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Chit Chat: Season 11

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51 minutes ago, Carm6773 said:

There is a gubernatorial candidate in my state who proudly states in his commercial that he's "supported by the Big Guy himself".  Considering how much the Idiot in Chief is dividing the GOP, I don't know if I'd use that in a campaign commercial.

Maybe he'll soon say that "The Big Guy" is someone else ^^

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6 minutes ago, son-goku5 said:

Maybe he'll soon say that "The Big Guy" is someone else ^^

Change the "he is supported" to "he isn't supported"?

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2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

She just had too much baggage to win is what I said. People wanted something different which is why Sanders almost got the nomination on the one side and why Trump did on the other. Clinton was seen as the same old same old and too many people on both sides were irritated by the idea of Bill Clinton being around again.

Trump had more baggage than Clinton, more baggage than any politican in recent past, even though his comes more from his private life than public.

And Bill Clinton's approval rating is in the high 60s, so more people like him than not.

And to be fair, Sanders wasn't really close to the nomination. Yes, he had a lot of young people who liked what he was promising but remember, he mostly won caucuses while Hillary won the majority of the regular primaries. That proves that Sanders' voting base was more active, willing to endure the caucus stress. And he had baggage as well, only his was not so well known because the press concentrated on two certain other candidates.

8 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Change the "he is supported" to "he isn't supported"?

ūü§£

Edited by son-goku5
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12 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

You might wanna try another approach. Tell her how much of an idiot she is since she apparently refuses to listen to anything that might cast him in a bad light.

I'd never do that on purpose. It would be morally repugnant (1 Corinthians 13).

There may have been occasion that I did it inadvertently. 

Edited by djsurrey
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2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I'd never do that on purpose. It would be morally repugnant (1 Corinthians 13).

There may have been occasion that I did it inadvertently. 

Kids today. Watcha gunna do. :) 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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9 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Kids today. Watcha gunna do.

I think I was uncharacteristically pissed off in the days following the election. On the one hand I had a daughter, who had been crying over the future and who I had tried to console. On the other hand I had a mother who was seemingly gleeful and was sputtering what I thought to be nonsense. Family get togethers can be hard to navigate. Especially for a guy like me.

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1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

I think I was uncharacteristically pissed off in the days following the election. On the one hand I had a daughter, who had been crying over the future and who I had tried to console. On the other hand I had a mother who was seemingly gleeful and was sputtering what I thought to be nonsense. Family get togethers can be hard to navigate. Especially for a guy like me.

I feel for you. 

I still want to know what is the affirmative case for Trump.  Can you get your mum to type one up? :) 

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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I feel for you. 

I still want to know what is the affirmative case for Trump.  Can you get your mum to type one up? :) 

No.

She would not. I believe it is all emotion and not really connected to current events but personal stuff from bygone days.

  • She was born in 1934 in rural Saskatchewan. It was during the great depression and the family was as poor as dirt. Her first house was a sod shack without running water.

If she did I'd not share it.

It kind of begs the question as to what is going on in younger people who support him.

Edited by djsurrey
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32 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

No.

She would not. I believe it is all emotion and not really connected to current events but personal stuff from bygone days.

  • She was born in 1934 in rural Saskatchewan. It was during the great depression and the family was as poor as dirt. Her first house was a sod shack without running water.

If she did I'd not share it.

It kind of begs the question as to what is going on in younger people who support him.

I was kidding. Fair enough. Did not mean to offend.

My mum was a Depression baby too. 1925 in rural NSW. They had 40 acres of a returned soldiers grant, I believe. And 6 kids.¬†But she now has no idea about the world. Most times now she doesn‚Äôt even recognise me. So at it‚Äôs nice¬†you get a discussion. I get ‚Äúthanks for coming, thanks for going‚ÄĚ. When she‚Äôs polite. ūüėÄ

Re younger people; I just don’t understand how anyone walks past all the lies.

 

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18 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Re younger people; I just don’t understand how anyone walks past all the lies.

Yes. You have nailed it. The lies. They flow out like verbal diarrhea. OMG.

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5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Re younger people; I just don’t understand how anyone walks past all the lies.

Perhaps there is insight here:

Quote

In an affidavit filed with the court, FBI Special Agent Kevin Helson outlined a two-year alleged effort by Butina to penetrate and influence the U.S. political system for Russia’s benefit by building ties to the American conservative movement.
Butina’s efforts in the United States came as a number of Republicans began rethinking the party’s traditional hostility to Russia, forming new bonds with Putin’s government around conservative social views on religion and same-sex marriage. That shift culminated with the November 2016 election of Trump, who had argued throughout his campaign that the United States should seek warmer relations with Russia.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maria-butina-russian-gun-rights-advocate-charged-in-us-with-acting-as-russian-federation-agent/2018/07/16/d1d4832a-8929-11e8-85ae-511bc1146b0b_story.html?utm_term=.d1dfd1cd09f6

I have seen it unfortunately. When people get angry about a precieved slight to some belief they get blinders on and ignore facts not central to their belief that appears under attack.

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11 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I think I was uncharacteristically pissed off in the days following the election. On the one hand I had a daughter, who had been crying over the future and who I had tried to console. On the other hand I had a mother who was seemingly gleeful and was sputtering what I thought to be nonsense. Family get togethers can be hard to navigate. Especially for a guy like me.

Right there with you.  I was up all night texting with my niece who was inconsolable.

9 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I feel for you. 

I still want to know what is the affirmative case for Trump.  Can you get your mum to type one up? :) 

Hubby can't stand Trump, but voted for him mainly because of Obamacare.    

DISCLAIMER**Not trying to get into a debate, this is our situation**DISCLAIMER

The Obamacare situation sucks if you're an independent contractor (he's a truck driver) with a gainfully employed spouse (I'm a middle school counselor).  Obamacare looks at household income to quote insurance prices.  I looked into adding him onto my insurance, but that would cost more per month than the Obamacare quotes.

Again, not trying to get into a debate, just citing our situation.

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1 hour ago, Carm6773 said:

The Obamacare situation sucks if you're an independent contractor (he's a truck driver) with a gainfully employed spouse (I'm a middle school counselor).  Obamacare looks at household income to quote insurance prices.  I looked into adding him onto my insurance, but that would cost more per month than the Obamacare quotes.

Ok, I don't understand that. You paid a certain premium for your health insurance but when trying to add your husband to it, you say you have to pay more? Well, isn't that normal then? Insurance for two people is usually more expensive than for one...

Or do I misunderstand your situation completely now?

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20 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Trump had more baggage than Clinton, more baggage than any politican in recent past, even though his comes more from his private life than public.

And Bill Clinton's approval rating is in the high 60s, so more people like him than not. ÔĽŅ

And to be fair, Sanders wasn't really close to the nomination. Yes, he had a lot of young people who liked what he was promising but remember, he mostly won caucuses while Hillary won the majority of the regular primaries. That proves that Sanders' voting base was more active, willing to endure the caucus stress. And he had baggage as well, only his was not so well known because the press concentrated on two certain other candidates.

Yes, they all had baggage. But the people who voted for Trump didn't care about his personal life and the people who approved of Bill Clinton probably didn't get out and vote for her because of him, while the people who dislike him did.  I totally agree Sander's base was more active, however when their activism came to naught, most of them probably stayed home. Actually probably close to  half the people eligible to vote did not. That has to change

 

10 hours ago, djsurrey said:

It kind of begs the question as to what is going on in younger people who support him.

I know one young woman in her 20's that does but her father is extremely wealthy and he has convinced her that Trump is doing wonderful things for them and that's all that matters. She is rather spoiled and nothing matters to her except what she gets and has.

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13 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I totally agree Sander's base was more active, however when their activism came to naught, most of them probably stayed home.

Also known as the whiny little bitches¬†ūüėā¬† I always found these people to be idiots. Because you didn't get the candidate you wanted, you didn't go and vote for the candidate who would have given you most of what you wanted which led to you getting a President and a party in power that does everything it can to make your life more miserable.

Great idea...

But this time could be cathartic. Maybe now enough people realize that republicans simply don't care about them, no matter what they promise, and stop voting for these people.

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2 hours ago, Carm6773 said:

Right there with you.  I was up all night texting with my niece who was inconsolable.

Hubby can't stand Trump, but voted for him mainly because of Obamacare.    

DISCLAIMER**Not trying to get into a debate, this is our situation**DISCLAIMER

The Obamacare situation sucks if you're an independent contractor (he's a truck driver) with a gainfully employed spouse (I'm a middle school counselor).  Obamacare looks at household income to quote insurance prices.  I looked into adding him onto my insurance, but that would cost more per month than the Obamacare quotes.

Again, not trying to get into a debate, just citing our situation.

And have the Trump and Republican alterations to the ACA helped your situation, left it the same or improved it?  Trump made some big promises.

(I do find the US system unfathomable. The premise of Breaking Bad confounded me).

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8 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Also known as the whiny little bitches¬†ūüėā¬† I always found these people to be idiots. Because you didn't get the candidate you wanted, you didn't go and vote for the candidate who would have given you most of what you wanted which led to you getting a President and a party in power that does everything it can to make your life more miserable.

Many people did not vote...not just some of Sander's young fans.

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9 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Ok, I don't understand that. You paid a certain premium for your health insurance but when trying to add your husband to it, you say you have to pay more? Well, isn't that normal then? Insurance for two people is usually more expensive than for one...

Or do I misunderstand your situation completely now?

It would have cost more per month to add him than the Obamacare insurance quotes, which weren't cheap because they took into account household income rather than just his (we try to keep our finances as separate as possible).  The cost to add him to my insurance was 4X my cost.

 

7 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

And have the Trump and Republican alterations to the ACA helped your situation, left it the same or improved it?  Trump made some big promises.

(I do find the US system unfathomable. The premise of Breaking Bad confounded me).

Not any better, but he did manage to find insurance cheaper than what my plan and Obamacare offered.  There are plenty of things wrong with Education in America, but that's another discussion for another time.

 

Like I said, I don't want to debate about this.  Just wanted to chime in and say I understand families that are divided politically.

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1 hour ago, Carm6773 said:

It would have cost more per month to add him than the Obamacare insurance quotes, which weren't cheap because they took into account household income rather than just his (we try to keep our finances as separate as possible).  The cost to add him to my insurance was 4X my cost.

Not any better, but he did manage to find insurance cheaper than what my plan and Obamacare offered.  There are plenty of things wrong with Education in America, but that's another discussion for another time.

Like I said, I don't want to debate about this.  Just wanted to chime in and say I understand families that are divided politically.

It’s great that you responded. Thank you. 

In passing, with regard to education, I fell over when I discovered U.S. school teachers don’t get paid (if this is true) over school holidays. Even with our relatively small economy we believe we can afford to pay educators continuously. We might bitch about it, but I think we believe it’s fair enough. It’s a profession. I suspect there was was a time in the agrarian past that it made sense to release the workforce for the harvest, but, since farm mechanisation and industrialisation, I believe things have moved on.

With regard to healthcare, my understanding is that the ACA was modelled on a conservative market based healthcare solution, similar to Romneycare. But politics intervened. If the opposition hadn’t put so many sticks in the wheels the  consumer would have been much better off. And the situation would have improved over time, not degraded. It was a big change. It’s unfortunate it’s going to be such a prolonged process. I think it will get somewhere better eventually, but who knows when. It’s painful to watch.

15 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Perhaps there is insight here:

I have seen it unfortunately. When people get angry about a precieved slight to some belief they get blinders on and ignore facts not central to their belief that appears under attack.

I read that Putin and the deep right both hate gays. Common cause - and the red sparrow  lady/NRA affair was an attempt to find a further common cause with between the two. Because Putin is sooo interested in arming his people so they can form militias against repression. [/s.]  But grab people in the guts and they don’t use their brains.

I further read somewhere that the 300 years of continental disruption taught Europe that tolerance is not a virtue but a necessity to survive. I thought that was interesting. As you said earlier, we have just the one rock to stand on.

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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

In passing, with regard to education, I fell over when I discovered U.S. school teachers don’t get paid (if this is true) over school holidays. Even with our relatively small economy we believe we can afford to pay educators continuously. 

In our county, teachers negotiate their yearly salary.    To make the math easy, lets say it's $36,000 a year (that's somewhat above the average).  Normally they would get  $4,000 a month, for the nine months of the school year.  However, they can choose to receive $3,000 a month, for 12 months.  It's a decision each teacher has to make.   Other areas may not allow this, but it is a option here.   

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2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

In our county, teachers negotiate their yearly salary.    To make the math easy, lets say it's $36,000 a year (that's somewhat above the average).  Normally they would get  $4,000 a month, for the nine months of the school year.  However, they can choose to receive $3,000 a month, for 12 months.  It's a decision each teacher has to make.   Other areas may not allow this, but it is a option here.   

So they don’t  need summer jobs? It’s gravy? I had the impression a summer job was often a requisite.

(so much I don‚Äôt know - ¬†books could be written on the topics¬†of my ignorance¬†ūüėÄ)

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Well, if they choose they can get their pay for the whole year.  Whether it's enough to get through without a summer job is going to depend on the person.  As I said, the figure I used is a bit above the average salary.  New teachers make a lot less.  There is one teacher I know who spends a lot of the time throughout the school year, directing various plays in area theatre's.  And then directs plays during the summer.  Others will find a summer job, even if they are getting the money for all twelve months.  Overall, most work at various summer jobs  (teaching summer school for example) just to have the extra income.  

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17 minutes ago, Tensor said:

In our county, teachers negotiate their yearly salary.    To make the math easy, lets say it's $36,000 a year (that's somewhat above the average).  Normally they would get  $4,000 a month, for the nine months of the school year.  However, they can choose to receive $3,000 a month, for 12 months.  It's a decision each teacher has to make.   Other areas may not allow this, but it is a option here.   

My son is a tenured 5th grade teacher.  He does the 12 month salary arrangement.  He supplements his income during the school year by taking on assignments that pay extra via a stipend.  He coaches basketball, is on the faculty hiring team and the contract negotiation team. 

 

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11 hours ago, Carm6773 said:

It would have cost more per month to add him than the Obamacare insurance quotes, which weren't cheap because they took into account household income rather than just his (we try to keep our finances as separate as possible).  The cost to add him to my insurance was 4X my cost.

Ah, now I get it. But four times as much sounds kinda exzessive (and doesn't really make sense...)

 

11 hours ago, Carm6773 said:

Not any better, but he did manage to find insurance cheaper than what my plan and Obamacare offered.  There are plenty of things wrong with Education in America, but that's another discussion for another time.

You may wanna check that cheaper plan to see what it covers. One thing Obamacare prevented insurance companies from doing is give people junk plans that barely cover a dentist checkup.

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