[Spoilers] Season 11 Shipping Lanes

[serena_1995]

On 9/8/2017 at 6:59 PM, Lettie said:

The first few years of the show, I couldn't stand Sheldon and I couldn't understand why they hung around with him. It wasn't until they brought in Amy that I started to like Sheldon. She made him more human, to me.

Really ? I confess, I loved Jim Parsons’ older work (esp s1-4). !      I was happy when Jim got nominated for his first Emmy and won (his first and only) Golden Globe -  in s2 and s4 respectively. Also,  i don't agree  that Jim failed to make Sheldon lovable and enjoyable on his own.  I think he largely succeeded and I felt Sheldon was always human and never a robot! This was also said(and shown) in an old pre-season 4  episode that he was caring and had emotions.  In many ways he was more endearing back then , than now.  A TV critic said in 2008, something I agreed with: Sheldon has become a character to love, and  Jim Parsons is doing something rare on network TV: making intellectualism admirable, even heroic .  But my liking of Sheldon was never really dependent and conditional only on Amy. I liked Sheldon for who he was- for himself.  I find Sheldon less interesting now post s6  and the overuse of Sheldon just magnifies it.

Another thing : I think there are many times when Sheldon comes across to me as intentionally mean-spirited,  unfunny, petty, unhappy, regressed, childish , washed up and failing in his career in later seasons. Like wise there were many times Sheldon came across to me as innocent, sharp, funny, insightful, well meaning, intelligent and perfectly content in the earlier seasons.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have deeper issues but I don't view it as black and white  at all. 

[Stephen Hawking]

13 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

Just because a show is 12 seasons long doesn't mean quality is good.

But it does mean it's popular, so either it is high quality, or, lots of people enjoy low quality shows.

13 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

That is subjective.

Of course it's subjective. There's no objective way to quantify the quality of a TV show.

It's down to the opinion of the viewer.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 9/8/2017 at 6:14 PM, 3ku11 said:

Funny you say that, considering how robotic Amy was when she was first introduced.

Amy had never had friends. Once she saw what it was like to be included in a group, that was all she needed. She took it too far with Penny, trying to do all of that goofy BFF stuff girls usually do in middle school, but that passed fairly quickly.

2 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

But it does mean it's popular, so either it is high quality, or, lots of people enjoy low quality shows.

Lots of people do enjoy low quality shows, or at least stick with good shows that lose quality through habit. If numbers meant everything Danielle Steele would be one of the greatest authors ever, Justin Bieber would be one of the greatest singers ever, and Frozen would be the greatest animated film of all time. Not everyone would agree with that, but that's the way it is.

On 8/25/2017 at 3:28 AM, 3ku11 said:

So not sure I agree with the characterisation Leonard shows passion. And that's not to say Penny does too. But they both contributed to the lack of passion in their relationship. I think this is a writing issue anyway. Always has been. 

Good resume of the situation.

[Stephen Hawking]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

If numbers meant everything Danielle Steele would be one of the greatest authors ever, Justin Bieber would be one of the greatest singers ever, and Frozen would be the greatest animated film of all time.

In the eyes of their fans, they will be the greatest author, singer and film of all time.

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not everyone would agree with that, but that's the way it is.

Hence why it's a subjective, as opposed to objective, matter.

There is no objective way to judge an author, a singer, a film, or even a TV show.

This demonstrates that Sheldon was wrong, when he stated that "Everything is quantifiable."

[joyceraye]

12 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

Another thing : I think there are many times when Sheldon comes across to me as intentionally mean-spirited,  unfunny, petty, unhappy, regressed, childish , washed up and failing in his career in later seasons. Like wise there were many times Sheldon came across to me as innocent, sharp, funny, insightful, well meaning, intelligent and perfectly content in the earlier seasons.  That doesn't mean he doesn't have deeper issues but I don't view it as black and white  at all. 

I'm reminded of when Raj was finally able to speak to women if he drank :  'He's an ass all the time.You just don't hear it.'

Sheldon takes unfair advantage at times of  the way allowances are made for him when others are thinking he's a poor broken baby who can't help it. He uses that attitude to hide all those negative characteristics serena_1995 mentioned. I wish Emily S was still around. She refused to take Sheldon's BS. 

[legacy99]

It's unfortunate that there can't be any characters that don't bow down and worship sheldon on the program any longer

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[djsurrey]

18 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

It's unfortunate that there can't be any characters that don't bow down and worship sheldon on the program any longer

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Could happen at any moment unexpectedly. 

[legacy99]

I really kind of miss when penny didn't put with him I also miss Leslie and the others that didn't put up with some of the things sheldon did jmo but i think the show was funnier then


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[3ku11]

The show does really miss the conflict between Penny and Sheldon. But they've grown .

I understand the characters were allowed to develop. When Amy and Bernadette became series regulars by Season 4. But I also agree with the assessment that quality is subjective. But so is popularity. I mean Quantity comes to mind when I think of this show. I'm just saying popularity does not = < >. Aka Good or bad. 

You could argue it's peak season, was Season 6. So creatively it's declined. Since. Money talks though. I see as creativity replaced by financial gain. Drive the show into the ground. But as this show makes hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for the studio yearly. They continue to back the truck up. Of course this show may get to the point, it becomes to expensive to produce. 

But it is systematic of this show since Season 7. When it became very Sheldon driven. To me it became a very disappointing sequel. I mentioned how they focused and centred on Sheldons quirks, and worst flaws. Problem is by overusing the character of Sheldon. You pretty much just expose his worst flaws. Ironically I found Sheldon more intelligent and caring s1-3. Then I do now. He's more childish, petty, degressed, unfunny e.tc. These days. 

So It's funny people say he's more human now. I disagree. I found him more endearing and charming Seasons 1-3. By Season 4 the writing of his character almost became comical. He lost all the intricacies, traits, and quirks that made him so unique. His intelligence has almost diminished some what. It's almost like they've dumbed him down some what. A lot of it's too do with the quality of writing. Or lack of. Of course like Serena said. Doesent mean their are not deeper issues with the character of Sheldon. Or any of the characters. It's not black and white. 

 His inability to relate to any human being was replaced by a "he's becoming a real boy" narrative. That clearly most of the mainstream enjoy.

Another point was made, that no one is allowed to stand up to Sheldon anymore. I do miss the days of Halcyon Sheldon. And when Penny used to spar with him. But once the Winners wins. Penny and Leonard are just their to accomodate the winner now. Almost like Sheldon has broken down their will lol. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by 3ku11

[3ku11]

12 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

But it does mean it's popular, so either it is high quality, or, lots of people enjoy low quality shows.

Of course it's subjective. There's no objective way to quantify the quality of a TV show.

It's down to the opinion of the viewer.

. So your basically saying tbb sucks? Yeah I agree ;).

[Capt. Hilts]

1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

It's unfortunate that there can't be any characters that don't bow down and worship sheldon on the program any longer

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The women don't.

[3ku11]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

The women don't.

Amy's and Penny don't. Penny used to stand up to Sheldon. But not anymore. Only time I can remember when they diddnt when Bernadette called out Sheldon for constantly criticising Howard's work. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by 3ku11

[legacy99]

I really miss Leslie maybe someone else could start calling him dumbs** again but i guess sheldon is too important for that now

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[joyceraye]

On 10/09/2017 at 1:56 PM, Stephen Hawking said:

But it does mean it's popular, so either it is high quality, or, lots of people enjoy low quality shows.

Of course it's subjective. There's no objective way to quantify the quality of a TV show.

It's down to the opinion of the viewer.

Agreed. I'm not sure quality of a TV programme has ever been measurable : there's no scale that I'm aware of.  However, it can't be doubted that such programmes as The Tudors and Land Girls are so full of inaccuracies that it's hardly a matter of opinion that they're not good as revsion material for history exams. A lot depends on the claims made for them. If we're told something is educational when it's definitely not, then that's bad.  Philippa Gregory,for instance, drives me crackers  but she only claims to be a novelist. Historical novelists  do research and then decide which historical facts to use and and which to change. They make TV serials from  PG's books and she, I hope, is adequately rewarded. I don't watch what she's  written because I know I can't trust the scripts and I don't want to be misled into thinking I'm being informed. Not everyone cares about such things.  Some viewers do not care about quality or accuracy so long as they can enjoy the story. It's a matter of taste. If in TBBT Sheldon called water CO2 and referred to Marie Curie's discovery of gravity when he was being serious  I would call it a poor quality show. I would find such matters distracting coming from a scientist. My enjoyment would fall and my annoyance would rise. In nobody's opinion could it be good writing, but as to whether or not it mattered would depend on the individual.

Edited September 11, 2017 by joyceraye

[Stephen Hawking]

18 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

. So your basically saying tbb sucks? Yeah I agree ;).

Not at all.

I'm saying a show may be popular and of high quality, or it may be popular and of low quality.

Either is equally possible.

[joyceraye]

1 minute ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Not at all.

I'm saying a show may be popular and of high quality, or it may be popular and of low quality.

Either is equally possible.

Or it may vary in quality and popularity from week to week.

[bfm]

18 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The show does really miss the conflict between Penny and Sheldon. But they've grown .

I understand the characters were allowed to develop. When Amy and Bernadette became series regulars by Season 4. But I also agree with the assessment that quality is subjective. But so is popularity. I mean Quantity comes to mind when I think of this show. I'm just saying popularity does not = < >. Aka Good or bad. 

You could argue it's peak season, was Season 6. So creatively it's declined. Since. Money talks though. I see as creativity replaced by financial gain. Drive the show into the ground. But as this show makes hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for the studio yearly. They continue to back the truck up. Of course this show may get to the point, it becomes to expensive to produce. 

But it is systematic of this show since Season 7. When it became very Sheldon driven. To me it became a very disappointing sequel. I mentioned how they focused and centred on Sheldons quirks, and worst flaws. Problem is by overusing the character of Sheldon. You pretty much just expose his worst flaws. Ironically I found Sheldon more intelligent and caring s1-3. Then I do now. He's more childish, petty, degressed, unfunny e.tc. These days. 

So It's funny people say he's more human now. I disagree. I found him more endearing and charming Seasons 1-3. By Season 4 the writing of his character almost became comical. He lost all the intricacies, traits, and quirks that made him so unique. His intelligence has almost diminished some what. It's almost like they've dumbed him down some what. A lot of it's too do with the quality of writing. Or lack of. Of course like Serena said. Doesent mean their are not deeper issues with the character of Sheldon. Or any of the characters. It's not black and white. 

 His inability to relate to any human being was replaced by a "he's becoming a real boy" narrative. That clearly most of the mainstream enjoy.

Another point was made, that no one is allowed to stand up to Sheldon anymore. I do miss the days of Halcyon Sheldon. And when Penny used to spar with him. But once the Winners wins. Penny and Leonard are just their to accomodate the winner now. Almost like Sheldon has broken down their will lol. 

Sheldon: "Why would I change?"

Leonard: "The hope has been that you'd eventually bend to public opinion."

(Season 4/ "The Irish Pub Formulation")

(Happened to watch it today)

[Stephen Hawking]

18 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

But I also agree with the assessment that quality is subjective. But so is popularity.

I disagree.

Popularity is very much quantifiable.

You can measure the popularity of a show/book/singer etc., by counting the number of people who watch the show, buy the DVDs and Blurays, buy/borrow the book, buy the record or go to the concert.

19 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

They continue to back the truck up.

Over Moondance?  

18 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Only time I can remember when they didn't when Bernadette called out Sheldon for constantly criticising Howard's work. 

Although, on that occasion, it turned out Howard had indeed earned Sheldon's wrath.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 9/10/2017 at 11:07 AM, joyceraye said:

I wish Emily S was still around. She refused to take Sheldon's BS. 

I personally hated Emily but I loved Leslie and she did the same thing.

On 9/10/2017 at 7:23 PM, legacy99 said:

I really kind of miss when penny didn't put with him I also miss Leslie and the others that didn't put up with some of the things sheldon did jmo but i think the show was funnier then

I've said this often. Them being friends does not help the comedy at all for me. It was funniest to me when he was needling her about how stupid she was and she was calling him out for how eccentric he was. The show lost a lot for me when that stopped.

On 9/11/2017 at 6:46 AM, joyceraye said:

Agreed. I'm not sure quality of a TV programme has ever been measurable : there's no scale that I'm aware of.  However, it can't be doubted that such programmes as The Tudors and Land Girls are so full of inaccuracies that it's hardly a matter of opinion that they're not good as revsion material for history exams. A lot depends on the claims made for them. If we're told something is educational when it's definitely not, then that's bad.  

I work at a living history farm and dealing with the Disney-fication of history has made me crazy many a time. Don't ever get me started on Native American programming and what people think they learned from watching Pocahontas.

[veejay]

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

..

I've said this often. Them being friends does not help the comedy at all for me. It was funniest to me when he was needling her about how stupid she was and she was calling him out for how eccentric he was. The show lost a lot for me when that stopped.

..

I definitely agree with this part.

[Chrismo]

19 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

 

Popularity is very much quantifiable.

 

People on here, not you specifically, point out the show is more popular than any other comedy. But the fact is the show is less popular based on numbers. People having more options now or less viewers watching in total is irrelevant.

3 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

 

I've said this often. Them being friends does not help the comedy at all for me. It was funniest to me when he was needling her about how stupid she was and she was calling him out for how eccentric he was. The show lost a lot for me when that stopped.

 

Part of the problem with that was it got old after a certain period of time. JMO but more of a problem is the show generally focusing on just one couple.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Chrismo

[3ku11]

Shows popularity is declining as it is. Popularity to me has never equaled quality. For me anyway. Theirs a lot of popular series's on tv that are well popular. That the quality is quantifiable. 

I agree the problem is not the Penny and Sheldon dynamic changing. Therefore the comedy has gone down hill. That dynamic I agree got old after a period of time. The show needs fresh new storylines now to keep the show sustainable. But they are hindered on focusing on only one couple. That's partly why we're getting recycled stories, and repeated cannon now. They are taking less risks. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by 3ku11

[veejay]

6 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Shows popularity is declining as it is. Popularity to me has never equaled quality. For me anyway. Theirs a lot of popular series's on tv that are well popular. That the quality is quantifiable. 

I agree the problem is not the Penny and Sheldon dynamic changing. Therefore the comedy has gone down hill. That dynamic I agree got old after a period of time. The show needs fresh new storylines now to keep the show sustainable. But they are hindered on focusing on only one couple. That's partly why we're getting recycled stories, and repeated cannon now. They are taking less risks. 

I wouldn’t say "focusing on only one couple", but…

...no Sheldon, in this modern age, you're wrong and usually just a pain in my ass.

[Carlos]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:41 PM, legacy99 said:

I really miss Leslie. Maybe someone else could start calling him dumbs** again, but I guess Sheldon is too important for that now.

I do too. A couple of nights ago, I saw a re-run of "The barbarian sublimation" which is the episode in which Penny goes berserk playing that online game (I forgot what it was called). I couldn't count how many times Leslie calls Sheldon "dumb-ass", and it was hilarious. Sara's appearance in the 200th episode, having Leslie being all friendly to Sheldon was, IMO, pathetic. I also hate the fact that TPTB have made Penny bow down to Sheldon. It used to be much funnier when they would go against each other.

[veejay]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

I do too. A couple of nights ago, I saw a re-run of "The barbarian sublimation" which is the episode in which Penny goes berserk playing that online game (I forgot what it was called). I couldn't count how many times Leslie calls Sheldon "dumb-ass", and it was hilarious. Sara's appearance in the 200th episode, having Leslie being all friendly to Sheldon was, IMO, pathetic. I also hate the fact that TPTB have made Penny bow down to Sheldon. It used to be much funnier when they would go against each other.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.