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Chit Chat: Season 11

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1 minute ago, Swedish Chef said:

Fascinating to say the least.

I'd choose other words. Like baffling. Scary. Laughable.

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2 hours ago, Swedish Chef said:

Surely this must be a joke.

Though TBBT is a sitcom and trades on the cliché of nerds vs. "normal" people, there is an underlying truth. In certain countries, education, eloquence, being knowledgeable in general is viewed with suspicion and derision.

Despite access to public education, current affairs and free libraries, there is an open, active hostility towards thoughtful people who make use of these opportunities, cherish life-long learning and make the effort to fully understand domestic and global issues. They are seen as abnormal, stuck-up members of an "elite". 

The result is an appalling ignorance in the general population, an unwillingness by most to remedy the situation. and a stunning vulnerability to being hoodwinked.

These are of course my own personal views, which some have declared "15th century". 😄

Edited by GivesAWhit
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3 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

Though TBBT is a sitcom and trades on the cliché of nerds vs. "normal" people, there is an underlying truth. In certain countries, education, eloquence, being knowledgeable in general is viewed with suspicion and derision.

Despite access to public education, current affairs and free libraries, there is an open, active hostility towards thoughtful people who make use of these opportunities, cherish life-long learning and make the effort to fully understand domestic and global issues. They are seen as abnormal, stuck-up members of an "elite". 

The result is an appalling ignorance in the general population, an unwillingness by most to remedy the situation. and a stunning vulnerability to being hoodwinked.

These are of course my own personal views, which some have declared "15th century". 😄

 

DiTHurMWAAAywqW.jpg

This was hilarious, thanks @GivesAWhit

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1 minute ago, Swedish Chef said:

This was hilarious, thanks @GivesAWhit

I've moved the cartoon to this post, because it is more pertinent and I wanted to link to the entire site it came from.

This site is a collection of world reaction to Helsinki 2018. This cartoon is just a sample, and one of the less demeaning ones.

DiTHurMWAAAywqW.jpg.8abc9aff7982e4f5648431b88e87c632.jpg

I spoke today to a retired American Air Force colonel who voted for Trump and whose father and grandfather both died in combat. He was very upset that he grew up without them and served himself, only to see "my country sold so cheaply on the open market".

chucky, I believe you served 20 years in the U.S. Navy? And ajond, you are a committed Trump supporter. What would you say to this veteran of your armed forces? What are your thoughts on this dazzling blow to American world prestige?

Ooops, breaking news - Trump has just made a "hostage tape" trying in the most preposterous way to do damage control. I'll link to an unedited video of his remarks when I find one.

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I feel it is time for one little question after Trump's meeting with Putin:

Has an American president talked to an Russian/Soviet leader in those words ever before.

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30 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

I feel it is time for one little question after Trump's meeting with Putin:

Has an American president talked to an Russian/Soviet leader in those words ever before.

I've searched a number of sources on both sides and every one said this was a unique, unprecedented performance by an American president with regard to a Russian/Soviet leader.

There are also calls for the translator of the private meeting to be debriefed. 

ETA: Tony Blair never completely escaped the label of Bush's Poodle, and he wasn't nearly as subservient as Trump is to Putin. And yes, there are already headlines naming Trump "Putin's Poodle".

Edited by GivesAWhit
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Full length video of Trump's Remarks on the Helsinki Summit (via C-SPAN).

In an hilarious twist of fate, at the 2:00 mark, the lights briefly go out just as Trump is expressing his confidence in his own intelligence community. ROFL, even the house lights don't buy this hogwash. 🤣

Edited by GivesAWhit
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2 hours ago, Swedish Chef said:

I feel it is time for one little question after Trump's meeting with Putin:

Has an American president talked to an Russian/Soviet leader in those words ever before.

Go find the bit in this clip where he says he meant to say wouldn’t not would. And then reflect that this person has been bestowed with the personal and irrevocable power to destroy human civilisation.

If only all this was fake news.

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15 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Go find the bit in this clip where he says he meant to say wouldn’t not would. And then reflect that this person has been bestowed with the personal and irrevocable power to destroy human civilisation.

If only all this was fake news.

It would be funny if it were not so terrifying. Do we go up in a mushroom cloud when this quinquin impulsively hits the button in a fit of pique or do we slowly succumb to his titanic ignorance about everything of importance, e.g. climate change. 

I would call his response an insult to one's intelligence, but those who actually believe this would/wouldn't farce can't possibly have any intelligence.

Edited by GivesAWhit
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43 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

It would be funny if it were not so terrifying. Do we go up in a mushroom cloud when this quinquin impulsively hits the button in a fit of pique or do we slowly succumb to his titanic ignorance about everything of importance, e.g. climate change. 

I would call his response an insult to one's intelligence, but those who actually believe this would/wouldn't farce can't possibly have any intelligence.

They want to believe, and belief doesn’t require evidence or intelligence. Hucksters like Trump know that. The marks want to be conned.

The only solution is for the USA not to give Republicans enough votes to form government. The US majority is not Trumpist. 

One downside of a complete Democrat win might be universal healthcare. And maybe more sensible moves towards global environmental sustainability. And perhaps a redress of income inequality. Maybe national laws to address the stupid tragedy of death by firearm. All terrible things compared to ceding the US presidency to the geo-political rival, I know. But hey, omelettes and eggs.

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50 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

The only solution is for the USA not to give Republicans enough votes to form government. The US majority is not Trumpist. 

One downside of a complete Democrat win might be universal healthcare. And maybe more sensible moves towards global environmental sustainability. And perhaps a redress of income inequality. Maybe national laws to address the stupid tragedy of death by firearm. All terrible things compared to ceding the US presidency to the geo-political rival, I know. But hey, omelettes and eggs.

Die Zimtzicke made some excellent points in her post on the elections. I was frankly surprised that the best America had to offer was either Trump or Hillary Clinton. What a Hobson's Choice!

Though they promote several quite sensible positions, the Democrats (or "the left" or Labour or Socialists etc., in other countries) are not the magic bullet either. What's wanting are candidates who promote the interests of their own countries within the context that this is a small planet which we must share, because there is NO where else for us to go.

It's incredible, but geopolitics have come down to choosing the least dangerous candidate! 

50 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

They want to believe, and belief doesn’t require evidence or intelligence. Hucksters like Trump know that. The marks want to be conned.

This is the most disconcerting part of all. Believers will cling to their creed in the face of any evidence to the contrary. And yes indeed the snake oil salesmen know exactly what the discontented and disaffected want to hear.

I'm once again going to recommend the five minute "Face In The Crowd" film clip I posted the other day. The Lonesome Rhodes character revels in the fact that his followers are hungry for answers and easily convinced of anything. He gleefully manipulates them using sales tactics suitable for selling cars or washing powder. He declares that his power over them has no limits.

It really is chilling how spot on this 1957 film is. In the end, Lonesome Rhodes' destruction is his own doing, a direct result of his true opinions of his followers being exposed. If only life would imitate art; Trump cares not a fig for his loyal supporters, be it voters or those in his innermost circle. Anyone might be thrown to the wolves, so long as it isn't Donald J. Trump.

I wonder if that is what it would take for them to see through this charlatan, or could reason possibly prevail before ruin.

Edited by GivesAWhit
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1 hour ago, GivesAWhit said:

Though they promote several quite sensible positions, the Democrats (or "the left" or Labour or Socialists etc., in other countries) are not the magic bullet either. What's wanting are candidates who promote the interests of their own countries within the context that this is a small planet which we must share, because there is NO where else for us to go.

Never mind the equivalences, false or otherwise. Hillary would have been at least normally competent and only normally suspect.

Trump told everyone he was a crook when he lied about not revealing his tax returns because of audits. Trump told everyone he was a business failure with his multiple bankruptcies. Trump told everyone he was in cahoots with the Russian oligarchs when he sold property to them in what were patently money laundering deals. Trump told everyone he was a sexual predator when he said “grab ‘em by the pussy”. Trump told everyone he was a con artist when he settled the Trump University lawsuit.

Willing fools chose not to believe him. Gormless, feckless fellow travellers and cynical panderers rode into office on his coat tails.

And now he has, at Helsinki, told the world he is in Putin’s pocket.

Willing fools again will choose not to believe him. It will take an election to remove him  - and elections should also remove those gormless, feckless, fellow travellers and cynical panderers who support him while he is in office. Hopefully serious people will pay attention and vote.

What are the chances though. Maybe people want the show more than good governance.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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1 minute ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Never mind the equivalences, false or otherwise. Hillary would have been at least normally competent and only normally suspect.

Trump told everyone he was a crook when he lied about not revealing his tax returns because of audits. Trump told everyone he was a business failure with his multiple bankruptcies. Trump told everyone he was in cahoots with the Russian oligarchs when he sold property to them in what were patently money laundering deals. Trump told everyone he was a sexual predator when he said “grab ‘em by the pussy”. Trump told everyone he was a con artist when he settled the Trump University lawsuit.

Wiling fools chose not to believe him. Gormless, feckless fellow travellers and cynical panderers road into office on his coat tails.

And now he has, at Helsinki, told the world he is in Putin’s pocket.

Willing fools again will choose not to believe him. It will take an election to remove him  - and elections should also remove those gormless, feckless, fellow travellers and cynical panderers who support him while he is in office. Hopefully serious people will pay attention and vote.

What are the chances though. Maybe people want the show more than good governance.

A thousand likes for this post. Clinton could not in our wildest dreams have done as much damage as Trump and his minions. 

ITA, there was no mystery about who he was and what he stands for. Voters apparently wanted a reality show government. You can see it in how they react at his rallies. They love the carnival atmosphere, they cheer the barker selling his clearly specious wares, they are goaded into  pummeling the press or the "other" or anyone who points out that the emperor has no clothes.

The short term economic gains are the shiny objects which distract them from the economic calamity that a crushing deficit will be.

It's bread and circuses all over again. 

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My 83 year old mother likes Trump but refuses to watch the news. I have been talking to her trying to understand how she could think the way she does and at the same time I try to avoid being insulting and be respectful. It appears that for her the world has changed too much and she does not like it. I have tried to tell her that Trump will only break stuff. He has no workable solutions. She clings to the idea that he is going to fix things. Kind of like clinging to a weekly lottery ticket as she used to do.

There is just no going back to the world of her youth. It is gone.

There is more to it. She still thinks that Trump is exposing corruption rather than being the corruption. She bought into the propaganda and nothing will shake it. 

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Above I saw more than 10 minutes of constant shaking heads trying to explain the term "embarrassing".
How many lies does it take for an ordinary person to come to the conclusion, "Hey, you idiot belong in a loony bin immediately."?
How many more clothes does a naked fool have to take off to get burned as President?
I'm just stunned.

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44 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

My 83 year old mother likes Trump but refuses to watch the news. I have been talking to her trying to understand how she could think the way she does and at the same time I try to avoid being insulting and be respectful. It appears that for her the world has changed too much and she does not like it. I have tried to tell her that Trump will only break stuff. He has no workable solutions. She clings to the idea that he is going to fix things. Kind of like clinging to a weekly lottery ticket as she used to do.

There is just no going back to the world of her youth. It is gone.

There is more to it. She still thinks that Trump is exposing corruption rather than being the corruption. She bought into the propaganda and nothing will shake it. 

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself."

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7 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

One downside of a complete Democrat win might be universal healthcare. And maybe more sensible moves towards global environmental sustainability. And perhaps a redress of income inequality. Maybe national laws to address the stupid tragedy of death by firearm. All terrible things compared to ceding the US presidency to the geo-political rival, I know. But hey, omelettes and eggs.

Only if they get veto-proof majorities in both houses. Otherwise, the republicans will either filibuster in the Senate or Trump will veto. Republicans don't believe that poor people should be able to afford healthcare. They're not rich, so they should die, I guess. And they have no problem with the world becoming an unlivable hellhole, as long as corporate profits remain high. And don't forget, a large part of the republicans are owned by the NRA.

6 hours ago, GivesAWhit said:

Die Zimtzicke made some excellent points in her post on the elections. I was frankly surprised that the best America had to offer was either Trump or Hillary Clinton. What a Hobson's Choice!

Once again, why is Hillary such a bad choice? Is there something anyone has proven? There have been dozens of investigations against her and not a single one has come up with something criminal.

 

5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Willing fools chose not to believe him. Gormless, feckless fellow travellers and cynical panderers rode into office on his coat tails.

Willing fools again will choose not to believe him.

Aren't willing fools believing him?

57 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

My 83 year old mother likes Trump but refuses to watch the news.

You might wanna try another approach. Tell her how much of an idiot she is since she apparently refuses to listen to anything that might cast him in a bad light.

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1 hour ago, son-goku5 said:

Only if they get veto-proof majorities in both houses. Otherwise, the republicans will either filibuster in the Senate or Trump will veto...

That’s what I said, a complete win. The Republicans have demonstrated they don’t want to govern. Give them what they want. Take them out of government. For a cycle. As a reward for their patriotic acts.

(I suspect this is doable if the whole electorate turns out)

1 hour ago, son-goku5 said:

 Aren't willing fools believing him?

They are listening to his deceptions, they are not believing his obvious truths. For example, “I believe it was the Russians... it could have been anybody”. Said in the same breath, pretty much.

That sentence, in that press conference, where he couldn’t even read the script in front of him properly, tells the viewer what he thinks he has to say, then tells them what he actually wants them to believe. He wants them not to believe the truth. And the willing choose to believe the deception, out of the two. They aren’t listening the whole story he is telling.

:) 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
Hyperbole qualified
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I just watched some of the Helsinki press conference again and one thing stuck out at me. When Putin and Trump came out to the podiums, look at their body language. Putin is smiling like the proverbial cat that ate the canary while Trump looks like a dog that just got his ass whipped for peeing on the carpet.

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2 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

I just watched some of the Helsinki press conference again and one thing stuck out at me. When Putin and Trump came out to the podiums, look at their body language. Putin is smiling like the proverbial cat that ate the canary while Trump looks like a dog that just got his ass whipped for peeing on the carpet.

That’s because possibly Putin has a copy of the kompromat on his phone and had just replayed it to the president of the United States. The translator may not have even seen that happen. There is no transparency around the meeting and no readout. That alone should give Republicans and their supporters the willies. They don’t know what they are defending. If there is a “there” there they are cactus. And if it exists, it will come out, eventually. If it doesn’t exist then Trump is still an idiot for creating the space for suspicion.

edit: you know, I still want to hear a supporter stick up for him with a reasoned argument, and no whataboutisms. I could be uninformed. I try watching Fox online but they are stuck in 2015 and seem irrelevant to today. Trump is the president, not Clinton or Obama.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

That’s because possibly Putin has a copy of the kompromat on his phone and had just replayed it to the president of the United States. The translator may not have even seen that happen. There is no transparency around the meeting and no readout. That alone should give Republicans and their supporters the willies. They don’t know what they are defending. If there is a “there” there they are cactus. And if it exists, it will come out, eventually. If it doesn’t exist then Trump is still an idiot for creating the space for suspicion.

As so many others have already put it: "If you're innocent, why are you acting so guilty?"

There's only three things I  can see Putin having over Trump that would be causing the latter to behave like he does (apart from the possibility that the weakling in the oval office sees himself as a strongman himself and thinks that they all like him too. Or, as George Will put it, "Trump has a weak man’s banal fascination with strong men whose disdain for him is evidently unimaginable to him".

1.) Putin has proof that Trump knew about the collusion of his campaign with Russia or that Trump was an active part in it

2.) Putin has proof that Trump is financially beholden to Russia

3.) Putin has proof that Trump committed financial crimes with Russia, like money laundering

If there's the so-called pee tape, I don't see it as blackmail material, unless Trump said something incriminating on it. Otherwise, it would be Trump sitting on a chair watching two russian prostitutes pee on the bed that Barack and Michelle Obama slept in during their last visit to russia. That would be embarrassing but nothing criminal. Trump admitted to being a sexual assaulter on tape and he didn't lose votes (although that story died quickly because wikileaks released their batch of Clinton emails one hour after the access hollywood tape came out and the majority of the media snapped to that story like loyal dogs)

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5 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Once again, why is Hillary such a bad choice? Is there something anyone has proven? There have been dozens of investigations against her and not a single one has come up with something criminal.

She just had too much baggage to win is what I said. People wanted something different which is why Sanders almost got the nomination on the one side and why Trump did on the other. Clinton was seen as the same old same old and too many people on both sides were irritated by the idea of Bill Clinton being around again. I do not think she did anything criminal. Many politicians lose e-mails and I wish people would drop the Benghazi crap. Because it involves military personnel, embassy security (which had its budget reduced by the Republicans) is a matter handled by the defense dept. not the state dept.  Why that is so hard to grasp I can't comprehend. And the ambassador was advised at one point to leave and would not do so.

Are we going to move to the season twelve chit chat thread at any point, by the way? it's open now.

hillary.jpg

4 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

That’s what I said, a complete win. The Republicans have demonstrated they don’t want to govern. Give them what they want. Take them out of government. For a cycle. As a reward for their patriotic acts.

Sitting presidents usually lose house seats at the midterm. Whether he loses enough is anyone's guess at this point. In some races the Dems have not been running strong candidates.

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There is a gubernatorial candidate in my state who proudly states in his commercial that he's "supported by the Big Guy himself".  Considering how much the Idiot in Chief is dividing the GOP, I don't know if I'd use that in a campaign commercial.

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