[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread

[GivesAWhit]

2 minutes ago, chucky said:

Wow, I saw nothing there except her crush on Leonard. She wasn't in that many episodes, maybe 5 episodes?

You did not hear her speak of her famous father or Leonard's recognition of his name, express admiration for Leonard as a scientist, explain that she declined a prestigious post to work for Sheldon, invite Leonard to a lecture about which they were both excited, hear Penny complain that Alex laughed too much at Leonard's jokes, or Amy's analysis of Alex's flirtatious body language, etc., etc., etc.?

Watch the episodes again - there is considerable meat on those bones.

[bfm]

31 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

I agree that Penny's treatment of Leonard, like Sheldon's, is rooted in her own experience and issues. At times unforgivable, but nearly always explainable. She has gradually come to accept that her dream man is not what she expected, but is quite right for her - her bran muffin. LOL!

Another interesting thing is that Leonard has a very nurturing personality. He did not have the opportunity to express this before, but now he is "parent" in a sense to the two people he loves most. So his tolerance of their bad behaviour is IMO two-fold: He is accustomed to the treatment  which mirrors Beverly's treatment of him, yet he is forgiving as a father who understands the failings of his "children". 

This responsibility actually builds his confidence, because both Penny and Sheldon would be infinitely worse off without him.

I think both Leonard and Penny are and have been ersatz-parents to Sheldon for years. Leonard to Penny not really, but he is a compassionate person and tends to show understanding and tolerance to others' flaws. He is gaining acceptance by serving others' needs, sometimes too much on the expanse of his own.

[chucky]

Just now, GivesAWhit said:

You did not hear her speak of her famous father or Leonard's recognition of his name, express admiration for Leonard as a scientist, explain that she declined a prestigious post to work for Sheldon, invite Leonard to a lecture about which they were both excited, hear Penny complain that Alex laughed too much at Leonard's jokes, or Amy's analysis of Alex's flirtatious body language, etc., etc., etc.?

Watch the episodes again - there is considerable meat on those bones.

Not with her. The most action I saw from Alex was the episode that she went to Mrs Davis on Sheldon's sexual harassment remarks. Other than that, all I remember her is coming in and going out of a room with basically 1 or 2 lines.

[GivesAWhit]

2 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think both Leonard and Penny are and have been ersatz-parents to Sheldon for years. Leonard to Penny not really, but he is a compassionate person and tends to show understanding and tolerance to others' flaws. He is gaining acceptance by serving others' needs, sometimes too much on the expanse of his own.

Decidedly agree on the bold text, but Penny was horribly immature when she met Leonard. She still wants to dwell in the land of "young and fun", but she is getting there, thanks to the love, encouragement, patience and guidance Leonard consistently offers her.

[veejay]

8 minutes ago, chucky said:

I admit, she's beautiful and I love her eyes.

You know, that might be "SIRI" or (much better) "ALEXA"!

[Mario D.]

2 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think both Leonard and Penny are and have been ersatz-parents to Sheldon for years. Leonard to Penny not really, but he is a compassionate person and tends to show understanding and tolerance to others' flaws. He is gaining acceptance by serving others' needs, sometimes too much on the expanse of his own.

My take on this topic is that Leonard, Howard and Raj are not bullies to each other. They are like regular guys who bust on each other for laughs. A common occurrance with friends. Yes, sometimes it goes too far but i don't ever think there is malice there. Sheldon is another story. His insults and condesencion are hurtful, but the guys just shake their heads and let him rant. Even if they told him off he wouldn't get it that it is inappropriate, as he has done many times with Penny.  Speaking of Penny, her exploits as a teenager seemed like a bully and maybe they were but I don't believe they were to intentionally hurt someone. As an adult I think she has tried to mend her adolescent ways and I think Leonard has helped her with that. They are very compatible in that way and as Stuart said: "They make each other better and form one awesome person"

[GivesAWhit]

1 minute ago, chucky said:

Not with her. The most action I saw from Alex was the episode that she went to Mrs Davis on Sheldon's sexual harassment remarks. Other than that, all I remember her is coming in and going out of a room with basically 1 or 2 lines.

Ah, that explains your reaction. Understandable I suppose as she was clearly meant to be a temporary character. However, she was not only an interesting character in her own right, she brought out crucial aspects of the other characters as well. The latter was her chief purpose.

Very importantly, she was the slap in the face wake-up call Penny needed to see that Leonard could be attractive to other women. After the Alex interlude, Penny was a little less prone to expect Leonard to sit up and say bow-wow.

[veejay]

7 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

Decidedly agree on the bold text, but Penny was horribly immature when she met Leonard. She still wants to dwell in the land of "young and fun", but she is getting there, thanks to the love, encouragement, patience and guidance Leonard consistently offers her.

What’s wrong with young & fun?

..(oh, I see)..

[veejay]

27 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

You did not hear her speak of her famous father or Leonard's recognition of his name, express admiration for Leonard as a scientist, explain that she declined a prestigious post to work for Sheldon, invite Leonard to a lecture about which they were both excited, hear Penny complain that Alex laughed too much at Leonard's jokes, or Amy's analysis of Alex's flirtatious body language, etc., etc., etc.?

Watch the episodes again - there is considerable meat on those bones.

Yeah, she was longer notable only in one but also my favorite episode.
(The Egg Salad Equivalency)

[GivesAWhit]

21 minutes ago, veejay said:

What’s wrong with young & fun?

..(oh, I see)..

Sorry, the ay-ay-ay factor is wasted on me - she's not my type. See this is why you missed most of the Alex bio - Alex was fully dressed the entire time! LOL!

The state of Penny's own apartment, along with her glitter clean up reaction tell you right there who does the housework these days in 4A. I fully expect that most of any future child care chores would also fall squarely on Leonard's shoulders.

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by GivesAWhit

[bfm]

29 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

Decidedly agree on the bold text, but Penny was horribly immature when she met Leonard. She still wants to dwell in the land of "young and fun", but she is getting there, thanks to the love, encouragement, patience and guidance Leonard consistently offers her.

I don't disagree with this, just think their relationship does not have a parent-child dynamic (like Howard and Bernadette's has).

[Tonstar17]

I totally agree with@bfm. Penny was a bully as a youngster but not anymore.@GivesAWhit. So telling your friends you used to be a bully and laughing at it years later. (Is not cool,) does not make you a bully still. Sometimes you look back on some past mistakes  and even tho you know it not funny, you still can't help but find it funny when sharing the memory. Penny is not a bully now. I would say very pushy, compare to the others, but not a bully. I was never bullied at school and also not a bully myself and I don't condone bullying in any shape or form, that's why I would not back penny on what she did at school. I will defend adult penny on the other hand as there is little evidence on the show that she is a bully. The only instance that comes close is when she bullied the girls into doing her History homework.

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[bfm]

7 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

The state of Penny's own apartment, along with her glitter clean up reaction tell you right there who does the housework these days in 4A. I fully expect that most of any future child care chores would also fall squarely on Leonard's shoulders.

Just this season everybody tought that she wasn't able to care for Halley and she proved them wrong.

[Chrismo]

34 minutes ago, chucky said:

Not with her. The most action I saw from Alex was the episode that she went to Mrs Davis on Sheldon's sexual harassment remarks. Other than that, all I remember her is coming in and going out of a room with basically 1 or 2 lines.

Actually I think there was more in 43 Pecularity ( The Penny I love)- The scene in the cafeteria when Alex was flirting with Leonard.

[GivesAWhit]

31 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't disagree with this, just think their relationship does not have a parent-child dynamic (like Howard and Bernadette's has).

Yes, the parent-child relationship between Howard and Bernadette was really extreme at one point. It has diminished somewhat of late though, thank goodness.

While I agree that it is not as apparent with Leonard and Penny, Amy, Bernadette, Leonard, even Sheldon had fulfilling careers, were able to handle their finances responsibly, and kept tidy homes where they lived independently.

Penny, OTOH, expected stardom to drop from the sky and was sending underwear selfies to the utility company. The main problem was that Leonard was so eager to please her and knew she was quick-tempered, so he was always loathe to steer her too energetically towards adulthood.

Edited April 19, 2018 by GivesAWhit
Grammatical error - Redundant "was"

[veejay]

20 minutes ago, GivesAWhit said:

Sorry, the ay-ay-ay factor is wasted on me - she's not my type. See this is why you missed most of the Alex bio - Alex was fully dressed the entire time! LOL!

The state of Penny's own apartment, along with her glitter clean up reaction tell you right there who does the housework these days in 4A. I fully expect that most of any future child care chores would also fall squarely on Leonard's shoulders.

Oh, that wasn't my thought. Look, I refered to the cleanup procedure in general. But I'm old and...I hate to clean (well, the practice).

[GivesAWhit]

13 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I totally agree with@bfm. Penny was a bully as a youngster but not anymore.@GivesAWhit. So telling your friends you used to be a bully and laughing at it years later. (Is not cool,) does not make you a bully still. Sometimes you look back on some past mistakes  and even tho you know it not funny, you still can't help but find it funny when sharing the memory. Penny is not a bully now. I would say very pushy, compare to the others, but not a bully. I was never bullied at school and also not a bully myself and I don't condone bullying in any shape or form, that's why I would not back penny on what she did at school. I will defend adult penny on the other hand as there is little evidence on the show that she is a bully. The only instance that comes close is when she bullied the girls into doing her History homework.

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I offered my examples of ongoing disregard upthread, so we will cordially agree to disagree on this point. 

[Tonstar17]

I offered my examples of ongoing disregard upthread, so we will cordially agree to disagree on this point. 

And those examples were in the past when Penny was in her teens.

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[GivesAWhit]

16 minutes ago, bfm said:

Just this season everybody tought that she wasn't able to care for Halley and she proved them wrong.

She proved she could change a diaper, warm a bottle and put a baby down for a nap. My 10 year old nephew has managed that.

Gah, the grunt work involved with a toddler in the house is mind-boggling.  As a fairly new and very hands-on father, I don't see Penny embracing the ensuing workload with any degree of enthusiasm.

[GivesAWhit]

Just now, Tonstar17 said:

And those examples were in the past when Penny was in her teens.

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No Tonstar, the examples I offered took place in Series 6, 7 and 9. I didn't post any more than that to avoid being tedious.

24 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Actually I think there was more in 43 Pecularity ( The Penny I love)- The scene in the cafeteria when Alex was flirting with Leonard.

Yes, quite so. Thank you Chrismo, a very good example. A great deal of exposition took place in that scene, for one.

[Tonstar17]

No Tonstar, the examples I offered took place in Series 6, 7 and 9. I didn't post any more than that to avoid being tedious.

If i remember correctly, Penny was explaining how she was a bully in her teens in those episodes. How does that make her a bully now?

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[GivesAWhit]

15 minutes ago, veejay said:

Oh, that wasn't my thought. Look, I refered to the cleanup procedure in general. But I'm old and...I hate to clean (well, the practice).

My good fellow, we all hate to clean, and one is NEVER too old to ogle.  In a respectful manner of course. 

2 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

If i remember correctly, Penny was explaining how she was a bully in her teens in those episodes. How does that make her a bully now?

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She related how she recently laughed at the old man who fell and was unconscious. In Series 9, she callously blew Leonard off when he returned, excited, from a very uplifting session with Dr. Gallo.

[vonmar]

 

[Tonstar17]

She related how she recently laughed at the old man who fell and was unconscious. In Series 9, she callously blew Leonard off when he returned, excited, from a very uplifting session with Dr. Gallo.

Sorry, how are those instances bullying? Blowing off leonard was just plain rude and laughing at the old man falling is not bullying unless she pushed him.

bullying

use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.

"a local man was bullied into helping them"



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[Chrismo]

6 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Sorry, how are those instances bullying? Blowing off leonard was just plain rude and laughing at the old man falling is not bullying unless she pushed him.

bullying

use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something.

"a local man was bullied into helping them"



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That means all 7 haven't bullied anyone on the show?