12 seasons.

Edited September 9, 2017 by spidergirl

[joyceraye]

On 09/09/2017 at 8:18 PM, Stephen Hawking said:

Amy didn't stay "robotic" for very long, thanks to Penny and Bernadette.

True ! Penny did a lot for both the girls and she too benefitted from knowing them. Amy's changes were more noticeable than the others'. She had a long way to go to leave her shell but she wanted to do it, and quickly, once she saw what there was outside it. Sheldon resisted all the changes he was perceiving in himself, although such resistance was to little avail in the end.

Edited September 11, 2017 by joyceraye

[serena_1995]

3 hours ago, spidergirl said:

. A golden idea writers had in final of season 3 imo. Without them I doubt the show would go into 12 seasons.

In general, I don't think longevity and ratings necessarily mean high quality and creativity.  Just because a show is 12 seasons long doesn't mean quality is good. That is subjective.  There are some, IMO,   awful long running TV shows ( for instance, i didn't  really like 2.5 Men) so I don't see the point . Likewise, many critically acclaimed award-winning shows get cancelled early on too. For tbbt,  IMO,  there was a period of time, where I felt they did have quality and  the writing  was (IMO) funny and sharp, especially Sheldon-centric humor(season 2-6) but I am not that sold on TBBT post season 7. Season 10 had some good episodes in the first half, but other than that ...not really. 

 

Edited September 10, 2017 by serena_1995

[spidergirl]

19 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

In general, I don't think longevity and ratings necessarily mean high quality and creativity.  Just because a show is 12 seasons long doesn't mean quality is good. That is subjective.  There are some, IMO,   awful long running TV shows ( for instance, i didn't  really like 2.5 Men) so I don't see the point . Likewise, many critically acclaimed award-winning shows get cancelled early on too. For tbbt,  IMO,  there was a period of time, where I felt they did have quality and  the writing  was (IMO) funny and sharp, especially Sheldon-centric humor(season 2-6) but I am not that sold on TBBT post season 7. Season 10 had some good episodes in the first half, but other than that ...not really. 

 

I think you missed my point. I did not implie that  longevity in tbbt case mean high quality and creativity. I had just meant I would not see tbbt could reach 12 seasons with only 5 characters as the addition of Amy and Bernie imo gave chance to develop more in a deeper way all characters interactions. That 's all I meant.