[Spoilers] The "Dark" Lenny Thread: Season 11

[3ku11]

I Felt since Bill Prady stepped back. And Moloro took over. Any hope of multi story arch LP Wedding, with any real detail and/or quality. Was kinda gone. 

I don't think any 13th season has been agreed too verbally or in contract. But if Ratings are still strong end of next season. ITs probable.

 

[chucky]

39 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I Felt since Bill Prady stepped back. And Moloro took over. Any hope of multi story arch LP Wedding, with any real detail and/or quality. Was kinda gone. 

Yeah, the writing was on the wall when Molaro took over.

[Swedish Chef]

3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I Felt since Bill Prady stepped back. And Moloro took over. Any hope of multi story arch LP Wedding, with any real detail and/or quality. Was kinda gone. 

I don't think any 13th season has been agreed too verbally or in contract. But if Ratings are still strong end of next season. ITs probable.

 

I Totally agree with you. Moloro has never had Lenny  as a first priority.

 

[Zephon75]

2 hours ago, Swedish Chef said:

I Totally agree with you. Moloro has never had Lenny  as a first priority.

 

Exactly and unfortunately it appears that Holland is no different,  well at least he cut out all the ridiculous arguments between Leonard & Penny. Although we don't know what he might conjure up for them in season 12 . But it's safe to say they'll be less plots and stories for them than Sheldon/Shamy. I mean hasn't it already been confirmed that Sheldon's super asymmetry is going to get a lot of attention this coming season?. 

[snowflake79]

God, I really hope the "dark" Lenny thread for season 12 will not surpass the season 12 Lenny ship-zone thread in postings/pages. That would be so incredibly sad.

Edited June 23, 2018 by snowflake79

[bfm]

12 minutes ago, snowflake79 said:

God, I really hope the "dark" Lenny thread for season 12 will not surpass the season 12 Lenny ship-zone thread in postings/pages. That would be so incredibly sad.

So much negativity in this forum. It's depressing.

This one is only a third of the shipping one in pages. It's the place for Lennya to vent. Before we had the dark thread many negative or partially negative posts went in the shipping one and it annoyed those who did not want the negativity. At the same time if you wanted to vent (and in season 10 there was a lot more to vent) you knew you could not write in the thread that is intended for Lennys. I think the dark thread is a good solution that grew out of a need.

[snowflake79]

All I'm saying is, I hope the real Lenny thread will be stronger than this one. I hope the LIGHT will defeat the DARK!

[JE7]

21 minutes ago, snowflake79 said:

All I'm saying is, I hope the real Lenny thread will be stronger than this one. I hope the LIGHT will defeat the DARK!

A peak into the TBBT writers room....

[veejay]

1 hour ago, snowflake79 said:

God, I really hope the "dark" Lenny thread for season 12 will not surpass the season 12 Lenny ship-zone thread in postings/pages. That would be so incredibly sad.

I understand your concerns. Unfortunately, this is not a pure Lenny forum and even if it were, the development of Lenny in recent years within TBBT have unfortunately shown that the most loyal Lenny fan can use this own little place to vent one's anger and take a pause for breath. But in my opinion this doesn't change the positive basic feeling and the love for Lenny.

[3ku11]

I was wondering was their any way to avoid the lack of Lenny development since S7? Clearly their was a decision at the top. That S6 was the pinnacle of LP Development, for better or for worse. Clearly the direction post you could to say post S7. From a writing stance has not been desireable to say the least. I do think this is less about the quality of the writing. And more about the quantity. IF you watch early TBBT. It is quite striking how much isolated and prolonged screen time Leonard and Penny got. This is some of my fav LP stuff earlier on. 

 

Einstein Approxmatation was a great example of unique and interesting story telling. 

 

 

Now of course that is not to say their were not great moments later on. A Ton in the Fourth Season. S5 150th episode comes to mind. S6 Holocast. Tardis scene. But guess my point is quantity. They were always so realistically written. So naturally their relationship has changed alot ova the past 11 seasons. Some changes not so good. So I would not expect the showrunners to write them like they were S 1-3. Its not realistic. But my point is I Felt when Moloro took over. Not a slight againgst him as a writer. Hes a great writer. But the overall tone and premise of the show seemed to shift. They could of written alot of great LP stories as a married couple. Prady seemed to get Lenny and TBBT the most. His influence was obvious. 

I guess too the storytelling ova the years has become more clichied, and stereotypical. And by driving the show through one character. The overall show has felt unequal. So this derives from a real lack of story and character development for fans of Lenny post S6. And I Guess because of that. Quality of the show declines. 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by 3ku11

[chucky]

7 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I Guess because of that. Quality of the show declines. 

I totally agree with everything you said period. There will be naysayers, but I 100% agree. Thanks for the memories with the gifts. They were some of my favorite times before the show was renamed The Sheldon Cooper Show.

[Mario D.]

15 hours ago, chucky said:

It could very possibly go either way. I'm going out on a limb and say Season 13 is a sure thing. Don't ask me why, that's just what I feel will happen.

I am getting that vibe as well

7 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

Exactly and unfortunately it appears that Holland is no different,  well at least he cut out all the ridiculous arguments between Leonard & Penny. Although we don't know what he might conjure up for them in season 12 . But it's safe to say they'll be less plots and stories for them than Sheldon/Shamy. I mean hasn't it already been confirmed that Sheldon's super asymmetry is going to get a lot of attention this coming season?. 

Think you are correct.  I believe I read that Holland wants to continue the asymmetry topic into the 12th season.  If as you say there will be less plots for Lenny than why would they sign up for another season? The only thing I can think of would be that they want to preserve the legacy of the show and not leave on such a sour note.

3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I was wondering was their any way to avoid the lack of Lenny development since S7? Clearly their was a decision at the top. That S6 was the pinnacle of LP Development, for better or for worse. Clearly the direction post you could to say post S7. From a writing stance has not been desireable to say the least. I do think this is less about the quality of the writing. And more about the quantity. IF you watch early TBBT. It is quite striking how much isolated and prolonged screen time Leonard and Penny got. This is some of my fav LP stuff earlier on. 

 

Einstein Approxmatation was a great example of unique and interesting story telling. 

 

 

Now of course that is not to say their were not great moments later on. A Ton in the Fourth Season. S5 150th episode comes to mind. S6 Holocast. Tardis scene. But guess my point is quantity. They were always so realistically written. So naturally their relationship has changed alot ova the past 11 seasons. Some changes not so good. So I would not expect the showrunners to write them like they were S 1-3. Its not realistic. But my point is I Felt when Moloro took over. Not a slight againgst him as a writer. Hes a great writer. But the overall tone and premise of the show seemed to shift. They could of written alot of great LP stories as a married couple. Prady seemed to get Lenny and TBBT the most. His influence was obvious. 

I guess too the storytelling ova the years has become more clichied, and stereotypical. And by driving the show through one character. The overall show has felt unequal. So this derives from a real lack of story and character development for fans of Lenny post S6. And I Guess because of that. Quality of the show declines. 

 

That is a well written analysis - Bravo

[Die Zimtzicke]

52 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Think you are correct.  I believe I read that Holland wants to continue the asymmetry topic into the 12th season.  If as you say there will be less plots for Lenny than why would they sign up for another season? The only thing I can think of would be that they want to preserve the legacy of the show and not leave on such a sour note.

Money. I wouldn't turn down that amount of money for that amount of work. Would you?

[chucky]

1 minute ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Money. I wouldn't turn down that amount of money for that amount of work. Would you?

most definitely not!

[Carlos]

9 hours ago, bfm said:

This one is only a third of the shipping one in pages. It's the place for Lennya to vent. Before we had the dark thread many negative or partially negative posts went in the shipping one and it annoyed those who did not want the negativity. At the same time if you wanted to vent (and in season 10 there was a lot more to vent) you knew you could not write in the thread that is intended for Lennys. I think the dark thread is a good solution that grew out of a need.

The Dark Lenny thread was created out of need and not because we just wanted to be negative. The blame lies with the show writers and not the posters.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

The Dark Lenny thread was created out of need and not because we just wanted to be negative. The blame lies with the show writers and not the posters.

The blame lies with the show writers, which I totally agree with. But at the same time we can't let the show runner get a pass. He's just as guilty!

[Mario D.]

11 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Money. I wouldn't turn down that amount of money for that amount of work. Would you?

 I agree   Money is a big, big reason but I also think after 12 years there are other factors to consider.  I only hope that those factors are not the deciding option.

[chucky]

5 hours ago, Mario D. said:

 I agree   Money is a big, big reason but I also think after 12 years there are other factors to consider.  I only hope that those factors are not the deciding option.

That maybe the deciding factor now as Lenny have been reduced to window dressing.

Edited June 24, 2018 by chucky

[JohnPhD]

On 6/20/2018 at 8:55 PM, hokie3457 said:

When I watched Episode 11.24, I felt such sadness that TPTB had the ability to write a beautiful, touching wedding episode. That they chose not to do so for Penny and Leonard, twice, really took the wind out of my sails (read that in a book this afternoon at lunch and it really fits). It was really wonderful and fans of The Big Bang Theory and Shamy shippers should be over the moon.....It is just that it is sad that the Hofstadters could not get one wedding that wasn't overshadowed....

Well, maybe it would have been  a beautiful, touching wedding if it hadn't been Shamy. But as that couple have zero chemistry and Amy has zero charm it was just boring. If they had to show the Shamy wedding they should have played it for laughs wrt the couple as well as the guests. They waste a wonderful comic and romantic actress (KC) and make MB play the romantic heroine and she just can't do it. Not her fault - it's not the job she was hired for.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

Well, maybe it would have been  a beautiful, touching wedding if it hadn't been Shamy. But as that couple have zero chemistry and Amy has zero charm it was just boring. If they had to show the Shamy wedding they should have played it for laughs wrt the couple as well as the guests. They waste a wonderful comic and romantic actress (KC) and make MB play the romantic heroine and she just can't do it. Not her fault - it's not the job she was hired for.

Totally agree!

[5Mississippis]

On 6/20/2018 at 3:55 PM, hokie3457 said:

When I watched Episode 11.24, I felt such sadness that TPTB had the ability to write a beautiful, touching wedding episode. That they chose not to do so for Penny and Leonard, twice, really took the wind out of my sails (read that in a book this afternoon at lunch and it really fits). It was really wonderful and fans of The Big Bang Theory and Shamy shippers should be over the moon.....It is just that it is sad that the Hofstadters could not get one wedding that wasn't overshadowed....

That is just two of the many insults Leonard and Penny (and their fans) suffered at the hands of TPTB during Seasons 8 thru 10. 

As for Season 11, I did watch every show (and really felt that Lenny and the Shelnard moments were much better represented than in previous seasons) but each was deleted from the DVR just after I watched them. For me, absolutely nothing was worthwhile enough to merit a revisiting.

If Lenny had been written in early seasons like it was in Seasons 8 thru10, I never would have become a Lenny. 

As for the Shamy wedding, they made Amy look ridiculous and the best part was Penny throwing her arm across Leonard's shoulders as they exited. 

[veejay]

45 minutes ago, 5Mississippis said:

That is just two of the many insults Leonard and Penny (and their fans) suffered at the hands of TPTB during Seasons 8 thru 10. 

As for Season 11, I did watch every show (and really felt that Lenny and the Shelnard moments were much better represented than in previous seasons) but each was deleted from the DVR just after I watched them. For me, absolutely nothing was worthwhile enough to merit a revisiting.

If Lenny had been written in early seasons like it was in Seasons 8 thru10, I never would have become a Lenny. 

As for the Shamy wedding, they made Amy look ridiculous and the best part was Penny throwing her arm across Leonard's shoulders as they exited. 

Definitely d'accord. But there's a reason for that sh.. and I'm sure most of us here know exactly why.

Edited June 24, 2018 by veejay

[chucky]

14 minutes ago, veejay said:

Definitely d'accord. But there's a reason for that sh.. and I'm sure most of us here know exactly why.

Another interruption. The writers simply love interrupting Lenny, but shamy gets a free pass.

[Swedish Chef]

On 6/23/2018 at 1:45 PM, 3ku11 said:

I was wondering was their any way to avoid the lack of Lenny development since S7? Clearly their was a decision at the top. That S6 was the pinnacle of LP Development, for better or for worse. Clearly the direction post you could to say post S7. From a writing stance has not been desireable to say the least. I do think this is less about the quality of the writing. And more about the quantity. IF you watch early TBBT. It is quite striking how much isolated and prolonged screen time Leonard and Penny got. This is some of my fav LP stuff earlier on. 

 

Einstein Approxmatation was a great example of unique and interesting story telling. 

 

 

Now of course that is not to say their were not great moments later on. A Ton in the Fourth Season. S5 150th episode comes to mind. S6 Holocast. Tardis scene. But guess my point is quantity. They were always so realistically written. So naturally their relationship has changed alot ova the past 11 seasons. Some changes not so good. So I would not expect the showrunners to write them like they were S 1-3. Its not realistic. But my point is I Felt when Moloro took over. Not a slight againgst him as a writer. Hes a great writer. But the overall tone and premise of the show seemed to shift. They could of written alot of great LP stories as a married couple. Prady seemed to get Lenny and TBBT the most. His influence was obvious. 

I guess too the storytelling ova the years has become more clichied, and stereotypical. And by driving the show through one character. The overall show has felt unequal. So this derives from a real lack of story and character development for fans of Lenny post S6. And I Guess because of that. Quality of the show declines. 

 

I think it is really sad that the writers these days doesn't want to write any significant Lenny stories anymore. All we get are just some small scenes between a heavy Shamy story.

Almost everything that happens in the show doesn't really need to be about Shamy, in my opinion, there should be stories to tell about the other characters as well.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Swedish Chef said:

I think it is really sad that the writers these days doesn't want to write any significant Lenny stories anymore. All we get are just some small scenes between a heavy Shamy story.

Almost everything that happens in the show doesn't really need to be about Shamy, in my opinion, there should be stories to tell about the other characters as well.

There you go Chef. You nailed it right on the head. Very eloquently stated. The problem is that Holland and the writers could care less about the other 5 characters as long as shamy is nicely written. they waste the talents of Johnny, Kaley, Simon, Melissa and Kunal. They are just used as backdrop for shamy.