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[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread


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2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Very little is known. Who can say he was silent? Perhaps he was outmaneuvered. Perhaps he trusted too much. 

He was absent most of the time and did not stop what she was doing. It wasn't hard to know what she was doing, she published it. He may have his reasons, he may have been threatened by her, may have difficulty standing his ground. Still, his behavior enabled the continuation of Beverly's abuse. This was a little bit called out when Leonard talked about his absence in priof seasons but ignored in the re-do episodes, which is kind of understandable given the event. However if they do bring him back I wouldn't like them to completely ignore that and make him father of the year. I think he is also mature enough to apologize to Leonard. They could have a short more dramatic moment of him apologizing in an otherwise comedic episode. They had this with Sheldon and George Jr. and with Sheldon and Mary talking about Geroge Sr. 

2 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

All we know well information from Leonard. IS he was just as afraid to confront Bev as much as Leonard was. And borrowed Leonards hugging machine. I don't think we can say without a shadow of a doubt Alfred enabled Bevs Abuse. No one knows for sure.

I am not sure I agree Bev was heartless. Sitcoms always have those characters. Penny was the Sitcom Slut. And Bev was that Cold and Distant Mother. Those roles work for comedy earlier on. i think Bev was a very clinical person. Look at how she was in her first episode back in S2 The Maternal Capacitance. She pretty much diagnosed Penny on the spot. So I am not saying Bev was not cold and distant with Leonard. I just don't think she knew how to articulate her emotions. And through out the series you've seen many examples of that. Lately she told Leonard he married the best out of his siblings. 

Leonard had talked about his mother not giving him affection or even the slightest hint of joining in his feelings, even when he was a toddler. Complimeting him on Penny...He was willing to take this but that was barely a compliment to him. 

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31 minutes ago, bfm said:

Leonard had talked about his mother not giving him affection or even the slightest hint of joining in his feelings, even when he was a toddler. Complimeting him on Penny...He was willing to take this but that was barely a compliment to him. 

I agree. As usual, however, there is a fine line between a credible story and the comic outbursts intended by the writers.
Btw, I love these little scenes like above. They show me Lenny's confidentiality within her statements and small gestures.
Oops, I’m a fanboy now!?  :shy:

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17 minutes ago, veejay said:

I agree. As usual, however, there is a fine line between a credible story and the comic outbursts intended by the writers.
Btw, I love these little scenes like above. They show me Lenny's confidentiality within her statements and small gestures.
Oops, I’m a fanboy now!?  :shy:

On your italicized point, I so strongly agree @veejay ! There are so many examples that are tiny points of their intense love. I go on and on about The Closet Reconfiguration, but it’s a prime example. The scene with the bounce house this season is another. Standing facing each other, holding both hands. The look of complete love they are giving each other is an amazing thing. Final example: somewhere yesterday someone posted a gif of the scene on the party bus and the way P was looking at L was one I hadn’t noticed before. Again it was a look of total love and admiration. They are deeply in love. Sometimes you just need to block out ALL the other noise and look. 

Yup. Another fanboy here!!!

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IMHO,there will never be any type of bonding between Leonard and Beverly. That ship has sailed! He'll leave that bonding to Penny. Beverly has never shown any feelings or affection whatsoever for Leonard, thus the need for the "Hugging Machine".

Edited by chucky
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2 hours ago, veejay said:

I agree. As usual, however, there is a fine line between a credible story and the comic outbursts intended by the writers.
Btw, I love these little scenes like above. They show me Lenny's confidentiality within her statements and small gestures.
Oops, I’m a fanboy now!?  :shy:

You can make comedy while still calling out inappropriate behavior. "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" is a prime example. 

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4 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

On your italicized point, I so strongly agree @veejay ! There are so many examples that are tiny points of their intense love. I go on and on about The Closet Reconfiguration, but it’s a prime example. The scene with the bounce house this season is another. Standing facing each other, holding both hands. The look of complete love they are giving each other is an amazing thing. Final example: somewhere yesterday someone posted a gif of the scene on the party bus and the way P was looking at L was one I hadn’t noticed before. Again it was a look of total love and admiration. They are deeply in love. Sometimes you just need to block out ALL the other noise and look. 

Yup. Another fanboy here!!!

Yes. KC is so brilliant at this (as at so much else). She always brightens up a scene just by being there, even if she doesn't have any lines. She's the only star actress on the show.

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14 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Yes. KC is so brilliant at this (as at so much else). She always brightens up a scene just by being there, even if she doesn't have any lines. She's the only star actress on the show.

I wouldn't deny that. :icon_cheesygrin:

c_0074.gif.9d7e157bd81cc8fef6b20c04cdc5ab45.gif

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1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

Yes. KC is so brilliant at this (as at so much else). She always brightens up a scene just by being there, even if she doesn't have any lines. She's the only star actress on the show.

So very true!

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9 hours ago, chucky said:

IMHO,there will never be any type of bonding between Leonard and Beverly. That ship has sailed! He'll leave that bonding to Penny. Beverly has never shown any feelings or affection whatsoever for Leonard, thus the need for the "Hugging Machine".

Maybe not completely but there was a little breakthrough when she told him that he married well and was proud of him for that.  My wife suggests that Beverly should meet Dr.Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek)  That would be a  very interesting meeting.

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6 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Maybe not completely but there was a little breakthrough when she told him that he married well and was proud of him for that. 

Too little too late. At most that was just a bandage!

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11 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Maybe not completely but there was a little breakthrough when she told him that he married well and was proud of him for that.  My wife suggests that Beverly should meet Dr.Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek)  That would be a  very interesting meeting.

I'd guess Beverly is aware of the many many many who disagree with her, but rejects their claims and finding with some poor rigid claims.

Edited by bfm
typo
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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I'd guess Beverlyis aware of the many many many who disagree with her, but rejects their claims and finding with some poor rigid claims.

She is, after all, an older female version of Sheldon Cooper.  8)

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5 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

They get on well and Penny has got them both drunk.

Getting people drunk is quite possibly Mrs Penny Hofstadter's super power.  :sungum:

Edited by chucky
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On 6/29/2018 at 2:32 AM, 3ku11 said:

Lately she told Leonard he married the best out of his siblings. 

Yeah, after all his accomplishments, she's only proud that he married Penny, her home girl.

On 6/29/2018 at 4:35 AM, bfm said:

Still, his behavior enabled the continuation of Beverly's abuse.

I think not. In any regard, Leonard has gotten over what ever failings his father may have had. Leonard's interactions with Alfred in 9/24 and 10/1 proved that. But Leonard is still estranged with Beverly. Penny gets along nicely with both Leonard's parents, as does Leonard with Penny's parents.

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On 6/29/2018 at 3:33 AM, hokie3457 said:

On your italicized point, I so strongly agree @veejay ! There are so many examples that are tiny points of their intense love. I go on and on about The Closet Reconfiguration, but it’s a prime example. The scene with the bounce house this season is another. Standing facing each other, holding both hands. The look of complete love they are giving each other is an amazing thing. Final example: somewhere yesterday someone posted a gif of the scene on the party bus and the way P was looking at L was one I hadn’t noticed before. Again it was a look of total love and admiration. They are deeply in love. Sometimes you just need to block out ALL the other noise and look. 

Yup. Another fanboy here!!!

hmmmm

d90b57bbf1f4b5bc9e2e8d077494b95b--big-ba

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40 minutes ago, chucky said:

Yeah, after all his accomplishments, she's only proud that he married Penny, her home girl.

I think not. In any regard, Leonard has gotten over what ever failings his father may have had. Leonard's interactions with Alfred in 9/24 and 10/1 proved that. But Leonard is still estranged with Beverly. Penny gets along nicely with both Leonard's parents, as does Leonard with Penny's parents.

Very true  Hopefully in season 12 there will be some interaction with Penny's parents and Leonard's parents.

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3 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Hopefully in season 12 there will be some interaction with Penny's parents and Leonard's parents

I soooo hope for that as well. But, I I'd love to see some interaction between Wyatt & Alfred or more Alfred/Mary interaction.

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 5:35 AM, bfm said:

He was absent most of the time and did not stop what she was doing. It wasn't hard to know what she was doing, she published it. He may have his reasons, he may have been threatened by her, may have difficulty standing his ground. Still, his behavior enabled the continuation of Beverly's abuse. This was a little bit called out when Leonard talked about his absence in priof seasons but ignored in the re-do episodes, which is kind of understandable given the event. However if they do bring him back I wouldn't like them to completely ignore that and make him father of the year. I think he is also mature enough to apologize to Leonard. They could have a short more dramatic moment of him apologizing in an otherwise comedic episode. They had this with Sheldon and George Jr. and with Sheldon and Mary talking about Geroge Sr. 

What you sat is true, but let's not make this like it's Alfred's fault, because it's not. He was indeed an accomplice by silence but Beverly was the abuser, the perpetrator. If this was real life, in Leonard's position I'd ask Penny not to even talk to Beverly because that would nullify to a certain extent all the suffering Leonard endured. Again, if this was real life, in Leonard's position I wouldn't even talk to Beverly.

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11 minutes ago, Carlos said:

What you sat is true, but let's not make this like it's Alfred's fault, because it's not. He was indeed an accomplice by silence but Beverly was the abuser, the perpetrator. If this was real life, in Leonard's position I'd ask Penny not to even talk to Beverly because that would nullify to a certain extent all the suffering Leonard endured. Again, if this was real life, in Leonard's position I wouldn't even talk to Beverly.

I didn't say it was his fault. 

If this was RL a guy like Leonard may very well still talk to Beverly. She is his mother and that is what he knows. On the show we're shown that he still has the desire to satisfy her. Then again, in RL there are high chances that a guy like Leonard would have been much much more damaged. So let's just be happy it's not RL :)

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13 minutes ago, Carlos said:

What you sat is true, but let's not make this like it's Alfred's fault, because it's not. He was indeed an accomplice by silence but Beverly was the abuser, the perpetrator. If this was real life, in Leonard's position I'd ask Penny not to even talk to Beverly because that would nullify to a certain extent all the suffering Leonard endured. Again, if this was real life, in Leonard's position I wouldn't even talk to Beverly.

I have to agree. Beverly doesn't deserve any kind of relationship with Leonard. All she's ever done is belittle and embarrass him. She's always treated Sheldon better than her own son. Susan and Mary treated Leonard better than his own mother.

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

On the show we're shown that he still has the desire to satisfy her.

I don't see that anymore. I'm beginning to see him getting more and more fed up with Beverly. She hasn't earned the right to be called mother. She may have given birth to Leonard, but that's all the credit she deserves. She only had kids so she could test her theory's on them.

9 minutes ago, bfm said:

I didn't say it was his fault

That's how it came out to my mind. May not have been your intent, but that's what I took from your post.

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52 minutes ago, chucky said:

I have to agree. Beverly doesn't deserve any kind of relationship with Leonard. All she's ever done is belittle and embarrass him. She's always treated Sheldon better than her own son. Susan and Mary treated Leonard better than his own mother.

I don't see that anymore. I'm beginning to see him getting more and more fed up with Beverly. She hasn't earned the right to be called mother. She may have given birth to Leonard, but that's all the credit she deserves. She only had kids so she could test her theory's on them.

That's how it came out to my mind. May not have been your intent, but that's what I took from your post.

I said accomplice by silence, not perpetrator. 

As to Beverly, unfortunately she is his mother and nothing can change that. His book showed very well that this cannot just be erased. And in this very season he called her angry that she said she was proud of Penny and not him so I think it's kind of safe to say he still, understandably, cares.

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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

I said accomplice by silence, not perpetrator. 

As to Beverly, unfortunately she is his mother and nothing can change that. His book showed very well that this cannot just be erased. And in this very season he called her angry that she said she was proud of Penny and not him so I think it's kind of safe to say he still, understandably, cares.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this subject.

On 6/29/2018 at 4:35 AM, bfm said:

Still, his behavior enabled the continuation of Beverly's abuse.

This statement, to me, has you blaming Alfred for the continuation of her abuse on Leonard. She's only Leonard's mother due to her giving birth.

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5 hours ago, bfm said:

I said accomplice by silence, not perpetrator. 

As to Beverly, unfortunately she is his mother and nothing can change that. His book showed very well that this cannot just be erased. And in this very season he called her angry that she said she was proud of Penny and not him so I think it's kind of safe to say he still, understandably, cares.

That's true, but nothing says that he has to care for her. love her , or even have any kind of relationship with her.

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36 minutes ago, Carlos said:

That's true, but nothing says that he has to care for her. love her , or even have any kind of relationship with her.

Nothing says that people have to like sweets, yet most of us do. It may have been easier if he could just erase the part that cares about her but it doesn't work like that. She and his father, absent or present, nice or mean and cruel, are the main people from which he learned about himself and his world.

5 hours ago, chucky said:

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this subject.

This statement, to me, has you blaming Alfred for the continuation of her abuse on Leonard. She's only Leonard's mother due to her giving birth.

Enabling is not causing. He does have respinsibility even if he had the best of reasons, like you would have responsibility for, say, feeding your pet even if you were hospitalized (a far different example but to make it more relatable). That doesn't mean he is a co-perpetrator. That's dynamic of abuse in family. The other parent has responsibility, even when they have the best reasons. This is not the case but sometimes the enabling is percieved by the victim as almost equally hurtful. Again, I'm not talking reasons here.

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