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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


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4 hours ago, Carlos said:

I mostly understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree with you. The reason the "the" makes a difference is because it means it's referring to just the TBBT guys and not all men. I don't consider them examples at all. Each of them has things I like and dislike, and in my case , at least, I fell in love with Lenny. That doesn't mean that I approve of everything Leonard has ever done, or for that matter Penny either. I agree with the poster who said that some behaviors are exaggerated for comedic purpose, and in that regard the only thing that really matters is if you find it funny or not. IRL the story of ALL of them (TBBT characters) would have been completely different, IMO.

And that's okay certainly. I did not say I was right about what I understood, but it was what I understood from all conversation I read, aside grammar, language, etc. There are times here that the frontier between "we are talking about the characters"/ "we are stating our opinion about something" is very thin. Certainly I was not the first or I will be the last doing that kind of miserstooding

Btw I would like to say I  try always to learn from my mistakes/ miserstoods and I always apology for them. I made my apologies yesterday twice if my memory doesnt fail on me. About the lesson I know what I should not do again.

 

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11 hours ago, vonmar said:

I worked at a mid-sized university in middle America that had a child care center on its property.  My children attended until they were old enough to enter the public school system.  Caltech has such a place..."The Children's Center at Caltech"...which takes children aged 6 months up to 5 years old.  I have assumed that Halley would be attending there.

Many child care centers such as these are very focused on early childhood development and stimulation.  They are also often used for training and observation by the university's students who are studying early childhood education.

That looked like a splendid place when they dropped Halley off there. It was cheerful, stimulating, well-staffed and only Bernadette could make anybody cry. :) Also, Howard was only a minute away if there was an emergency. I bet having the children of such brainy people to observe is fascinating. I've wondered whether Amy sometimes goes there to study the children's developing brains.

Here, some of the costs of putting a child in a workplace nursery can be set against tax. People on low incomes can get allowances towards paying for private childcare in approved places. 

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11 hours ago, vonmar said:

From The Re-Entry Minimization....lol  (one of my favorite episodes)

Penny: All right, that’s enough. (Draws)

Amy: Uh, hand. Uh, nail, polish?

Penny: Yep!

Sheldon: Wait, no, no. No. The word is Polish. See, look. Polish sausage. And the, the model of the solar system developed by Nicolaus Copernicus, a Polish astronomer. And then, finally, if that wasn’t enough, which it should have been, this is Madame Curie killing herself by discovering radium, who, although she was a naturalized French citizen, was Polish by birth.

Penny: Excuse me, the word is polish. See? Small P.

Sheldon: Ah. So it is. I guess we both share blame on this one.

Something that always used to irritate me about Sheldon was his jumbling of  capital and lower-case letters within words on his white board. I'm glad that has stopped now. Perhaps Amy pulled him up on it. I was glad to see when he wrote a note to Meemaw in YS about going to the hospital that he made only one mistake and it was one that anybody could make when writing in a hurry.

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23 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

My favourite line from the episode “You always go left!” The look from Penny/Ms Cuoco...

My favourite line was:-

Just warning you, I’m gonna go right. Don’t make a big deal out of it.

Penny's reaction to it was fantastic. :biggrin: 

 

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9 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Something that always used to irritate me about Sheldon was his jumbling of  capital and lower-case letters within words on his white board. I'm glad that has stopped now. Perhaps Amy pulled him up on it. I was glad to see when he wrote a note to Meemaw in YS about going to the hospital that he made only one mistake and it was one that anybody could make when writing in a hurry.

Can you post an example?

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51 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Something that always irritated me about Sheldon, was Sheldon. 

The wicked part of that is that he still engaged you. They’ll take irritation over indifference. I’m working on indifference because I can’t be that engaged with such an obvious clown. :) 

 

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25 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

The wicked part of that is that he still engaged you. They’ll take irritation over indifference. I’m working on indifference because I can’t be that engaged with such an obvious clown. :) 

 

Sheldon is like that wort that has always been on your body, it is irritating. But you have kinda built up an indifference over the years towards it :taunt:. I probably prefered Sheldon 1.0. Vintage Sheldon. His lines and Dialogue was much better too. Better then references to Poodles and Taylor Swift Lyrics. My fav of Sheldon was probably back in Season One.

Sheldon: "Okay look, I think that you have as much of a chance of having a sexual relationship with Penny as the Hubble Telescope does of discovering at the centre of every black hole is a little man with a flashlight searching for a circuit breaker. Nevetheless, I do feel obligated to point out to you that she did not reject you. You did not ask her out."

As with most of the writing in this series, compared to it's heyday, I found Sheldon alot more intelligent and sharper. As the show has, Sheldon has lost alot of his edge over the series. 

But that is just my perspective. 

 

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2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Can you post an example?

An example of the jumbling up of capital and lower-case letters like a four-year-old ? 'Fraid not. I haven't the foggiest about how to do that. Since he's moved to 4B he's stopped doing it. The episodes when he lived in 4A are on Netflix now. When I downloaded episodes to data CDs and played them with VLC player I could make screen caps but I have no idea what to do now. After Christmas I might have time to hunt out some old discs.

When he was nine he was confused between 'dad' and 'Dad' which was highly forgivable.

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

An example of the jumbling up of capital and lower-case letters like a four-year-old ? 'Fraid not. I haven't the foggiest about how to do that. Since he's moved to 4B he's stopped doing it. The episodes when he lived in 4A are on Netflix now. When I downloaded episodes to data CDs and played them with VLC player I could make screen caps but I have no idea what to do now. After Christmas I might have time to hunt out some old discs.

When he was nine he was confused between 'dad' and 'Dad' which was highly forgivable.

The white board usually had math on it. In that case upper and lower case is quite normal.

To find examples one can just enter tbbt white boards into google and click on images.

the-hamburger-postulate-10.thumb.jpg.bcdb6c7e3ce358615cca1cfe1172f3ef.jpg

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From The Math Stack Exchange

There are some common conventions (but by no means set in stone):

Areas and volumes often use capital letters, while lengths often use small letters

Bold letters are usually used to mean vectors, though some writers do not use bold for vectors, and others mark them in a different way

In linear algebra, a matrix is usually a capital letter

In calculus, small letters are usually used for functions, with a capital letter often reserved for a function which is the integral of some other function

In geometry, capital letters are usually used for points, small english letters for lines and small greek letters for planes (including ππ)

ππ is usually reserved for the number ππ in places where that number is likely to appear. In other places, it is used to mean a probability or a profit or a projection or a permutation.

small e is not a common choice for a letter in a scientific formula, because it can be used to mean the number ee. However in ordinary algebra it can be used for a coefficient, especially if you have already used a, b, c, d

 

We have to assume that TBBT consultant, Dr. Saltzberg knows his stuff.

<more in the link>

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As a former student of chemical engeneering, I had often to do Physics and Math calculus and from what I have seen from the show, they are usually accurate on these white boards. Curiously some teachers I  had, they  used more than a way to express vectores, for example,  but they always mentioned they could do because there are rules for that as @vonmar posted. The student could pick up the option it suited them as long as the equation or the calculus was right. The show had done a good job about that imo. They had failed more about contuinity of storyplots or about past stuff that happened to the characters that they forgot at present timeline but we got used to,   I guess. I wish we could see more Science on the white boards there though.

Edited by spidergirl
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11 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

As with most of the writing in this series, compared to it's heyday, I found Sheldon alot more intelligent and sharper. As the show has, Sheldon has lost alot of his edge over the series. 

 

I agree on this part. I think Sheldon has lost a lot of his edge. There have been some Classic Sheldon moments this season (e.g. his reactions to the Raj-Howard fight or congratulating Howard on Bernadette becoming like his mother), perhaps more than last year, which I liked, but overall I find him less sharp. I think a lot of it is an effect of the show going on for too long, so there was a lot of development, leading him to sometimes be "too normal" or "too settled". I'm not saying he should have stayed the same, but that the show should have already ended... In Lenny this prolonged run has gotten them stagnant.  Also the writers sometimes seem to forget some fears/eccentricities Sheldon should still have, like why would he want to have sex in another person's bed?! Or go to a public pool?! Or not senitize himself for hours after passing out on the toilet? Or be so smooth initiating sex instead of more...Sheldon?

Edited by bfm
typo
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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I agree on this part. I think Sheldon has lost a lot of his edge. There have been some Classic Sheldon moments this season (e.g. his reactions to the Raj-Howard fight or congratulating Howard on Bernadette becoming like his mother), perhaps more than last year, which I liked, but overall I find him less sharp. I think a lot of it is an effect of the show going on for too long, so there was a lot of development, leading him to sometimes be "too normal" or "too settled". I'm not saying he should have stayed the same, but that the show should have already ended... In Lenny this prolonged run has gotten them stagnant.  Also the writers sometimes seem to forget some fears/eccentricities Sheldon should still have, like why would he want to have sex in another person's bed?! Or go to a public pool?! Or not sentitise himself for hours after passing out on the toilet? Or be so smooth initiating sex instead of more...Sheldon?

The problem with that is Sheldon evolved too quickly instead of gradually. He was the same for 8 seasons, and then as soon as Sheldon got back together with Amy the writers went "Okay that's Sheldon done, he's got over all his fears in like a week and now he's nothing like he used to be"

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13 minutes ago, BobtheBlob said:

The problem with that is Sheldon evolved too quickly instead of gradually. He was the same for 8 seasons, and then as soon as Sheldon got back together with Amy the writers went "Okay that's Sheldon done, he's got over all his fears in like a week and now he's nothing like he used to be"

Well in Season 9. He freaked out when Lenny were going to move out. In the 2003 Approximation. So I am not sure he got over his fears completly. Sheldon lost his edge. Probably a writing issue. The writing has declined in this series obviousley. I am not expecting Sheldon to be exactly like he was. I like he has developed. But your probably right in saying he did evolve very rapidly. Therefore I think they isolate all his worst flaws. And alot of his sharp wit, and deadpan lines are gone now. I find things that were cannon are not anymore. Sheldon does not seem bothered to sleep in someone elses bed. 

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He's changed as do most based on life opportunities, challenges and experiences both joyful and painful. IMO it's a realistic portrayal of a character story or journey.

He met his friends which opened him up and allowed him to share similar interests. Then a woman moved in across the hall who pushed and tested him but also led again to new experiences and she became one of his closest friends and the one he turned to (and still does) for life wisdom.

He then met a woman with an intellect to match his own which he found instantly intriguing. Their relationship blossomed though at times he had to be dragged kicking and sceaming and it went at a glacial pace. She broke up with him because she wanted more commitment and more dedication to their relationship and after some time he realised he wanted it too so they got back together with them on the same page and wanting the same things from their relationship. You got him moving in with this woman and then deciding he wanted to make the ultimate commitment of wanting to spend the rest of his life with her.

Overall if I follow his life journey it makes sense and there is a logical direction to it. But the question is more have you liked, enjoyed or even supported how through experiences he has changed? For me personally it's a huge YES.

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He's changed as do most based on life opportunities, challenges and experiences both joyful and painful. IMO it's a realistic portrayal of a character story or journey.
He met his friends which opened him up and allowed him to share similar interests. Then a woman moved in across the hall who pushed and tested him but also led again to new experiences and she became one of his closest friends and the one he turned to (and still does) for life wisdom.
He then met a woman with an intellect to match his own which he found instantly intriguing. Their relationship blossomed though at times he had to be dragged kicking and sceaming and it went at a glacial pace. She broke up with him because she wanted more commitment and more dedication to their relationship and after some time he realised he wanted it too so they got back together with them on the same page and wanting the same things from their relationship. You got him moving in with this woman and then deciding he wanted to make the ultimate commitment of wanting to spend the rest of his life with her.
Overall if I follow his life journey it makes sense and there is a logical direction to it. But the question is more have you liked, enjoyed or even supported how through experiences he has changed? For me personally it's a huge YES.
The point the poster is getting at is nobody changes that rapidly. Getting over their fears and phobia so quickly. In fact people don't, they can control it to a certain extent but not really get over it. So to me it not a realistic change.



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10 hours ago, djsurrey said:

The white board usually had math on it. In that case upper and lower case is quite normal.

To find examples one can just enter tbbt white boards into google and click on images.

the-hamburger-postulate-10.thumb.jpg.bcdb6c7e3ce358615cca1cfe1172f3ef.jpg

I wasn't talking about maths ! I was referring to the mixing of cases within words. Maths does require different letters. There's often Greek ones in it too.

10 hours ago, vonmar said:

From The Math Stack Exchange

There are some common conventions (but by no means set in stone):

Areas and volumes often use capital letters, while lengths often use small letters

Bold letters are usually used to mean vectors, though some writers do not use bold for vectors, and others mark them in a different way

In linear algebra, a matrix is usually a capital letter

In calculus, small letters are usually used for functions, with a capital letter often reserved for a function which is the integral of some other function

In geometry, capital letters are usually used for points, small english letters for lines and small greek letters for planes (including ππ)

ππ is usually reserved for the number ππ in places where that number is likely to appear. In other places, it is used to mean a probability or a profit or a projection or a permutation.

small e is not a common choice for a letter in a scientific formula, because it can be used to mean the number ee. However in ordinary algebra it can be used for a coefficient, especially if you have already used a, b, c, d

 

We have to assume that TBBT consultant, Dr. Saltzberg knows his stuff.

<more in the link>

This is interesting, thanks. i wasn't talking about the maths or physics but about English words. 

9 hours ago, djsurrey said:

...and physics also has convensions like:

from http://jick.net/jess/hr/skept/Repres/node6.html

Table 3.1:   Roman symbols commonly used in Physics:
 
\begin{table} \begin{center}\setlength{\baselineskip}{1.5\normalbaselineskip}  . . .   . . . length{\baselineskip}{\normalbaselineskip} \end{tabbing}\end{center}\end{table}

 

Then they go into greek symbols...

Fascinating and helpful, thanks. If Sheldon could remember what what case to use for his equations, you'd think he'd have been able to write some ordinary words properly.

5 hours ago, spidergirl said:

As a former student of chemical engeneering, I had often to do Physics and Math calculus and from what I have seen from the show, they are usually accurate on these white boards. Curiously some teachers I  had, they  used more than a way to express vectores, for example,  but they always mentioned they could do because there are rules for that as @vonmar posted. The student could pick up the option it suited them as long as the equation or the calculus was right. The show had done a good job about that imo. They had failed more about contuinity of storyplots or about past stuff that happened to the characters that they forgot at present timeline but we got used to,   I guess. I wish we could see more Science on the white boards there though.

I agree about the accuracy of the equations. Every now and again I might even be able to follow a line. Am I really the only one who noticed that Sheldon used to write ordinary words that would have got a five-year-old kept in at playtime ?

It's just occurred to me that since scientists are in the habit of writing on boards using different cases according to the mathematics, their brain doesn't adjust to the conventions of language when they have to write in words.

Edited by joyceraye

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I agree about the accuracy of the equations. Every now and again I might even be able to follow a line. Am I really the only one who noticed that Sheldon used to write ordinary words that would have got a five-year-old kept in at playtime ?

It's just occurred to me that since scientists are in the habit of writing on boards using different cases according to the mathematics, their brain doesn't adjust to the conventions of language when they have to write in words.

Well about that I can say I know adults whose handwriting looks like from a five year old so for me it is an ordinary fact as any other. :)

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4 hours ago, Jonny said:

He's changed as do most based on life opportunities, challenges and experiences both joyful and painful. IMO it's a realistic portrayal of a character story or journey.

He met his friends which opened him up and allowed him to share similar interests. Then a woman moved in across the hall who pushed and tested him but also led again to new experiences and she became one of his closest friends and the one he turned to (and still does) for life wisdom.

He then met a woman with an intellect to match his own which he found instantly intriguing. Their relationship blossomed though at times he had to be dragged kicking and sceaming and it went at a glacial pace. She broke up with him because she wanted more commitment and more dedication to their relationship and after some time he realised he wanted it too so they got back together with them on the same page and wanting the same things from their relationship. You got him moving in with this woman and then deciding he wanted to make the ultimate commitment of wanting to spend the rest of his life with her.

Overall if I follow his life journey it makes sense and there is a logical direction to it. But the question is more have you liked, enjoyed or even supported how through experiences he has changed? For me personally it's a huge YES.

I strongly agree with this post.  I understand why some folks "prefer" early Sheldon.  I do.  But if Late Sheldon were like early Sheldon, he would not be funny - he would be an object of pity.  It would be sad.

To me, the progression is  logical one in terms of how relationships and careers naturally move, but also how many on the spectrum become more socialized.  In academia - in phd programs - it can be difficult to make friends because most students see their colleagues as competitors for jobs with key faculty, grant money, fellowship money, mentions in credits in reviewed scholarly articles, etc.  It can be tough to make friends.  When the series started, they were all just coming out of that environment.  So, it does not surprise me that Sheldon, Amy, etc. were socially so awkward.  Makes sense on a lot of levels.  The two threads of this show were the relationship between Leonard and Penny and the socialization of Sheldon.  From Day One, Penny started pushing his buttons and boundaries.  

The registrar office scene last week showed that while Sheldon has changed - he's still 'Sheldon'.  The inquiry about blood tests, mentioning syphilis, equating marriage with the Star Wars film, and wanting a hazardous materials disposal license - is all the 'early' Sheldon peeking through.  What a great scene.  

So many people say the show went downhill when Bernadette and Amy were introduced.  Different strokes for different folks.  As a huge fan of Penny, I'm glad she has some other women to talk to.  That move opened up a world of opportunities for her character.  And I'm glad we have a 'late' Penny that is an improvement over 'early' Penny, to my mind.  

Well said, Jonny!

59 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Well about that I can say I know adults whose handwriting looks like from a five year old so for me it is an ordinary fact as any other. :)

When you see that they have not been taught to hold a pen properly, the five-year old writing style makes sense!

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50 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I strongly agree with this post.  I understand why some folks "prefer" early Sheldon.  I do.  But if Late Sheldon were like early Sheldon, he would not be funny - he would be an object of pity.  It would be sad.

I agree with it, too. And some of the phobias I do not think were really phobias. And as much as I hate to bring it up since I stopped watching it, Young Sheldon had stopped eating solid food after a choking incident and went back to it after one lousy piece of candy, so they are possibly reinforcing that that's the way he always was. Not that I agree with anything they do on Young Sheldon because I find it boring as can be, but the eps I did watch didn't change as much canon as I feared they would as far as Sheldon's personality goes. I totally think that having friends and finding a woman who was suited to him on an intellectual level made ALMOST everything else (and I am stressing almost because he's still an ass to his friends quite often) about relationships click for him.

55 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

The registrar office scene last week showed that while Sheldon has changed - he's still 'Sheldon'.  The inquiry about blood tests, mentioning syphilis, equating marriage with the Star Wars film, and wanting a hazardous materials disposal license - is all the 'early' Sheldon peeking through.  What a great scene.  

I especially agree with the comment about the clerk's office scene. And his speech to Amy about getting married was very much like other speeches he's made about things that have mattered to him,

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1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I agree with it, too. And some of the phobias I do not think were really phobias. And as much as I hate to bring it up since I stopped watching it, Young Sheldon had stopped eating solid food after a choking incident and went back to it after one lousy piece of candy, so they are possibly reinforcing that that's the way he always was. Not that I agree with anything they do on Young Sheldon because I find it boring as can be, but the eps I did watch didn't change as much canon as I feared they would as far as Sheldon's personality goes. I totally think that having friends and finding a woman who was suited to him on an intellectual level made ALMOST everything else (and I am stressing almost because he's still an ass to his friends quite often) about relationships click for him.

I especially agree with the comment about the clerk's office scene. And his speech to Amy about getting married was very much like other speeches he's made about things that have mattered to him,

Yes, some of those phobias were just defensive walls or indulgences to see how far others would go to accommodate him.

Yes, some things click and some things don't.  Depending on the situation.  Amy has yet to have to hold up a "sarcasm" sign, but she, like Leonard and Penny before her, serves as Sheldon's translator to the Real World.  His "I know when I'm not wanted," followed by her quiet, "No, I don't think you do.." was classic Sheldon/P,L,A.

Surprisingly, I actually like "Young Sheldon" because I love Annie Potts and Zoe Perry.   I don't really think of it as being related to TBBT

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I just don't think Sheldon's character evolvement has been all that positive or realistic imo. They have thrown cannon out the window alot with Sheldon. Especially with his phobias. 

My point was not Sheldon having a girlfriend, or blending into society. I get you Shamys beleive Amy had a positive impact on Sheldon's life. And I am not denying that. My point was simply I personally prefered Original Sheldon. The Sheldon who did not blend into society. And refused to partake in any conventions. 

And simply the writing has lost its edge and intelligence. And I prefered alot of the edge Sheldon once had. He was alot more sharper with his wit. IT is almost like they have dumbed him down some what. And by exposing and isolating on his worst flaws. Sheldon has become unlikeble mostly. I prefered when he was playing it straight most of the time. But that is just my opinion. 

I just feel liked they stripped away most of the original Sheldon once he started commiting to Amy. I found Sheldon alot more endering and likeable earlier on in the series. And I Feel they diddn't need to change his character completely to mold into the perfect boyfriend. 

Edited by 3ku11
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