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1 minute ago, djsurrey said:

Reality will catch up with him and his base.

With some, maybe. Too many have blinders on and will justify everything he does or says. Just look at the polls how many republicans suddenly like Russia

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Well, anyone who watched the Helsinki thing with Trump and Putin should know now that this american president has completely and utterly capitulated before the man who put him into office. That press conference was painful to watch. An american president rambling conspiracy theories when asked to confront Putin...

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I posted the other day that Putin would play Trump like a violin. I was wrong. Putin took Trump's lunch money, slapped him about and made Trump thank him for it, in front of the entire international community.

Putin used the classic power ploy of arriving late in order to show his superiority - and timing the meeting to coincide with widely popular Russian TV chat shows. 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described the talks as "Magnificent. They were magnificent, better than super.".

Trump made no public reference to the shooting down of passenger plane MH17, annexing Crimea, invading Ukraine, cyber attacking (past and current) U.S. elections, supporting the Syrian slaughter, using radioactive material and Novichok to poison persons in a foreign country, committing domestic crimes against dissidents and journalists - nothing.

Oh well, Trump did call it "an incredible offer" when Putin suggested that Russian operatives participate in an American criminal investigation. Wait...what? WHAT?! 

German has a word for so many indescribable emotions. At the moment, "fremdschämen" fits the bill - second hand shame for someone else's actions.

Trump once said that opponents who failed to stand and applaud him (Trump) were "un-American" and "treasonous". By his own standard, what would one call Trump's complete betrayal of his own country today?

U.S. Constitution, Article 3 Section 3

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Full Trump-Putin press conference (video):
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/15/watch_live_coverage_of_helsinki_summit_as_vladimir_putin_and_trump_meet.html

Trump-Putin press conference transcript:
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576956/transcript-putin-trump-russia-helsinki-press-conference

Full Fox news interview with Putin following the summit - also known as 'Fox (yes FOX) reporter shows more backbone than the President of the United States':
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/16/putin-in-fox-news-interview-denies-having-dirt-on-trump-calls-meddling-charge-utterly-ridiculous.htm


Early Russian media reaction to the summit, as reported by the Japan Times:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/17/world/politics-diplomacy-world/moscow-victory-lap-russian-media-suggest-putin-trump-summit-step-forward-slap-u-s-press/#.W00-2dJKg5t

Edited by GivesAWhit
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9 hours ago, djsurrey said:

My understanding was that Obama was extraordinarily popular as a candidate.

Yes, he was.

But he won the nomination winning caucuses [which have far lower participation rates than primaries ] in Red states, whereas Hillary won the primaries of all the big, blue coastal states.

It was weird.

The Democrats, following the Republicans, have more front-loaded their primary process with Super Tuesday.  The problem is that Super Tuesday skews too southern.  So, if you don't win the black vote on Super Tuesday, you've got quite a hill to climb to the Democratic nomination.  This hurt Clinton and killed Sanders.  

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2 hours ago, GivesAWhit said:

I posted the other day that Putin would play Trump like a violin. I was wrong. Putin took Trump's lunch money, slapped him about and made Trump thank him for it, in front of the entire international community.

Putin used the classic power ploy of arriving late in order to show his superiority - and timing the meeting to coincide with widely popular Russian TV chat shows. 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described the talks as "Magnificent. They were magnificent, better than super.".

Trump made no public reference to the shooting down of passenger plane MH17, annexing Crimea, invading Ukraine, cyber attacking (past and current) U.S. elections, supporting the Syrian slaughter, using radioactive material and Novichok to poison persons in a foreign country, committing domestic crimes against dissidents and journalists - nothing.

Oh well, Trump did call it "an incredible offer" when Putin suggested that Russian operatives participate in an American criminal investigation. Wait...what? WHAT?! 

German has a word for so many indescribable emotions. At the moment, "fremdschämen" fits the bill - second hand shame for someone else's actions.

Trump once said that opponents who failed to stand and applaud him (Trump) were "un-American" and "treasonous". By his own standard, what would one call Trump's complete betrayal of his own country today?

U.S. Constitution, Article 3 Section 3

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Full Trump-Putin press conference (video):
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/15/watch_live_coverage_of_helsinki_summit_as_vladimir_putin_and_trump_meet.html

Trump-Putin press conference transcript:
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576956/transcript-putin-trump-russia-helsinki-press-conference

Full Fox news interview with Putin following the summit - also known as 'Fox (yes FOX) reporter shows more backbone than the President of the United States':
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/16/putin-in-fox-news-interview-denies-having-dirt-on-trump-calls-meddling-charge-utterly-ridiculous.htm


Early Russian media reaction to the summit, as reported by the Japan Times:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/17/world/politics-diplomacy-world/moscow-victory-lap-russian-media-suggest-putin-trump-summit-step-forward-slap-u-s-press/#.W00-2dJKg5t

I’m just boggled. I really want to know how this gets digested by the populace. The USA as a client state. Talk about bending the knee.

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34 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I’m just boggled. I really want to know how this gets digested by the populace. The USA as a client state. Talk about bending the knee.

Remember this is what was seen in public. God only knows how obsequious things got during the two plus hours of private "just us" time.

Putin made a statement to Russian media outlining the private meeting. One worrisome remark was that they discussed "an interesting deal regarding Ukraine"

Pardon my paranoia, but remember my country gave us Neville Chamberlain, who gave away Czechoslovakia. We all know how that turned out. ☹️

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4 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

Remember this is what was seen in public. God only knows how obsequious things got during the two plus hours of private "just us" time.

Putin made a statement to Russian media outlining the private meeting. One worrisome remark was that they discussed "an interesting deal regarding Ukraine"

Pardon my paranoia, but remember my country gave us Neville Chamberlain, who gave away Czechoslovakia. We all know how that turned out. ☹️

People should hope for the best and plan for the worst.  But I do want to hear from his supporters on how this is a good thing.

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Just now, Nogravitasatall said:

People should hope for the best and plan for the worst.  But I do want to hear from his supporters on how this is a good thing.

So do I want to hear their views, very much. If patriotism is the coin of the realm, how on earth can this go over well?

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Since Trump rages in the White House, the grotesque has become everyday life and the absurd has become the official US government policy. Extremists rule, minorities suffer, the world order shakes, and apart from Trump and his henchmen, Russia and China laugh at most.
The laughter gets stuck in everyone else's throat.
I haven't been ashamed of myself (yes, "fremdgeschämt“) for a long time. How long can the Americans stand this personalized shame?

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2 hours ago, GivesAWhit said:

Remember this is what was seen in public. God only knows how obsequious things got during the two plus hours of private "just us" time.

I have imagined...

 

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4 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Yes, he was.

But he won the nomination winning caucuses [which have far lower participation rates than primaries ] in Red states, whereas Hillary won the primaries of all the big, blue coastal states.

His campaign also managed what no other campaign managed to do before. Turn out young voters, especially in caucuses

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3 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

His campaign also managed what no other campaign managed to do before. Turn out young voters, especially in caucuses

The demographics of caucuses are younger than those who participate in primaries.  That's the case everywhere. People who are older, have children, or do not want to go out at night etc. are less likely to participate in caucuses.  Women, in particular, are less likely than men to be comfortable with the public proclamation of whom they're voting for and the ensuing debates than are men.  So, caucuses are seen as discounting or distorting the voting population that actually shows up to vote in November:  women.  Especially older women.

But it IS true he energized young people.  Nevertheless, the number of those who actually voted that November, while better than previous years at near 50%, was part of a three year climb from the 1996 election.  Overall, three million more folks under 30 turned out in November, which is great.  That number fell again in 2012.  Young people need to vote!!!  It's their future!

Capt. Hilts, pollster, who supports lowering the voting age to 16.

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2 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Young people need to vote!!!  It's their future!

That's true. I always find it hypocritical when people who didn't go voting then complain about the administration or congress or whatever result that came because they didn't go vote.

Then again, the voting process in America is crap, which is not helped by republicans trying to make it even harder in areas where Democrats usually perform better.

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2 minutes ago, son-goku5 said:

That's true. I always find it hypocritical when people who didn't go voting then complain about the administration or congress or whatever result that came because they didn't go vote.

Then again, the voting process in America is crap, which is not helped by republicans trying to make it even harder in areas where Democrats usually perform better.

Indeed.  As someone who suffered through Virginia's absentee voting process for years, YES!

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12 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

....Young people need to vote!!!  It's their future!

Capt. Hilts, pollster, who supports lowering the voting age to 16.

Hm, I would be careful with that wish. As much as I'd like to agree with you, perhaps one should first improve the general education (btw. not only in the US). 

I want to believe this is all a joke, but...?

“He died doing what I love.”  Wow!

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5 minutes ago, veejay said:

Hm, I would be careful with that wish. As much as I'd like to agree with you, perhaps one should first improve the general education (btw. not only in the US).

I'm shocked whenever polls come out where pollsters asked questions that anyone with middle school knowledge about civics or history should be able to answer correctly. Just for a few examples:

- they did a survey where 37 percent of those asked can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;

- another where only 26 percent can name all three branches of government (hello? Almost three quarters of those asked can't name the three branches of government????)

- in another poll, somewhere around 20 percent of people asked didn't know what country the US declared its independence from in 1776. Some of the answers were Germany, France and even Japan (nevermind the fact that the first American ever to visit Japan was John Kendrick in 1791 and he didn't interact with a Japanese)

- 30% don't know (or didn't when the poll took place) the year in which the terror attacks on 9/11 happened. Even more shocking, 5% didn't know the day and month, even though they are pretty clear denoted in the term 9/11

-29% of Americans asked couldn't find the pacific ocean on the world map (I know, not history or civics but still...)

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2 hours ago, veejay said:

I want to believe this is all a joke, but...?

It is sarcasm. But yes the reality is a bit nuts too.

2 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

29% of Americans asked couldn't find the pacific ocean on the world map (I know, not history or civics but still...)

I find that hard to believe.

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20 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I find that hard to believe.

There was a time I found it hard to believe that anyone would vote for a buffoon like Trump and yet here we are...

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57 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

It is sarcasm. But yes the reality is a bit nuts too.

I find that hard to believe.

Yeah, I know. But I haven't laughed about it for a long time. "Borat" can't help me there either.
Donald Trump hunted down the humor. As a presidential candidate, he still amused me with his bold lies, his clumsy xenophobia, his absurd demands.
So absurd that laughter was the only resistance, but that’s gone now.

All these political comedy/cabaret shows were caught up with the bizarre reality. We are now in a new reality show for sure.
But don’t worry, these all are Fake News.

 

Edited by veejay
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1 hour ago, veejay said:

Yeah, I know. But I haven't laughed about it for a long time. "Borat" can't help me there either.
Donald Trump hunted down the humor. As a presidential candidate, he still amused me with his bold lies, his clumsy xenophobia, his absurd demands.
So absurd that laughter was the only resistance, but that’s gone now.

All these political comedy/cabaret shows were caught up with the bizarre reality. We are now in a new reality show for sure.
But don’t worry, these all are Fake News.

 

The inmates are truly running the asylum.

I don't think he'll make it through the first term.  I wish John McCain were well enough to continue to be the conscience of the Republicans. He blasted the nutjob for giving  one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory.  But he should have said ever, not in memory.

 

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2 hours ago, April said:

There was a time I found it hard to believe that anyone would vote for a buffoon like Trump and yet here we are...

Yeah, it has certainly changed my views who is deemed to be electable these days.  'Populism' is on the rise globally.

Edited by Jonny
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5 hours ago, veejay said:

Hm, I would be careful with that wish. As much as I'd like to agree with you, perhaps one should first improve the general education (btw. not only in the US). 

I want to believe this is all a joke, but...?

“He died doing what I love.”  Wow!

Just to clarify, there is obviously no gun training for children in Israel! 😅 You're only trained in the army, when you're 18 or over. Also, civillians are not given permission to own guns as easily as they are in USA. The only ones who get permission are those in security positions. 

Also, his R is (I think purposefully) overemphasized, but this is of course muchhh better than when a non-Hebrew speaking American tries to imitate an Israeli accident, that's just terrible (e.g., Adam Sandler, the horror).  

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On 7/16/2018 at 1:38 PM, djsurrey said:

My understanding was that Obama was extraordinarily popular as a candidate.

Oh, he was. He was elected to the senate with 81% of the vote and I said then he'd probably be the first black president but I didn't think it would be so soon.

On 7/16/2018 at 1:44 PM, son-goku5 said:

With some, maybe. Too many have blinders on and will justify everything he does or says. Just look at the polls how many republicans suddenly like Russia

Very true. Some will never change their minds.

10 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

His campaign also managed what no other campaign managed to do before. Turn out young voters, especially in caucuses

Bernie Sanders turned out young voters too, who were then too disillusioned with politics to vote in November. I doubt if they will make that same mistake twice.

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7 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

I'm shocked whenever polls come out where pollsters asked questions that anyone with middle school knowledge about civics or history should be able to answer correctly. Just for a few examples:

- they did a survey where 37 percent of those asked can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;

- another where only 26 percent can name all three branches of government (hello? Almost three quarters of those asked can't name the three branches of government????)

- in another poll, somewhere around 20 percent of people asked didn't know what country the US declared its independence from in 1776. Some of the answers were Germany, France and even Japan (nevermind the fact that the first American ever to visit Japan was John Kendrick in 1791 and he didn't interact with a Japanese)

- 30% don't know (or didn't when the poll took place) the year in which the terror attacks on 9/11 happened. Even more shocking, 5% didn't know the day and month, even though they are pretty clear denoted in the term 9/11

-29% of Americans asked couldn't find the pacific ocean on the world map (I know, not history or civics but still...)

Surely this must be a joke.

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