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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


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I guess maybe it's my fault for not really enjoying the show anymore I'm nearly 66 and when i was dating it wasn't considered funny telling you girl friend what she was doing for a living wasnt important. It wasn't funny telling your friends their relationship wasn't going to work out because you knew better
It seems the younger generations have a different idea of what's funny and what's romantic. After amy got sheldon the new computer and he told her to go home so he could Skype with her wasn't the least bit romantic to me this is all jmo

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Yeah, not cool and any day, time or age, still not cool. Justification for Sheldon actions to me is not funny. Them days are done. 3 years of growth and learning nothing is a no,no for me. Being socially awkward is not a carte blanche for him to make those hideous comments or unfeeling actions. WTF. He doesn't even care because it's all about his comfort.

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Yeah, not cool and any day, time or age, still not cool. Justification for Sheldon actions to me is not funny. Them days are done. 3 years of growth and learning nothing is a no,no for me. Being socially awkward is not a carte blanche for him to make those hideous comments or unfeeling actions. WTF. He doesn't even care because it's all about his comfort.

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When shamy broke up i posted that i thought leonard should make some snide remarks about it like sheldon did to leonard i got a few comments about how childish i was and how mean that was to sheldon

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18 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

The thing is that a large part of the audience has a preference for Sheldon so he headlines.

Jim playing Sheldon is why I kept watching from the start. I never cared about Leonard or Penny, Raj was pathetic and Howard was creepy to me.  But Jim's portrayal of Sheldon was unique.

 

Edited by Die Zimtzicke
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When shamy broke up i posted that i thought leonard should make some snide remarks about it like sheldon did to leonard i got a few comments about how childish i was and how mean that was to sheldon

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Haha. He is on the spectrum even tho tptb denies it. But he gets a pass. If you can't take It, don't give it, that's is my motto. Sadly tptb will let him give it, but not take it and will let him get away with murder.

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13 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Haha. He is on the spectrum even tho tptb denies it.

I have always said that. I have a son with Asperger's and he adores Sheldon. He used to say Sheldon was the only person on TV like him. Now, of course, there is the Good Doctor, where they at least admit it.

I have often wished that the other characters would call out Sheldon more. Leslie and Barry could do it and make it work. I don't understand why so many fans disliked those two characters. The others didn't have to roll over as much as they did. Leonard whined about it a lot but backed down most of the time when push came to shove. And Penny was the one who said he didn't have to move out when she and Leonard got married. That was ridiculous in my opinion.

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Problem with the character of Sheldon, as far his toxic personality goes. IS how much he has "developed". Back in the day when he was a jerk. OR made a socially awkward or innapropriate choice or decision, or said something. Like 3x02 When Sheldon blurted out how Lenny's first night was bad. Your natural response was like "Oh he is clueless, he knows no better". But now he has susposidley "Developed". And they have since Season 7 been going with the "He is becoming a real boy" narrative, majority of the mainstream seem to be enjoying.

Hence why a broader part of the audience are seeing more of Sheldon then they used to. It just becomes asinine. When Sheldon is a jerk. He is socially aware, he knows what he is doing is wrong. But he still says innapropriate things. I really loved JP unique portrayl Season 1-3. When he wasen't so comical or hormonal in personality. He used to play it straight. Vintage Sheldon if you well. I just have not liked him post Season 7. He is a narcissist yes. All the characters have been selfish at times. Sheldon can do no wrong though in some peoples eyes. 

As far as why you watch the show. I always watched for Leonard and Penny. But that is just me. 

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2 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Problem with the character of Sheldon, as far his toxic personality goes. IS how much he has "developed". Back in the day when he was a jerk. OR made a socially awkward or innapropriate choice or decision, or said something. Like 3x02 When Sheldon blurted out how Lenny's first night was bad. Your natural response was like "Oh he is clueless, he knows no better". But now he has susposidley "Developed". And they have since Season 7 been going with the "He is becoming a real boy" narrative, majority of the mainstream seem to be enjoying.

Hence why a broader part of the audience are seeing more of Sheldon then they used to. It just becomes asinine. When Sheldon is a jerk. He is socially aware, he knows what he is doing is wrong. But he still says innapropriate things. I really loved JP unique portrayl Season 1-3. When he wasen't so comical or hormonal in personality. He used to play it straight. Vintage Sheldon if you well. I just have not liked him post Season 7. He is a narcissist yes. All the characters have been selfish at times. Sheldon can do no wrong though in some peoples eyes. 

As far as why you watch the show. I always watched for Leonard and Penny. But that is just me. 

I watched the show for all of them bu Leonard and Penny are my favorite couple. Howard and Leonard are favorite characters   

Edited by MTBigBangTheoryFan
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8 hours ago, Carey said:

Under the assumption that you have made the statement saying " the ratings are down" is in regards to previous seasons, I think that is objective and the numbers are available for anyone to look at.  If they hold the same, better or similar percentage based on current viewership then the argument could be made they are down, unchanged or better than previous seasons. That is also objectve data available for review.  If the statement is they have less viewers because the quality is changed then (IMO) that is subjective  and based on personal preference, opinion or bias.  Lastly, if there is any objective way to evaluate quality it would be the ratings. (IMO) Most people do not waste their precious spare time participating in activities, marketed for entertainment, they find boring or in this case poor quality. 

I mostly agree with everything you say except for the fact that ratings do not objectively measure quality but viewership. Quality doesn't have anything to do with it, really.

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5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

That’s true for you - and Sheldon was particularly unique, I agree. He wasn’t so much the petty tyrant then but hey. I enjoyed the guy who didn’t react hormonally all the time.  Toddler adjacent Sheldon, not for me.

And now  the show is giving you more of Sheldon. The show has to compete across a broad spectrum. They can’t get all types so they engage more deeply with their base. It’s no longer about spread of appeal, it’s more about depth of engagement. So absolute merit doesn’t count. It’s to do with audience retention and just maybe growth. The show is getting old.

People like what they like and see what they see. I see Sheldon as a moral disaster with almost sociopathic disregard for the welfare of others. That aspect of his characterisation deters me.

Leonard was a bit of  a Boy Scout - and I liked that - then they knocked him down a peg or six and have left him  in a supporting role. They went  with what worked. It’s show biz.

 peace out 

edit. Wrt Sheldon.  If he had a diagnosis then I’d say different. I have kin with diagnoses. They get many passes. But as he doesn’t I assume he is exercising choices in his behaviour. If he is not able to exercise choice then what are we laughing at? The show has to ignore any medicalisation of Sheldon’s behaviour.

Sheldon meets the criteria for ASD but that does not excuse his behavior. His behavior is the results of his many traits, that includes his deficiencies as well as his strengths. Havinh ASD is not the cause of his mean comments. He has learned that you bring a hot beverage to a person who is upset, he can learn that you don't say those things to your friends even if he doesn't understand it in an emotional way. His deficiencies make him say inaapropriate things but other things make him think them and resist learning or behaving according to what he has learned. He might have ASD but he is also his own person. Besides, being an adult who knows about his deficiencies it is his responsibility to make an effort so that they do not hurt other people.

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10 minutes ago, bfm said:

Sheldon meets the criteria for ASD but that does not excuse his behavior. His behavior is the results of his many traits, that includes his deficiencies as well as his strengths. Havinh ASD is not the cause of his mean comments. He has learned that you bring a hot beverage to a person who is upset, he can learn that you don't say those things to your friends even if he doesn't understand it in an emotional way. His deficiencies make him say inaapropriate things but other things make him think them and resist learning or behaving according to what he has learned. He might have ASD but he is also his own person. Besides, being an adult who knows about his deficiencies it is his responsibility to make an effort so that they do not hurt other people.

And he does exactly that these days: make an effort to do better. Which is why I prefer him now than in the past where he was just a jerk who didn't give a shit. Idk how people buy into this "but he was clueless and innocent" nonsense as an excuse for his behaviour then. It didn't make things better, it just enabled him to continue not giving a shit.

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5 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I have often wished that the other characters would call out Sheldon more. Leslie and Barry could do it and make it work. I don't understand why so many fans disliked those two characters. The others didn't have to roll over as much as they did. Leonard whined about it a lot but backed down most of the time when push came to shove. And Penny was the one who said he didn't have to move out when she and Leonard got married. That was ridiculous in my opinion.

I'm also always a fan of when Sheldon gets properly called out on his BS. It's probably why Leonard sometimes annoyed me to no end cause when they still lived together he kept bending over backwards to accommodate the most ridiculous nonsense for no reason. Ugh.

As for Leslie and Barry Idk that fans dislike the characters. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of Leslie because the writers didn't really know what to do with her and the rebuttal towards Sheldon was literally just her calling him "dumbass". Sure, it was funny how that riled him up but I much prefer a proper science smack down like some that Shamy had and where Amy effortlessly verbally kicked his ass. lol

Anyway, both characters are not on the show because of actor availability so it's not like people voted them out because they disliked them. Currently Bert is in the "Caltech colleague that riled Sheldon up" slot although he's not as antagonistic as Leslie and Barry.

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2 hours ago, April said:

I'm also always a fan of when Sheldon gets properly called out on his BS. It's probably why Leonard sometimes annoyed me to no end cause when they still lived together he kept bending over backwards to accommodate the most ridiculous nonsense for no reason. Ugh.

Guess none of that really ever bothered me because I don't actually see the character and the outrageous things he says as real but more as a allusion metaphor for something like what someone might wish they could say at times. Not that they'ed ever do it. Not all his "BS" has worked that way but certainly the desire to stay home and work on something rather than go socialize. Well and other stuff.

On the other hand the roommate agreement , bathroom schedules... are just nuts.

Also with the addition of YS it appears as Sheldon is not on the AS but has issues that got significantly worse after he left home or perhaps after his dad died. He has something else that just presents and looks like a ASD. Since he is not real it does not have to be a real condition.

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1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

Guess none of that really ever bothered me because I don't actually see the character and the outrageous things he says as real but more as a allusion metaphor for something like what someone might wish they could say at times. Not that they'ed ever do it. Not all his "BS" has worked that way but certainly the desire to stay home and work on something rather than go socialize. Well and other stuff.

On the other hand the roommate agreement , bathroom schedules... are just nuts.

Also with the addition of YS it appears as Sheldon is not on the AS but has issues that got significantly worse after he left home or perhaps after his dad died. He has something else that just presents and looks like a ASD. Since he is not real it does not have to be a real condition.

I don't think YS should be taken to represent something. IMO, the kid does not seem to be Sheldon, I find it hard to believe he grew up to be TBBT's Sheldon. They want people to relate to him so they don't make him the way he was in early TBBT and TBBT flashbacks ("The Staircase Implementation").

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I don't think YS should be taken to represent something. IMO, the kid does not seem to be Sheldon, I find it hard to believe he grew up to be TBBT's Sheldon. They want people to relate to him so they don't make him the way he was in early TBBT and TBBT flashbacks ("The Staircase Implementation").

And therein lies the problem with YS, you cant make the horrible childhood he has described on TBBT funny.

So it has to be "sanitized" so humor can be found in it, in the process making it not TBBT Sheldons childhood and Young Sheldon not TBBT Sheldon merely a "reasonable facsimile"

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I don't think YS should be taken to represent something. IMO, the kid does not seem to be Sheldon, I find it hard to believe he grew up to be TBBT's Sheldon. They want people to relate to him so they don't make him the way he was in early TBBT and TBBT flashbacks ("The Staircase Implementation").

They don't write Sheldon as someone with ASD so it's no wonder they don't add whatever symptoms you want to see in little Shelly. They always had that philosophy so I'm not surprised they stuck with it. I would have been shocked if they suddenly went to write YS with an accurate ASD checklist in mind, tbqh. And while it doesn't match your preferred diagnosis it surely matches the general ambiguity of adult Sheldon's issues which can vary a lot as the plot demands it. Certain symptoms also may not necessarily meant to be seen as such, like the "avoids eye contact in a handful of episodes" thing you like to bring up which strikes me as a rare occurrence and could simply be chalked up to a bit of shyness from the writers point of view which in result doesn't make them think of that detail the same way you do. Simple as that.

23 minutes ago, JE7 said:

And therein lies the problem with YS, you cant make the horrible childhood he has described on TBBT funny.

So it has to be "sanitized" so humor can be found in it, in the process making it not TBBT Sheldons childhood and Young Sheldon not TBBT Sheldon merely a "reasonable facsimile"

Well, maybe they try to lure people in with a softer angle before shit hits the fan? lol

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It's early days to be comparing adult  Sheldon with child Sheldon.  As time goes on we may see some incidents that did not happen the way Sheldon recalls or how as a boy he viewed them at the time. That's where I think they'll get some of their humour.  If he didn't manifest many signs of ASD until adolescence that is perhaps something we're not going to be shown. I imagine it would be too complicated to write about him once he went to university. If the situation shown us in the pilot develops I'd say Sheldon's reaction would be nearer depression and that some of his obsessions would come out of that. Highly intelligent children can be very unhappy in the 'wrong' environment, especially if they have inclinations and  interests  that counteract those of people around them. It's not good when the brain and the rest of the nervous and endocrine systems are still growing. 

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9 hours ago, Carlos said:

I mostly agree with everything you say except for the fact that ratings do not objectively measure quality but viewership. Quality doesn't have anything to do with it, really.

As I said in my original post "if there is any way",  it would be the ratings, based on the fact people watch what they like aka find to be quality TV. There really is no objective way to measure quality,  beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

You  probably have seen or heard of "Naked and Afraid" I find that show to be ridiculous and stupid. I don't want to be clothed and afraid but there are people who love it.

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