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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


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12 hours ago, April said:

What broke HIMYM's neck wasn't so much the last season but specifically the last, like, 5-10 minutes where they threw the whole show under the bus. If it weren't for the BS ending people would remember the show much more fondly - even with the last season cause at least then it would have had a purpose to the narrative. As long as Molaro & co don't pull a HIMYM ending they should be fine.

And well, being at the top of the ratings still shows that enough people like the show as is and it's ridiculously popular around the globe.

No need to worry about its reputation either cause it already has its own hatedom akin to an indie band that got mainstream success and now all the hipster kids complain that they sold out and they don't make music like they used to (lol) - so that particular train has left the station a long time ago.

TBBT is what it is and what it always has been if I may be so frank. Sure, it's a bit different because the characters evolved and the focus has shifted (see the screen time project) but better or worse is very subjective. To me it was never as sophisticated as people mad it out to be. It's a show that started with masturbation jokes, for goodness sake! I'd say "TBBT isn't Shakespeare!" but even he had plenty of dick jokes so that doesn't really work. lol

The last episode of HIMYM was of course the major catastrophe that pulled the whole thing into an abyss but the last season wasn't that well recieved. "Scrubs" could be an example of a show that didn't have a terrible ending but had a failed last season. IMO, "That 70's Show" also hurt its reputation with its last season. These two had major stars who left for their last seasons, it might happen to TBBT if they try to get passed season 12. 

And I think you are not considering many people who still watch but enjoy the show much less. I am one of those people and I know many Lennys are. We might watch it to its last episode but if things continue the way they are right now we will remember it much less fondly than we could have if it had ended earlier. 

And no I don't think TBBT is a very sophisticated, quality show, though IMO there has been a decline in the wit and richness of their dialogues. And it is more than characters evolving and focus (unfortunately, IMO) shifting. The stories are being repeated. I fear they don't have new and original things to come up with now (and BTW, the ventriloquist thing was actually done in Modern Family) then what will they do with more than 48 additional episodes?

Loved your hipster kids complaints analogy haha

Edited by bfm
typo

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27 minutes ago, bfm said:

These two had major stars who left for their last seasons, it might happen to TBBT if they try to get passed season 12. 

I really don't see that Johnny would sign for any more seasons beyond season 12 and I think if Johnny goes Kaley goes as well. 

I'm totally aware that WB and CBS want to milk the cow as much as it goes but would they renew the show if it only has about 7-8 million viewers per episode(I think we will have these numbers if the show continues to decline) in the end of season 12.  

 

Edited by Lagernisse

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41 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think @Mario D. meant that Penny could tell Leonard that what lead to her fooling around with Raj was her being heart broken over Leonard's serious relationship with Priya.

Ok then, my apologies for that. Although I think that talk would  had made more sense if it happened earlier. Jmo though.

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3 minutes ago, bfm said:

The last episode of HIMYM was of course the major catastrophe that pulled the whole thing into an abyss but the last season wasn't that well recieved.

Sure, it wasn't anybody's fave season but the audience knew it was the last and that it was finally building to the ending everybody was rooting for since day 1. If they had stuck the landing with a great end then a weak S9 wouldn't have mattered one bit to its reputation.

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

"Scrubs" could be an example of a show that didn't have a terrible ending but had a failed last season. IMO, "That 70's Show" also hurt its reputation with its last season. These two had major stars who left for their last seasons, it might happen to TBBT if they try to get passed season 12. 

Sure, if there are cast changes that would certainly hurt TBBT as well. So I hope that should it come that far that one or two of the cast don't want to renew I rather they cancel the show and wrap it up with S12.

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

And I think you are not considering many people who still watch but enjoy the show much less. I am one of those people and I know many Lennys are. We might watch it to its last episode but if things continue the way they are right now we will remember it much less fondly than we could have if it had ended earlier. 

There is no way to tell how many people actually feel that way. To be quite honest, among casual viewers I would expect most people to just quit and watch something else. Ain't nobody wasting their time with shit they don't like these days when you have so many other options. Total audience numbers are going down all across the board for a reason.

To my experience long running shows always have a certain subset of fans who complain about how things aren't as great as they used to be. So I'm not particularly worried.

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

And no I don't think TBBT is a very sophisticated, quality show, though IMO there has been a decline in the wit and richness of their dialogues. And it is more than characters evolving and focus (unfortunately, IMO) shifting. The stories are being repeated. I fo they don't have new and original things to come up with now (and BTW, the ventriloquist thing was actually done in Modern Family) then what will they do with more than 48 additional episodes?

Whenever I hear the complaint I can't help but think you haven't watched enough TV. lol

There is nothing new under the sun. And I really mean it. If you look hard enough you'll probably find enough examples of pretty much anything in some old sitcom or movie or cartoon or whatever. Heck, TV Tropes probably has a page about it with detailed information. If it exists someone else probably already thought about using it in their own creative work in whatever form that may be. Originality is an illusion. I'm personally not concerned with it at all cause it's an unachievable goal anyway.

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17 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I really don't see that Johnny would sign for any more seasons beyond season 12 and I think if Johnny goes Kaley goes as well. 

I'm totally aware that WB and CBS want to milk the cow as much as it goes but would they renew the show if it only has about 7-8 million viewers per episode(I think we will have these numbers if the show continues to decline) in the end of season 12.  

 

If CBS doesn't have anything on their schedule to replace it and this show is still holding up well viewing wise then they will of course want to keep it going beyond Season 12. This is really a discussion that can't be answered until say halfway through Season 12, I think we will know then if the show is going to come back or not for further seasons.

They may have to take a pay cut to do more. Viewing figures, talk of the show's legacy might help sell that idea to them. Anyway we shall see, at some point during Season 12 we will know if this is The End or not.

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kolobok_scratch_one-s_head.gif
n_030.gif.8b74239ee830b21b4248bc4bbc4822c9.gif
E: It's just Raj told me that a while ago, you two hooked up.
P: What?! Oh, why would he say that?
S8 - The Hook-Up Reverberation

I too don't think it is the last we hear of the hookup and might have happened again in season 10.
I think there was a reason initially for Raj moving into 4A. It was to cause more conflict for lenny and another cliffhanger of, if they did or didn't. All the signs from the second half of the season pointed to an explosive end season for lenny with all the unnecessary fighting. Etc and fans questioning why they are still together? I guess they thought breaking lenny up wouldn't bother the fan base. But for some reason they bottled it close to the end. I'm guessing they didn't have the bottle to go through with it, maybe losing a lot of viewers for good made them come to their senses and the risk of no way back for lenny, hence the finale. No lenny plot/cliffhanger because it was too late to come up with something different for them that late in the season, and probably Johnny threatening not to sign if they go there again. Remember someone who went to a taping said when kaley looked at Johnny to confirmed they were on board for the next 2 seasons, his expression was frowned and was not positive at all.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

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59 minutes ago, April said:

What broke HIMYM's neck wasn't so much the last season but specifically the last, like, 5-10 minutes where they threw the whole show under the bus. If it weren't for the BS ending people would remember the show much more fondly - even with the last season cause at least then it would have had a purpose to the narrative. As long as Molaro & co don't pull a HIMYM ending they should be fine.

The finale of HIMYM was brilliant. The show itself went on too long before it got to the finale. The show started out with Ted and Robin and ended with Ted and Robin. Obviously most people seemed to forget that. There is no point for telling the story if Tracy was still alive. Molaro can only fantasize the series finale is that good. That is why IMO the finale should be related to Lenny having a baby. They can have the Shamy wedding as a background story but the finale should be about Lenny. Anything else would be a disappointment.

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6 minutes ago, Jonny said:

If CBS doesn't have anything on their schedule to replace it and this show is still holding up well viewing wise then they will of course want to keep it going beyond Season 12. This is really a discussion that can't be answered until say halfway through Season 12, I think we will know then if the show is going to come back or not for further seasons.

They may have to take a pay cut to do more. Viewing figures, talk of the show's legacy might help sell that idea to them. Anyway we shall see, at some point during Season 12 we will know if this is The End or not.

I know that it is way to early to have this discussion about a renewal after season 12 but there is not much else to discuss at the moment, it is still this freaking hiatus. :shy:

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One of the things I admire about "As Time Goes By," is that the number of episodes filmed varies.  No doubt the availability of Dench and Palmer was an important variable.  But they never made more than ten a year.  That's a whole lot less of a commitment than 24.

Why should TBBT be 24 episodes per season in the future?  Most of them seem to have other projects they enjoy in addition to TBBT.

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5 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

One of the things I admire about "As Time Goes By," is that the number of episodes filmed varies.  No doubt the availability of Dench and Palmer was an important variable.  But they never made more than ten a year.  That's a whole lot less of a commitment than 24.

Why should TBBT be 24 episodes per season in the future?  Most of them seem to have other projects they enjoy in addition to TBBT.

Because UK and US series formats are rather different.

In the US full seasons with about 24 episodes were the norm although shows with shorter seasons are becoming a more popular model these days as well. TBBT though still stems from those old school times and I think they won't change the format now - maybe a shortened S13 if they go that far but so far they seem rather comfortable with the 24 episode format in terms of broadcasting and production schedule.

In the UK the whole process of producing such a show is structured a lot differently which makes 24 episode season a lot more difficult to realise. It's just how different structures have evolved in both countries.

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28 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The finale of HIMYM was brilliant. The show itself went on too long before it got to the finale. The show started out with Ted and Robin and ended with Ted and Robin. Obviously most people seemed to forget that. There is no point for telling the story if Tracy was still alive. Molaro can only fantasize the series finale is that good. That is why IMO the finale should be related to Lenny having a baby. They can have the Shamy wedding as a background story but the finale should be about Lenny. Anything else would be a disappointment.

I agree "Our child is smart and beautiful" has to be part of the ending.

5 minutes ago, April said:

Because UK and US series formats are rather different.

Yeah, they're different.  But US show schedules aren't what they used to be.  I was really surprised to see that they had 24 episodes a year.

Viewing patterns have changed - and TBBT does very well in flexible viewership - and some production patterns have also changed, but mostly in the field of drama produced by hbo, netflix, etc.  

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38 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The finale of HIMYM was brilliant. The show itself went on too long before it got to the finale. The show started out with Ted and Robin and ended with Ted and Robin. Obviously most people seemed to forget that. There is no point for telling the story if Tracy was still alive. Molaro can only fantasize the series finale is that good. That is why IMO the finale should be related to Lenny having a baby. They can have the Shamy wedding as a background story but the finale should be about Lenny. Anything else would be a disappointment.

The problem with HIMYM and Ted/Robin specifically was that the show and character development quickly outgrew this kind of ending. If the show ended after three seasons then sure, it would have worked. But not after 9 season where they repeatedly made the point that Ted/Robin are a terrible ship and both the mother seemed to be a perfect fit for Ted and Barney seemed a better fit for Robin. The way it turned out now most people list the HIMYM finale as one of the WORST EVER.

The equivalent of a HIMYM ending for TBBT is precisely not the "smart and beautiful babies" - it's Lenny getting a divorce, Amy dying for some reason and Shenny hooking up last minute. No thanks.

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13 minutes ago, April said:

The way it turned out now most people list the HIMYM finale as one of the WORST EVER.

Well, there's always Xena: Warrior Princess's horrific ending.  I didn't even watch the show and I heard about that one...

Edited by Capt. Hilts

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1 hour ago, April said:

Sure, it wasn't anybody's fave season but the audience knew it was the last and that it was finally building to the ending everybody was rooting for since day 1. If they had stuck the landing with a great end then a weak S9 wouldn't have mattered one bit to its reputation.

Sure, if there are cast changes that would certainly hurt TBBT as well. So I hope that should it come that far that one or two of the cast don't want to renew I rather they cancel the show and wrap it up with S12.

There is no way to tell how many people actually feel that way. To be quite honest, among casual viewers I would expect most people to just quit and watch something else. Ain't nobody wasting their time with shit they don't like these days when you have so many other options. Total audience numbers are going down all across the board for a reason.

To my experience long running shows always have a certain subset of fans who complain about how things aren't as great as they used to be. So I'm not particularly worried.

Whenever I hear the complaint I can't help but think you haven't watched enough TV. lol

There is nothing new under the sun. And I really mean it. If you look hard enough you'll probably find enough examples of pretty much anything in some old sitcom or movie or cartoon or whatever. Heck, TV Tropes probably has a page about it with detailed information. If it exists someone else probably already thought about using it in their own creative work in whatever form that may be. Originality is an illusion. I'm personally not concerned with it at all cause it's an unachievable goal anyway.

I think loyalty/habit is a factor, even with more casual viewers, but we can't really know that.

I mentioned the ventriloquist thing be because it was percieved as something original but it was done in Modern Family and as a beauty pagent talent... I don't expect them to do completely novel things but they got to the point of repeating their own stories.

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7 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Well, there's always Xena: Warrior Princess's horrific ending.  I didn't even watch the show and I heard about that one...

Yeah, there are a few series endings you see mentioned a lot in those lists: Dexter, Lost, Roseanne, ST: Enterprise... just to name a few. Now HIMYM has proudly joined their ranks! lol

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18 minutes ago, April said:

The problem with HIMYM and Ted/Robin specifically was that the show and character development quickly outgrew this kind of ending. If the show ended after three seasons then sure, it would have worked. But not after 9 season where they repeatedly made the point that Ted/Robin are a terrible ship and both the mother seemed to be a perfect fit for Ted and Barney seemed a better fit for Robin. The way it turned out now most people list the HIMYM finale as one of the WORST EVER.

The equivalent of a HIMYM ending for TBBT is precisely not the "smart and beautiful babies" - it's Lenny getting a divorce, Amy dying for some reason and Shenny hooking up last minute. No thanks.

I agree that the show went on too long.The Ted/Robin ship didn't work simply because Robin didn't want kids. The mother knew the closeness of Ted and Robin and made sure she was there for their wedding. The Robin Barney relationship worked because neither wanted any responsibilities. Their demise was Barney got sick of following Robin's career. Barney's tune changed when he became a father. The mother and Ted worked because they were a lot alike and didn't have kids. People not liking it was that Tracy died which shouldn't of been shocking since he was telling the kids their story. People seem to want a total happy ending instead of reality.

in regards to TBBT "the smart and beautiful babies" is equivalent IMO to Ted and Robin being together. Lenny getting divorced and Shenny hooking up seems to me goes against the storyline of the show. In regards to Amy I don't have a problem with Amy dying, I know others would, simply because Sheldon needing to be with someone was never necessary IMO.

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4 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I agree that the show went on too long.The Ted/Robin ship didn't work simply because Robin didn't want kids. The mother knew the closeness of Ted and Robin and made sure she was there for their wedding. The Robin Barney relationship worked because neither wanted any responsibilities. Their demise was Barney got sick of following Robin's career. Barney's tune changed when he became a father. The mother and Ted worked because they were a lot alike and didn't have kids. People not liking it was that Tracy died which shouldn't of been shocking since he was telling the kids their story. People seem to want a total happy ending instead of reality.

in regards to TBBT "the smart and beautiful babies" is equivalent IMO to Ted and Robin being together. Lenny getting divorced and Shenny hooking up seems to me goes against the storyline of the show. In regards to Amy I don't have a problem with Amy dying, I know others would, simply because Sheldon needing to be with someone was never necessary IMO.

I think people could have lived with Tracy dying - it would have given the ending a bitter sweet note but it was a popular theory anyway. What made people angry was exactly that the ending with the Barney/Robin marriage falling apart for some stupid reason and then Ted/Robin hooking up went against the storyline of the show - especially the later seasons. For most viewers the show was about Ted and the mother and not Robin. I guess if you're one of the few Ted/Robin shippers then surely the ending works. But after 9 seasons that relationship didn't work for most people.

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1 hour ago, April said:

Yeah, there are a few series endings you see mentioned a lot in those lists: Dexter, Lost, Roseanne, ST: Enterprise... just to name a few. Now HIMYM has proudly joined their ranks! lol

Dexter went downhill for me when a certain someone died, even if that season itself was very good IMO that was when it fell off a cliff. Though that series ending and that season itself come to think of it was terribad

Edited by Jonny

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5 hours ago, April said:

Well, it isn't about creativity or quality - those things are highly subjective anyway. What matters to TPTB at CBS is if it's still profitable and despite higher production costs and lower total ratings the show is still a pretty save bet for them. They will milk this for all its worth and they literally said that they won't let go of it as long as there's still money lying on the table. If TBBT keeps its position at the top of the ratings, especially when it comes to demo numbers, I'm sure they'll at least try to renew it again. Whether or not the actors would agree to that is of course a different question.

I agree with you 100 %. They will milk it for all it's worth, and we all know they don't have any artistic integrity, so they don't have that getting in the way. We, the fans, however care about the story , and the portion of us who doesn't like the state of affairs right now wishes it would end sooner rather than later. TBH, I wish it would have ended in S10.

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I agree with you 100 %. They will milk it for all it's worth, and we all know they don't have any artistic integrity, so they don't have that getting in the way. We, the fans, however care about the story , and the portion of us who doesn't like the state of affairs right now wishes it would end sooner rather than later. TBH, I wish it would have ended in S10.

Totally agree. Very disappointed when it was renewed. But a lot still watch hoping it will discover it's glory days when it was not the sheldon show, and things will change for the better. We as fans from day one know anit going to happen. There is going to be alots of disgruntled fans. Come end of the show. Hope it gets cancelled sooner rather than later.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

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I would like to see a thirteenth season, if only to pass Two and A Half Men (and My Three Sons, at 12 years, for second longest live action sitcom).  They could run a shortened season, say 13 episodes, to keep costs down.

I agree that the Raj leaving was rather abrupt.  It made me think that Penny was going to turn up pregnant in either of the last two episodes.  While that didn't happen, it does leave open the possibility for this year.   

From his long silence on coming back, when the others were talking about it, then his comments (about asking eh writers if they had more stories), and Kaley's reactions during tapings, made me think Johnny was seriously thinking about bailing.  I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the upcoming season.  Are there going to be more Leonard and/or Lenny stories, due to Johnny? We'll see.

As for HIMYM, I loved the ending.  Bringing the Ted/Robin relationship full circle with the French Horn was brilliant.   While they may have pushed the idea that Barney was a better fit for Robin, I never bought that.  The locket scene (along with earlier scenes between them), for me, cemented the idea that Ted and Robin should be together (along with Robin's comment about Ted, to Lilly, during her wedding day freak out, I though were her true feelings).   YMMV.  

 

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^^^Interested as well @Tensor. The body language and expressions caught in bts photos of JG spoke volumes. As one of the two leads of the show, I imagine he feels he has been ill-used for at least 2 seasons (I'd say 3) as well as suffering character assasination in 8.24.  His quality screentime in season 10 (IMO) has been surpassed by Mayim's. I think TPTB owe much to Johnny and to Kaley.

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3 hours ago, Jonny said:

If CBS doesn't have anything on their schedule to replace it and this show is still holding up well viewing wise then they will of course want to keep it going beyond Season 12. This is really a discussion that can't be answered until say halfway through Season 12, I think we will know then if the show is going to come back or not for further seasons.

They may have to take a pay cut to do more. Viewing figures, talk of the show's legacy might help sell that idea to them. Anyway we shall see, at some point during Season 12 we will know if this is The End or not.

CBS wants to make money. I like to be entertained. I don't care why they want to keep doing it if I don't like it any more, and as I've said I would have hoped they ended the show with S10 as its last.  I honestly don't see Johnny taking a pay cut to do more seasons. As it is, it looked as if he might not come back, and I can't blame him. There is also something called artistic integrity that the producers of the show should have, IMO. It has happened before: Games of Thrones has it (when they announced 13 more episodes after S6 finale) , TNG had it (when they decided to end it after S7). I know, I know Lorre is just not built that way and will bleed something dry right up until there is nothing left...

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My fear is that the Lenny fighting was TPTB's answer to Johnny. He spoke abot it in interviews as showing that there is more for the characters after marriage (although he wouldn't say anything bad about the show so this doesn't mean he is pleased with it). TPTB to me do not want to invest too much in Lenny and do not want to take them to their next step of starting a family or buying a house so they choose the easy way and write that fighting nonsense. I hope they will change things either because of Johnny or viewers (and interviewers) comments but the chances don't seem that great when you read Molaro's and Lorre's interviews.

Edited by bfm

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10 minutes ago, Carlos said:

CBS wants to make money. I like to be entertained. I don't care why they want to keep doing it if I don't like it any more, and as I've said I would have hoped they ended the show with S10 as its last.  I honestly don't see Johnny taking a pay cut to do more seasons. As it is, it looked as if he might not come back, and I can't blame him. There is also something called artistic integrity that the producers of the show should have, IMO. It has happened before: Games of Thrones has it (when they announced 13 more episodes after S6 finale) , TNG had it (when they decided to end it after S7). I know, I know Lorre is just not built that way and will bleed something dry right up until there is nothing left...

He could have walked away, he didn't. You have to ask yourself why. If he was/is as disgruntled with his character's storylines as many seem to think then he could and probably should have walked.

Maybe contrary to opinion on here he actually enjoys still working on the show? Or maybe he has almost 48 million reasons to keep doing it.

Unless you are a mind reader or he has actually told you himself we have no way of knowing whatsoever what he truly thinks.

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