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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread

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6 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

Gravity had been one of the least researched field for ages.

This is incorrect.  It may have been least researched, experimentally, but there has been quite a lot of research and predictions, based on theory.

 

6 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

The main work we have on it os Einstein's general relativity which has remained unproven for years.

Unproven for years?    First off, theories can't be proven, only shown to be wrong.  However, evidence can and does support a theory.   That evidence was there as soon as Einstein completed the theory, the prediction that matched the drift of the perihelion of Mercury.   The orbital decay of  the neutron star binary,  PSR B1913+16, discovered in 1974, was predicted by GR, and the observed decay matched.  Matched so well, in fact, that the two discoverers, Russell Hulse, and Joseph Taylor won a Nobel Prize for their orbital decay prediction.  

 

6 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

We only recently found gravitational waves (one wave)!

Actually three, with a strong possible fourth just last month.  The interesting thing about the one last month, was we may have optical evidence for it, as this one was a pair of Neutron Stars, not a pair of black holes.   

 

6 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

The way my professor stated it...if from 0 to 10 our knowledge on quantum electrodynamics is 10 and on nuclear physicsis a 3 then gravity is a 0

Your professor is simply wrong.  If, as he states, our knowledge of Gravity is zero, then how exactly did we construct the specific instruments (LIGO,  Virgo and the other sites that are currently, and in the future, working to discover gravitational waves?)    The problem simply is and has been the weakness of the gravitational force.  This weakness makes it very difficult to do experimental work with gravity, because of the engineering required.  

 Many early particle physics detections were accidental discoveries, while looking for something else (the positron was discovered while Carl Anderson was looking for cosmic rays).   For years, there was experimental results, that couldn't be explained by the theory.   The technology to detect particles (which are simpler to detect) moved along faster than the technology to detect gravitational waves.  

In Gravity, the situation was reversed.  There was a theory which explained things quite well, but the technology to provide experimental results, wasn't available.   Hell, it took almost fifty years to find the Higgs, which was predicted by theory in the early 1960s.  

BTW, Quantum Field Theory (which includes QED) includes nuclear physics, so if our understanding of QFT is 10, then so is our knowledge of nuclear physics.    Our theoretical understand of General Relativity is on par with that of QFT.  Experimentally GR lags, but only because of the engineering problems associated with detection.  

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13 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

That is why I've never buyed that Leonard and Sheldon are best friends. It seems to be a friendship of convience for Sheldon.

THANK YOU! Leonard has been a total wimp 90% of the time with Sheldon. His speech to Professor Proton was touching, but it underscores the whole thing perfectly. He thinks Sheldon needs him and he needs to be needed. That is not Sheldon's fault. That is Leonard's fault.

13 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I thought that episode last season where Christopher Lloyd played a bum.

This was a totally stupid episode as I saw it and didn't fir ANY previous character makeup of Sheldon. Totally off for me. He went out with Amy under duress because Raj threatened him with a dirty sock but he was okay with inviting in a bum? That was just shoehorning in a guest start as I saw it. I wish they could have found a better way to use Lloyd.

12 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Ramona's come from there. I wonder if she'll have something to say ?

That could be interesting.

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I think it was quite clear in "The Maternal Capacitance" that (perhaps a big) part of the reason Leonard became friends with Sheldon is recreating his relationahip with his mother (by that I don't mean that he treats Sheldon as if he were his mother, but that he chose to be friends and live with someone who resembles his mother greatly). Part of what kept it for both him and Penny is, IMO, feeling empathy for his struggles and for Leonard wanting to help, feeling needed can be a major reward for someone with Leonard's horrible background. Sure, it's a sitcom so it's for laughs but if you consider all the things said about his childhood... the guy was emotionally abused. I do think however that it would have been great to see more of Leonard and Sheldon enjoying each others company. I really liked them being a team on "The Troll Manifestation" (even though Sheldon "barged" into the project).

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7 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think it was quite clear in "The Maternal Capacitance" that (perhaps a big) part of the reason Leonard became friends with Sheldon is recreating his relationahip with his mother (by that I don't mean that he treats Sheldon as if he were his mother, but that he chose to be friends and live with someone who resembles his mother greatly). Part of what kept it for both him and Penny is, IMO, feeling empathy for his struggles and for Leonard wanting to help, feeling needed can be a major reward for someone with Leonard's horrible background. Sure, it's a sitcom so it's for laughs but if you consider all the things said about his childhood... the guy was emotionally abused. I do think however that it would have been great to see more of Leonard and Sheldon enjoying each others company. I really liked them being a team on "The Troll Manifestation" (even though Sheldon "barged" into the project).

Also, what pops into my mind is the episoide "The Empathy Optimization" where Sheldon while being sick was his usual condescending self and generally being a pain in the ass, the gang decides to go on a bus trip to Las Vegas.  Sheldon goes on a self imposed apology tour just to ease his own mind and not really feeling apologetic to anyone, especially to Emily.  When he seems to give a heartfelt apology to Emily on the bus she kind of feels sorry for him.  Penny then states: "Now you see the problem"  meaning they always in the end give in to him.  Think this scene would have been better served if they did leave him home and not get on the bus.

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1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

THANK YOU! Leonard has been a total wimp 90% of the time with Sheldon. His speech to Professor Proton was touching, but it underscores the whole thing perfectly. He thinks Sheldon needs him and he needs to be needed. That is not Sheldon's fault. That is Leonard's fault.

This was a totally stupid episode as I saw it and didn't fir ANY previous character makeup of Sheldon. Totally off for me. He went out with Amy under duress because Raj threatened him with a dirty sock but he was okay with inviting in a bum? That was just shoehorning in a guest start as I saw it. I wish they could have found a better way to use Lloyd.

That could be interesting.

When I read the bold part I immediately thought about the Panty pinata episode where Sheldon hands out strikes to Leonard, Howard and Raj and they do nothing about it. 

Penny on the other hand revolts directly against Sheldon. 

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15 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Sheldon is still one part like Beverly, one part kid who likes games and some new parts and Leonard has his own issues still so... ...its not quite like your average friendship.

Sheldon is not quite your average 40ish guy. How many would watch sponge bob if there were no kids around?

 

I actually know a couple in their late 30s who do so.  One is an intelligence officer and the other a phd in theoretical physics out of the Fermi lab.

Einstein liked to watch the Beanie and Cecil puppet show on TV.

Besides, remember that that specific episode of Sponge Bob related to Sheldon's circumstances?

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

I'm still collecting DVDs of the Warner Brothers cartoons of the 40s and 50s.

They still set the standard.

15 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

That is why I've never buyed that Leonard and Sheldon are best friends. It seems to be a friendship of convience for Sheldon. 

It started out that way, but Leonard clearly means more to Sheldon than that after some time.  

"Please don't hurt my friend."

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

This is incorrect.  It may have been least researched, experimentally, but there has been quite a lot of research and predictions, based on theory.

 

Unproven for years?    First off, theories can't be proven, only shown to be wrong.  However, evidence can and does support a theory.   That evidence was there as soon as Einstein completed the theory, the prediction that matched the drift of the perihelion of Mercury.   The orbital decay of  the neutron star binary,  PSR B1913+16, discovered in 1974, was predicted by GR, and the observed decay matched.  Matched so well, in fact, that the two discoverers, Russell Hulse, and Joseph Taylor won a Nobel Prize for their orbital decay prediction.  

 

Actually three, with a strong possible fourth just last month.  The interesting thing about the one last month, was we may have optical evidence for it, as this one was a pair of Neutron Stars, not a pair of black holes.   

 

Your professor is simply wrong.  If, as he states, our knowledge of Gravity is zero, then how exactly did we construct the specific instruments (LIGO,  Virgo and the other sites that are currently, and in the future, working to discover gravitational waves?)    The problem simply is and has been the weakness of the gravitational force.  This weakness makes it very difficult to do experimental work with gravity, because of the engineering required.  

 Many early particle physics detections were accidental discoveries, while looking for something else (the positron was discovered while Carl Anderson was looking for cosmic rays).   For years, there was experimental results, that couldn't be explained by the theory.   The technology to detect particles (which are simpler to detect) moved along faster than the technology to detect gravitational waves.  

In Gravity, the situation was reversed.  There was a theory which explained things quite well, but the technology to provide experimental results, wasn't available.   Hell, it took almost fifty years to find the Higgs, which was predicted by theory in the early 1960s.  

BTW, Quantum Field Theory (which includes QED) includes nuclear physics, so if our understanding of QFT is 10, then so is our knowledge of nuclear physics.    Our theoretical understand of General Relativity is on par with that of QFT.  Experimentally GR lags, but only because of the engineering problems associated with detection.  

Theories can be proved...confirmed if you like it better (so it doesn't sound math).I fail to see where we disagree exactly since I meant experimental research,theoretical research has reached crazy levels these days.Fravity is still behind experimentally related to the other fields and this is exciting.About QED and nuclear physics,the issue is that what we predict about the first matches almost exactly with the experiment whereas in nuclear physics the measurements have an error of 300% and we are still happy about it...

6 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

You are entirely right. I completely apologise for giving the impression that I was correcting you. I was poorly making a joke using a pun. Sorry for the confusion. I was using "wave" in the hand waving sense and  pretending Gravity was a person. Plays on words are difficult to translate. Maybe it should have gone like this:

 "Gravity" waves its hand (like the Queen of Australia waves her hand from her carriage)

Science (again an abstraction personified) nods and says  "...'sup?"

It probably still doesn't work as a joke, but it was funny in my head. Again, I am remorseful for any distress or misunderstanding. 

 

Oops,didn't realise that :) I take stuff literally a lot

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3 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Also, what pops into my mind is the episoide "The Empathy Optimization" where Sheldon while being sick was his usual condescending self and generally being a pain in the ass, the gang decides to go on a bus trip to Las Vegas.  Sheldon goes on a self imposed apology tour just to ease his own mind and not really feeling apologetic to anyone, especially to Emily.  When he seems to give a heartfelt apology to Emily on the bus she kind of feels sorry for him.  Penny then states: "Now you see the problem"  meaning they always in the end give in to him.  Think this scene would have been better served if they did leave him home and not get on the bus.

I know some disagree but I think he did try to understand them better in that episode but he has a real difficulty seeing other people's points of view and understanding their feelings (that would be a difficulty in "theory of mind", this is something that usually develops in childhood, young children don't easily get that others feel and think differently than them. People with ASD tend to have such difficulties, to varying degrees of course).

I do believe, however, that they go with his wishes too much, in a way that is also bad for him. "The Hot Tub Contamination" is a good example - when Amy wouldn't give in to his schedule he compromised. That would be an advancement for him since he should learn to be more flexible to get along in life. There is research showing that parents accommodation (i.e., changing routines, enabling rituals, providing things for rituals, providing reassurance) to their children's OCD symptoms (which overlap, at least on the surface, with some symptoms of ASD, the bathroom schedule being kind of an example) is related to greater symptom severity and lower levels of adaptive functioning in these children. 

Edited by bfm
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1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

 

Besides, remember that that specific episode of Sponge Bob related to Sheldon's circumstances?

I remember there was speculation about that.

 So now we know that Amy gives Ramona a hug. Was it all a set-up?

Quote
 On 12/05/2017 at 10:56 AM, 2L344 said:

Plankton befriends Spongebob in this episode, pretends to like him and be his buddy, in order to convince him to share the secret formula for burgers with him. When that fails Plankton uses a device to control Spongebob to force him to give it up but Spongebob prevails in the end.

 

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4 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I remember there was speculation about that.

 

Thanks for digging this out! I remember that, too, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few Spongebob fans in the writers room! lol

4 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

 So now we know that Amy gives Ramona a hug. Was it all a set-up?

I think that is just to give the story some closure and not have everyone worry about an Amy/Ramona conflict in the upcoming episode.

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A totally different thing but I think it would be funny if Beverly could pay a visit to her son and daughter in law, but I'm guessing that Christine Baranski sadly isn't available. 

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16 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Ramona's come from there. I wonder if she'll have something to say ?

I  thought myself what Ramona would say about LHC. She also helped Sheldon with his paper on the decays of highly excited string states . Sheldon's interest also included heterotic string theory, particle cosmology (with dr plimpton) and later dark matter(he attempted to prove Penrose conjecture...). with Raj he investigated the something about gamma rays from the dark matter annihilation. I also liked Leonard's holographic display  . 

BTW I would like seeing Sheldon, Leonard, Raj, Leslie(would she still be with loop quantum gravity?), Ramona, Alex and Kripke  interact in Caltech cafetaria. Maybe even Dennis Kim . TBBT has had an interesting array of characters  in physics.   

Edited by serena_1995
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3 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

When I read the bold part I immediately thought about the Panty pinata episode where Sheldon hands out strikes to Leonard, Howard and Raj and they do nothing about it. 

Penny on the other hand revolts directly against Sheldon. 

So because Leonard is a wimp with Sheldon. And unlike Penny, has never revolted againgst the guy. We're once again excusing Sheldons behaviour are we? The fact Leonard and guys don't stand up to the big bully. Does not change his behaviour. How about Sheldon not be an asshole to begin with.

Edited by 3ku11
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3 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

Penny on the other hand revolts directly against Sheldon. 

On this topic, I think personally Penny was MUCH funnier when she and Sheldon were adversaries. In the beginning I liked her character the least, but it was great when she was telling him how weird and needy he was and he was telling her how dumb she was, and so on, I thought they had a lot better jokes going back and forth between them then. When they became good friends so much of that was lost. I can accept the fact that the characters can change but when Sheldon and Penny stopped having conflict between them I think something really got lost. Even in the beginning when they were trying to be civil, there was still hostility between them and that made for those great jokes, especially when he didn't want her around, but everyone else kept bringing her into things.

Penny used to call Sheldon out when it came to his eccentricities. This is supposed to be a comedy and there was great comedy in watching Sheldon contend with this interloper who came into his life and messed up his routine. Now that they care about each another there is less opportunity for comedy between them because there isn't that much conflict.  Yes, their friendship is kind of cute but cute is not the same as funny.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

On this topic, I think personally Penny was MUCH funnier when she and Sheldon were adversaries. In the beginning I liked her character the least, but it was great when she was telling him how weird and needy he was and he was telling her how dumb she was, and so on, I thought they had a lot better jokes going back and forth between them then. When they became good friends so much of that was lost. I can accept the fact that the characters can change but when Sheldon and Penny stopped having conflict between them I think something really got lost. Even in the beginning when they were trying to be civil, there was still hostility between them and that made for those great jokes, especially when he didn't want her around, but everyone else kept bringing her into things.

Penny used to call Sheldon out when it came to his eccentricities. This is supposed to be a comedy and there was great comedy in watching Sheldon contend with this interloper who came into his life and messed up his routine. Now that they care about each another there is less opportunity for comedy between them because there isn't that much conflict.  Yes, their friendship is kind of cute but cute is not the same as funny.

 

 

Well the source of all great comedy is conflict. Their is none of that anymore. Even between Leonard and Sheldon. So alot of the original comedy is gone now. So the show has really turned into a mediocre soap opera now. Hopefully Season 11 is different, but doubt it. 

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50 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

A totally different thing but I think it would be funny if Beverly could pay a visit to her son and daughter in law, but I'm guessing that Christine Baranski sadly isn't available. 

I think that's dangerous territory. She might just degrade and mock Lenny and praise Shamy. Hey, maybe she is a secret member of TPTB! 

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5 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

This was a totally stupid episode as I saw it and didn't fir ANY previous character makeup of Sheldon. Totally off for me. He went out with Amy under duress because Raj threatened him with a dirty sock but he was okay with inviting in a bum? That was just shoehorning in a guest start as I saw it. I wish they could have found a better way to use Lloyd.

Sheldon is an enigma. Seems like classic Christopher Lloyd to me. Especially this....

Something like....

 

Edited by djsurrey

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2 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

I fail to see where we disagree exactly since I meant experimental research,theoretical research has reached crazy levels these days.

Well, your statement simply said:

14 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

Gravity had been one of the least researched field for ages...The way my professor stated it...if from 0 to 10 our knowledge on quantum electrodynamics is 10 and on nuclear physicsis a 3 then gravity is a 0

There was nothing about experimental/theoretical and  When we have the precession of perihelion (and not just for Mercury, but for Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.  Venus is within error bars, but it's circular orbit makes it difficult to be accurate), multiple instances of orbital decays of binaries, and multiple gravitational wave detections, our knowledge is much greater than the zero knowledge you stated.  

 

2 hours ago, DoctorWhat said:

About QED and nuclear physics,the issue is that what we predict about the first matches almost exactly with the experiment whereas in nuclear physics the measurements have an error of 300% and we are still happy about it...

Yes, we can do one particle to great precision, but multiple particles require statistical mechanics, and our calculations are still within error bars.  Do you have a link showing where the calculations are 300% off?  I'm not aware of current calculations that are that far off.   

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49 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

On this topic, I think personally Penny was MUCH funnier when she and Sheldon were adversaries. In the beginning I liked her character the least, but it was great when she was telling him how weird and needy he was and he was telling her how dumb she was, and so on, I thought they had a lot better jokes going back and forth between them then. When they became good friends so much of that was lost. I can accept the fact that the characters can change but when Sheldon and Penny stopped having conflict between them I think something really got lost. Even in the beginning when they were trying to be civil, there was still hostility between them and that made for those great jokes, especially when he didn't want her around, but everyone else kept bringing her into things.

Penny used to call Sheldon out when it came to his eccentricities. This is supposed to be a comedy and there was great comedy in watching Sheldon contend with this interloper who came into his life and messed up his routine. Now that they care about each another there is less opportunity for comedy between them because there isn't that much conflict.  Yes, their friendship is kind of cute but cute is not the same as funny.

Yes, she was written previously as persisting in her resistance but now she is written as accomodating  and embracing Sheldon's authoritarianisms. She hopped on board the Sheldon train (he likes trains) when she drank the RA kool-aid.

Sheldon as written (iconoclastic, bombastic, and all about him) is popular and so the show ran towards his excesses rather than away from them. 

Luckily it's art.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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38 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Sheldon is an enigma. Seems like classic Christopher Lloyd to me. Especially this....

Something like....

 

Difference is with tbbt they casted Lloyd to play a bum. Lol come on man. I see your point. Similar portrayals from the two sitcoms. Writing is very different. 

In any case a great example of Sheldons outrageous behaviour. And having no excuse anymore. As he's "grown". And what's just as outrageous is how Lenny went along with it. And how they continue, well how all the characters continue to enable and allow Sheldon to behave the way he does. Which is borderline asinine these days. How well the baby ever learn, if he's not corrected? As past history has shown if Sheldon is not called out on his behaviour. He won't change his behaviour.

So I don't think it's just a matter of Leonard's a wimp. So it somehow negates Sheldons behaviour. This clearly runs true with all the characters. Even Penny these days. She was written as persistent and resistant. Now she's just their to accomodate the "winner" as they all are...

Edited by 3ku11
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13 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I think they missed a big chance when Penny was living with Leonard and Sheldon in 4A, it could really have been the clash of two worlds, the neat orderly world created by Sheldon with the chaos that is Penny.  Penny and Sheldon clashing about all his rules, while Leonard tried to be referee, would have been funny.  It could have been the catalyst to drive Sheldon to move in with Amy.

Also that one episode of Leonard in his underwear, burping, would have made more sense if it was Penny in her sweats, her hair in a messy bun, burping, with a beer in her hand while watching a Nebraska game and it was Leonard who wondered where all the magic went.

Yeah but that's would reaquire sense and effort. But they sold out of that years ago lol. 

 

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21 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I think they missed a big chance when Penny was living with Leonard and Sheldon in 4A, it could really have been the clash of two worlds, the neat orderly world created by Sheldon with the chaos that is Penny.  Penny and Sheldon clashing about all his rules, while Leonard tried to be referee, would have been funny.  It could have been the catalyst to drive Sheldon to move in with Amy.

Also that one episode of Leonard in his underwear, burping, would have made more sense if it was Penny in her sweats, her hair in a messy bun, burping, with a beer in her hand while watching a Nebraska game and it was Leonard who wondered where all the magic went.

Too bloody right!

They had something with the role reversal and poking fun at the patriarchy. This show was a little subversive at its outset raising questions like is it mandatory to be horny - is sex necessary - can you really survive following your dreams - science works - what the world thinks when short, smart men are genuinely found attractive 

Then, chasing their success they stopped leading and began following - printing money all the while. Hmmm. Good on them... I suppose. 

 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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19 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Then, chasing their success they stopped leading and began following - printing money all the while. Hmmm. Good on them... I suppose. 

Just moved on from story one with Penny dancing in the kitchen to story two Sheldon once prodigy becomes late bloomer.

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3 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

BTW I would like seeing Sheldon, Leonard, Raj, Leslie(would she still be with loop quantum gravity?), Ramona, Alex and Kripke  interact in Caltech cafetaria. Maybe even Dennis Kim . TBBT has had an interesting array of characters  in physics.   

Me three !

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