Kaley (Penny) changes between season 7 and 8

[Ami123]

Here in Israel we had seasons 1 to 7 of The Big Band Theory on Video On Demand, and I loved it and saw all episodes at least 6 times. Penny was my favorite character, and I guess that the main reason for the series appeal is the fact that short nerds and geeks can date a beautiful girl like Penny.  season 7 ends with Leonard and Penny get engaged. throughout most of the 7 seasons, Penny had long blonde hair, possibly by using hair extensions or wig, which made her beautiful. We received season 8 few days ago, and to my disappointment, Penny's hair became dark and short. I must confess that for me all the appeal of the series is lost. I made myself watch few episodes, but the magic is gone. One more irritating fact is that the live audience applause too loudly and laugh in the wrong places, possibly because the jokes are not as good as in the previous seasons. My question is why the production allowed Kaley/Penny to come with different hair style and appearance, which changes all the relations between her and Leonard.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Ami123
typos

[Tensor]

Kaley Cuoco, cut her hair for a movie part over the summer, between seasons 7 and 8.  That is the reason for her short hair.  There is quite a bit of discussion in the season 8 forum as to the changes in the Leonard and Penny relationship, most having nothing to do with her hair.  

[joyceraye]

On 19/08/2017 at 10:45 PM, Ami123 said:

Here in Israel we had seasons 1 to 7 of the big band theory on VOD, and I loved it and saw all episodes at least 6 times. Penny was my favorite character, and I guess that the main reason for the series appeal is the fact that short nerds and geeks can date a beautiful girl like Penny (I guess that this is also true for the series Seinfeld, where an average person like Jerry Seinfeld can date all the beautiful girls of New York, and do not mind aborting the relationship since he knows he can get whoever he chooses). season 7 ends with Lennard and Penny get engaged. throughout most of the 7 seasons, Penny had long blonde hair, possibly with hair additions or wig, which made her beautiful. We received season 8 few days ago, and to my disappointment, penny's hair became dark and short. I must confess that for me all the appeal of the series is lost. I made myself watch few apisodes, but the magic is gone. One more irritating fact is that the live audiance applause too loudly and laugh in the wrong places, possibly because the jokes are not as good as in the previous seasons. My question is why the production allowed Kelly/Penny to come with different hair and appearence, which changes all the relations between her and Lennard.

I thought the short hair suited Penny very well. She was starting a permanent, stable job for which she had to look smart and neat. It gave her an air of professionalism and efficiency.

[Ami123]

1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I thought the short hair suited Penny very well. She was starting a permanent, stable job for which she had to look smart and neat. It gave her an air of professionalism and efficiency.

In real life you are absolutely right - Penny is already engaged and there is no reason for her to look too attractive to get free drinks or whatever she needs, and decent and professional appearance could match her career aspirations in sales. For a TV series, the reasons should be different. For most men, an attractive girl in a series (who can also play reasonably) is a good reason to subscribe to VOD (for this reason they show pretty girls in commercials).  My analysis of the series success was that men who have difficulty finding attractive girls prefer to watch or read stories about an average man who succeed dating and even marry a good looking girl. I guess that even the fairy tale Cinderela is based on such fantasies. If 7 seasons of a TV series uses this idea by following the relationships between Leonard and Penny, you do not except it to change so late in the story. It could be OK if they used a time machine to move 20 years in the future or in another dimension, but for career purpose changing one of the main characters and making her less attractive is an artistic miscalculation.

[bfm]

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

In real life you are absolutely right - Penny is already engaged and there is no reason for her to look too attractive to get free drinks or whatever she needs, and decent and professional appearance could match her career aspirations in sales. For a TV series, the reasons should be different. For most men, an attractive girl in a series (who can also play reasonably) is a good reason to subscribe to VOD (for this reason they show pretty girls in commercials).  My analysis of the series success was that men who have difficulty finding attractive girls prefer to watch or read stories about an average man who succeed dating and even marry a good looking girl. I guess that even the fairy tale Cinderela is based on such fantasies. If 7 seasons of a TV series uses this idea by following the relationships between Leonard and Penny, you do not except it to change so late in the story. It could be OK if they used a time machine to move 20 years in the future or in another dimension, but for career purpose changing one of the main characters and making her less attractive is an artistic miscalculation.

The TBBT audience is diverse, in fact the Leonard-Penny fans are a diverse group as well. I am a heterosexual female Leonard-Penny fan. While I didn't like her S8 haircut at all (it gets much better in latter seasons BTW), her being attractive is not what drew me to the show and the couple. I like many things about the couple. These include how cute and tolerant Leonard can be, which of course has nothing to do with Penny's looks.

Edited August 21, 2017 by bfm

[April]

Just now, bfm said:

The TBBT audience is diverse, in fact the Leonard-Penny fans are diverse as way. I am a heterosexual female Leonard-Penny fan. While I didn't like her S8 haircut at all (it gets much better in latter seasons BTW), her being attractive is not what drew me to the show and the couple. I like many things about the couple. These include how cute and tolerant Leonard can be, which of course has nothing to do with Penny's looks.

Well, to be fair to him I guess we found the demographic that's into this "the nerd got the hot chick" thing. We've always been wondering who actually likes that stuff. lol

[bfm]

1 minute ago, April said:

Well, to be fair to him I guess we found the demographic that's into this "the nerd got the hot chick" thing. We've always been wondering who actually likes that stuff. lol

I think there is a difference between liking that "the nerd" got to be with "the pretty girl" who learned to appreciate him (though that implies her beauty makes her a better spouse which I do not agree with), and liking the jokes that make it seem like she is some sort of trophy and he got her by some crazy miracle. Which reminds me that I forgot to point out that Leonard is not average at all. He is a genious, a friggin' genious ;). It could be argued that she is the one that got someone "out of her league" because of his intelligence and also because of how tolerant he is with her and how much he cares about her even though she is difficult to be with. In spite of all her snarky comments there have been parts of the show where it appears that Penny herself thinks that. 

[April]

1 minute ago, bfm said:

I think there is a difference between liking that "the nerd" got to be with "the pretty girl" who learned to appreciate him (though that implies her beauty makes her a better spouse which I do not agree with), and liking the jokes that make it seem like she is some sort of trophy and he got her by some crazy miracle.

Well, our forum newbie here literally said that the whole appeal of the show for him lies in Penny's blonde locks (which apparently are the only thing that made her beautiful in his eyes??) and compared "the nerd got the hot chick" scenario to some unrealistic fairy tale. So... yeah. I'm gonna go out on a limp here and this is exactly the kind of people they're writing those jokes for.

 

[bfm]

2 hours ago, April said:

Well, our forum newbie here literally said that the whole appeal of the show for him lies in Penny's blonde locks (which apparently are the only thing that made her beautiful in his eyes??) and compared "the nerd got the hot chick" scenario to some unrealistic fairy tale. So... yeah. I'm gonna go out on a limp here and this is exactly the kind of people they're writing those jokes for.

 

I can't read people's minds so of course I don't know but there is a difference between seeing it as unlikely, because stereotypically people don't expect a "pretty girl" to get to know a "nerd", but justified because it resulted in love, and seeing it as just a completely random miracle. While obviously unrealistic the prince looks for Cinderalla because he got to meet her and liked her (and somehow knew she is the one he wants to marry after dancing with her for a few hours LOL).

Edited August 21, 2017 by bfm

[April]

9 minutes ago, bfm said:

I can't read people's minds so I of course I don't know but there is a difference between seeing it as unlikely, because stereotypically people don't expect a "pretty girl" to get to know a "nerd", but justified because it resulted in love, and seeing it as just a completely random miracle. While obviously unrealistic the prince looks for Cinderalla because he got to meet her and liked her (and somehow knew she is the one he wants to marry after dancing with her for a few hours LOL).

I'm not reading minds - I'm just going by what has been written here. Apologies if I misunderstood but he made it pretty clear where his priorities lie with the show. I know you're the kind of Lenny fan who likes to write long essays about how they're more than what meets the eye (and many if not most forum regulars who are Lenny fans share that sentiment). But then you also have people who see Lenny as simply "the nerd who got the hot chick" and put a huge emphasis on the importance of Penny's good looks and are angry at the show when she isn't looking the way they want her to. This whole "everything is ruined!!" attitude over a simple haircut that has long since grown back is just not something I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. And IMHO it's exactly the kind of sentiment those jokes we all find annoying is aimed at. It sure ain't you and me and most people on this forum they are written for - but people who think the quality of the show hinges on weather or not Kaley has the right haircut? Yeah, that's the target audience here. A constant reminder of how it's still this ~impossible fairy tale~ even though the couple has moved on into something different for quite some time now.

[bfm]

16 minutes ago, April said:

I'm not reading minds - I'm just going by what has been written here. Apologies if I misunderstood but he made it pretty clear where his priorities lie with the show. I know you're the kind of Lenny fan who likes to write long essays about how they're more than what meets the eye (and many if not most forum regulars who are Lenny fans share that sentiment). But then you also have people who see Lenny as simply "the nerd who got the hot chick" and put a huge emphasis on the importance of Penny's good looks and are angry at the show when she isn't looking the way they want her to. This whole "everything is ruined!!" attitude over a simple haircut that has long since grown back is just not something I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. And IMHO it's exactly the kind of sentiment those jokes we all find annoying is aimed at. It sure ain't you and me and most people on this forum they are written for - but people who think the quality of the show hinges on weather or not Kaley has the right haircut? Yeah, that's the target audience here. A constant reminder of how it's still this ~impossible fairy tale~ even though the couple has moved on into something different for quite some time now.

I'm not saying there aren't people who care mostly or only about Kaley's looks, but I think to enjoy these jokes you have to 1) think of Penny as a trophy 2) think that Leonard "got her" by chance (and begging) and doesn't have any qualities that would make him a decent spouse. I don't no how many people meet these 2 conditions. I want to believe it's not 85% perecent of the viewers, that's what makes these jokes irk me even more - I don't think they're worth the laughs they might get. But I really don't know. To each their own...

Edited August 21, 2017 by bfm

[April]

4 minutes ago, bfm said:

I'm not saying there aren't people who care mostly or only about Kaley's looks, but I think to enjoy these jokes you have to 1) think of Penny as a trophy 2) think that Leonard "got her" by chance (and begging) and doesn't have any qualities that would make him a decent spouse. I don't no how many people meet these 2 conditions. I want to believe it's not 85% perecent of the viewers, that's what makes these jokes irk me even more - I don't think they're worth the laughs they might get. But I really don't know. To each their own...

I'm not sure that I would agree with your conditions here - I think 1) would totally suffice to buy into that kind of humour, especially when you're already subscribing to the idea of men being so dull they need something sexy to keep their attention. I sure would hope that most men aren't but the constant reinforcement of this stereotype by men themselves isn't filling me with much hope sometimes. To each their own indeed... Oh well.

[bfm]

9 minutes ago, April said:

I'm not sure that I would agree with your conditions here - I think 1) would totally suffice to buy into that kind of humour, especially when you're already subscribing to the idea of men being so dull they need something sexy to keep their attention. I sure would hope that most men aren't but the constant reinforcement of this stereotype by men themselves isn't filling me with much hope sometimes. To each their own indeed... Oh well.

Yeah I think that view is offensive to both men and women. 

But the jokes we're talking about usually present Leonard as this looser who begged his way and "got" Penny by some miracle, not because he has any good qualities or has treated her in a way that makes him a desirable spouse. Hence my other condition.

[April]

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

Yeah I think that view is offensive to both men and women. 

You and me both, sister!

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

But the jokes we're talking about usually present Leonard as this looser who begged his way and "got" Penny by some miracle, not because he has any good qualities or has treated her in a way that makes him a desirable spouse. Hence my other condition.

For me I think it's enough if you see him as an average guy and their story as an unrealistic fantasy scenario. And by "average" I mean with regards to his dating qualities which the show has always been weirdly downplayed even though he's a genius level intellectual working at a prestigious university and getting dates all the time in the show. Not to mention he was in pretty great shape when they met (though they hid that under the costume). So if you buy into that idea for the first 7 seasons then I'm not sure what would change your mind here if your only concern is that Penny has a new haircut. I mean, what annoys most of us is that the writers for the life of them won't drop this stupid joke. The persistence of including these snipes have long outlived the reality of their dating experience, even before S8. And yet some people still buy into the "the nerd got the hot chick" thing. ugh

[Capt. Hilts]

3 hours ago, April said:

You and me both, sister!

For me I think it's enough if you see him as an average guy and their story as an unrealistic fantasy scenario. And by "average" I mean with regards to his dating qualities which the show has always been weirdly downplayed even though he's a genius level intellectual working at a prestigious university and getting dates all the time in the show. Not to mention he was in pretty great shape when they met (though they hid that under the costume). So if you buy into that idea for the first 7 seasons then I'm not sure what would change your mind here if your only concern is that Penny has a new haircut. I mean, what annoys most of us is that the writers for the life of them won't drop this stupid joke. The persistence of including these snipes have long outlived the reality of their dating experience, even before S8. And yet some people still buy into the "the nerd got the hot chick" thing. ugh

It's a male fantasy.  The guy who doesn't look fit gets all the girls.  Leonard, for a guy who was originally written to be uncomfortable around women, has had more sexual partners than most of the other characters, combined.

And, Penny as a "ditz" [no 'male' word for that, yes, it's sexist], lasted about three episodes.  

[bfm]

4 hours ago, April said:

You and me both, sister!

For me I think it's enough if you see him as an average guy and their story as an unrealistic fantasy scenario. And by "average" I mean with regards to his dating qualities which the show has always been weirdly downplayed even though he's a genius level intellectual working at a prestigious university and getting dates all the time in the show. Not to mention he was in pretty great shape when they met (though they hid that under the costume). So if you buy into that idea for the first 7 seasons then I'm not sure what would change your mind here if your only concern is that Penny has a new haircut. I mean, what annoys most of us is that the writers for the life of them won't drop this stupid joke. The persistence of including these snipes have long outlived the reality of their dating experience, even before S8. And yet some people still buy into the "the nerd got the hot chick" thing. ugh

I usually give likes when I agree with the whole post so I gave you a tiara 

For me that downgrading you are talking about is part of those jokes; that's why I made the second condition.

[April]

20 minutes ago, bfm said:

I usually give likes when I agree with the whole post so I gave you a tiara 

For me that downgrading you are talking about is part of those jokes; that's why I made the second condition.

So I guess we mean the same thing then. lol

[Ami123]

I would like to add some comments about this weird discussion between Bfm and April, thus it seems that some people judge other people based on their own opinions and prejudice rather than on facts.

The following points made TBBT a very good series to my opinion :1) most of the jokes in the first 7 seasons are excellent. the series is funny and amusing and gives you good time watching it. 2) Acting capabilities of most actors, and a good match between the actors and their role in the show. 3) the scientific and university environment (I am an Electrical engineer with MSc (like Howard Wollovich), and can appreciate most of the items, including Schredinger cat, black holes and the Hadrone collider). people without scientific background will enjoy it less. 4) The love affair between Leonard and Penny, its ups and downs, and the expected happy end by their engagement at the end of S7.

In my previous post I stated that some TV series, including TBBT and Seinfeld, use a romantic trick, in which an average looking person, succeed making a beautiful girl (or many girls) to fall in love with him. This makes average person who watch the series to feel good, by feeling that if the guy in the series succeed, there is a chance the he too can make it in the future. I guess that many love stories, movies, plays and other artistic forms use this trick, and TBBT is not exception, but it implements it very well and make it last 7 years, which keep the tension and the appeal of the series. In this respect, Penny's look is crucial for this romantic trick. Leonard may be Genius, but as Leslie mentioned once, his children may become short, with Asthma and lactose intolerance, which makes him less attractive as a date. I never said that hair is the only thing that make Penny pretty, but mentioned that when she cut it short, her look changes dramatically (from a girl who work at a bar and flirt with the guys she become a woman like Loenard mother, or Sheldom mother), and this effect the story. It even feel not fair for Leonard, who engage penny of S7 and received another version at S8.

In season 7, the romance between Penny and Leonard becomes standard and realistic : Penny cannot find work as actress, her car is broken and she become broke, and than comes the knight with the shiny armor, draw his credit card and solve all the problems. This is the main point in which life meets fantasy, and the Lenny-Penny romance resemble Donnald-Melany romance, as the guy provides the money and the girl provides the look.            

[April]

18 minutes ago, Ami123 said:

I would like to add some comments about this weird discussion between Bfm and April, thus it seems that some people judge other people based on their own opinions and prejudice rather than on facts.

Sorry about that - it's out of context for you because it's about a discussion that's been going on for ages in the forum.

19 minutes ago, Ami123 said:

the guy provides the money and the girl provides the look.

Well, if you put it like this that makes it so much better!

lol

[3ku11]

Kaley not Kelly. 

1 hour ago, April said:

Sorry about that - it's out of context for you because it's about a discussion that's been going on for ages in the forum.

Well, if you put it like this that makes it so much better!

lol

Here I was thinking Leonard was providing the look 

[Ami123]

1 hour ago, April said:

Sorry about that - it's out of context for you because it's about a discussion that's been going on for ages in the forum.

Well, if you put it like this that makes it so much better!

lol

One last comment - It is a law of nature (valid at least as the law of Gravity) that guys, regardless of race and color, prefer blondes, in the same way that girls prefer the rich and famous (in addition to just have fun).  In this respect, if an Arab sheich would have planned to buy Penny, her value in S8 is devaluated by at least 50% compared to S7.

[3ku11]

36 minutes ago, Ami123 said:

One last comment - It is a law of nature (valid at least as the law of Gravity) that guys, regardless of race and color, prefer blondes, in the same way that girls prefer the rich and famous (in addition to just have fun).  In this respect, if an Arab sheich would have planned to buy Penny, her value in S8 is devaluated by at least 50% compared to S7.

I think her value from s7 to S8-10 dropped lower then that man .

[Tensor]

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

I would like to add some comments about this weird discussion between Bfm and April, thus it seems that some people judge other people based on their own opinions and prejudice rather than on facts.

Your thinking Penny is less attractive because she cut her hair is nothing more than your opinion, its not based on facts.  So you accusing others of basing their judgement is rather ironic. 

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

In my previous post I stated that some TV series, including TBBT and Seinfeld, use a romantic trick, in which an average looking person, succeed making a beautiful girl (or many girls) to fall in love with him. This makes average person who watch the series to feel good, by feeling that if the guy in the series succeed, there is a chance the he too can make it in the future. I guess that many love stories, movies, plays and other artistic forms use this trick, and TBBT is not exception, but it implements it very well and make it last 7 years, which keep the tension and the appeal of the series.

It's not just TV, that goes back to stories in ancient Greece.  

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

In this respect, Penny's look is crucial for this romantic trick.

Says who?  You?   It's not crucial for me.  

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

 Leonard may be Genius, but as Leslie mentioned once, his children may become short, with Asthma and lactose intolerance, which makes him less attractive as a date. I never said that hair is the only thing that make Penny pretty, but mentioned that when she cut it short, her look changes dramatically (from a girl who work at a bar and flirt with the guys she become a woman like Loenard mother, or Sheldom mother),

I've got news for you, my youngest daughter worked as a waitress, and she's kept her hair short.    She is far from a woman like Leonard's or Sheldon's mother, and a lot more like long-haired Penny.  

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

and this effect the story. It even feel not fair for Leonard, who engage penny of S7 and received another version at S8.

It evidently affected the story for you, as you are the one complaining about the short hair.  It does not mean that everyone feels the same way as you do.  

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

and this effect the story. It even feel not fair for Leonard, who engage penny of S7 and received another version at S8.

And, Penny is required to tell Leonard how she wants to wear her hair, why?   I don't think Leonard is so shallow that he thinks his attraction to Penny is only based on how long her hair is.  It's not like he owns her or anything.  

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

In season 7, the romance between Penny and Leonard becomes standard and realistic : Penny cannot find work as actress, her car is broken and she become broke, and than comes the knight with the shiny armor, draw his credit card and solve all the problems.      

Yeah, no.  It's simply one partner providing support for a long term, significant other, between two people who have also declared their love for each other.  At that point, their relationship has been going on (as close friends and lovers) for over six years.   They were also exclusive at the time, which doesn't make Leonard a knight in shinning armor.  That happened back in seasons 1-2 and season 4-5, when Leonard would do things for Penny, when he wasn't dating her.   In season seven, they were boyfriend-girlfriend, who had discussed marriage between them.   

 

8 hours ago, Ami123 said:

This is the main point in which life meets fantasy, and the Lenny-Penny romance resemble Donnald-Melany romance, as the guy provides the money and the girl provides the look.            

Penny is making more than Leonard is, she is providing the money, more than Leonard does.  So what?    Saying the man provides the money, while the woman provides the looks is pretty sexist.  

6 hours ago, Ami123 said:

One last comment - It is a law of nature (valid at least as the law of Gravity) that guys, regardless of race and color, prefer blondes,

I don't.  I actually prefer dark haired women, which makes your claim that preference for blonds law as valid as the Law of Gravity, simply wrong.  

6 hours ago, Ami123 said:

in the same way that girls prefer the rich and famous (in addition to just have fun).  

Again, not all women prefer rich and famous,  I can name quite a few who would be quite happy with someone they can just love, and who loves them for them.  

 

6 hours ago, Ami123 said:

In this respect, if an Arab sheich would have planned to buy Penny, her value in S8 is devaluated by at least 50% compared to S7.

Buy Penny?  Are you saying she lost value because she prefers to look the way she wants to look?  I would hope she would prefer those who like her the way she is, not the way others see her.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[3ku11]

To be fair I like they desexualised Penny. It took the attention away from Pennys looks. She doesent wear tank tops etc Anymore because she no longer feels the need to flaunt herself for other guys. Leonard's never expressed any negativity towards her change in appearance anyway. And showed the depth of Leonard and Pennys relationship. Clearly I was very vocal of my disdain for Pennys pixie haircut. Still hate it lol. I just think people associated Penny the hot girl next door with Lenny a lot. So considering her change in appearance 8x01. Was so dramatic and over night. So was a shock. But Penny is not too hot for Leonard, and Leonard is not too smart for Penny etc. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by 3ku11

[Ami123]

5 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

To be fair I like they desexualised Penny. It took the attention away from Pennys looks. She doesent wear tank tops etc Anymore because she no longer feels the need to flaunt herself for other guys. Leonard's never expressed any negativity towards her change in appearance anyway. And showed the depth of Leonard and Pennys relationship. Clearly I was very vocal of my disdain for Pennys pixie haircut. Still hate it lol. I just think people associated Penny the hot girl next door with Lenny a lot. So considering her change in appearance 8x01. Was so dramatic and over night. So was a shock. But Penny is not too hot for Leonard, and Leonard is not too smart for Penny etc. 

It is all a matter of taste, and people like Tensor may prefer her new look. I guess that in real life Lenny would not let penny cut her hair the way she did just after getting engaged (as if she managed to get the guy and now she is free to do with herself whatever she wants). As Tensor mentioned earlier, Kaley had to cut her hair for another movie production, and TBBT cast had to live with his fact, regardless if Leonard or anybody else approved it. This desexualising of Penny did not happen because of the writers or producers wanted it, but as a fact of life (and if we compared it to the Gorilla movie that Penny participated in, they never planned to put a mask over her face), so they had to keep her contract regardless of her look. I guess that the only thing that they could do is reduce her salary, since she is less sexy in her new look, but again, some guys even prefer her new look, so there is nothing we can do.