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Chit Chat: Season 11


Tensor
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10 hours ago, Carlos said:

While you're right in your assessment that Roseanne's behavior shouldn't be a shock to anyone, it also shouldn't be a shock to Roseanne that ABC reacted in the way it did, should it? 

No, as I've said before what shocks me is that anyone wanted to work with her knowing what a loose cannon she is.

 

10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Maybe if it was on another network like FX, HBO, Fox. Things might have been different. 

Quite true.

 

4 hours ago, JE7 said:

And the left has dropped all pretense of civility and fairness in their fight to halt that swing. In today's world EVERYTHING is political

Yes, everything is political now. There have been, however, plenty of less than civil things said on both sides and they've been said for a long time. I don't like many politicians and think both of the presidential candidates were awful choices and it should not have come down to them. But Trump is wrong when he says to his supporters that he has been vilified more than any other president. If he were a history student he'd know some of the things that were said about Andrew Jackson and his wife Rachel (the stress of the campaign aggravated already existing health problems and she died right before she was supposed to move in the White House) Abraham Lincoln (the Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum has a whole exhibit on the crap he had to take from the media and other politicians) or yes, even Obama, not that I was a huge fan of everything Obama did.  This meme really struck me when I first saw it because I remembered all of these things, along with the store display where they made him into a witch doctor.

OBAMAeffigies3.jpg

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3 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Because I like to ask...

Aren’t the two women treated differently because they did different things?

One person made broad references because of presumed and factually unfounded associations that paint a whole set of humans with negative connotations and the other made very specific evidence based assertions that included a very personal and directed verbal exclamation point.

this might be better expressed but the gist is one person hit out without evidence and one person did not.  So, different actions should get different results. No?

But if Sean Hannity said the c word instead of Samantha Bee would he still have a job?  Would people backed him up if he had said that about Michelle Obama?

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6 hours ago, JE7 said:

I dont agree with or approve of what either woman said but the totally opposite treatment of them simply goes to show that there is a double standard in our country

You mean like how Trump and his supporters called his political opponent the same word as Samantha Bee used?   How Trumps campaign sold  T-shirts and sweat shirts, again referring to his political opponent,  during the campaign with that same word.  But, somehow they now object to that same word when it's used to refer to someone they like.  

 Or how about the evangelicals objecting to President Clinton's behavior (and no, I didn't approve of it), but somehow it's now fine for their candidate.  On the back of that, their objection to his lying about his sexual escapades, yet they have no problems with the more numerous lies of Trump.  

Or should we mention the Republicans who did all they could to obstruct Obama (The number one priority is to make Obama a one term president, or how they refused to consider Obama's supreme court nominee), but now they cry because the democrats are obstructing all the Republicans want to do (evidently forgetting that the republicans control both houses of congress and the presidency).  

 

Quote

And the left has dropped all pretense of civility and fairness in their fight to halt that swing. 

Not to mention Trump's lack of civility during the primary campaign, the election campaign and during his presidency.   The right can be just as bad.   

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

But if Sean Hannity said the c word instead of Samantha Bee would he still have a job?  Would people backed him up if he had said that about Michelle Obama?

It would depend on who he was referring to when he said it.   Michelle Obama, probably.   Ivanka?  Probably not.  He already gets away with instigating and repeating some of the most ridiculous conspiracies now.  Double Standard indeed.  

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3 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Back to Roseanne, ABC is actively looking into a Barr-free spin off, as long as they can figure out a way to cut her off the finantial revenues! Good luck with that...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/roseanne-canceled-abc-open-spinoff-ideas-1116621?__twitter_impression=true

I'd be interested in a Darlene centered show about her becoming the center of the family after Roseanne dies during the knee surgery. 

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9 minutes ago, Carm6773 said:

I'd be interested in a Darlene centered show about her becoming the center of the family after Roseanne dies during the knee surgery. 

Sounds like a wonderful idea.

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15 minutes ago, Carm6773 said:

I'd be interested in a Darlene centered show about her becoming the center of the family after Roseanne dies during the knee surgery. 

I'd watch that if the scripts were as good.

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7 hours ago, JE7 said:

I dont agree with or approve of what either woman said but the totally opposite treatment of them simply goes to show that there is a double standard in our country and it is especially prominent in our entertainment industry. If you are a liberal as most in Hollywood are you can say anything and they will find a way to excuse you if you aren't a liberal the media and news will vilify you to the most extreme possible in the hopes that others like you will just not say anything.

This seems to ignore the facts that they worked with different people and did different things. I don't watch and don't like shows like full frontal and am annoyed even at the advertising for it but I also don't see any equivalence or double standard. It was not the same people making the decision. The difference is that writers working with SB would have had an opportunity to voice opposition to the offensive comment. That segment could have been cut. There would have been opportunity for some sober second thought. They all ran with it. There is no story here, as far as I am aware that anyone involved said perhaps that is going too far. In the Roseanne case the offensive comment was on twitter. No one but Roseanne had any control over it. No one else approved it. No one can stop her from doing this again whenever she feels like it. A totally different situation.

7 hours ago, JE7 said:

The left have been on the rise for decades and we see where that has gotten us, people are waking up Brexit, the Trump presidency  and the recent election results in Italy not to mention the Visigard countries show that the pendulum is swinging back to the more Conservative view.  And the left has dropped all pretense of civility and fairness in their fight to halt that swing.

I'm having trouble following the logic here. I understand that the "pendulum" is swinging wildly back and forth but I don't see how that can  be attributed to just one side. There are so many factors in play here.

Edited by djsurrey
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3 hours ago, Chrismo said:

But if Sean Hannity said the c word instead of Samantha Bee would he still have a job?  Would people backed him up if he had said that about Michelle Obama?

Given what his network has given its hosts a pass on because they have high ratings, yeah, he'd still have a job.

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3 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Given what his network has given its hosts a pass on because they have high ratings, yeah, he'd still have a job.

And if he used the racist labelling directly maybe he wouldn’t. Perhaps he can give it a go and we’ll see. But I think even he knows 

I don’t understand how the two insults can be considered equivalent. One is personal and universal (sadly) and the other specifically about certain groups and carries the weight of centuries of misery and violence. One is a common insult  (I’ve heard it said by women of women, in places from boardrooms to kitchens), the other - well I don’t know - maybe I heard such as a kid  in the playground or in a pub from some obnoxious drunk trying to be provocative. 

Id be happy to hear the counter argument- as to why they are the same. :) 

 

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7 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

And if he used the racist labelling directly maybe he wouldn’t. Perhaps he can give it a go and we’ll see. But I think even he knows 

I don’t understand how the two insults can be considered equivalent. One is personal and universal (sadly) and the other specifically about certain groups and carries the weight of centuries of misery and violence. One is a common insult  (I’ve heard it said by women of women, in places from boardrooms to kitchens), the other - well I don’t know - maybe I heard such as a kid  in the playground or in a pub from some obnoxious drunk trying to be provocative. 

Id be happy to hear the counter argument- as to why they are the same. :) 

 

I agree!

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46 minutes ago, chucky said:

I agree!

Here is a discussion of the c...  MA rated (content advisory)

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ivanka-trump-samantha-bee-and-the-strange-path-of-an-ancient-epithet

Other people are better at this than me... obviously.

Edit: and just for fun, picture the TBBT cold open, where the etymology could be discussed. I think Amy and Penny might be a hoot on the topic. Sheldon would be fantastic. Leonard might not know where to look. 

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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8 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

You mean like how Trump and his supporters called his political opponent the same word as Samantha Bee used?   How Trumps campaign sold  T-shirts and sweat shirts, again referring to his political opponent,  during the campaign with that same word.  But, somehow they now object to that same word when it's used to refer to someone they like.  

 Or how about the evangelicals objecting to President Clinton's behavior (and no, I didn't approve of it), but somehow it's now fine for their candidate.  On the back of that, their objection to his lying about his sexual escapades, yet they have no problems with the more numerous lies of Trump.  

Or should we mention the Republicans who did all they could to obstruct Obama (The number one priority is to make Obama a one term president, or how they refused to consider Obama's supreme court nominee), but now they cry because the democrats are obstructing all the Republicans want to do (evidently forgetting that the republicans control both houses of congress and the presidency).  

 

Not to mention Trump's lack of civility during the primary campaign, the election campaign and during his presidency.   The right can be just as bad.   

It would depend on who he was referring to when he said it.   Michelle Obama, probably.   Ivanka?  Probably not.  He already gets away with instigating and repeating some of the most ridiculous conspiracies now.  Double Standard indeed.  

Wow, your political bias is certainly showing through.

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32 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:
1 hour ago, chucky said:

I agree!

Here is a discussion of the c...  MA rated (content advisory)

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ivanka-trump-samantha-bee-and-the-strange-path-of-an-ancient-epithet

Other people are better at this than me... obviously.

Well it said nothing about how the two controversies are the same. (the are not)

Edited by djsurrey

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17 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Well it said nothing about how the two controversies are the same. (the are not)

Yeah, I just thought of it as background information. It’s informative.

I did enjoy Sally Fields tweet. Ms Driver’s was funny too, though I heard it before. Betty White once did a joke about the pros and cons of using genitals to describe fortitude - that’s funny also, maybe because she looks like a grandma as she says it. And it does address the implicit sexism in the use of the female anatomy as pejorative. I don’t have a link for that but it’s out there.

28 minutes ago, ajond said:

Wow, your political bias is certainly showing through.

No I think he’s laying out some facts. And maybe some editorialising. But the facts are there. One can’t be “holier than thou” once one has admitted grabbing a kitty. Never mind the Stormy story etc. No high road left for the American right I’d think.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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1 minute ago, ajond said:

Wow, your political bias is certainly showing through.

How is it political bias to point out things that are all well known?   I was simply giving examples to show the right, also participates in double standard.  What is a double standard usually depends on your point of view.  As for the rest,  I thought the implication of 'as the left" at the end of "The right can be just as bad" was clear.  If it wasn't, I hope this clears it up.  

If it wasn't clear as to who it's OK for Hannity to bash (nothing wrong with that, it happens on the left also, my complaint was the wild unsupported claims) just look to the last few days and Trey Gowdy.  

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I seriously applaud everyone's true diligence in retrieving and sharing this data and opinions. iIn my opinion all of this doesn't matter. You, me and no one else on this forum will factor in the decision making in any of these matters. TPTB of each network will make those decisions. The only thing we can do is live with their decisions. Oh we can bitch, moan, groan and argue til the cows come home. As for me, I'm too old and too tired to really care. I will leave the arguing to you kind, wonderful members of the forum. I am going to respectfully see my way out of this discussion.

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37 minutes ago, chucky said:

Oh we can bitch, moan, groan and argue til the cows come home.

...and try to get some understanding of what is happening and why. Frankly when I first heard I was rather confused as to what Roseanne was up to.

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Just now, djsurrey said:

...and try to get some understanding of what is happening and why. Frankly when I first heard I was rather confused as to what Roseanne was up to.

I don't care. She screwed up and then got fired. Bad thing is she got a lot of good let go as well.

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8 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

...and try to get some understanding of what is happening and why. Frankly when I first heard I was rather confused as to what Roseanne was up to.

I do enjoy the back and forth. Futile as some of it is.

here is a view of 

Also, we saw Solo. My wife liked it. I enjoyed seeing Clint Howard again. I didn’t hate it. But the Suicide Squad one (aka Rogue One) was more impactful. My son liked it. So 66.66% favourable rating.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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4 minutes ago, chucky said:

I don't care. She screwed up and then got fired. Bad thing is she got a lot of good let go as well.

I hope the find more work. Apart from that I generally have a curiosity of how things work. Sometimes also why people are doing bizarre stuff gets me wondering..

 

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4 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I hope the find more work. Apart from that I generally have a curiosity of how things work. Sometimes also why people are doing bizarre stuff gets me wondering..

 

I could care less about Roseanne. The remaining cast and crew, I'm hoping they find more work. Roseanne is just a loose cannon who thought she could get away with being "funny". She was very wrong. She didn't weigh in the consequences of her actions. As the science idiom says, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

Edited by chucky

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13 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I do enjoy the back and forth. Futile as some of it is.

here is a view of 

Also, we saw Solo. My wife liked it. I enjoyed seeing Clint Howard again. I didn’t hate it. But the Suicide Squad one (aka Rogue One) was more impactful. My son liked it. So 66.66% favourable rating.

Yes, I agree with Jim regarding wondering why someone would write a tweet like that. Makes no difference to me that it was Roseanne. Just like I wonder about the nature/existence of dark matter, what will be learned next through the detection of gravity waves and when will we get practical fusion reactors.

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To me there is a one solution which might work and is reasonably fair to everyone.  1. Rename the show.  2. Bring back (if she wants to come back) Rosanne as one of the Connors with no special emphasis on her (and no stupid laugh).  If she continues  her hateful garbage you drop her completely- but they would then be set up to drop her.    She doesn’t take part in any of the publicity.  She benefits however she benefits from her partial ownership (because that is life).  Let it be known that ABC has invited Roseanne back on a limited basis, and it is on her if she chooses to continue or not.  

 

 

Edited by MsGreentea
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