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Chit Chat: Season 11


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1 minute ago, joyceraye said:

Historically slaves were white. They were captured from as far west as the British Isles and taken back to the middle east and Rome. The trade of African slaves was mainly within the African continent, although some were traded elsewhere. 

 

I’m not sure you followed up with the readings about what the Americans sometime refer to as their original sin

 

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1 minute ago, Nogravitasatall said:

All this makes me more content with Megan and Harry.  Ginger and African American.  Must spin some heads. They’re so cute.

(Never mind about the whole aristocracy thing. Let’s just set that aside for now. But all current things considered there are some benefits to constitutional monarchy) 

 

The African gene is said to be the reason some of the royals grow a naval full set - ie a moustache and beard. On a white man  the full mouth some of them have inherited can look effeminate and has led to rumours of homosexuality. 

As for a constitutional monarchy - well it's one less election we don't have to suffer. We moan enough about disruptions to the TV when we have to vote for the House of Commons every five years and local councillors a maximum of three. If we had to elect a Head of State as well there'd probably be a mass boycott of TV licences and any commercial channels carrying PPBs  (Party-Political Broadcasts ) I suppose it's sad when one thinks of the struggles for universal suffrage. My great great grandmother lost her licence to run her pub because she allowed a Chartist meeting to take place. The irony is I wonder if she'd have let them in had she known one of their aims was 'manhood suffrage ' which was to mean she'd lose her vote. Historically when the Head of State hasn't been good at the job there've been rather drastic ways of getting rid of them without a vote. Probably wouldn't be acceptable these days. 

It used to be said the reason they had to put George III away was brought on by stress at losing the American colonies. It's now thought to be a blood disease. Upon his recovery there was national rejoicing - probably because his son was carp.

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On 5/30/2018 at 4:01 AM, JE7 said:

And no I will never again go to a Disney park or watch one of their shows. Their PC crusade has ruined the Muppets and star wars already I won't encourage them to do more with any financial support

We're having a family reunion at Disney. I will spend a week in a villa at the Contemporary with all of my kids and my grandkids, and it was not chosen with politics in mind. It was chosen because that's where most of the family wanted to go.

19 hours ago, Chrismo said:

But if they revamped the show not to include Roseanne that may have worked.

I don't think so. I don't think they are interested especially since she has a controlling interest in it and they would have had to deal with her on some level. They want nothing to do with her. 

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5 hours ago, chucky said:

I fear that as long as there are different races, there will be racism. As long as there is hate, then there'll be racism. It can and it will get better, but, it will never go away completely. 

The sad thing is, racism is a cultural construct, not a biological one. We all bleed red

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11 hours ago, April said:

It's not my intention to twist your words but what am I supposed to take away from your post when the topic at hand ultimately is racism in the USA and you're going on a tangent about gingers in the UK?

Yes I suppose I should have left those two sentences out. Thinking aloud  that aside was, nothing to do with racism, more complimenting modern-day Americans, if a trifle ironically. Like early Sheldon, if something comes to mind tangentally, I might say it, especially in the early hours of the morning, relevant or not. I was responding to points about genes and intended to give examples of how it was wrong to call oneself something one was not,merely on the strength of what one's relatives were. ( I'd be able to say I was Welsh,which I'd love to, if  it were right,but I don't want to be dishonest. ) Reading  posts I gather,however, not only is it not frowned on in America, but expected over there. Whodda thunk it ?

Of my three closest friends  two are very black women from the West Indies who married white men. If any of the children called themselves 'black' we'd all be upset. That would be very disrespectful. You just don't dismiss half your family like that. Not that the subject comes up all that much.

My godson, my gorgeous boy, calls himself 'mixed race' which is the usual term at present. When he was making a video for Show Racism the Red Card  he said, ' I'm mixed race because my mother's black and my father's white'. 'Mixed race' seems to be the acceptable phrase du jour. Years ago the term used to be 'half-cast(e)' , when children were writing about themselves, but that's out of fashion, because it sounds a bit offensive, as if somebody's not done a proper job. I never liked it.

For the first thirty years of my life, it was considered extremely rude to say 'black' about anybody, by the way. Sorry if that's a bit of a tangent. Another topic perhaps.

 

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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I’m not sure you followed up with the readings about what the Americans sometime refer to as their original sin

 

Just showing they're not always first with everything. 

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I was responding to points about genes and intended to give examples of how it was wrong to call oneself something one was not,merely on the strength of what one's relatives were.

But that is not what happens here in the US.  It was the white people, in the 1700-1800s, who would determine whether someone was black, and if they were, they could be subjected to enslavement.  After the Civil War, a great-grand parent who was black, even if the rest of the family was white (which would make them 1/16th black), would be considered black, by racist whites, and subjected to all the degradations a fully black person was subjected to.   

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Of my three closest friends  two are very black women from the West Indies who married white men. If any of the children called themselves 'black' we'd all be upset. That would be very disrespectful. You just don't dismiss half your family like that. Not that the subject comes up all that much.

Again, how it is handled is very different in the US. In the US, it's not a question of someone dismissing their family.  

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

My godson, my gorgeous boy, calls himself 'mixed race' which is the usual term at present. When he was making a video for Show Racism the Red Card  he said, ' I'm mixed race because my mother's black and my father's white'. 'Mixed race' seems to be the acceptable phrase du jour. Years ago the term used to be 'half-cast(e)' , when children were writing about themselves, but that's out of fashion, because it sounds a bit offensive, as if somebody's not done a proper job. I never liked it.

There are various terms that are acceptable in the US to describe multi-racial individuals.   There are also various terms that are not acceptable, due to connotations or associations with racism, bigotry, or prejudice.  

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

For the first thirty years of my life, it was considered extremely rude to say 'black' about anybody, by the way. Sorry if that's a bit of a tangent. Another topic perhaps.

In the US the term Black replaced the older terms Negro or colored, starting in the mid 60s and in the late 80s, the term African American became the main word to describe those who could trace their decent to Africa.   

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Just showing they're not always first with everything. 

But, that isn't the main problem with race in the US.  I suggest you also read up on the imposition of Jim Crow laws and segregation in the US.  While those have been outlawed, attitudes can't be outlawed, and change more slowly.  The history of blacks in the UK is much different than the history of blacks in the US.   

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

Has TBS cancelled Samantha Bee?

Well, it’s not a racial slur.  It’s two women, so it’s inside the grouping - it’s not like one is “othering” the other. There is no punching down so it’s not an abuse of power. It’s not referencing hundreds of years of oppression and disregarding that human suffering.

It’s not used in day to day conversation that often,  so I will allow  “feckless” is a difficult word to use publicly.

so I’d think S Bee’s show should weather this.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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44 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Well, it’s not a racial slur.  It’s two women, so it’s inside the grouping - it’s not like one is “othering” the other. There is no punching down so it’s not an abuse of power. It’s not referencing hundreds of years of oppression and disregarding that human suffering.

It’s not used in day to day conversation that often,  so I will allow  “feckless” is a difficult word to use publicly.

so I’d think S Bee’s show should weather this.

So _unt is okay. Just because it's not a racial slur doesn't make it excusable. Her show is scripted so her line was planned and well known by staffers. What Roseanne was inexcusable but it certainly wasn't planned.

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It’s about cancellation of comedic topical shows now.
 
Must have missed that bit. Lol Yeah still. Lots of stuff about colour in the mix.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Must have missed that bit. Lol Yeah still. Lots of stuff about colour in the mix.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

I think it’s an argument about the kleptocrats in this case. So one case is not like the other.

10 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

So _unt is okay. Just because it's not a racial slur doesn't make it excusable. Her show is scripted so her line was planned and well known by staffers. What Roseanne was inexcusable but it certainly wasn't planned.

Yes, they are not the same case.

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14 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Maybe, maybe not.. who knows.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

No. Not the same. Still arguable as to appropriatness but fundamentally different. Not equivalent. I’ve said some of the reasons - but mainly it’s about who has the power. 

:) 

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No. Not the same. Still arguable as to appropriatness but fundamentally different. Not equivalent. I’ve said some of the reasons - but mainly it’s about who has the power. 
 
True but mixing comedy with appropriatness is always going to not end well. As in Rosanna's case.

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22 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

True but mixing comedy with appropriatness is always going to not end well. As in Rosanna's case.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

But Roseanne wasn’t being funny. She was being racist. That’s not being inappropriate. That’s being racist.

 I do think kleptocrats deserve some strong push back, as a rule. Also I’d be pissed if my head of state’s daughter was making bank and posturing with her kids on instagram while her dad’s policies separate mothers and children and then blamed the opposition for what he’d authorised. So I understand the strong feelings in this case. But the show rolled the dice. Let’s see what happens. Might is right sometimes. 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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5 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

But Roseanne wasn’t being funny. She was being racist. That’s not being inappropriate. That’s being racist.

 I do think kleptocrats deserve some strong push back, as a rule. Also I’d be pissed if my head of state’s daughter was making bank and posturing with her kids on instagram while her dad’s policies separate mothers and children and then blamed the opposition for what he’d authorised. So I understand the strong feelings in this case. But the show rolled the dice. Let’s see what happens. Might is right sometimes. 

I’m sorry using the c word is never right. You can disagree all you want with the Trumps (without him she wouldn’t have a show) but it never should have gotten to that point. No

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

I’m sorry using the c word is never right. You can disagree all you want with the Trumps (without him she wouldn’t have a show) but it never should have gotten to that point. No

But is it a cancellation inducing event? I’m not so sure it should be. It will have to play out. But if politics shuts it down then it’s just about the politics not the word - which is just not imbued with any meaning here other than a strong protest.  And the Hustler case resolved profanity as allowable in protected speech (I think). 

So it’ll be a commercial issue, unless politics means that it isn’t.

edit: she apologised and withdrew the remark, so let’s see if they survive. I still think they shouldn’t be canned for this, considering their retraction and circumstances. But it’s still punching up in my view. Crass, but maybe no worse than using any other crass expression, if you unpack it.

 

 

1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

Madness, by all lights except Peter Navarro’s. 

Hey, I was in Calgary in May. Nice aerodrome. Banff to Jasper was gorgeous.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

But Roseanne wasn’t being funny. She was being racist. That’s not being inappropriate. That’s being racist.

I have looked for some explanation of why Roseanne was even talking about Valerie Jarrett. This is what I found:

from https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/roseanne-barr-should-blame-trump-most-of-all/2018/05/31/4b2e3f6a-6515-11e8-99d2-0d678ec08c2f_story.html?utm_term=.4e55404dab54

Quote

Why would Barr, out of the blue, attack Jarrett, who hasn’t been in the news since Obama left office a year and a half ago? Because many on the paranoid, hard-right fringe remain obsessed with Obama and those who served in his administration. They find it impossible to accept the fact that an African American man, surrounded by other African Americans, was elected president twice and served honorably and successfully for eight years.

Jarrett, whom Obama met when he lived and worked in Chicago, was born in Iran to African American parents. This happenstance fuels the fevered delusions of anti-Muslim bigots who paint her and Obama himself — yes, I know this is beyond ridiculous — as Islamic sleeper agents or moles or something, bent on destroying America. 

 

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9 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Of my three closest friends  two are very black women from the West Indies who married white men. If any of the children called themselves 'black' we'd all be upset. That would be very disrespectful. You just don't dismiss half your family like that. Not that the subject comes up all that much.

You can't do that easily in the US and the subject comes up constantly. That is why Obama was the first black president and Vanessa Williams was the first black Miss America.  For most people if you have any African blood in you, you are black. I don't see the point in it, but that's the way it usually is and has been since before the Civil War. I remember well when you used colored or negro unless you were light enough to pass as white, which many did. Then they were denying the black heritage they had. I do think mixed race is better and I'm glad more people are using it.

Edited by Die Zimtzicke

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21 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

You can't do that easily in the US and the subject comes up constantly. That is why Obama was the first black president and Vanessa Williams was the first black Miss America.  For most people if you have any African blood in you, you are black. I don't see the point in it, but that's the way it usually is and has been since before the Civil War. I remember well when you used colored or negro unless you were light enough to pass as white, which many did. Then they were denying the black heritage they had. I do think mixed race is better and I'm glad more p[eople are using it.

We in Oz still have roads called Boundary Rd and that was the road you could not cross if you were black. One day they might get around to renaming or labelling them so people get it. And we confiscated kids who looked white, who lived in black families - there is even have a label for them - the Stolen Generation. One of our national tragedies, in retrospect. Reconciliation is hard.

Asking the people involved is a good way to get the nomenclature correct these days. I’m not that sure that mixed race is a good generic. I’m mixed but the races are all the same colour. So what’s the point of that label?

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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