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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


Tensor
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Just now, vonmar said:

Was that her only scene in the movie?  Was there nothing else he could have showed them?

It would make it easier if we knew the answer to that, wouldn't it?   For all we know, that was her only scene, put there to show they didn't capture the killer gorilla.  Slasher movies have random victims, who knows here.  

2 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Laptop out the window.266e8e8aa44cabeba507092cfafbe8cc.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

I need a new on also.   My graphics card died, and it's attached to the main card.  It will take almost as much to fix it, as to buy a new one.  

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2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Then how would you explain her, as you say, bad acting in SAMSMK, so soon after doing a good job in "Streetcar".   

It appeared she was attempting to do a good job in SAMSMK but had an unsupportive director. It was SA1 that was shown on the ship so it is that early work that is relevant here.

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I think we all will have to agree to disagree on this , some of us see Leonard showing of the movie of Penny as nothing more than him proudly showing his girlfriend is a actress . While others think he was being insensitive ,unintelligent, low, narcissistic, unromantic , immature , both sides are just opinions . What I will say though is whilst Penny was embarrassed by the movie i'd doubt she care if Leonard showed it to people she will never meet, just like when he told her he'd sent bikini shots of her to his chess club she wasn't bothered .

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25 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

He said it during the shower scene. He elicited a reaction from the crowd and looked smug about it.

The way Penny delivered the line in the scene looked to me like Kaley was doing a convincing portrayal of bad acting.

 

 

12 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Oh really? Is it not possible she could do a good job in a play she thought was good material and a bad job in a movie she thought was junk. Also, is it not possible she got better over the years particularly if she had little training at the start?

The shower scene is pre 2007 possibly even 2003. Streetcar was 2013. Obviously Penny probably  improved in 9 years. The shower scene she may have been 18. Streetcar she was 27. I also think it's a difference  with the two movies. JMO the drinking on the boat crowd probsbly wouldn't of enjoyed something like Strretcar.

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1 minute ago, djsurrey said:

It appeared she was attempting to do a good job in SAMSMK but had an unsupportive director. It was SA1 that was shown on the ship so it is that early work that is relevant here.

But, but, but, 10.06 and how Leonard was supposed to be supportive.   Are you narrowing it down to just what you perceive to be  Leonard's reaction on the ship, and nothing more?    

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4 hours ago, Tensor said:

Well that's what I said, isn't it?   Other have a differing view of it, but to me, he was just surprised/shocked and didn't know how to react.   That still doesn't mean he wasn't a participant in it, not a willing one I'll grant you, but still a participant.  

I wouldn’t call someone who was robbed a participant in their robbery, nor a person who was assaulted a participant in their assault.  It’s an insult in any context where someone was unwilling or a victim, imo.

Is that being pedantic? Maybe. But posting assorted nonsense on the internet is kind of why we’re all here, isn’t it?

Anyway, the rest of my post wasn’t directed at you, since your position on the matter was otherwise clear. It’s just that quoting you was a jumping off point for addressing the opinions of the others that you referenced.

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3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But, but, but, 10.06 and how Leonard was supposed to be supportive.   Are you narrowing it down to just what you perceive to be  Leonard's reaction on the ship, and nothing more?    

:icon_cheesygrin: No. Preponderance of evidence.

I thought we agreed we thought he was most supportive at the beginning of the series.

I also thought if he was proud of her acting in SA1 he had a perfect opportunity to say so in 10.6. 

Also I was meaning Leonard is supportive by nature when he can be.

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3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

My two cents (which are worth, much, much less. In fact I owe.....).  I need to start by saying Sheldon is my second least favorite character. I really don't care for him much.  Here it is.....My opinion is that he did not participate in Ramona's kiss.  He was taken by surprise and did not know how to immediately react, but did just get up and walk out.  If he is to be faulted in anything in the situation it is (as usual) his ego.  Being adored by Ramona.  Being paid great attention to by Ramona.  Having Ramona spend an inordinate amount of time with him all stroked his massive ego.  Even when his friends, especially Penny, pointed out that it appeared that Ramona had motives that could best be termed dishonest toward Sheldon & Amy's relationship, his ego made it impossible for him to stop.

With all that, however, those of us who are fans of Leonard and the Leonard/Penny relationship have to swallow the fact that Leonard's actions in a slightly (only slightly) similar situation are at best murky. At worst not shining a positive light on him.  The "North Sea Snog" was clearly an attempt to bring angst in a cliffhanger where there was also a Sheldon/Amy breakup as well as C & D plot situations with Howard/Bernadette nearly asking Stuart to leave/move out and Raj/Emily firmly heading into rocky relationship waters. That Leonard could act this way toward of all people Penny, is on its face impossible to fathom (yes. Alice.  yes Dr. Stephanie. yes Dr. Slut-bunny. yes Mrs. Latham. we know the list. Those were each instances where he was separated from a Penny relationship). The pilot episode put forth the premise that the short, geeky nerd may have a chance with the girl across the hall.  That with all the ups and downs: the outward and known yearnings of him; the secretly deep love of him by her.  That while driving to an elopement this disclosure from him of all people that there was a drunken kiss was more than a shock it was a catastrophic occurrence that still shakes this particular ship through to its lowest decks.

That the comparison is made between the "North Sea Snog" and the "Ramona Repulsion" is, I suppose, only natural.  That only one is seen while the other is described two years later (and not recalled by a participant) adds fuel to any fire caused.  @RJ1013 , your example is clear and to me, again as a Sheldon hater (there, I said it) and one who adores Leonard and Penny) is one that makes much sense in a comparative way.

Just one of those things that I wish never happened (I recall being awake at 1:00 a.m. for the Season 8 final taping, and having one person attending post in the chatroom so quickly "Leonard cheated" and being completely devastated) and that I wish we could stop talking about-sort of like episode 4.24.  Oh well.  That is enough out of me.....

Thanks for the interesting post, @hokie3457. I know a lot of people here despise Sheldon, and you’re right that that’s why I led with the Penny example.

There was plenty of Sheldon ego at play in that episode, no doubt, and plenty of naivety too. I'm not saying Sheldon is some perfect hero, merely that what Ramona did was clearly wrong, and I don't see Sheldon as responsible for what she chose to do. As for listening to his friends, even when it appeared at first that he was ignoring Penny's advice, in the very next scene we find out that he did listen. In fact, it was less than 30 seconds into that scene with Ramona that he asked her if she had any romantic intentions.

I appreciate your explanation of how the nonsensical-boat-kiss-thing is a comparison that comes up for you. Hearing 'Leonard cheated' in chat must've been a real kick in the gut. It’s easy to see how the ambiguity of that storyline would annoy the crap out of everyone who is heavily invested in L/P, since those who aren’t can make it sound really terrible, regardless of what may have happened.

It was the girl who started it, if I remember right, and Leonard who ended it. I think it was Leonard (maybe Howard too) who called it ‘making out’, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Leonard was just being hard on himself, that a few seconds of shock and slowness to stop things made him feel guilty and describe it that way. It seems unlikely that he’d have been some super-active participant for all the same reasons you mentioned. Since it’s so ambiguous, I see no reason to think the worst of him, especially since the worst-case scenario seems so out of character. It could very well be that Leonard’s situation was much the same as Sheldon’s. My useless 2 cents.

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On 12/17/2017 at 10:59 AM, bfm said:

Lennys' not Lenny's.

Thank you. I am a lousy typist.

 

On 12/17/2017 at 12:52 PM, Lagernisse said:

The only way Lenny will be pregnant in my opinion, is if Kaley would get pregnant  

KALEY they would probably leave behind the kitchen island. If you think otherwise you have more faith in the writers than I do.

 

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5 hours ago, RJ1013 said:

I wouldn’t call someone who was robbed a participant in their robbery, nor a person who was assaulted a participant in their assault.  It’s an insult in any context where someone was unwilling or a victim, imo.

Is that being pedantic? Maybe. But posting assorted nonsense on the internet is kind of why we’re all here, isn’t it?

Anyway, the rest of my post wasn’t directed at you, since your position on the matter was otherwise clear. It’s just that quoting you was a jumping off point for addressing the opinions of the others that you referenced.

I agree with you in principle, but you have to consider also that a robbery or an assault cannot be equated to a kiss. In the Sheldon/Ramona kiss if I cared about Shamy/Sheldon I would have liked for Sheldon to react a little quicker. As far as the Leonard/Mandy kiss, we'll never know because TPTB never showed it, and retroactively muddied the waters.

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My personal opinion was Leonard was just proudly showing off his GF. IT is not the first time he has done this....

Leonard: Oh, hang on a second. Hold this. 

Penny: What was that for? 

Leonard: To show people when they don't beleive me

tumblr_mopc1yCLGw1rr72xvo1_250.gif

 

Look Leonard has always had low self esteem. And problem with self validation. So I understood when he was bragging the hot chick is his girlfriend. It made sense to me. Fine if others diddn't like it. 

 

If you think he was being immature fine. All the guys are immature. IT makes them endering. 

Edited by 3ku11
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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

My personal opinion was Leonard was just proudly showing off his GF. IT is not the first time he has done this....

Leonard: Oh, hang on a second. Hold this. 

Penny: What was that for? 

Leonard: To show people when they don't beleive me

tumblr_mopc1yCLGw1rr72xvo1_250.gif

 

Look Leonard has always had low self esteem. And problem with self validation. So I understood when he was bragging the hot chick is his girlfriend. It made sense to me. Fine if others diddn't like it. 

 

If you think he was being immature fine. All the guys are immature. IT makes them endering. 

Having low self esteem does not make it okay though, well for you it does but not for me. I like Leonard, I don't think there's even a need for me to state that, but I thought that was low of him. Of course Penny and every other character have their low moments too. It is all opinions at the end of the day. 

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

If you think he was being immature fine. All the guys are immature. IT makes them endering. 

Really? Thankfully some guys are not all their lives immature and surely there are women whom dont think it is endering. It is your opinion, as this is mine. What I quoted from your quote is not a fact, it is an opinion.

And the only thing I would like to add to this conversation is the characters represent real life bwhaviors. And some of those behaviors for much we love the characters , they are wrong or at least they lead to not nice situations. I would hate my bf show to strangers, even they were his work coleagues something that I would have hated to do or at least for some reason I would felt embarassed about. Spoiling your gf is one thing, treating her like a trophy is other but jmy opinion, course 

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The statement was " all THE guys" not all guys.

This is a comedy not real life, in real life lenny would pribably not have got together, Sheldon would live alone and work from home IF he hadn't been fired for his racist misogynist and just plain rude treatment of his co-workers and colleagues and Howard would probably be in a federal prison.

These exagerated behaviors are for comedy's sake that why we have to have suspension of disbelief otherwise it is all just ridiculously unbelievable 

 

Edited by JE7
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Oh ok, so that makes all difference the "the". Whatever...

For the comedy's sake is a question very dubious. Because some bad behaviors from some characters are for we laugh.  From others is almost a crime. Right...

Edited by spidergirl
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15 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Oh ok, so that makes all difference the "the". Whatever...

For the comedy's sake is a question very dubious. Because some bad behaviors from some characters are for we laugh.  From others is almost a crime. Right...

1. Yes it does

2. Dont even go there, i listed things about ALL the guys there was no bashing of an individual charecter in my post so there is no need to "defend" any particular one.

Edited by JE7
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26 minutes ago, JE7 said:

1. Yes it does

2. Dont even go there, i listed things about ALL the guys there was no bashing of an individual charecter in my post so there is no need to "defend" any particular one.

1. If you are implying about language, it does. Other way is matter for discussing imo. 

2. I am not defending anyone in particular. Actually I am one of those fans who can be constructive what is critics concerned about my favourites characters. I think I have made it a few times here but that 's okay.

And I am done with this conversation because I dont want fight with anyone, I just wanted to express my thoughts. Leaving you all ( or would be the all?) discussing your povs in peace. Have a great day, everyone. 

Edited by spidergirl
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Oh please is this still going on?Penny is/was an actress. All actors have done things early in their careers that they are embarrassed or not proud of. penny is no exception. I'm sure those actors other half at some point took the mickey out them, or their friends will. No big deal. Leonard has a hot Girlfriend, he is proud of her. So what if he want to show her off. And that is not treating her like a trophy.

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3 hours ago, spidergirl said:

Oh ok, so that makes all difference the "the". Whatever...

For the comedy's sake is a question very dubious. Because some bad behaviors from some characters are for we laugh.  From others is almost a crime. Right...

You need to take that up with the writers and producers. They will just smile, thank you and then continue on with the show the way they want.

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5 hours ago, spidergirl said:

1. If you are implying about language, it does. Other way is matter for discussing imo. 

2. I am not defending anyone in particular. Actually I am one of those fans who can be constructive what is critics concerned about my favourites characters. I think I have made it a few times here but that 's okay.

And I am done with this conversation because I dont want fight with anyone, I just wanted to express my thoughts. Leaving you all ( or would be the all?) discussing your povs in peace. Have a great day, everyone. 

The emphasis on "The" was to show that @3ku11 was refering to the characters, not men in general. Your reaction to his post was as if he were refering to men in general.

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