[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread

[HeWolf]

On 10/13/2017 at 2:21 PM, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Becaue it was. when were you born? Lol the 1970s had All In The Family, Maude, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, Maude, Jeffersons, Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Three's Company, Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son,  Alice, Carol Burnett Show, The Waltons, Little House, etc,.

The 1980s had Cheers, Golden Girls, Growing Pains, Cosby Show, Family Ties, Night Court, Kate & Allie, Silver Spoons, Newhart,  The facts of Life, Matlock, Murder She Wrote, Magnum P.I,, Dallas, etc,.  While some of those may not be the best shows ever and some I not really a fan of they are all better shows than any that is currently on the air today. 

I was born in 1961 and spent many hours watching television in the 'Golden Age'. Some of these shows were truly cutting edge and deserve to be remembered as classics. Those would be: All in the Family, Maude, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, Carol Burnett Show, Dallas, Cheers, Cosby, Newhart, and some episodes of the others. Early seasons of The Waltons were truly great television. Later years were incredibly silly at times and about as classic as Charlie's Angels.

Others were mostly light weight programming; Happy Days, Threes Company, Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son, Little House, Growing Pains, Family Ties, Magnum P.I. and many others such as The Dukes of Hazard, The A-Team, and so on.

Looking back with a nostalgic eye is something we all like to do. But, as Billy Joel said, "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems."

TBBT would hold it's own in any era of television. It probably would not have been number one in a different era, but The Andy Griffith Show, The Beverly Hillbillies, and other classics wouldn't even get made today. For that matter, All in the Family would not get made today. Charlie's Angels wouldn't get made without putting bras on the women...

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by HeWolf

[serena_1995]

 

12 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Jim playing Sheldon is why I kept watching from the start.

Although , I stopped watching TBBT in season 11 ,  I  always liked Jim as Sheldon too. He  was a major reason I watched TBBT , since 2009 .  I didn't view Sheldon as a total villain , who needs to  be "fixed" and learn a lesson 24x7 like some do, nor  did I view him as a perfect flawless character to be put on a pedestal. To me,  he was just  a character who was.....who he was. He hasn't been as funny or interesting now to me, but I have my classics I  will always  re-watch. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by serena_1995

[bfm]

2 hours ago, April said:

They don't write Sheldon as someone with ASD so it's no wonder they don't add whatever symptoms you want to see in little Shelly. They always had that philosophy so I'm not surprised they stuck with it. I would have been shocked if they suddenly went to write YS with an accurate ASD checklist in mind, tbqh. And while it doesn't match your preferred diagnosis it surely matches the general ambiguity of adult Sheldon's issues which can vary a lot as the plot demands it. Certain symptoms also may not necessarily meant to be seen as such, like the "avoids eye contact in a handful of episodes" thing you like to bring up which strikes me as a rare occurrence and could simply be chalked up to a bit of shyness from the writers point of view which in result doesn't make them think of that detail the same way you do. Simple as that.

Well, maybe they try to lure people in with a softer angle before shit hits the fan? lol

Regardless of diagnosis I find it hard to believe that the YS kid grew up to be TBBT's Sheldon,especially when you think of early TBBT's Sheldon. Yes, the writers like to have the cake and eat it to, they depict Sheldon as someone who meets ASD criteria but don't diagnose him so they can enjoy the ambiguity of it. I can understand their reasons to not diagnose him but that doesn't mean that I'm not bothered by the kid version being too different. It's like having a kid Leonard who is confident or a high school Penny who knows a lot about Physics or comic books. It doesn't go with the character.

 

(BTW, the eye contact thing was in the handful of episodes where he is younger and meets new people. I don't see that Sheldon was ever shy but that's up to personal interpretation. Anyway I wrote a thourough post on how Sheldon meets the criteria according to what was seen and spoken in TBBT. I do not hang on a sole thing that happened in a handful of episodes. Not that it really matters, they will keep having the cake and eating it too).

Edited October 16, 2017 by bfm

[bfm]

6 hours ago, April said:

I'm also always a fan of when Sheldon gets properly called out on his BS. It's probably why Leonard sometimes annoyed me to no end cause when they still lived together he kept bending over backwards to accommodate the most ridiculous nonsense for no reason. Ugh.

As for Leslie and Barry Idk that fans dislike the characters. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of Leslie because the writers didn't really know what to do with her and the rebuttal towards Sheldon was literally just her calling him "dumbass". Sure, it was funny how that riled him up but I much prefer a proper science smack down like some that Shamy had and where Amy effortlessly verbally kicked his ass. lol

Anyway, both characters are not on the show because of actor availability so it's not like people voted them out because they disliked them. Currently Bert is in the "Caltech colleague that riled Sheldon up" slot although he's not as antagonistic as Leslie and Barry.

Well, Leonard has his many flaws too and these also have their background. He grew up trying to please his mother, always failing to do so and being called a faliure, a loser and many other names by probably most of the people around him. He was definitely not one to stand for his own, he's still not that good at that but he has improved. I think "The Maternal Capacitance", when we first saw Beverely, showed quite clearly that a part of his relationship with Sheldon is a recreation of what he had with his mother, the way the world worked for him in his childhood. Leonard and Sheldon were also supposed to be friends after all but TPTB, IMO, mostly failed to show that.

[Die Zimtzicke]

7 hours ago, April said:

I'm also always a fan of when Sheldon gets properly called out on his BS. It's probably why Leonard sometimes annoyed me to no end cause when they still lived together he kept bending over backwards to accommodate the most ridiculous nonsense for no reason. Ugh.

Thank you for saying this. I feel the same way.

[luminous]

 

[Carlos]

4 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Thank you for saying this. I feel the same way.

So then it is Leonard's fault for Sheldon being an asshole?

[Die Zimtzicke]

6 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Also with the addition of YS it appears as Sheldon is not on the AS but has issues that got significantly worse after he left home or perhaps after his dad died. He has something else that just presents and looks like a ASD. Since he is not real it does not have to be a real condition.

I didn't like the first ep and I have no intention of watching any more of it, although Sheldon was my favorite character for years. Zoe is wonderful as the mother and I see potential in Reagan as the twin sister, but nothing else about it appeals to me at all. 

8 minutes ago, Carlos said:

So then it is Leonard's fault for Sheldon being an asshole?

I didn't say that. I wish he just wouldn't go along with some of the more ridiculous things Sheldon does. I don't deny his speech to Professor Proton about why Sheldon is his friend was very sweet, but isn't very satisfying to fans who really analyze the show:

Leonard: Wow, you ask really hard questions. Look, I know he can be aggravating, but what you have to remember is he's not doing it on purpose, it's just how he is. But he's also loyal and trustworthy and we have fun together.
Professor Proton: You know you're describing a dog?
Leonard: He did bite me once. But in his defense, I came up behind him while he was eating.
Professor Proton: They hate that.
Leonard: Sheldon is the smartest person I have met. He's a little broken and he needs me. And I guess I need him too.
Professor Proton: Why is that?
Leonard: Boy, you will not let this go, will you?

Do you think Sheldon is not aggravating on purpose? That Sheldon is loyal to Leonard? That he is really the smartest person Leonard has ever met? That he needs Leonard and that Leonard needs him, too? It's not Leonard's fault that Sheldon is an asshole sometimes, but how Leonard reacts to him is in a sense Leonard's fault. And like Professor Proton, I can see why some fans won't let that reaction go all the time.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Die Zimtzicke

[brilliantfool]

I love Sheldon but I wouldn't treat people the way he does and I wouldn't tolerate a friend like him. That's why I don't get Leonard. Penny usually calls Sheldon out on his bs, as well as Howard. Raj less but he seems to care less. Amy's not exactly 'calling him out' but she's trying to change him in other ways (and it's working). Bernadette doesn't seem to care but when she does care she calls him out as well. But Leonard... why is he tolerating that? I just don't get it. I know the show made a joke by introducing his mom in S2 that she was exactly as demanding as Sheldon, but come on... He had a normal dad and plenty of other examples around him. I don't hate Leonard, but I definitely liked him more in earlier seasons when he at first would stand up for himself somewhat and after would just ignore most of Sheldon's rudeness, genuinely ignore without getting aggravated, but now he seems just passive aggressive often, and I wish instead he stood his ground.

[Tensor]

9 minutes ago, brilliantfool said:

He had a normal dad and plenty of other examples around him. 

Actually, he didn't have a normal dad.  His father was gone a lot on expeditions and when he was home, he spent a lot of time with the findings of those expeditions.  Remember Leonard complaining about his dad spending more time with the Etruscan boy, then with him?   I would also say, from his descriptions that Alfred was rather brow beaten by Beverly, which probably didn't help his relationship with Leonard.  So Bev was the major factor in Leonard's young life.  Not excusing Leonard, and I can understand your not getting Leonard.  I was specifically addressing your  comment about having a normal dad.  He didn't , based on what's been shown.

[bfm]

9 minutes ago, brilliantfool said:

I love Sheldon but I wouldn't treat people the way he does and I wouldn't tolerate a friend like him. That's why I don't get Leonard. Penny usually calls Sheldon out on his bs, as well as Howard. Raj less but he seems to care less. Amy's not exactly 'calling him out' but she's trying to change him in other ways (and it's working). Bernadette doesn't seem to care but when she does care she calls him out as well. But Leonard... why is he tolerating that? I just don't get it. I know the show made a joke by introducing his mom in S2 that she was exactly as demanding as Sheldon, but come on... He had a normal dad and plenty of other examples around him. I don't hate Leonard, but I definitely liked him more in earlier seasons when he at first would stand up for himself somewhat and after would just ignore most of Sheldon's rudeness, genuinely ignore without getting aggravated, but now he seems just passive aggressive often, and I wish instead he stood his ground.

His dad seemed like a nice guy when he was introduced but according to Leonard he was absent most of the time. He was bullied in school and by his brother. He says the only fond memories he has are of his Uncle Floyd. So no, I don't think he had plenty of other examples. He was treated as a total faliure by nearly everone he knew, or at least was in contact with on a daily basis. Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't tolerate Sheldon, but he is flawed. Also, if Leonard did not tolerate Sheldon they wouldn't have a show so... And it could be argued that taking a passive-agressive stance is being more active than ignoring. This aside, after all these years I can see why he gets more aggravated, he is sick of it... 

[veejay]

6 minutes ago, bfm said:

.....This aside, after all these years I can see why he gets more aggravated, he is sick of it... 

It's not just him.

[hokie3457]

7 minutes ago, bfm said:

His dad seemed like a nice guy when he was introduced but according to Leonard he was absent most of the time. He was bullied in school and by his brother. He says the only fond memories he has are of his Uncle Floyd. So no, I don't think he had plenty of other examples. He was treated as a total faliure by nearly everone he knew, or at least was in contact with on a daily basis. Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't tolerate Sheldon, but he is flawed. Also, if Leonard did not tolerate Sheldon they wouldn't have a show so... And it could be argued that taking a passive-agressive stance is being more active than ignoring. This aside, after all these years I can see why he gets more aggravated, he is sick of it... 

These reasons (and those provided by @Tensor above) are among the reasons that endear Leonard to me (and I would like to think to Penny).  Sheldon, despite what he says about what he was subjected to, had two people on site that were totally in his corner, Mary and his Mee-Maw (this is one of the the things that grate on me about his message to Howard upon his mom's death---Howard may have friends in his hour of need, but Sheldon had a great support system in his family.  The lone appearance by Missy as an adult shows her with love for her brother, even though she displayed typical sibling annoyance, which was, I am sure there when they both lost their father as children).  Leonard was alone other than passing appearnces by his father.  As far as we know, Uncle Floyd was not a daily visitor to the Hofstadter home.  Leonard is also a damage soul......

[mirs1]

5 minutes ago, veejay said:

It's not just him.

@veejay,I like your new avatar!

[spidergirl]

7 minutes ago, veejay said:

It's not just him.

Buddy, I tried to kill your avatar few seconds ago, LOL!!!

[veejay]

4 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

@veejay,I like your new avatar!

2 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Buddy, I tried to kill your avatar few seconds ago, LOL!!!

Nooooooo!     

Edited October 16, 2017 by veejay

[spidergirl]

2 minutes ago, veejay said:

Nooooooo!

I thought it was on my laptop screen, LOL! Actually, I love it!

 

[Carm6773]

4 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I was born in 1961 and spent many hours watching television in the 'Golden Age'. Some of these shows were truly cutting edge and deserve to be remembered as classics. Those would be: All in the Family, Maude, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, Carol Burnett Show, Dallas, Cheers, Cosby, Newhart, and some episodes of the others. Early seasons of The Waltons were truly great television. Later years were incredibly silly at times and about as classic as Charlie's Angels.

Others were mostly light weight programming; Happy Days, Threes Company, Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son, Little House, Growing Pains, Family Ties, Magnum P.I. and many others such as The Dukes of Hazard, The A-Team, and so on.

Looking back with a nostalgic eye is something we all like to do. But, as Billy Joel said, "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems."

TBBT would hold it's own in any era of television. It probably would not have been number one in a different era, but The Andy Griffith Show, The Beverly Hillbillies, and other classics wouldn't even get made today. For that matter, All in the Family would not get made today. Charlie's Angels wouldn't get made without putting bras on the women...

 

A fellow Wolf lover who can quote Billy Joel?  YAY!!!

[Tensor]

4 hours ago, HeWolf said:

 

Looking back with a nostalgic eye is something we all like to do. But, as Billy Joel said, "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems."

 

The older I get...the better I used to be...

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

5 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I was born in 1961 and spent many hours watching television in the 'Golden Age'. Some of these shows were truly cutting edge and deserve to be remembered as classics. Those would be: All in the Family, Maude, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Bob Newhart Show, M*A*S*H, Carol Burnett Show, Dallas, Cheers, Cosby, Newhart, and some episodes of the others. Early seasons of The Waltons were truly great television. Later years were incredibly silly at times and about as classic as Charlie's Angels.

Others were mostly light weight programming; Happy Days, Threes Company, Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son, Little House, Growing Pains, Family Ties, Magnum P.I. and many others such as The Dukes of Hazard, The A-Team, and so on.

Looking back with a nostalgic eye is something we all like to do. But, as Billy Joel said, "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems."

TBBT would hold it's own in any era of television. It probably would not have been number one in a different era, but The Andy Griffith Show, The Beverly Hillbillies, and other classics wouldn't even get made today. For that matter, All in the Family would not get made today. Charlie's Angels wouldn't get made without putting bras on the women...

 

Of course not all the shows I listed are on the same level of greatness I just ran off some shows I could think of from that time. There 'Great', 'Good' and 'Decent' shows and of course some bad Shows form those eras. The point I was trying to make was TV overall was better in 70s . Some shows that were successful or popular were so because they came on at the right time. If TBBT came on 30 years ago it would not have held up. It would have had a different cast obviously. The Networks would not have picked a lot of shows up that are on the air today 30 years ago. 

 

Cheers is a show that could not have picked up today I don't think.  Even if the show had the owner of the bar being sober they would not have picked it up and would not have lasted because people would accuse it of advertising Drinking Drunkenness and alcoholism. 

 

[luminous]

 

[HeWolf]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

The older I get...the better I used to be...

Slogan on my coffee mug, "The older I get - The better I was

1 hour ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Of course not all the shows...

Of course not all the shows I listed are on the same level of greatness I just ran off some shows I could think of from that time. There 'Great', 'Good' and 'Decent' shows and of course some bad Shows form those eras. The point I was trying to make was TV overall was better in 70s . Some shows that were successful or popular were so because they came on at the right time. If TBBT came on 30 years ago it would not have held up. It would have had a different cast obviously. The Networks would not have picked a lot of shows up that are on the air today 30 years ago. 

-- What from today would have made it then, and vice verse, could be debated until the next generation of shows comes out. This would be a purely subjective argument based upon each person's opinions. It is certainly safe to say that there are old classics that would never see the air waves and shows now that wouldn't have been made 20, or 30, years ago. Virtually nothing aired today would have ever been made back in the 1950's and 60s. Yet, there are many shows from that era that are regarded as television classics.

-- I just don't know if TV was overall better, or worse in the 70s. It's like arguing that the NFL, or MLB, was better in the 70s. Differing eras are hard to compare. People from the 70's would be shocked to see the violence, hear the language, and see the social concepts presented on modern TV. Yet, the 70s were the height of jiggle TV. Something that you do not see these days.

-- Another thing that has to be considered is the sheer number of programs in the modern era. The need to fill all the available broadcast time inevitably results in some shows being aired that are best described as garbage. This includes anything involving a Kardashian, a psychic, most reality shows, and a host of others... There were fewer opportunities for bad shows to make the airwaves in the 70s. So, there were correspondingly fewer bad shows that actually came on. But, let's not forget 'Joanie Loves Chachi'...

Cheers is a show that could not have picked up today I don't think.  Even if the show had the owner of the bar being sober they would not have picked it up and would not have lasted because people would accuse it of advertising Drinking Drunkenness and alcoholism. 

-- I don't know if that's a factual concept.  By that logic, 'Breaking Bad' should not have been picked up because it could have been perceived as advertising for the production and sale of meth-amphetamines. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by HeWolf

[Swedish Chef]

3 hours ago, veejay said:

Nooooooo!     

Really cool avatar @veejay 

[veejay]

6 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

Really cool avatar @veejay 

I'm just trying to symbolize my temporary confusion with our beloved comedy.

[Swedish Chef]

3 minutes ago, veejay said:

I'm just trying to symbolize my temporary confusion with our beloved comedy.

LOL, The funniest I've read today.