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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread

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4 hours ago, Jonny said:

And yet it's pretty obvious he looks happy, in fact the happiest he has ever been. I've watched every single episode multiple times and I have never seen him as content as he is now. The sadness I had for him at times during Season 2 and especially Season 3 has gone.

Honestly, I don't care about Sheldon's happiness, I care about mine as a viewer. My biggest problem, I guess, is that I don't feel the changes have been true to character. I really don't think he has evolved. And one final thing: I can't really say he was unhappy in S1-S3, he was just different.

Edited by Carlos
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3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I don't care about Sheldon being happy. I'm a selfish viewer who wants miserable Sheldon 1.0 back. Hahaha. 

I think this is down to a simple matter of preference. No one's point of view is wrong. I like some just simply prefer Sheldon 1.0. Before the character development. It's nice he's evolved, but the writers have changed a lot of the intricacies that made him so unique. Like I said, this ain't being againgst Sheldon's character evolving. Just the style of writing these days. They've almost dumbed him down somewhat to target the common and lowest denominator. Clever dialogue like "I think you have as much chance of having a sexual relationship with Penny as the Hubble telescope does of discovering at every black hole is a little man with a flashlight searching for a circuit breaker".

To  Taylor Swift references and poodle references and a solid of recently last season Sheldon abandoning physics to become a mechanic. I do miss the halcyon years of Sheldon. I mean so this ain't me personally being againgst the idea of Sheldon having character development or being happy. I've invested in this show for the long haul. So clearly I wouldn't want Sheldon observing alone while his friends have their SOs and are happy. But sometimes I wished they preserved some of his uniqueness, particularly in the dialogue. 

I agree with your post, specially the part I bolded. All those changes in Sheldon just don't ring true. Also I see no reason why his dialogue has become less intelligent through out the years. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Edited by Carlos
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1 hour ago, nusspot said:

Friday with Ira Flatow, and inadvertently discusses how physics has hit a dead end, and the Hadron Collider hasn’t really produced the results they were hoping for. We do this wonderful episode where the guys have this whole crisis of conscience about their pursuit in physics.”

This reminds me of a blog post...

Quote

...we’ve entered what has become known as the “nightmare scenario” for the LHC: The Higgs and nothing else. Many particle physicists thought of this as the worst possible outcome. It has left them without guidance, lost in a thicket of rapidly multiplying models. Without some new physics, they have nothing to work with that they haven’t already had for 50 years, no new input that can tell them in which direction to look for the ultimate goal of unification and/or quantum gravity. 

that from http://backreaction.blogspot.ca/2016/08/the-lhc-nightmare-scenario-has-come-true.html

And also from almost a year ago....

Quote

If supersymmetry is right, then the LHC should find a host of particles never before observed. And the supporters of supersymmetry believed those particles would be found within a decade.

Finally, this summer, years later than expected, the LHC reached the energies expected to produce these particles. Last month, the teams involved in the search reported their findings.

They had observed nothing.

For some at the Copenhagen meeting, this came as no surprise. They had always regarded the arguments for supersymmetry as less than compelling, and were sceptical that the LHC would be able to find the particles, if they did exist.

But the theory’s supporters do not see it that way. They conceded they have lost – but only on a technicality. Sooner or later, they insisted, they would be proved right. The predicted particles would be found, if not in the LHC then in a bigger, more powerful accelerator.

[snip]

That is what could make last month’s meeting in Copenhagen a turning point for science. It may mark the beginning of the end for Big Science, with its multibillion-dollar costs and decade-long timescales.

Across the sciences, there is a growing sense of unease about the lack of progress on so many fronts. Scientists say that has to do with the relentless demand to produce papers and bring in funding.

The result is “bandwagon science”, where researchers focus on fashionable ideas most likely to be accepted by journals, and lead to more funding. As more of these fashionable ideas fail, bandwagon science is starting to look as clever as investing huge sums into a handful of start-ups.

that from https://www.thenational.ae/uae/science-at-a-crossroads-as-supersymmetry-theory-falls-flat-1.218622

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34 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Honestly, I don't care about Sheldon's happiness, I care about mine as a viewer. My biggest problem, I guess, is that I don't feel the changes have been true to character. I really don't think he has evolved. And one final thing: I can't really say he was unhappy in S1-S3, he was just different.

He wasn't unhappy. Someone earlier mentioned Howard and Sheldon were the most interesting stories. I see that for Howard. Not for Sheldon. His change was for two reasons IMO. More viewership for one. Many don't care what happened in the first three seasons. Pre Amy isn't important for them. The other is if he didn't make a change (unrealistic as it's been) he really would of been not needed. Granted I think we wouldn't be talking about the show without him. Who knows. maybe they could had him and Raj hook up 

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1 hour ago, Carlos said:

Honestly, I don't care about Sheldon's happiness, I care about mine as a viewer. My biggest problem, I guess, is that I don't feel the changes have been true to character. I really don't think he has evolved. And one final thing: I can't really say he was unhappy in S1-S3, he was just different.

To each his (or her) own. I think Sheldon's growth has been very organic, as has Howard's and Penny's. It's one of the things I like best about the show. If they were all the same people they were in Seasons 1-3, I'd have gotten bored and left by now. I suspect much of  the audience would have as well, but that's my own bias. 

I will say that my brother, on his own, discovered Big Bang just recently and over the summer watched all 10 seasons. He knows I like the show, but that's about it. TBBT isn't a big topic of conversation for us. I asked him the other day if he liked the early season or the late seasons better, if he could tell a difference. He said, "I liked it better once they all got girlfriends." Totally anecdotal and FWIW, but there's one vote. 

 

Edited by Gbb
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5 hours ago, Jonny said:

So maybe the Sheldon you are seeing now is perhaps through experiences both good and bad the person he has always wanted to be? Perhaps deep down he wanted some of these things but never had the opportunities or wasn't brave enough to take them? He knows he is different he has some quirks and issues but he will have seen other relationships, other social norms and perhaps having some of the same desires.

So, he's always wanted to be a manipulative jerk?   See, I could buy, and wasn't bothered by the early Sheldon negative reactions, just because it was his innocence, or ignorance of the situations that made it believable.   However, since his "organic" changes, his manipulative actions now have a darker connotation.    Organic changes would have included his becoming aware of what his actions were doing to others.   He's doing the same manipulative things, but he's doing them, even though he now knows better.  So, no, I don't buy the changes being organic.   I didn't start to dislike Sheldon until the eight episode of season 6.   As more and more episodes, after that, indicated he was aware, of his actions, it became obvious he knew what he was doing, and still went ahead and did them, just to be manipulative or to get what he wanted.  

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7 minutes ago, Tensor said:

So, he's always wanted to be a manipulative jerk?   See, I could buy, and wasn't bothered by the early Sheldon negative reactions, just because it was his innocence, or ignorance of the situations that made it believable.   However, since his "organic" changes, his manipulative actions now have a darker connotation.    Organic changes would have included his becoming aware of what his actions were doing to others.   He's doing the same manipulative things, but he's doing them, even though he now knows better.  So, no, I don't buy the changes being organic.   I didn't start to dislike Sheldon until the eight episode of season 6.   As more and more episodes, after that, indicated he was aware, of his actions, it became obvious he knew what he was doing, and still went ahead and did them, just to be manipulative or to get what he wanted.  

"....sometimes the baby wins"....

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Just now, hokie3457 said:

"....sometimes the baby wins"....

Exactly...

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30 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I didn't start to dislike Sheldon until the eight episode of season 6.  As more and more episodes, after that, indicated he was aware, of his actions, it became obvious he knew what he was doing, and still went ahead and did them

I guess this was the turning point.

Leonard: None of this matters. I trust that Penny cares about me, and nothing’s gonna happen with this guy.

Sheldon: Well, unless of course he’s a skilled hypnotist.

Leonard: What?

Sheldon: While unlikely, it’s still a statistical possibility. She might be performing sexual acts with him and not even know it.

Leonard: Now you’re just being ridiculous.

Sheldon: Am I? The mind’s a mysterious thing, Leonard. He could be having the time of his life while she thinks she’s a chicken pecking for corn.

sheldonpeckingcorn0608.gif.2511757be72230ac63a787f079e01cb2.gif

I think we all know what's implied with "chicken pecking for corn" together with Sheldon's head movements. :icon_wink:

Edited by luminous
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3 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Honestly the standard model is still thriving and SUSY is just an extension of it which if true perfect!If not,life goes on,SM is still correct ...Also,gravity is becoming huge lately and we literally know nothing about it which is even more exciting than high energies.

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8 hours ago, Jonny said:

So maybe the Sheldon you are seeing now is perhaps through experiences both good and bad the person he has always wanted to be? 

He himself acknowledges this when he realizes the song Darlin' fits his relationship with Amy, I think.

6 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Sheldon is more like those who as children have been rushed unwanted  into unwelcoming older company because of academic over-achievement and so have missed out on the natural social development and training they should have been given.

This is also true of Amy in my opinion. At one of the Paleyfests they even admitted this when asked about her BFF crush on Penny.,

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20 minutes ago, DoctorWhat said:

Also,gravity is becoming huge lately and we literally know nothing about it which is even more exciting than high energies.

Can you be a bit more specific as to what you mean by "we literally know nothing about it?"

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11 hours ago, Jonny said:

And yet it's pretty obvious he looks happy, in fact the happiest he has ever been. I've watched every single episode multiple times and I have never seen him as content as he is now. The sadness I had for him at times during Season 2 and especially Season 3 has gone.

I get why some might pine for the old Sheldon/robotic Sheldon, but maybe you should take the view I did and do for any TV characters that go on journeys through life and also something that clearly imitates real life when it comes to actively making choices that they perceive as something better. He made changes to his life because he WANTED them to happen. He had numerous opportunities over the years to go back to some of his older life and his old homeostasis (think Zazzy, the Season 9 breakup, even In Veracity Elasticity and the genius Buridan's Donkey scene as examples) but he didn't take them, so you have got to ask yourself why. Occam's Razor? He liked where he was heading and the changes he made to his life, maybe he didn't show or reveal to viewers this but in his mind he thinks that way.

So maybe the Sheldon you are seeing now is perhaps through experiences both good and bad the person he has always wanted to be? Perhaps deep down he wanted some of these things but never had the opportunities or wasn't brave enough to take them? He knows he is different he has some quirks and issues but he will have seen other relationships, other social norms and perhaps having some of the same desires.

This poses the question that is commonly asked around here or mentioned, has he lost something by embracing these changes? That's up to each viewer and their preference of how they like to see him, but if he has lost something he has gained a lot as well. But like I said earlier I take the view that if he has changed or perhaps some of his priorities have shifted as he has gotten older it's because he has wanted this to happen. He has said numerous times or inferred it through actions that the life he has now is better than he had.

Going back to this idea about Sheldon perhaps in his mind wanting things in his life think back to the conversation between Sheldon and his mother in 10.19 in The Holiday Summation and Sheldon's reaction when his mother thought he wasn't going to find anyone to be with and live out his life alone. That justifiably angry reaction by Sheldon strikes me as someone who perhaps throughout his life contemplated/feared being alone and didn't want that so he took great offence at what she said. I am not a big fan of that episode but that discussion and his reaction before he stormed off to his room stood out to me as a fascinating insight into his mind, it's one of the rare glimpses we get because he can be such an enigma.

I hope he continues to change and evolve over the next two years, there have in my view been two truly great transformations on this show which is really a sitcom about life or a life comedy. Sheldon and Howard for me are probably the two most interesting stories and well crafted on the show over those 10 years and when the creators of the show talk about what the show is actually about you won't find a better example of that than Sheldon's or Howard's life stories.

Finally I expect the stories and the journey witnessed on the show with the whole gang have provided a great deal of inspiration to those out there perhaps with social issues or quirks that make them feel like they are social outcasts. This show has proven that you can experience all that life has to offer even if you are different and are not part of social/society norms. That's inspiring and I suspect it will be the show's greatest legacy!

So basically your saying he is a self centered ass because he wants to be and it's what makes him happy.

I agree :shy:

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Based on the title, "The Retraction Reaction," I'm assuming Mrs. Davis/the university wants Leonard to retract his statement, and maybe he declines to do so. I wish we had more information on this episode. Hopefully, someone is going to the third one and can provide information on both episodes 2 and 3!

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Well episode 3 may shed more light on Leonard's comments. Of course it may give the faculty and University bad press. Based on his comments. Depends on what he actually said of course. And if he said fundamental physics is dead. Then he well be right.. And may sound like Leonard we'll stand by his comments. Because he believe he was justified. 

ETA: problem with Sheldon evolving. Their is less excuses for his asinine and manuplitive behaviour. So yeah "Sometimes the baby wins". This is mostly a writing issue. You could say the same about Lenny. In terms of the incongruous jokes they make. Which is contrary to their character development. Like "he wore me down jokes". Problem is it's hard to suspend your disbelief when they continue with this type of writing. So yeah, Sheldon is a self centred ass, and that makes him happy :sarcastichand:.

Edited by 3ku11
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With the little information we got from the second taping I can now see how season 11 will be for Lenny. 

Leonard  gets fired from Cal-tech in episode three and then he and Penny decides to move to a farm in Nebraska there they will raise their smart and beautiful babies.  :sarcastichand:

 

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15 hours ago, nusspot said:

From Vanity Fair

 

Thanks for the link. It's an interesting take on the episode. Not really sure if that was just the journalist's interpretation, but if really the mid-life career crisis the guys are going through mirrors the new challenges lorre and the other writers are facing as the tv landscape is changing, that is really interesting. As lorre found new ways to make tv and has a lot on his plate right now, I hope also the guys can find new projects in the future...anyway, not sure how the people at CERN will like to hear the LHC didn't give the ecpected results, lol!

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3 hours ago, mirs1 said:

Thanks for the link. It's an interesting take on the episode. Not really sure if that was just the journalist's interpretation, but if really the mid-life career crisis the guys are going through mirrors the new challenges lorre and the other writers are facing as the tv landscape is changing, that is really interesting. As lorre found new ways to make tv and has a lot on his plate right now, I hope also the guys can find new projects in the future...anyway, not sure how the people at CERN will like to hear the LHC didn't give the ecpected results, lol!

I think it's mostly the journalist's interpretation but I still wonder if there'll be some fresh wind in the TBBT writers room with the new showrunner and Lorry dipping his toes into new waters with his other projects and all that. Maybe they can snatch up a good idea or two and the guys reassessing their career paths could be a good start.

I wish we'd get more interviews though - I'm dying to hear what Holland actually has to say about his new job and what's coming for the show. Maybe when we're closer to the season premiere date?

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Feels like everyone has completely given up on promoting the show these days (even when major milestones take place), so I expect the same happening for the last two seasons. 

No, wait. Maybe we get something about the series finale.

Edited by nusspot
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6 minutes ago, luminous said:

A little information about episode 11.02 regarding Lenny:

Penny is supportive of Leonard during the whole episode. At one point they have a talk and Penny is comforting her husband.

So great to hear this!!, perhaps there is hope for season 11 after all. 

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On 8/25/2017 at 2:10 PM, Tensor said:

So, he's always wanted to be a manipulative jerk?   See, I could buy, and wasn't bothered by the early Sheldon negative reactions, just because it was his innocence, or ignorance of the situations that made it believable.   However, since his "organic" changes, his manipulative actions now have a darker connotation.    Organic changes would have included his becoming aware of what his actions were doing to others.   He's doing the same manipulative things, but he's doing them, even though he now knows better.  So, no, I don't buy the changes being organic.   I didn't start to dislike Sheldon until the eight episode of season 6.   As more and more episodes, after that, indicated he was aware, of his actions, it became obvious he knew what he was doing, and still went ahead and did them, just to be manipulative or to get what he wanted.  

Agree   Two instances come to mind:   Roommate Dissection - when he blackmailed Priya into getting the RM to benefit him  and Itchy Brain Simulation - where he was "diabolical" as Amy stated   If I had a best friend like this I would seriously consider the relationship.

On 8/25/2017 at 2:18 PM, hokie3457 said:

"....sometimes the baby wins"....

Think what also comes to mind is when he admitted to Amy that he got his drivers license but kept it a secret because he likes being chaffeured around....guess that is what he thinks friends are for!

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10 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Agree   Two instances come to mind:   Roommate Dissection - when he blackmailed Priya into getting the RM to benefit him  and Itchy Brain Simulation - where he was "diabolical" as Amy stated   If I had a best friend like this I would seriously consider the relationship.

Think what also comes to mind is when he admitted to Amy that he got his drivers license but kept it a secret because he likes being chaffeured around....guess that is what he thinks friends are for!

s_0282.gif.e61716165a6c4aac4a7bf5dc7eb3c2b1.gif

:blind:

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3 hours ago, luminous said:

A little information about episode 11.02 regarding Lenny:

Penny is supportive of Leonard during the whole episode. At one point they have a talk and Penny is comforting her husband.

You go girlfriend! Haha. 

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3 hours ago, luminous said:

A little information about episode 11.02 regarding Lenny:

Penny is supportive of Leonard during the whole episode. At one point they have a talk and Penny is comforting her husband.

That sounds great! I would love to see Penny comforting her husband, we rarely get to see this and when we do it shows that she is a part of this relationship as much as he is and is willing to make efforts for him, take that "he wore her down" jokes!

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