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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


Tensor
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3 hours ago, Tensor said:

Ahhhhhhh, The Dick Van Dyke show.  My top show of all time.   They ended their run after about 160 episodes, which for TBBT theory would have been right about the end of season seven (Maybe TBBT should have taken the hint).    For those who follow my ratings posts, The Dick Van Dyke show finished it's final season in sixteenth place, with a household rating of 23.6.   Last night, TBBT was number one with an 8.6.  Oh, and it won four  emmys (Best Comedy series, best actor (Van Dyke), best Actress, (Mary Tyler Moore), and best writing.  It was nominated for Best Directing (Jerry Paris, who also acted on the show), Best supporting actor (Morey Amsterdam), Best supporting actress (Rose Marie), and had another writing nomination.  Oh, and it was produced by Sheldon Leonard.   

4

I love The Dick Van Dyke Show also. It's is also one of my favorite Shows. I think one of the Greatest Shows of all time. MAry Tyler Moore will always b Laura Petrie to me. 

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On 10/15/2017 at 4:33 PM, 3ku11 said:

No ratings is not a determining factor when evalating quality. My point was Ratings are subjective. 

 How are they subjective ? They are numbers. From my understanding, I think 18-49 demographic ratings are more important to advertisers than total viewers.

speaking of which, I am in the U.S. and almost 24  but yet to watch first 4 episodes. I wonder if there is anyone  else here, who is in the US and in 18-49 age range and watching TBBT  ?? how representative of viewership  this forum really is . 

Edited by serena_1995
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27 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

 How are they subjective ? They are numbers. From my understanding, I think 18-49 demographic ratings are more important to advertisers than total viewers. I am in the U.S. and almost 24  but yet to watch first 4 episodes. I wonder if there is anyone here, who is in the US and in 18-49 age range and watching TBBT . how representative of viewership  this forum really is . 

My point is they are subjective. Because they dont = Quality. 

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12 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

My point is they are subjective. Because they dont = Quality. 

It never has been and it never will be.  Rating equal eyeballs on the screen. It has never been an opinion poll about the quality of the show. It's a headcount.

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11 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

My point is they are subjective. Because they dont = Quality. 

But that still does not make the numbers subjective.

The more I think about last night's episode, the more I realize how incredibly short the scenes are.

Reminds me of last season, when Leonard talks to Sheldon in the empty apartment, I thought that scene was going to be longer, instead, it's incredibly short, even though the conversation was pivotal to the characters and plot.  And Sheldon credited his talk with Leonard.  But we clearly didn't see a lot that mattered in that scene. 

Same for last night, it's like I'm watching film clips from an hour-long show, rather than the show itself.

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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58 minutes ago, vonmar said:

It never has been and it never will be.  Rating equal eyeballs on the screen. It has never been an opinion poll about the quality of the show. It's a headcount.

And eyeballs on screen have gone down every week this season.

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

My point is they are subjective. Because they dont = Quality. 

Numbers are not subjective. 20 for example is a fixed amount not subject to debate or interpretation.

Saying ratings are subjective because they dont equal quality is like saying they dont equal a color or a smell. They dont claim to measure those things nor are they inteded to, trying to make them do so is impossible.

Trying to make words like subjective (or canon) mean something they dont just so they support an argument is at best muddying the waters and at worst is intellectually dishonest.

Edited by JE7
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8 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I never saw the explanation that was cut, and didn't see any mention of it in the taping report.  It's as logical a reason for one of those rockets to explode as there is.

Those chemical engines aren't the most reliable things in the world. I've seen them fizzle and not provide enough lift to get the rocket off the ground. I've seen them burn unevenly and send the rocket off into a corkscrew. I've even seen one do nothing at all, which can make you very nervous about approaching the rocket. I have not ever seen one explode. Honestly, unless you sealed up the bottom of the thing to prevent the expulsion caused by igniting the propellant I don't think one could explode. But, who knows with one that old?

Well it has been 45 years but I think I remember seeing one and only one blow a rocket to bits. Not one of mine.

One explanation of what can go wrong:

Quote

from https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/152488-model-rocket-engine-failure-advice-requested/&do=findComment&comment=2863789
You mentioned they were stored in a basement that gets chilly in the winter.  They really should be stored in a constant temperature, as temp fluctuations can contribute to expansion of the paper casing.  This leads to separation of the propellant from the casing, causing gaps.  Once you ignite the engine, the flame front will propagate around to the gaps, and start burning more propellant than it's supposed to, leading to overpressure, blowing out both ends of the motor.

 

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8 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I never saw the explanation that was cut, and didn't see any mention of it in the taping report.  It's as logical a reason for one of those rockets to explode as there is.

Those chemical engines aren't the most reliable things in the world. I've seen them fizzle and not provide enough lift to get the rocket off the ground. I've seen them burn unevenly and send the rocket off into a corkscrew. I've even seen one do nothing at all, which can make you very nervous about approaching the rocket. I have not ever seen one explode. Honestly, unless you sealed up the bottom of the thing to prevent the expulsion caused by igniting the propellant I don't think one could explode. But, who knows with one that old?

Solid fuel rockets are notorious for blowing up if the propellant is cracked and 25 year old propellant is probably full of cracks.  What happens is the fuel burns uniformly till it hits the crack then the burn stops for a moment, when it then starts the burn again it ignites the rest propellant all at once resulting in an explosion.  

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9 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I disagree. Penny gets trashed all the time. It would be a welcome change. They could of done that instead of the tag at the end.

And you think Amy NOT gets trashed? 

I thought everyone in the show gets trashed, because that's in the show's DNA.

So why would trashing Amy a welcome change according to your post?

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7 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

 

True , but close friends complain about each other many times too. or find personality traits that are tiring about each other sometimes .And there is a difference between critical comments and cruel bashing. Beverly making critical comments  or observations  about everyone  would be welcome by me.. Doesn't mean she is supposed to be right though. 

They tend to go to mean stuff with Beverly. I wouldn't mind Penny listening and maybe saying some things to soften the blows but not being a full participant (so I was content with her getting amused by the word "doudy"). Amy is a good friend to her. Now if they were talking about Sheldon... (which would not happen because Bev loves him...)

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Ok, so 11.01 aired here. Except for one aspect I found it very enjoyable. Howardette were brilliant and L/P were funny and confident - completely in synch. The little byplay between Penny and Bernie was intimate and cute. “What were you thinking!”. I laughed.  Raj was something of a hoot and I found Stuart’s green jacket very intriguing. I thought it was a good start. 

 

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14 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

Beverly making critical comments  or observations  about everyone  would be welcome by me.. Doesn't mean she is supposed to be right though. 

Especially since she is so good at that. She's clinical and while it's often not nice it's direct and can have lots of potential for further storylines. Bev can be so funny.

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15 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Especially since she is so good at that. She's clinical and while it's often not nice it's direct and can have lots of potential for further storylines. Bev can be so funny.

She said that Howard and Raj were gay without even knowing them. She thinks her son, a brilliant Physicist, is a failure. She may be funny but she's not that good at capturing people. 

Edited by bfm
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7 hours ago, Tensor said:

And, so?  It's done that five of the last seven years.    And, if you count the double episode on the premiere of season seven as one (there were two, back to back), it's gone down six of the last seven.  So what?  Almost every show does the following, the premiere scores high, and it comes down for a few weeks.   It settles in in November - Feb, and then in March it drops when Daylight savings time starts. What's important, to the network, to the advertisers, is what is it getting compared to all the other shows on.  

You want a show that cratered, look at Empire.   It's first show ever pulled in a 3.8, it's finale that year, a 6.9 and averaged 5.09.   It's second year, it's first show had a 6.7, it's finale had a 4.1 and it averaged 4.42.   Last year, it premiered at 4.2, it's finale was 2.5 and averaged 2.75.   This year, it premiered at 2.4 and it's last two have been 2.0 and 1.9.  

In just over two years, it went from a 6.7 show rating, for it's 2015-16 premiere, to a 1.9 last week.   In the case of TBBT, it went from a 4.7 j, to a 2.9 it's third week, in the same amount of time(I don't have Empire's fourth week yet, so I'm keeping it to three, for a valid comparison).   Networks and advertisers would much rather have the decline of TBBT, as it's actually fell less than TV viewing overall, than a show like Empire, which has fallen to 28% of it's rating, while TBBT has fallen to 61%.    If they kept TBBT on, for another two years and it fell by the same percentage, TBBT would still be higher than the average new network program now.   In two years, this would be the 2019-2020 season, it  would have  a 1.8 rating, and that would put it in the top ten this year (tied with Will and Grace; and Modern Family which both had a 1.8 last week and Empire was only a tenth ahead of that.)   

And so? I never watch any of the other shows so their ratings are meaningless.

I will give you an offbeat example of my logic. Let's say my daughter got a D last semester in Physics. That's a below average grade. When I asked about it she said everyone else failed(an F) including her frIends Lisa and Dana. Should I be happy? Lisa and Dana to me compare to Empire or Will and Grace. I'm not Lisa or Dana's parents so I can't be concerned with them. Thus I'm not concerned with those other shows since I don't watch them.

Edited by Chrismo
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11 hours ago, vonmar said:

13.7 million people watched an 11 year old show...#1 again

For the live viewing, that's actually pretty darned impressive.

Edited to add:  For the live viewing of a show that papers television with repeats and whose first-run broadcast night changes as do the shows following it, that is really impressive.

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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11 hours ago, vonmar said:

It never has been and it never will be.  Rating equal eyeballs on the screen. It has never been an opinion poll about the quality of the show. It's a headcount.

Exactly. Rating measures viewership. Nothing more, nothing less. Actually, there couldn't be a more objective measure. What viewership numbers may mean to different people, that could be subjective, but not the ratings themselves.

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

And so? I never watch any of the other shows so their ratings are meaningless.

I will give you an offbeat example of my logic. Let's say my daughter got a D last semester in Physics. That's a below average grade. When I asked about it she said everyone else failed(an F) including her frIends Lisa and Dana. Should I be happy? Lisa and Dana to me compare to Empire or Will and Grace. I'm not Lisa or Dana's parents so I can't be concerned with them. Thus I'm not concerned with those other shows since I don't watch them.

I agree with what the ratings mean to you, but not the rest of your analogy. The only other valid concern is (for show runners and advertisers) if they can make money. If they can they'll keep on doing it. I would like to say artistic integrity is one of their main concerns too, but that ship sailed a long time ago and it's been MIA for quite some time.

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4 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Ok, so 11.01 aired here. Except for one aspect I found it very enjoyable. Howardette were brilliant and L/P were funny and confident - completely in synch. The little byplay between Penny and Bernie was intimate and cute. “What were you thinking!”. I laughed.  Raj was something of a hoot and I found Stuart’s green jacket very intriguing. I thought it was a good start. 

 

What was the one aspect?  ("Inquiring minds want to know....")

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

And so? I never watch any of the other shows so their ratings are meaningless.

I will give you an offbeat example of my logic. Let's say my daughter got a D last semester in Physics. That's a below average grade. When I asked about it she said everyone else failed(an F) including her frIends Lisa and Dana. Should I be happy? Lisa and Dana to me compare to Empire or Will and Grace. I'm not Lisa or Dana's parents so I can't be concerned with them. Thus I'm not concerned with those other shows since I don't watch them.

If everyone else failed the test might have been extraordinarily hard. Context matters because it changes the warranted attribution. If everyone else got their average grades than a personal attribution would probably be made, if everyone else got lower grades at the specific test most would think it is because of that test, if everyone who studied with a specific teacher got lower grades most would think the problem is that teacher etc.

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31 minutes ago, bfm said:

If everyone else failed the test might have been extraordinarily hard. Context matters because it changes the warranted attribution. If everyone else got their average grades than a personal attribution would probably be made, if everyone else got lower grades at the specific test most would think it is because of that test, if everyone who studied with a specific teacher got lower grades most would think the problem is that teacher etc.

I don't disagree with your logic. My point was more that less people are watching. I haven't heard anything for why less people are watching. All I have gotten is comparisons.

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